OT: Tigers Open Thread
Tigers finishing off a series with the White Sox this afternoon. They got underway around 1:00, so it's already 2-1 Detroit in the third inning. Tuiasosopo with another home run for the Tigers...he's only played in 3 games in the last couple weeks, but he's homered in each one.
Tigers fans, what (if any) splashes do you think DD will try to make before the trade deadline? I've heard rumors floating around about targeting Garza/Gregg from the Cubs, but I think that would require too steep of a price. I've also heard rumors of Phillies scouts checking out some of our minor leaguers, which could point to a possible deal for Papelbon, but again, I think the price is too high there. I still think we'll try to land a more steady closer. I can't imagine this team heading into the playoffs without a set closer.
White Sox fans (since I know there's a number of you around here: this season is obviously already a wash for you, so what are you looking forward to for next year? Who are some of the exciting young guns in your farm system?
What's the over/under on Adam Dunn strikeouts today?
100. And I'll take the over please.
possibly being suspended is a concern. Who will replace his production? He's been really good this year...I'd think DD might try to hit the trade market for someone to replace Jhonny. Not sure we have that quality SS currently with the Tigers or at AAA Toledo. Might need to look elsewhere.
the way V-Mart is swinging the bat.....V-Mart!
but still need someone at SS and in the six-hole to replace Jhonny's bat. My guess is Santiago gets the gig, but I'd like to see Double-D's make a move.
We all like to see DD's move
I would also like to see that. But DD isn't going to go pick up a quality SS just to fill in for Jhonny while he's suspended. If he decided to foolishly do that, we would be spending way too much money, and then be stuck with two SS's with sizable contracts. Or he could find a cheap SS, but I feel like that's not worth it either with who we have.
2 double plays and an out at home. Yay!
That Jim Bowden proposed trade might be the dumbest thing I've read of his since he left the Reds. I'm probably going to disagree with you and say that they won't be targeting a closer, they'll get bullpen help but I don't think it will necessarily be a closer.
Cheap options for relief help should start in Milwaukee with the likes of Axford, K-Rod, and Badenhop. These 3 guys could be had for the likes of a Daniel Fields, or Tyler Collins from the farm system because I think it would be foolish to part with Avi, Castellanos, or Porcello for relief help. While this team is in, "win now mode" they also shouldn't be in the mortgage the entire future mode because this team has about 2-3 years to win a WS the way they are constructed.
I'm curious to hear some thoughts about what people think will happen to Scherzer in the off-season. If James Shields can net Will Meyers, and Jake Odorizzi then I think it might be wise to ship off Max because it's highly unlikely they lock him up with Jackson, and Cabrera needing extensions.
Max still has a pretty violent throwing motion, but he has been pretty great this year. I guess that's an issue to deal with later, though. It would be interesting to see what each of those guys could bring back.
I say sign Cabrera to a big deal, followed by trading Scherzer and A-Jaxx...we can't keep signing our players to huge contracts, especially when one is untradable. Both A-Jaxx and Max will get you BIG packages of prospects and major league talent. Get major league quality players with some high ceiling prospects...ala Will Myers, and continue to field a team around Cabrera and Verlander.
They should be talking to Jackson right now about an extension, he has so much value as a leadoff hitter and he's arguably one of the best CF's in the game (not having the greatest day today) so they could work on a deal right now and possibly save themselves some money before he goes to arbitration. I think it'd be foolish to trade him away, but that's just my opinion.
I agree...I wouldn't want to trade him, but where will the money come from? Kinda selfish of Tigers fans to think Illich will pick up the bill...We have Verlander, Fielder, and Sanchez under big contracts. Add Cabreras extension, and we may have close to 90-100 million a year in contracts for four players. Ajaxx will probably seek around 15 a year, and Scherzer on the open marker is 18-20 million a year and increasing. I just don't see how this team can win with all high earning players, especially with how baren our farm system is.
I think a Jackson extension could look alot like McCuthen's recent extension which would be wise for Dombrowski to try to get done.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ycn-11071990
If the Tigers made any mistakes with signing outfielders it was going for the big name in Torii Hunter, over the big time player in Michael Bourn. Seriously, Bourn is maybe the best defensive outfielder in baseball, came at a much cheaper price than Hunter, and they could have gotten him for longer years. He is also a terror on the basepaths, and has a solid arm. That is a guy they should have really targeted.
We aren't "sellers" at this point.
The fanbase would go crazy if we sold our starting CF and a SP (who is on some crazy record breaking pace) at the halfway point of a year where we will almost assuredly win the division...
We can do all that later or after the season - which I agree with you. Sell Max.
People are making some excellent points about the Tigers' roster management going forward. For right now though...Phil Coke fucking sucks and so does the rest of this bullpen minus Smyly and Benoit.
Agreed, but we have no assets.
We aren't selling Nick Castellanos and we can't trade one of our major league guys when they are all very valuable or complete shit (Coke).
I'm just not sure what chips we have as "buyers" even though we are very much "buyers."
They have more assets than people know of, there are plenty of high risk/ high upside guys at the lower levels. Daniel Fields, Tyler Collins, Steven Moya are all OF's that fit the bill, a few of them being possible 5 tool prospects that won't make an impact in the next 2-3 years but could explode after that, so they are probably considered expendable by our front office.
I forgot to mention this name in my earlier post about trade targets but Jose Veras could be had for cheap, and these prospects i've mentioned are probably a nice fit for an Astro's team that isn't going to contend until about 3-4 years down the road. As long as the Tigers aren't asking for Bobby Parnell or Glen Perkins they won't have to give up any of their top prospects for bullpen help.
Why do we need a lefties? We were fine last year without a lefty starter, and if they were to acquire Cliff Lee you also want them to re-sign Max? They don't have the money to pay every starting pitcher $15 million, that's how you become what the Phillies are today.
We were great. We won the ALCS. But apparently we weren't good enough. It's all about winning the World Series. Not having lefties obviously isn't the only cause of losing to the Giants, but if we didn't win, we might as well change it up and see what happens.
I would NOT trade Max Scherzer. I would trade Fister instead.
Yes he would net less, but he is not capable of having the type of season Scherzer is having IMO. Scherzer has a legit shot at the CY Young this year.
Don't get me wrong. I think Fister is a solid pitcher, but I like Max much better. Especially with infield defense being an issue. I would much rather have a strikeout guy like Scherzer over a groundball guy like Fister if I had to pick one.
As a Cubs fan this is the most exciting month of the season for me. The Cubs really made a splash in the international free agent market at the start of the month, just another indicator that they're looking well down the road.
Almost everyone on the Cubs is on the trading block including Starlin who has had an incredibly underwhelming season, doesn't really fit into TheoJed's OBP philosophy, and could possibly be had for a nonridiculous price this season.
Gregg most likely can be had for relatively cheap, definitely a lot cheaper than Papelbon, I'm still not convinced he's the real deal though. Garza will be insanely expensive as he is by most accounts the best SP left on the trade block.
Can't see anyone else the Tigers would really want from the Cubs, maybe Darwin Barney if Infante is out for a while, but I'm not sure he's a significant step up from Perez or Santiago. Maybe another lefty in James Russell, as Coke hasn't been that great this season?
I was quite shocked to hear that the Cubs were 50/50 in their decision to possibly extend Garza, I'm going to assume this was Theo telling people we'll keep him if we don't get the offer we want but that seems foolish considering he has more trade value than re-sign value.
They've already made a good move in shipping off Feldman for a high upside guy in Arrieta and gaining international slot money to sign Ho-Tseng, so yes I expect the Cubs to be an above average franchise under Theo in the near future.
I agree with your assessment on Garza that Theo will keep him if he doesn't get the value he wants. I don't think they're anywhere near an extension though, but they will give him a qualifying offer at the end of the year giving them a compensatory pick at the end of the first round, which could be quite valuable. Thus the thinking is, if you don't get trade value greater than that compensatory pick, you hold on to him.
I do like that Feldman/Arrieta trade, but apparently Arrieta had a terrible first outing. I could still see him panning out.
The international slot money is where I think they dropped the ball. From everything I've heard they're going to be >15% over their international pool even if they max out all their trades, above which there is really no additional penalty you can incur. Thus, why are you trading Torreyes for more international slot money? Why did you want Baltimore's international money? On the other hand, if you're trying to stay below 15% over, why are you trading Marmol along with international money? I originally thought they didn't need the additional money they traded to the Dodgers, but that's clearly not the case.
My hypothesis is that either a couple deals fell through as they didn't realize how coveted international money was to other teams, or partway through the signings they realized they were in or more players than they thought and decided to go all in this season and just trade away their international money next year.
Miguel with 94 RBI's now, he's on a quest for 100 before the break, this guy is simply amazing.
The Big Fella does it again! Holy crap man, 30 homers and 94 RBI...he could potentially be at 100 RBI by the All Star Break. Dare we consider the possibility of...200 RBI this year? Absolutely unreal.
All-star break isn't the true half way point of the season. Tigers have already played 91 games with 71 left. That probably puts Cabrera at about 167 RBIs if he maintains pace. Excellent but well short of 200.
"Miguel Cabrera doesn't look real comfortable up there against Sale today." - Rod Allen Two pitches later, opposite-field HR.
— Detroit Sports Site (@DtownSportsSite) July 11, 2013
Well that sucks.
Ugh really Josh Phegly? Leyland might have left in Anibal too long, but these are the problems you have when your bullpen only has 2 reliable arms.
Leyland is obviously gonna try to save them for the last couple innings. So he's really screwed in that spot. In a perfect world he would have pulled Sanchez, but our team is far from that with our horrilbe bullpen
How a team with so many great players is so adept at translating that into as few wins as possible. This team should be 30 games over .500 right now. Arghlebargle.
The Angels?
Actually, there are 4 teams this year with higher payrolls than the Tigers, and only one of those teams (Boston) is doing better than us:
Yankees
- Payroll: $228,106,125
- Wins: 49
Dodgers
- Payroll: $216,753,286
- Wins: 45
Phillies
- Payroll: $159,585,714
- Wins: 45
Red Sox
- Payroll: $154,555,500
- Wins: 56
Tigers
- Payroll: $148,693,600
- Wins: 50
So it's not really true to say that no franchise gets less with more than the Tigers.
Edit: Source for payroll numbers is Cots.
I think most of our money is well spent - we dont' have the highest payroll and we have the best players. It's just that they players somehow manage to apply their baseball excellence in the least efficient way possible for maximizing wins. Happened last regular season, happening this season. Could just be partially bad luck but it drives ya crazy. Hopefully the breaks will go their way in the playoffs again, and then differently in the WS.
"It's just that they players somehow manage to apply their baseball excellence in the least efficient way possible for maximizing wins."
Please, do explain this.
And when explaining do rememer that this team won the AL less than a year ago.
Come on, let this guy have his loony narrative.
record should be better given quality of performance. whether it's bad luck, non clutchiness, or whatever, it's frustrating.
that should be a start.
I wasn't watching when Sale almost hit Fielder, but did the ump warn the benches when that happened? Just surprised that Putkonen got tossed for that. Shouldn't have been more than a warning, imo.
I'm not sure the Sale pitch was intentional but the way people have thrown at the heads of the Tigers over the last week or so has been a bit ridiculous. Leyland certainly had a bit of a beef, especially considering that Putkonen didn't even hit Alexi, let alone even throw at his head. Old time baseball on a Thursday afternoon at Comerica.