Why bitch when you could simply not read conference expansion topics?
OT: texas to join pac 12.
I don't hate expansion. I hate reading stuff from people that don't know anything about expansion.
If we added ND, there may not be too many who are stellar football schools, but possibilities:
Virginia or Virginia Tech.
Boston College would be an interesting addition to have a rival Catholic school to ND.
UNC or Duke would be an interesting addition, but no way would we be able to grab one without the other.
Maryland might be another possibility.
Rutgers or Baylor are the only others that I could really imagine, strictly from an academic perspective.
Wow, what a controversial idea, I can't believe you would say that ;)
To your point, I don't think any ACC team is available. The conference just voted to raise the buyout, and now with the additions of SU/Pitt/UConn?/Rutgers?, the schools in that conference seem content to stay in a spot where they are comfortable and guaranteed to have a safe place in the Brave New World of conferences.
BC would be interesting as they are already an outlier in the ACC, would be a rival if we add Notre Dame, and would add tons of value to the Big Ten Hockey Conference. I'm not sure if the cultural and academic fit is that strong though, and they don't really add much of a football history.
reaching out to Syracuse and PITT, and likely means someones are leaving the ACC.
It means they created additional stability by adding overall revenue and probably assured that FSU doesn't leave, which was the only school considering leaving anyway.
Penn State and Nebraska have been significant additions to the conference. It doesn't appear that there are 4 schools out there that would add enough in academics, athletics, and tv markets that also are a decent geographic/cultural fit.
I think ND, Missouri, and Pittsburgh would all be decent additions. I would add Missouri if ND is forced to join a conference and settle at 14. Texas, Oklahoma, and Pitt all seem to be off the table now and some combination of Kansas, Rutgers, Iowa State, Maryland, etc does not seem worth moving up to 16.
Lakes: Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame
Plains: Northwestern, Illinois, Missouri, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska
Your plains division would be horrible.
Historically yes, these are uneven, but ND is nowhere near an elite program right now, Penn State and Ohio State are both at turning points for the future as the next coaching hire at each school will be VERY important to correcting recent problems. Michigan's recent struggles are obvious although we all like to believe we are back on the upswing. Michigan State has gotten more consistent under Dantonio but remains a second tier program without much respect nationally. Indiana and Purdue are doormats until they are able to prove otherwise.
In the other division, Wisconsin seems primed to become one of the B1G's elite programs year-in-year-out. Nebraska is returning to national relevance under Pelini, and we'll know a lot more about the Huskers after their first year in the B1G. Iowa is pretty stable as a 7-10 win team under Ferentz. Missouri has won 10 games three of past four years and has been a NFL QB factory and solid program under Pinkel. Northwestern is interesting and has proven to be a tough out under Fitzgerald. Illinois is an up-and-down program capable of the occasional title team. Minnesota is a doormat until they prove otherwise.
On brand names alone these divisions seemed very unbalanced, but in actuality I would disagree. Take your Leaders and Legends, I'll take my Lakes and Plains.
2 of those plains division teams will probably end up playing each other for the Big Ten championship in it's inaugural year.
the B1G would have legit interest in, the options are pretty small. I think the fact that PITT appears headed to the ACC is also indicative of ACC knowledge that something is awry in ACC country -- meaning a current member or two may be headed to the B1G.
Of the schools B1G might consider (in probable order): 1 and 1A Texas/ND, 3. Virginia. 4. Maryland. 5. Georgia Tech 6. Boston College 7. Mizzou. All save Georgia Tech and Texas are geographically sound choices (particularly if Maryland and Virginia became members at same time). All of these schools would fit academically, unlike some other basement dwelling academic schools like Oklahoma, OKState, Kentucky and so on.
If expansion is going to happen for B1G right now, it's probably b/c ND is on board. I do think that the B1G is probably (albeit quietly) leading the recent rumors by talks with ND, Texas and some ACC schools, which is causing ripple effects in ACC adding PITT and 'Cuse.
I look for B1G to add a combination of ND up to three others in the next 6-8 months. Clearly UT is desireable, and it would probably like to join, if "doable" with ESPN's tv package. ESPN probably calls the decision there. If UT joins, would B1G invite Mizzou to head closer to UT geographically and add the KC/St Louis market or would it head east to the DC/NY markets? Frankly, I don't see Rutgers, UConn etc. as viable candidates over the other schools listed.
My vote: ND, TX, Virginia, and Vandy. More likely: ND, TX, Maryland, BC.
the ACC just added a $20 million buyout clause.
Good point, but 20M is not that big a deal considering the difference in revenue. Also, I wonder whether that's in effect yet, or has been proposed as a method to stop any of the new teams from bolting . . .
It's in effect immediately as far as I know. It won't stop people from thinking the ACC can be raided, but I'm willing to bet nobody's going anywhere.
I know. They say they are not going anywhere. But look the situation they are getting into here. The Big East, where they play all other sports is in trouble. With Pitt and Syracuse gone they are down to 6 teams for football. The SEC is going to add another team to balance adding A&M. West Virginia is very a strong possibility there. It sounds like uconn is desperate to get in the ACC (one wonders if Rutgers goes with uconn to get the ACC to 16, unless we take them.) The Big East is dead as a football conference and damaged severely from a basketball perspective. They will no longer have a BSC auto bid unless they can somehow add 4 or more teams.
Also, it looks like the Big 12 is dead with Baylor, K-State, Kansas, Iowa State and Missouri left hanging. Their BSC auto bid also looks gone. I am almost assuming that we will add Missouri at this point and therefore need another team to get to 14.
So it looks like we will have the SEC, ACC, Pac 12 and maybe the Big 10 with more than 12 teams. All these conferences are going to go to 9 game conference schedules. Do the teams in these conferences really want to play Notre Dame every year along with their 9 game conference schedule? I don’t think we know the answer to this but I assume Notre Dame must be worried about it.
If we look at Notre Dame’s schedule they have the following teams soon to be part of mega-conferences:
- Michigan State
- Wake Forest
- Boston College
That is 9 of 12. Several of these teams are going to see their TV money go up. Additionally their main goal has to be to get to their conference championship game. Why play Notre Dame? It does not really help you. If even half these teams come to this conclusion it does not take much for Notre Dame to have difficulty filling out a decent schedule that does not include conference USA and the mountain west.
It also seems like any of these super conferences are more interesting to NBC in the long run than continuing the Notre Dame Deal. You also have to wonder why the super conferences, which will control that BCS, have any interest in a tie in for Notre Dame.
On top of all this the current home for all of Notre Dames other sports is unstable at best. With all this going on can Notre Dame really just put their head in the sand and stay independent?
Let's see it actually happen before we all jump off the cliff. Texas is a major prima-donna, and going to the Pac-16 means they will have to deal with "big" programs like USC and Oregon as well, who won't feel the need to cow-tow to UT's demands like most of the Big 12 teams.
This just in...
Not wanting to join TCU in the Big East, Air Force will apply to the B1G.
USAFA's academics are solid, it will be another hockey team for the new B1G conference (and LAX too once Illinois and Moo U. get off their asses and go D1).
Travel isn't a problem as the athletic department htiches rides on "training missions".
With a shit ton of alum in the area and tons of midwest expats now calling the Front Range home, this would paint a big swath of maize and blue (and other school's colors which I really don't care about anyway) up and down the middle of the country for the B1G Network.
I'm still waiting for BSU and BYU to join the Pac-whatever. They are an obvious geographical fit. ND to the B1G should be done soon. I'm still trying to figure out who the other teams will be. Kansas, KSU, ISU, and Mizzou are a pretty nice smorgasboard from which to choose.
It's great asking elite teams and all that, but a conference has to have a balance of elite teams and tomato cans for an optimal chance at winning the National Championship. At least, if playoffs are done with conference champions, someone will make it out of even the toughest conference.
That BYU was rejected along with Baylor last year because the Pac 12, mainly Stanford, Cal, and Washington, does not want to have a religiously affiliated university or something.
it has nothing to do with being elite or being in the right region. Boise and BYU play in the middle of nowhere.
One thing I don't understand about these 16-team conferences is how this affects football schedules. If you have two eight team divisions, a team will probably play nine conference games. That gives you seven games in a round robin format with two games to play teams in the other division. If one of those games is a protected rivaly, you end up playing the other schools from that division once every seven years at best. That just makes no sense to me.
I'd tell teams that they get to protect up to four rivalry games (if there exists four rivals that agree) and that they have the freedom to schedule the other six games as they wish, provided they play each conference team at least once every three years. This would give the maxed out rival teams fifteen games to play twelve teams in that time frame.
We would get to play OSU, ND, MSU, and Minnesota every year.
MSU would get to play us, ND, Indiana, and Penn State every year.
OSU would play us, Illinois, and Penn State.
Notre Dame would play us, Michigan State, and Purdue every year. Perhaps a fourth rival would emerge.
The Pac-16 proposal is:
4 pods of 4 teams with 9 conference games
Texas plays every team in pod A and then 2 teams from each of pod B, C and D.
No word on how a champion would be determined, though the "2 BCS/playoff spots" theory would suggest that the champions pods A and B, for example, would play off for one spot while the champions of C and D play off for the other.
For the proposed Pac-16, the breakdown would be simple.
I would love to see boston college,syracuse, mizzou, and ND.BC would add a powerhouse hockey program, decent northern smashmouth style football that would better fit the big ten than ACC and the Boston/New England market .Syracuse adds powerhouse basketball and lacrosse (which is rapidly growing and may be significant in the future), meh football but the NY tv market somewhat (i live in ny).Mizzou adds football and st louis.ND adds football, great basketball, powerhouse hockey, and powerhouse lacrosse.Also creates rival with BC and an often overlooked fact, the NY TV MARKET.ND has a huge population in NY called the "subway alumni" and them and syracuse would certainly capture the NY market and even though NY is a "pro Sports" town, syracuse and ND jerseys are seen everywhere on gameday (no rutgers jerseys thats just BS if people say that).Lastly, adding all these schools would be geographically continous with NY bordering Pa and Mass bordering NY.
If Texas and three other schools go to the Pac-Something, I'll tell you what makes way too much sense as a next step: the remaining Big 12 schools merge with the Mountain West and pick up TCU to make a 16-team conference. The math works perfectly since as of now the MWC is scheduled to be a 10-team conference next year minus TCU. Add the five Big 12 leftovers to the MWC and have them retain TCU since the Big East no longer makes any sense as a football destination, and you have a conference that can hang on to BCS affiliation. The MWC schools ought to be delighted about a merger like that since obtaining BCS affiliation has been their singular purpose for a while now.
ACC buyout (which they voted for) is now $20 million and their true rival is now with them in-conference. Yeah, BC is going nowhere.
The linked blog gives some explanation for why the PAC 10 is going after Big 12 teams:
anybody? Atlanta and GA have many disgrunted SEC and ACC fans. Good school in a big market I would like to see get killed in BIG 10 play in perpetua and loosen vice grip of SEC on the south with respect to recruiting and brand. See also Florida State.