Not that he isn't a good dude.
OT: Tebow is a good guy, Hernandez clearly is not...Jury is out on Urbz
apparently tried to keep him out the fight and/or defuse the situation by trying to pay the bill. Seems pretty good to me.
are also reports that Tebow kept Hernandez and Joe Kane from laying down in the middle of the street between lanes of traffic after the whole incident took place. These reports are unconfirmed at this time.
Not sure if its just me, but I stare at your avatar for about 15 seconds every time I see one of your comments/posts.
because you need more cowbell!
Looks like Tom Brady was concerned as well.
She is free and loving her Ohio State shirt.
is deliberating right now.
There is no way this bitch gets set free. Guilty. For. Sure.
Does inviting Hernandez over to his house countless times for bible study and mentoring count as intervention? Or how about Urban being labled by a Gainsville Sun columnist as a "surrogate father" of Hernandez after Hernandez's father died? Maybe inviting him to his home to spend family time with his children should be worth some sort of notation in your post? Urban deserves responsbility for some of the negative things that occurred at UF, but this one is unfair. Sometimes you can't fix stupid.
Agreed. Kids grow up for ~18 years with parents, siblings, extended family, friends, classmates, etc. A coach can not be expected to totally change a kid in 3-5 years of college.
I do think that some coaches give their players too much leash, but you can't go blaming Urban Meyer for a murder (or multiple murders) that one of his players commits.
If we expect Aaron Hernandez to take responsibility for his actions, then we can't also pass the blame on to everyone else he was in contact with.
Honestly, I think Urban Meyer believes he has always acted in the best interest of his players. I believe that he cares for his players, despite what some former players have said about his tumultuous career at Florida. What I find disturbing, however, is that he seemed (at Florida) incapable or unwilling to enforce rules or structure.
People are suggesting that some of these 18 year old kids come in with no structure and a laundry list of bad habits. Who is responsible for setting the norms and expectations? Who ought to provide the structure for those kids? They desperately need it. We are going to give him a break because these kids come into college having already made bad decisions? If he fails to provide a culture of integrity and honesty, is he off the hook simply because these kids are tough to work with? I work in a high school in a low-income community so I have witnessed firsthand the challenges and struggles facing kids who have formed bad habits. But I don't let them off the hook for acting like small children and I don't back down because they can be tough and defiant. I provide routine and structure and enforce my classroom rules every day. It's not that complicated.
I am totally willing to give Meyer the benefit of the doubt. As I said, I think he believes he has done right by his kids by being so lenient, and even a little careless when it comes to discipline. He is probably a much nicer gentleman than any of us give him credit for and I'm sure outside of football, he's a perfectly respectable guy. But let's not hold coaches to high expectations because the kids they work with can be "difficult." Yeah, duh. Be a man and coach them to be good men and be relentless in pursuit of that vision. You know, like Brady Hoke or something.
EDIT: I'm not suggesting that Meyer should share ANY blame for what happened recently.
for this. A much better way of saying things than I suppose I did (from the reactions thus far on the thread).
I am not blaming Urban for what Hernandez has become, and I even say that explicitly in my post. I do, however hold him responsible for NOT acting on this early act of violence. "Handled internally" meant NOT handling it in this case.
How do we know that it wasn't handled internally? Do we know if Meyer made this kid do 100 yard bear crawls in the Florida heat the next day? You are assuming it wasn't handled because he wasn't suspended. What if Tim Tebow, who was with him, told Meyer that Hernandez was not at fault and the bouncer was being a doucher? The police didn't charge him with anything so must we hold them responsible too?
Bear crawls and the like are given out when you jump offsides too many times in practice...or miss a blocking assignment. NOT breaking someone's eardrum in a bar room dispute with a bouncer that involved the police. And yes, I would expect a suspension.
Again, though, you are assuming. You have no idea what the bouncer said, how he acted before punches were thrown and you have no idea what Tebow, who you judged to be a good person, said to Meyer about the incident. And, again, we don't know what punishments were handed out internally (if any) for this incident that did not result in any charges.
Punches? How about possibly shooting two dudes after a game vs Auburn in 2007?
You seem to be just making excuses at this point because the bottom line is that all you say doesn't really matter. What we DO know is AH had acted out violently more times than once during his time at UF and never missed a game as a result. Does it really matter what a bouncer might have said? To me it wouldn't. Players are held to a higher standard than other students who don't represent the universities in such a public way, and letting things slide like this could very well have played a role in developing AH's feeling that he would never be held accountable for his actions.
I agree with what has been said thus far in that I don't blame Urban for the deaths of anyone, but I would be lying if I said I didn't think coaches could have a considerable impact in a young mans life, even if they were only there for 3-5 years.The sad thing is it seems that the impact Urban may have had was helping to cultivate AH's belief that he was, for some reason, above the law.
the police suggested a felony assault charge against Hernandez but it never materialize. Unfortunately, we don't know why they never proceeded with the charge.
After years of hearing from announcers how you were a better person just for being around Tebow, that doesn't always appear to always be the case. Nothing against Tim, but I got so sick of the fawning over him by ESPN.
But I have to disagree with you on "outside of football, he's a perfectly respectable guy." Of course, I don't have any facts, but if any of the coed rumors are true from Florida, he's a real sack of crap as a person. I also remember reading a collection of tweets from his daughter prior to accepting the OSU job and they were all along the lines of "he promised us no more football."
Whatever. I'm not bagging on you, Bay_Area_Blue. As I said, I really liked your post. I just really don't think Meyer is a good dude. I do think his culpability with the Hernandez issue is zero percent, though.
That's a fair point. I have heard similar things, and I didn't mean to say he is, in fact, a really great dude but that he might not be as bad as I envision him being. But wait. He coaches at OSU so of course he's not a good dude. ;)
if Tebow ends up starting TE for the Patriots?
I read somewhere that the DA in this case was a Florida booster and he declined to prosecute the felony charge.
Not sure if this is Urban's fault or just an SEC thing. There haven't been many arrests at OSU during his tenure, but most of the players are still Tressel's recruits. Time will tell.
I think that's a valid point. It seems reasonably clear that the culture at Florida was less than ideal - but the jury is out on the extent to which that culture was a product of Urban Meyer vs. a pre-existing condition.
Are you suggesting that Ron Zook ran anything less than a tight ship at Florida?
left UF and "retired" for 1 season, because the SEC boosters have way too much control. Maybe he wanted to boot Hernandez, but the boosters refused. That would make Urban a decent/ good guy.
I'm not advocating that position, but I do remember hearing rumors right after he left.
who openly admit Meyer ran a dirty program "while at Florida." Naturally, everything has changed since then.
We'll all find out in a few years, Either he stops recruiting these questionable youths and wins the right way, or he retires again.
was that he left because of an affair with a Florida coed. With roughly 25 arrest during Meyer's tenure at Florida I only remember Newton getting kicked out and that was for violating the school honor code and not Urban's decision.
than just from the bar fight. According to this article, he had failed as many as 6 different drug tests at FLA. If true, it kind of says a lot about the atmosphere that Urban had created in the program. At Michigan, he'd have been off the team long before it ever got to that many failed tests.
I'm not sure kicking Hernandez off the team would have changed anything. People that get kicked off teams for doing stupid things, usually continue doing stupid things.
But kicking kids off teams doesn't usually happen with a first offense. I think in most cases coaches, like employers and even parents, use progressive disipline. For a first offense (or a small offense) you might get stadium steps, then it might get to a suspension for a game after the second. You might even give them a longer suspension after that for a third depending on what the offense is or boot them off at that point.
What I'm getting at is if you never receive any form of punishment for your misdeeds, how can we expect them to learn from their mistakes and not develop a feeling of being above the law and no longer accountable for their actions?
A) Innocent until proven guilty LOLZ
B) When is a coach no longer responsible for what a kid they recruit does? 1 year? 10 years? 25 years? 18 Julian years? 45.67 Planck time units? 4 cosmological decades?
Give it a rest, guy.
I think one Mayan baktun is fair.
I'm going with 12, maybe 13 parsecs.
but I do think that coaches are in a position to have a lifelong impact on a players life. I have said this before, I don't think anyone can place the blame of the murders at Urbans feet, that's ridiculous, but I would bet my life that there have been many coaches over the years that took on players like AH and had such a positive impact on their lives that it changed the players path.
I think what many are saying is that Urban could have had that same sort of impact with AH, but obviously didn't. Does that make him guilty of the murders...no. But might it say something (and tell parents of players something) about the way he chooses to run his team and may put winning ahead of things like teaching your child to be accountable for their actions? I think it might.
Yea, I get what you are saying and I agree to an extent.
I (we) hold our coaches to a higher standard at M. We want our coaches to not only win, but also mold boys into men you wouldn't mind moving in next door someday. I get that and I like it a lot. Some other coaches don't do that. All they care about is the national titles, etc. BUT to play devils advocate I think at other institutions all that other stuff we hold dear isn't technically in their job description. Know'msayin'? /SEC Also, I can't say for a fact that Urban didn't do those things and even with AH. Some dudes just defy logic and turn out different. To place the blame at a coach's feet is too big a leap for me to make. I mean RR recruited Pacman and he was involved in some shit. I happen to think RR is a great coach /ducks and does try to convey a family atmosphere and does try to mold good young men. Some dudes just go about life a different way. That's just my opinion.
I don't disagree with any you said there. I agree that you can't place the blame for something like this at a coaches (or anyone elses) feet. He is a grown man and has to take responsibility for his actions (if he actually did it).
I also agree that for some people you can talk, teach and punish them until you're blue in the face and not make a bit of difference. I truly never meant to suggest that Urban played a significant role in getting anyone murdered. I also agree that in many other places, coaches might not be expected to take on the role of father figure and molder of young men.
What I was trying to say is simply as a coach you are in a position that could make a big impact on a players life and the type of coach I would want is the type that relishes that role and makes the tough decisions even when it may temporarily impact the teams win/loss record.
Again, I'm not saying he caused any of this, but I hope for his own sanity sake that he did try to influence AH for the better.If he didn't, that would be a lot to live with knowing you could have done more to try to make a change in a young mans life.
He just loves Blade Runner.
Of ability of a coach to have a negative influence, but I would expect a lot of people would say Bo influenced so many players positively...
I don't think anyone's being dismissive of a coach's potential to affect a player, either positively or negatively. It's more the constant desire among some people to tie Meyer to (possibly multiple) murder, motivated mostly by a sports rivalry. Something really dispicable happened, and people are using it as an opportunity to tie blame to someone who shouldn't reasonably be associated with it.
There's a lot of "I'm not saying Meyer's to blame, I'm just saying he could have prevented it if he hadn't been such a lenient coach," which is absolutely ridiculous.
that sentiment, so that would make sense then...
I think you make me grind my teeth as much as anyone on this site. I'm also on record as stating that as fans, we can pretty much take any opportunity to talk smack in regards to other teams.
In this case, I think you are spot on. This isn't tattoos, gold pants or a bar fight. People are dead. I won't bother with a plaintive "show some respect" because the people who will don't need to hear it from me. I defy anyone to show me an example of a coach advocating murder. I suspect that any self-respecting coach does a bit of soul-searching when a former player is in serious trouble with the law.
This is Michigan. If nothing else, don't act so desparate to find something to throw at other teams or fanbases. Let the team speak for you in the classroom, on the field, in the community, and most importantly, after they have left and met life's challenges. If they can't rise to that, what came before won't matter.
And some of Bo's guys still had issues, like Billy Taylor.
If (when) Meyer acts like a dick, he should be called on it. But I think it's a big stretch in this case to put blame on him, even indirect "should have intervened" blame.
I fear in our zeal to demonify Meyer we are treading dangerously close to the "Brady Hoke is so FAT - hardy har, har" territory we laugh at our rivals for taking.
Look - I think Meyer is a egotistical little weazel who reminds of a guy who needs to have his ass beat BUT he's also a Hell of a football coach who's won and won big everywhere he's gone. And to the best of my knowledge, none of the schools he has coached faced any NCAA investigations or penalties during or after his tenure.
I'm sorry but if the board had voted prior to Brady being hired who would you rather have as our next coach - Hoke or Meyer - the vote would've been a landslide for Meyer. And if he had gone undefeated in his first year here like Urban did with a projected NC game appearance projected for year two we'd have the board full of "Meyer, Yost or Bo......who was the greatest Michigan coach ever?" type threads.
Id have voted for Meyer but I didn't know how welcoming he was to thugs, nor did I know how right Hoke does things, either. Ask me now and I'd take Hoke all day. This is gonna catch up to Meyer, when the next OSU player commits a felony...after all, 'everyone murders'...
at Bowling Green. I was recently depearted when Meyer became the coach there, but a few friends of mine told me they had some unpleasant encounters with him on campus. Nothing major or horribly damning, but suffice to say he's pretty serious about everything (including parking spaces) ALL of the time. I'm sure that intensity has helped him become an excellent coach, and I'm sure he isn't out to "Win friends and influence people" so, take it fwiw. Also, that was over a decade ago, perhaps he has mellowed some since then.
Urban's tenure at Florida speaks much more loudly than anything regarding Tebow.
When did you get a new pineapple? And why did you get a new pineapple?
as everyone does from time to time, and came across this image of a pineapple with maize and blue in the background. Although I do love Simba manifested in pineapple, I thought this was much more appropriate and just as amazing. Plus, it brings out the color of my eyes.
LOL. I google pineapples, tomatoes, peaches, watermellons all the time. But I never get pictures of fruit.
Out here in the northeast, I heard on sports radio today, a reporter guy ripping Meyer pretty hard for his time at Florida, and how Meyer would say all the felons and problems on that team were "exagerrated"... then the reporter went on to say that it really isn't exagerrated when were talking about "murder"...
There was a very interesting post on Reddit, summarizing the charges and evidence against him. I didn't want to start a new thread, so I'll just put it here.
Why is everyone so focused on blaming Urban Meyer? What about his current coach Bill Belichick?
Clearly this guy had problems, but a lot of players do and a vanishingly small fraction actually end up killing someone. I doubt that Urban Meyer could have affected his outcome any. Hernandez is just a bad guy who deserves to go to jail forever. He probably should have been in jail a long time ago. Who knows, maybe Urban's influence delayed his downfall for a few years.
Because Belichick doesn't coach OSU.
I despise Urban Meyer as much as the next guy on this board. I think he was a scumbag at Florida, and watching the pure anguish on his face of losing to an unranked Michigan team at the Capital One Bowl is one of the highlights of my Michigan career.
But people trying to connect the dots between Meyer and Hernandez is just treading to close to the likes of OSU and MSU fans who berate and criticize Hoke for being fat. Its irrelevant and a little childish.
And personally, I'd derive much more pleasure out of bashing Meyer because he loses to Michigan. Its not like OSU fans could beat around the bush on that one.
I agree and I am glad that most of the comments here are wary of tying Hernandez too closely with Urban.
Urban knew and did nothing period it will happen at OSU watch
Here's a situation in which there are, roughly, three kinds of people: Suppose you're a consultant at work on a project one day and your boss informs you that he plans to (unfairly) throw one of your underlings under the bus to appease a client. Do you:
A) Enthusiastically endorse the plan.
B) Acknowledge the plan but feel guilty to some degree about not saying anything.
C) Try to keep your underling from being chucked under the bus. Assume, for the purposes of this example, that your boss could have a signficant impact on your career path.
I think Urban is A all the way here. As others have noted, he has lots of ability of a coach, but I think he's the type to do whatever it takes as long as he keeps within the letter (if not spirit) of commonly enforced rules. I don't see a thoughtful, introspective guy there.
That's quite the judgment placed on someone you have never met. Care to elaborate or give factual information as to why you think he would be said personality "a"?
If only we would have known about this story years ago. It would have almost mattered. Not really.
Hernandez was also questioned about an unresolved shooting after a game vs. Georgia in 2007. At the time he would appear an unlikely suspect...at the time.
Hernandez is clearly a very troubled person, and while Meyer isn't particularly strong on punishment I doubt he could have done anything to change what happened.
That said, this does make me like Tebow a bit more. I don't agree with him on lots of topics, but he definitely takes his mantra of helping others seriously.
We can't always say what will change people. I'll give a personal story to try and back up my point:
When I was 20 years old I had a new born daughter, had been in trouble numerous times in my life with the law, was a high school drop out and lived at home with my parents with no prospects or hope for the future.
My parents were great and my Father was always my best friend, but when it came to punishment they were pretty darn lax, and they had plenty of opportunity to dish it out. Even at 20 and with a new born daughter I had no interest in anything but partying. Finally my Dad came home and told me I had to either get a job, go back to school or get out.
I decided I would take my GED because I never really felt smart enough for school I was always the athlete in my family and my brother was the brain. I excelled on the courts and he did in the classroom. My parents always said I was just as smart as him if I would just apply myself, but they were my parents, what were they going to say, that I was stupid?
Anyway, back to the GED. The teacher was my best friends brothers wife so I knew her a little. I attended class for a week and then following class one day she asked me to stay after to talk to me.
After everyone left she looked at me with a puzzled gaze and said "_______, what are you doing here?" I felt like a fool and told her "I know, I'm stupid but my parents said I either had to go to school or they were going to throw me out of the house."
She continued to stare at me in disbelief and said "No, I mean what are you doing here as in this is a waste of your time, you should be getting your high school diploma and going to university."
Hearing that from her at that time in my life was enough to give me the confidence to try for the first time in my life. Before I just wouldn't try because then I would have an excuse for failure, but now I finally wanted to try because someone (other than my parents) actually said they believed in me.
Fast forward 19 years and I am finally a person who my daughter (who is now almost 20) can be proud to say is her father who has a moderately successful career and a great family. I also haven't been in trouble with the law since that time either.
My point is we can't always tell what will impact a persons life. It doesn't always have to be something huge, sometimes it's just a little comment that comes at just the right time in a persons life.
Cool story. Seriously.