I know Tim Tebow is in the "I am so good that people hate me for it" category but he keeps impressing me not only on the field but as a young man. Check out this story about who he escorted on the red carpet for the awards ceremony last night.
OT - Tebow's Legend Grows
That was a great move. He is a good person, no doubt about it.
Now, back to him as a football player. This is the most amazing thing I have ever seen.
I have to question whether he was the one who was doing it or if he was told by the producers that it would be good publicity?
But Yes Tebow I think is a genuinely great person but I also think that he wouldn't do half of the things he does if he wasn't told to by others because it would be a "good idea".
Does it matter whose idea it is for him to do these good deeds? We don't see other college football players doing them.
What a great thing to do and opportunity to give her. I'm sure the distraction and excitement of getting to go to the show with him has brightened her life and given her some extra energy to fight her battle.
This kid honestly has to be one of the great players to play college on and off the field. It's too bad the MSM has overexposed and inundated us with hyperbole to the point that college fans have backlashed against it. Unfortunately the backlash has manifested in people booing him and making fun of his faith. I'm guilty of it, and I am starting to regret taking part.
the hype is off-putting; but who wouldn't want TT taking snaps for their team?
I'll go ahead and say every NFL coach other than Jack Del Rio, and that's because his owner will force it on him to sell tickets.
I was thinking college teams, but I didn't make that clear. I agree, TT will struggle in the NFL. Insufficient arm strength to stretch defense; big target for DEs and LBs.
Brian Griese taking a girl in a wheelchair to her prom? Or something like it?
Please. Our Tim has shown a gift for getting good publicity, but don't pretend you have any idea whether he is a good person or not. You are not close enough to see. Everybody thought Tiger was a pretty good guy, too. Turns out that that is not exactly the case.
I do know that if anyone on my football teams had written biblical verses on his eye black, we would have thought he was a sanctimonious ass.
I also know that the Tebow worship on ESPN is so out of hand, that I am required to hate him, just to bring balance to the force.
It's too bad your football teams would have been so disdainful of somebody with strong beliefs.
We had plenty of people that wore crosses around their necks and a few other things but eye black, I'd contend, is 100% for the look. I'm more of a "faith is for yourself" type of person so I've never been a huge fan of "showy" Christians in the first place.
One of my sisters is one of them so it's not like I'm just annoyed with celebrities. To me, at least, it's a private thing and putting it on your eye black just seems too much like commercialization to me.
Also, FWIW, there was never anything but respect for those that wore crosses or did other things that expressed their faith.
That's a startlingly arbitrary standard for expression of faith. Writing Biblical references on eye black isn't isn't that different from wearing a cross.
I appreciate that you think faith is a private matter, but for those of us who take it seriously as a significant part of our identities, it's as strange to suggest that we should keep it quiet and private as it would be for me to tell serious Michigan fans to keep their college allegiance quiet. I've never been one to function as a gaudy billboard of faith -- I don't do the Christian t-shirt or bumper sticker thing -- but my faith is a crucial part of who I am, so it's only natural that its expressions will follow me in my public life. Maybe that expression is writing on my eye black (or would have been, if I'd ever had any fraction of athletic ability...), or maybe it's a small tattoo, or maybe it's a cross necklace. In any case...what harm do those forms of expression do?
Wearing a cross is exponentially different than writing verses on your eye black. I wear a cross because it's for me, it's a reminder of my faith, what I believe. I don't need, or feel the need, to have every person who looks at my face bombarded w/ a bible verse. If you ask me about my faith or if you ask me some kind of question that I feel needs a reference to God I'll give it but, like I said, I'm a "faith is a personal thing" kind of person so I guess I'll just agree to disagree. You don't think it is, I do, regardless we still have the same faith and believe (roughly) the same things (roughly pointed out for the gargantuan amount of differing establishments you can go to practice your faith).
Also, I take offense to the implication that I don't take my faith as a significant part of my identity just because I wouldn't go sporting eye black w/ bible verses on it.
As far as harm, it probably has an equal balance. People who might have come to God because of what verse Tebow wrote on his eye black and people who might be teetering on the edge but get annoyed at his showiness. In the end I suppose it's a good thing if it helps at least 1 person to find their way.
Wasn't trying to call you out - that's just my opinion on the matter - not a fan of the eye black.
why can't more threads, that involve different opinions, have the same civility that you and Sgt are having? Just wondering.
I agree with mostly what you are saying, but it might be good to look at it from another angle. I'm sure you already know this but...If you believe in God, then you also believe that he has a plan for your life. If Tim Tebow is who he seems to be, which is a man of faith, then it is not hard to believe that what he is doing with the eye black and his public football career is his calling.
There are some that think that everything we do is already known and scripted in God's eye and others that believe that He gives us choices and the free will to do with His gifts what we want. Obviously He hopes we don't go around being awful sinners who forsake Him so I guess it comes down to free will. I think Tebow is doing this out of his free will rather than God coming to him in a dream and saying "put this verse on your eye black." And there's nothing wrong with that, he's not a bad person for wanting to do that but you guys know my view on the subject at this point. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time a Christian disagreed with another Christian on how best to demonstrate their faith :)
I guess that we will never know if Tim Tebow is acting out of his own free will or if he truly had a calling. That is between God and Tebow and speculating will do us no good. I largely share the same view that you have stated in previous posts. The true beauty is that how you demonstrate you faith is ultimately the relationship between you and God.
I think God can have a plan for my life but also give me free will. He has granted me certain abilities (although none athletic) and would hope I would use those God-given abilities to glorify Him and not myself. I do, however, have the choice to be selfish or use my gifts for other reasons. So I think you are both correct.
Yikes. I DEFINITELY didn't intend to imply that you don't consider your faith a significant part of your identity. I apologize -- I should have expressed my thoughts differently.
I guess my view is that specific expressions of faith are as much tied to personality as anything else. It sounds like my personality is actually closer to yours: I don't typically adorn myself with symbols of my faith. But if somebody is wired such that they prefer to display their faith, I'm not going to oppose that as long as it's reasonably tasteful and tactful (and as long they aren't living lives that contradict their faith). If Tebow were the only one putting messages on his eye black, it could be considered tactless; however, since that's a common practice for football players these days, I don't think it's outside the bounds of good taste.
All that said, this isn't a firm matter of doctrine and you have good reasons for holding your opinion, so you're right: we don't need to agree. I just wanted to spell out my thoughts a little more. (Also, I didn't want my last post to be the one in which I unintentionally questioned your faith.)
Words are funny things sometimes - you obviously didn't mean it the way I read it. Glad to see you didn't mean it the way I thought you did!
I guess it's more because I think the eye black thing in general is tacky ;)
Words+The Internet=Trouble with a capital T. Sometimes I think I should stop talking on the internet, but...it's just so tempting! But, you know, I can quit anytime I want. Really.
I respect people's right believe whatever they want to, as well as speak about or show their faith in whatever manner they like. I happen not to believe in God and believe that although there are many positive aspects about organized religions, they are not based on the truth (as evident by science, logic, etc.).
I think Tebow does many great and admirable things. I hope that he's doing them because he thinks it's good for humanity, not because the Bible tells him to. I think that maybe some of the backlash against Tebow is because there are a lot of people who think religion is on the whole a bad thing.
(Let the negbang begin!)
That you should point out science and logic. By definition the meaning of faith is belief in something for which there is no scientific proof. It is this aspect of faith that 1) makes it hard to believe for some and 2) makes it hard to talk people out of once they believe it.
If you asked me to scientifically prove God exists I wouldn't have anything to point you to, and I realize that but faith itself is, as I said, the belief in something for which there is no proof.
What's wrong with him doing good things because the Bible tells him to? Is he not still doing the exact same things? What harm could be done by him following the Bible rather than just happening upon a strong moral sense of self? I'd contend that he most certainly does the things he does because of his faith and because of what the Bible says because knowing and believing the Bible has, in turn, made him know and believe the morals and teachings presented in the Bible.
I know you're right about the last part - I think a lot of people don't like him because they feel as tho he's trying to push his faith and use his religion to gain favor or whatever and that's sad but, you're right, it's certainly the case for some.
Well, I don't think this is the place to debate the existence of God, but I just want to say there are many things in the Bible that are scientifically untrue, so, at least in that one aspect, my disbelief in the Bible is based on science and logic.
I think the first calm and rational conversation about religion is happening on the internet. I am amazed and confused all at once.
Please please please please don't take this wrong. I'm going out on a limb and hoping you won't read the wrong "tone" here.
This is not a "well prove it" reply. This is, "I'm curious as to things you have found to be scientifically untrue," reply.
I'm not trying to be funny, a jerk, rude, etc... just want to here you out.
The whole evolution thing (or rather that the Bible doesn't account for it). Or that the Earth was created x million years ago (as calculated from the "facts" as told in the Bible) when it's billions of years older
I do believe in God and, I like you, also respect your right to have your own beliefs. It would be wrong for me to negbang you because we share different beliefs.
On the other hand, I will give you +1 because TB was really my first favorite rb when I was a kid living in Ann Arbor.
I would hate to negbang you just because we hold different opinions and I find it humorous that you even put that there just knowing someone probably will. Ah the beauty of public opinion.
Maybe this has less to do with publicity and charity and more to do with the fact that, pious or not, he's a warm-blooded male and she's beautiful.
I normally assume that a guy is a big jerk if the MSM is trying to tell me how great he is. Tebow, though, make me realize that this is a knee-jerk reaction on my part. I'm not (obviously) a Florida fan or even a Christian, but he seems like a really good guy in the sense that he seems to have ideals that go beyond his own self-aggrandizement and that he tries to live up to them...When I get sick of him now I think about how unendurable all the hype would be if, instead of having Tim Tebow as one of the best college players of the era, we had someone who really was a big jerk.
What does Tebow's girlfriend have to say about this.
3-way! (After they are married)
She no doubt better get used to things like this. She is dating the most publicized college athlete in America. Plus that if she is dating Tebow she probably has similar morals and values that he does so she wouldnt mind.
This was a classy thing to do when Brian Griese did it and it is still classy today.
Good stuff. Nice work Tim.
Pretty awesome thing. I'm somewhat cynical and skeptical with these types of "publicity" things, but it seems to be a patter with him, a good pattern. I hate the attention that he gets, and I wish more people would do good things for others when nobody's watching, but the girl wanted to meet Tebow and go to the awards, so you can't really blame him.
A lot of other athletes would take their moms (also a good move), but others could take some girl they hope to sleep with later (not a bad move, but not exactly altruistic, and not really an option for Tebow). Gotta like this choice though.
I have to admit, I like Tim Tebow more now that he's been proven to be mortal. Honestly, if he was good but not great at football, people would like him much more because he would not get overly hyped by the media but still would be a good person.
This is coming from an atheist, FWIW.
the media loves him.
He is not like OchoCinco of Favre always throwing himself in the spotlight.
He seems like is a genuinely classy individual and I wish him the best of luck with the Jaguars next season.
Ocho... still can't get used to that.
Get a load of the watch he's wearing.