#Tigers giving up Jacob Turner plus in deal for A Sanchez and Infante.
— Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) July 23, 2012
OT- Tigers acquire Omar Infante & Anibal Sanchez
I love that trade. Only way it'd be better is if they took Raburn too.
This trade will at least help take the bat out of his hands. I don't mind him as a defensive substitue because our fielding is suspect at times, but dear lord why do they start him?
There must be a kitchen in the clubhouse, because when Raburn goes to the field, he takes a skillet out there instead of a glove.
leyland LOVES raburn.
why, i do not know.
Raburn is the Jesse Pinkman to Leyland's Walter White. I'm convinced. I also think he smuggles tax free Marlboros for Jim on long home stands.
Two worst players in major league history on our team. Leyland thinks there good. They will go 1-4 once a week and then the next day (especially Bumburn) bats 2nd. I still don't know how Don Kelly was drafted, let alone made it to the majors. What's his tool, he sucks at everything!!
OK - but I'd say Raburn is behind Santiago and now Infante in terms of fielding. And he's behind me in terms of hitting and I've never played organized baseball. So he should be gone.
Raburn's behind Charlie Gehringer in terms of fielding, and Charlie died 19 years ago.
Raburn made a nice play on Saturday on the only ball that the Sox hit hard against Porcello, but he's still exceedingly average......and he definitely brings his iron glove out to second base. Thank God that experiment ended a while ago.
I was gonna say, I've seen Rayburn save quite a few runs in close games these last weeks that Delmon Young would've had no chance with. His batting is terrible, but the only reason he's on the team is some of our good batters fielding is even worse...
Raburn's a bad infielder, but I think he's a really solid outfielder, behind only Jackson and Berry, and maybe Dirks.
Sounds like a good trade. Love finally having a full-time 2B!
When I last saw possible trades with the Marlins, we were giving them Turner and Delmon. But take that for what it's worth.
It was just comfirmed on mlb.com. Marlins deal Anibal, Infante for Tigers prospects
The Marlins traded second baseman Omar Infante and starting pitcher Anibal Sanchez to the Tigers for Jacob Turner, Rob Brantly, a 23-year-old catcher who hit .311 in Double-A, and 6-foot-8 left-handed pitcher Brian Flynn, who is 8-4 with a 3.71 ERA at Lakeland, and 0-1 with a 9.00 ERA in one start with Double-A Erie.
Along with the five players involved, the Tigers and Marlins swapped their competitive balance compensation picks between the second and third rounds in next year's First-Year Player Draft.
As a Marlins fan, good for the Tigers. I have always liked Infante as he is a top flight defensive 2nd baseman with a solid bat who tends to be clutch. Sanchez is a good pitcher with the potential to be great, but he is too inconsistant. He will dominate the first couple innings and then just seem to hit a wall in like the 5th or 6th and give up a couple of runs. But he has the stuff to be shutdown, just look at his no-hitter his rookie year. Anibal was also going to be a free agent after this year and the Marlins probably were not going to pay him after the debacle this year with all the underperforming players under big contracts.
Can I please get some insight on who the Marlins are receiving in this deal?
I just posted stats above. Turner is Tiger’s #1 pitching prospect. Signed out of high school a couple of years ago after he dropped in draft because he wanted over-slot money. Big strong right-hander with good speed and control for several good pitches and has progressed well. (Called up for spot starts several times this year.)
Brantly, left handed catcher, has been very strong defensively, swinging a good bat with occasional power & just played in the MLB Futures game. He is blocked by our young catcher. Flynn is solid and has been progressing well (LowA last year, the HighA now AA this year.) since being drafted in seventh round last year.
Nice upgrades, but hopefully Turner doesn't hurt us in the long run. Our last trade with the Marlins worked out nicely.
You know, with the whole Willis thing.
Even with the Willis this it still worked out quite nicely.
given that we got one of the best hitters of the generation in the deal, i'd say its a pretty unequivocal win. especially since the main dudes we gave up (maybin and miller) haven't done shit.
immediately signing him for a 3 years extension was the problem. DD did not have to do that and we could have cut him for nothing. 2 different issues.
Eh, add it to the cost of Cabrera's contract, and we're still coming out ahead. We basically got Cabrera for Burke Badenhop, because that's all Florida's got left.
"The Hopper" is no longer with the Marlins. That deal was all Detroit, as we traded away Maybin and Miller for basically nothing (well two average relievers) after they flamed out.
Give me one of the best hitters of this generation and you can throw in Willis Jackson and I'd sign off on it.
1st draft pick deal:A Sanchez, Infante and comp balance pick for Jacob Turner, Rob Brantly, , Brian Flynn and Det. comp pick. Fascinating
— Peter Gammons (@pgammo) July 23, 2012
What is a "comp balance pick"?
Something new this year. The Tigers basically won a "small market lottery", and were awarded a comp pick as a result. This pick is able to be traded, while normal picks are not.
I don't know how much that helped...
OK. So are these extra picks in the regular draft, or is this a totally different draft like Rule V?
Yes, those were extra picks in the entry draft. Not Rule V or anything else.
BTW, how did the Tigers qualify for that? They don't seem like a small-market team.
Details are here, from the Detroit News last week:
It seems odd that the Tigers would be considered one of the 10 smallest market teams when the Detroit TV market has over 5 million people and the state of Michigan (which almost unanimously roots for the Tigers) has 10 million. Not to mention that the Tigers have one of the highest payrolls in baseball. I won't complain about a free draft pick, though.
Said to be Turner, Brantly, and the compensatory pick they got last week. Expensive but if they can resign Anibal then it's a good trade z
Peter Gammons @pgammo
1st draft pick deal:A Sanchez, Infante and comp balance pick for Jacob Turner, Rob Brantly, , Brian Flynn and Det. comp pick. Fascinating
agreed with folks so far - seems to be a good trade for the present, if we can get sanchez signed long term.
keeping castellanos is huge.
Even if we can't, I'm down with it. Getting a solid 2B and half a year from a good starting pitcher is worth it for a guy who has struggled to get out of our farm system.
I'm surprised we didn't try to deal someone from the outfield though. What happens in a year when Castellanos is ready to come up and Dirks is healthy, but we still have Delmon, AJax and QB? Can't have one DH since that will likely be VMart.
Turner is only 21 still. I wouldn't say he's struggled to get out of our farm system so much as he has moved through it relatively quickly.
Turner's young, but as a "hot prospect" he was expected to be in our rotation this year, not a guy who comes up from AAA when a guy gets hurt just to get shelled. I know he pitched well against the White Sox (until the 6th when things got shaky) and the Cards earlier but he got absolutely rocked against the Angels.
I'm not saying he should be a Cy Young candidate at this point, but Porcello was a full season starter as a 20 year old and did far better, and Smyly's only 23 and pitching much better.
It's not like Turner has floundered around for years, but he hasn't exactly shown a ton of promise either, and his stats in 3 starts are actually a little worse than the 3 starts he had last year, which isn't what you want to see from a guy his age.
Verlander wasn't exactly a world-beater through his first few outings:
I dont at all think that Turner will come near JV's career success, but he is really young and has a lot of time to develop.
We won't have Delmon. He's a free agent after this season, and we sure as hell aren't re-signing him. At least I hope not...
if youre talking abt this year...
castellanos wont be rushed this year. jax is not going anywhere from CF. vmart is a maybe to even play. Q will probably end up as a defensive replacement/pinch hitter/runner once he cools off (cuz honestly, as much as i love Q, i dont see how this lasts the rest of the season). so we'll have two OF spots for delmon, dirks, and boesch, which i'll leave to jimmy L to work out. and if vmart doesnt come back, then delmon to DH, with some combo of Q, dirks, and boesch out there.
now next year is a different issue.
Dirks started his rehab assignment last night in Toledo (I was there). From what I've read, it's going to be a little bit before he gets back.
Berry may keep this up the rest of this season, but I don't see it lasting into next.
Castellanos will probably not arrive until September, when the rosters expand.
Almost no chance they want to pay him to be replacement level
Especially playing outfield. He's never played it before, and half a year of playing it in the minors does not a major league ready outfielder make.
He's 20, he needs to put some weight on, and he isn't close to being MLB ready defensivly. Still a hell of a prospect, I've seen a few people out there say he could have a Hosmer like impact in 2 or 3 years, but not next. He will get called up in september, get a cup of coffee, be really hyped up in spring next year, but spend most of the year in the minors again.
Can anyone tell me who Brantley and Flynn are and if I should care that they're gone?
Brantly is out top catching prospect, he's in Toledo right now and is cut from the same mold as Avila. Solid defense with some extra base power, but since Avila is still young and we have another catching prospect he was expendable.
Brantly is a B+ catching prospect. Blocked by Avila though. Not sure about Flynn.
Brantley was a lefty catcher that was in Toledo. Coincidentally, I saw him play last night in Toledo. He was in the Futures Game a couple weeks ago. He got to AAA in a hurry, but he was blocked by Avila, and by James McCann behind him in AA-Erie.
Can't tell you much about Flynn.
We also have one Patrick Leyland to add C depth in the farm system!
Just promoted to triple A this year after putting up solid numbers in AA. He has cooled off a bit there, but still seems to have some potential. Flynn is a pitcher i had never heard of but was in AA erie.
Flynn's a BIG lefty. OK ERA, decent K numbers. A solid prospect, but still a 22 year old pitcher with one start above A ball. Decent prospect, but nothing that you can't replace in next year's draft.
BIG is the word, he’s like 6’8”, 240lbs. He was our 2011 seventh round (#6) draft choice from Wichita St. Has climbed well through the minors but was just roughed up pretty bad after his 1st start at AA Erie.
All that just for Turner? Sign me up.
There has to be another move here. We've got 2 coming onto our MLB roster (Sanchez & Infante), and only one leaving (Turner).
We can only hope.
Either Raburn DFA'd or Worth goes back to Toledo. Maybe even Don Kelly DFA'd but that seems unlikely.
Adding another Inf lets Raburn stay i bet.
The Yankees have acquired Ichiro Suzuki for RHPs DJ Mitchell and Danny Fahrquar, a source said. Yanks also get undisclosed cash in deal.
— Jack Curry (@JackCurryYES) July 23, 2012
Random, but since this is a trade thread I thought I'd throw this here.
Is this real?
Just sent out a mobile update saying it is.
Kind of funny that the Yankees, of all teams, get cash as part of the deal.
What do you think Gammons means when he ends with " fascinating"?
but i bet it is the swapping of the compensation picks. New thing to trade picks. Apparently the tigers pick is moving up about 36 spots as they are moving to the picks after round 1 while thier old one was in the picks after round 2.
Probably that it's the first trade in MLB history involving draft picks. Absolutely insane rule forbids trading them, except for these new "competitive balance" ones.
i kinda like the no trading rule. it forces all teams to put talent and effort into scouting and drafting, unlike, say, the nba, where the big guys can buy off players for picks.
I think the dynamic in the NBA is totally different though....there's no developmental system for prospects, at least, not at the magnitude of baseball. I don't think you'd see good teams constantly buying good players with draft picks, for two reasons. One, lousy teams would still rather have prospects, because draft picks are still years away from contributing - unlike the NBA where you can get yourself a competitive team within a couple years. Two, a team that gave up a whole bunch of picks would have a hard time stocking their system. Plus, baseball teams would still have to invest heavily in scouting, because they have 50 picks to make instead of two.
I've always been fascinated by the fact that there are so many rounds in the MLB Draft. It seems like at some point it must become a total crapshoot. What are the odds of a 40th-round pick making the bigs? A 50th-rounder?
God I needed this today...
i don't think Infante is a good get, he's getting old and theres much better 2nd basemen we could have gotten
Infante will be 31 in December, and no, there weren't, at least none that will cost less than an arm and a leg.
Infante is a good get for what we gave up. Yes there are better second basemen out there, but the if they are available, the price would be through the roof.
I disagree. The 2B market is woefully thin unless you want to pay out of the nose for Darwin Barney. Infante is good to hit .270 with a little pop (just as much as Raburn) and a substantial defensive upgrade. Plus he is under a reasonable contract. The Tigers will have him for 1.5 years for 4 mill a year.
I think Raburn is going to get the Inge treatment. They might delay it a bit by sending Worth to Toledo, but it's coming. They can't wait on his bat forever, especially when he is a defensive liability.
This was a win now trade and I like it. As lauded as Turner was, the polish on his prospect accolades was starting to fade and his trade value was starting to go with it. Sanchez is an excellent piece for a very strong rotation. Bumping Smyly to Toledo for more seasoning is a great move and we know we have a reliable No. 6 in case of injury.
I like the trade if DD resigns Sanchez for 3-4 years. If they let him walk, it will be disappointing
Nice trade. The Tigers filled a position of desperate need and picked up another pitcher while only giving up one of our top prospects. It's nice only having to give up Turner and not Castellanos. It is tough to let Turner go though. He definitely has a ton of potential. Good luck to him, and welcome back Omar!
I think the team proved that it is good enough to take the division over the weekend. Why give up the best pitching prospect in the farm for a rental player who may beat out Porcello for the fourth spot in the rotation? Does Sanchez close the gap between the Tigers and Rangers? I am ok giving up Brantley et al for Infante, at least Infante is signed up for next year as well.
With all of the shitty news we've gotten today, this has taken the edge off. This could be the bump that will get the Tigers the AL Central.
I like this trade - Omar is definitely an upgrade at second base (I liked Omar when he was here several years ago - he could get on base, had a great OPS and was reliable in the field) and we get a serviceable starter (110 K against 33 BB, 3.94 ERA and 3.94 ERA this year, and he's been healthy for a few years, pitching almost 200 innings a year for a couple years now), which are two things we definitely will need as we head towards August and September. For Turner, this is a pretty good deal for us, I believe.
I always wondered about your avatar and last week Howard Stern started talking about Brony Con, which is for people who have a fascination (staying pc here) with My Little Pony. I had no idea about anything My Little Pony related until now. So I was wondering if you were a Brony.
For various reasons, I don't reference the show much beyond my avatar (although I have used various MLP memes on this site in the past), but the answer to your question is affirmative - I am indeed.
Even Comic Con has a panel now-
Good deal. Now the Tigers should trade Porcello, Smyly and Delmon Young for Clayton Kershaw; Need a proven lefty in the rotation
What is Kershaw's contract? FWIW, I would like to bring Hamels in for those 3 pieces. Even though his contract is up this after this year.
I'll give up a bag of balls for those three guys, but not much more. You realize Kershaw is one of the best young pitchers in the game right? It'll take more than two low-level pitchers and Delmon freaking Young to get someone like Kershaw.
Not sure if serious.
If serious, we should also throw in Raburn and see if they'll include Matt Kemp.
Throw in McCarty and Draper and we'll get a 1st round pick as well.
/old Red Wing trade deadline rumors
If Raburn for Kemp doesn't work out I would settle for Mike Trout.
You forgot your /metsfan tag.
You'd have to give up Castellanos, Porcello, Boesch probably if not more
Turner wasn't going to be consistent enough to help us this year. Infante is a nice 2B and is even signed thru next season. Sanchez is a nice pitcher that hopefully we can extend, barring a meltdown.
This is a great move. GREAT. Annibal Sanchez is pretty inconsistent, but if he gets hot he ranks right up there with Scherzer/Fister when they are on.
Thanks to a 4 game losing streak by the Yankees, the Tigers are only 4.5 IIRC back of first place in the AL. They are the hottest team in the league (along w/ Oakland) and are lining up a deep playoff run. This is going to be fun.
Now the question is corner outfielders. Will the Boesch resurgence continue? Can Q keep playing above his head? Will Dirks come back to provide some much, much needed depth in the outfield? Do you DFA Raburn (please) and keep Kelly as the ultimate utility guy?
The answer to all your questions is yes.
We can only hope.
Someone tell Cabby to get working on Sanchez's extension.
Dirks, QB, Kelly, Boesch all lefties. Not ideal and may help Raburn remain a fixture in Leyland's plans. Worth is probably going back to Toledo.
Tell any of those guys to turn around and hit right handed and I bet they do better than Raburn.
As another astute poster (who also posts here, I just haven't seen him here yet today) said on another board , the Tigers are at 41 men on their 40-man roster. It's going to take more than a trip to Toledo for Worth. That sets our 25 man, but not our 40-man roster. Someone is going to have to be DFA'd.
Welp if it's Raburn, it will only add more melancholy to an already gloomy sports day. At least Raburn will be able to report to any team and play immediately, without having to sit out a year, or he can choose to remain a Tiger and collect his tuition
Anibal Sanchez has a no-hitter on his resume. Granted, Phil Humber has a perfect game and the Tigers rocked him, but the kid has great stuff. I think his ceiling and Turner's are close enough that this works out great
I love this trade.
Sanchez has 14 quality starts in 19 starts this year, and 110 Ks. He's have a much better record except he's had a lot of solid games with no run support. 4 or 5 of his losses are legit, but he should probably be a 9-7 pitcher right now, and probably better than that with the Tigers' bats behind him.
It seems a lot like the Pfister deal last year. Solid pitcher on a bad team with little run support. Man, if Sanchez works out for us like Doug did last year.........
Weird, I always thought of Santiago and Infante as basically two copies of the same player when they were first with the team, and now they're both on their second go-around.
Back around when the Tigers were playing chicken with a 60-win season Santiago and Infante were thought to be the next Tram and Lou. Who would have thought a decade later they'd be back together on the same Detroit roster.
(Though w/o checking I'm pretty sure Santiago has been a Tiger the entire time)
Santiago was the major piece in our trade for Carlos Guillen (LOL SEATTLE) and they cut him after about a year and a half and we snapped him back up. In fact, Infante's first spin with the Tigers was long enough that he was still here when we got Santiago back.
Santiago played for Mariners in '04' & 05
They're similar, but Omar can hit at a good chunk higher average than Ramon. At least he can in the NL.
And even if they are the same, I'd rather have two Santiagos than a Santiago and a Raburn.
Worked with both Flynn and Brantley last year in west Michigan. Both were great guys to be around and a lot of fun. I am sad they gave up Brantley after being so young in aa and aaa this year, but I understand the deal.
Venezuela has been good for the Tigers and the Tigers have been good for Venezuela. Tigers already have 5 Venezuelan's on the 40 man roster. Sanchez and Infante make 7 and Victor Martinez possibly 8. Hopefully Sanchez enjoys a WS championship and decides to stay on for the long haul.
The Tigers have also had Venezuelan's, Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Guillen, and Freddy Garcia on the team recently
That was such a good move to get rid of turner right now. I really don't see him becoming an elite starter. I doubt that one will come back to haunt us.
Turner is just like Porcello. Serviceable back end starter. The trade works...turner and Brantly are based on potential. Remember Andrew Miller & Cameron Maybin? Ya, people said Cabby wasn't worth those guys...
Brantly wouldnt have ever seen the field behind Avila...I'm not a huge Avila guy, but with his dad in the organization...he's not going anywhere and will be given ever chance to succeed (probably even more so than Rayburn & Inge, but hopefully it never gets to that). Also, Turner was always trade bait. He's been involved in trade talks for a few years now.
I hate the 'he's so young' excuse. He's young but he's definately not a verlander.
Sanchez is a solid change of pace starter in the back of the rotation. I would much rather have Sanchez than a rookie in the rotation.
But keep in mind...all you need is 3 starters in the playoffs. I have a feeling JV, Fister, and Scherzer/Porcello will work well.
Infante is a good player that can play 2B, SS, or outfield if needed. His OPS is 250 pts higher than any 2B on our team! Goodbye Ratburn? I can only hope.
We traded 'potential' for proven players.
I'll do that everyday.
I hope we didn't trade our best prospect for a "solid change of pace starter at the back of the rotation." Sanchez has a sub-4 ERA, solid WHIP, and he's doing it with fielding that is (at best) no better than the Tigers' fielding. He's top-20 in baseball in defense-independent ERA. At worst, Sanchez should be challenging and beating Porcello as the 4th starter, and truth is, you ought to be able to throw him right into the mix with Scherzer and Fister, he should be every bit as good as any pitcher on the roster not named Verlander. (Although, Scherzer at his best is probably better than Sanchez at his best.)
Just cuz keith law says someone is our top prospect doesn't mean he's a cant miss guy. Castellanos is our top prospect. No question. Pitchers are a dime a dozen.
To me, Turner is 'potential'. But he has a huge chance of being Andrew Miller. Sanchez has top 20 pitcher in MLB stuff when he's on. I'm thinking he will pan out to be 3 or 4 in our rotation.
Turner will never be a top end rotation guy. Especially with the tigers. He needs defense, he's a low ball pitcher. Sanchez is a totally different type of pitcher than turner.
OK, lineup question: What do you do with Infante? #2 hitter, as a guy with more pop than Q Berry? (And presumably a better bunter, as Berry's bunting has been atrocious.) And then maybe bat Berry 9th to set the table for Austin Jackson? Like this:
Or maybe don't mess with a good thing, and switch Infante and Berry and bat Infante ninth?
I like Dirks in the 2 hole when he comes back. I can see Infante batting 9th at that point.
So are you benching Q or Boesch?
This is an interesting question and I'll be very interested to see what the Skip does. Some tough research shows that Infante has a total of 10 SB this year and he has hit in just about every spot in the lineup. So I think there's two philosophies:
1. Bat Berry 9th as a "second lead-off man."
2. Bat Berry 2nd since he's got a hot bat.
I'm leaning towards option A. WIth as great as AJax has been, him being on base neutralizes Berry's speed. A lot of fans won't see that and would balk at moving Berry down. But since you've now got a legit 2 hitter, it's great to move him down where he'll A: have pressure taken off of him, B: still have protection with AJax behind him, C: is more likely to have clear base paths ahead of him.
That's suddenly a very complete lineup. Though, now that I write it out I realize that leaves us a 7-8-9 of all lefties. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see Leyland swap Q and Infante. Or you swap Avila and Peralta. Or you move Boesch up and Peralta and Avila down. I think I like the later option.
Sanchez is a rental (presumably), or at least the Marlins weren't re-signing him, so this seems like a reasonable deal from the Marlins standpoint, and it's been pretty obvious that the Tigers are all-in on winning this year or the next. You knew they were going to do something.
But I do want to note that it's pants-on-head retarded that the Tigers, with the 5th highest payroll in baseball and being in the 11th largest TV market (and of the markets in front of them, 4 of the 10 have two teams in the market), were even eligible for a "competitve balance draft", let alone got a pick that they were immediately able to use in a trade.