HelloHeisman91

January 22nd, 2010 at 2:45 PM ^

Yes to rest. As a baseball fan I am ready to get the steroid era behind me. I hate the fact that single greatest American sports record is now a sham. As far as I am concerned the real record is still 61.

Joined: 08/05/2009

MGoPoints: 46190

HelloHeisman91

January 22nd, 2010 at 3:17 PM ^

Until they develop a reliable hgh test what else can they do? I would like to see retroactive testing put in place but I doubt the union will ever let that happen. As long as the dope makers are ahead of testing it is going to be an uphill battle but at least they are not turning a blind eye anymore.

Joined: 08/05/2009

MGoPoints: 46190

FGB

January 22nd, 2010 at 3:18 PM ^

how do you know 61 is the "untainted record"? Roger Maris had a one-year spike in home runs that would have any contemporary ESPN talking-head screaming. Players took amphetamines for decades. And Babe Ruth was drunk all the time, maybe that allowed him to unnaturally loosen up and hit better (kind of like how I'm awesome at pool at 2 and a half drinks!). Who knows. There's no way to tell what is "untainted" and what isn't. The numbers are what they are, you just have to view them all in your own moral context. I don't like Barry Bonds. I think Barry Bonds took steroids/HGH. But Barry Bonds undisputably hit a baseball out of a baseball park more times than anyone else.

Joined: 09/24/2009

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FGB

January 22nd, 2010 at 3:43 PM ^

Maybe he started taking amphetamines that year and had never taken them before. Maybe his bat was corked. Maybe he paid off every pitcher he faced. I'm not suggesting there's anything untoward about Maris' home runs, but it's just as naive to look at his spike in home runs and say those are absolutely clean, as it would be to do the same with respect to Brady Anderson (who physically looked a lot like he did when he hit 12 home runs the year before he hit 53 home runs) The point is the numbers are what they are, and it's incredibly hypocritical to pick and choose steroids as the method of cheating deemed to be worthy of scorn, while turning a blind eye to amphetamines (or anything else), despite any concrete evidence about the impact on player performance for either one.

Joined: 09/24/2009

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FGB

January 22nd, 2010 at 4:13 PM ^

You look at how peoples numbers change, and you FEEL like they have some huge impact on the game. But we don't know how much of an impact any of this has, as compared to greenies, or pine tar, or corked bats, or scuffing a baseball. For every Bonds, there's a Howie Clark. The reason people are so up in arms over this form of cheating is because they think it's had a huge impact. But who knows how much of an impact it's had? Barry Bonds was one of the greatest baseball players ever before he started using roids/HGH. Maybe he got a boost, but maybe he still would've hit 68 home runs in 2001 even without them. People come up with random outlier seasons....just ask Roger Maris. So why exclude McGwire from the HOF but allow every player who used greenies every day of their life?

Joined: 09/24/2009

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creelymonk10

January 22nd, 2010 at 4:29 PM ^

to cheat and use steroids so now we'll never know if he would've hit 70 or however many while clean, because he decided to take it into his own hands. And the reason so many people are up in arms over steroids,especially in baseball and not as much in other sports, is that its helped several people break arguably the biggest individual record in all of sports.

Joined: 12/04/2009

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Seth9

January 22nd, 2010 at 4:33 PM ^

First of all, corked bats don't actually help that much, if at all, when it comes to hitting home runs. (this isn't a particularly important fact, but it jumped out at me, so I thought I'd include it) Second of all, there is no evidence that Roger Maris ever cheated. He had one outlier season, which also happened to come the year where he played in the largest number of games on his career. Ample evidence exists to indicate that McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds did cheat. Therefore, we can give Maris the benefit of the doubt, but not them. Thirdly, and most importantly, using substances that artificially allow you to add muscle is a lot different than making you more focused, or cheating in more traditional ways. Adding muscle means that you can intrinsically put more force on a baseball, enabling you to hit the ball further. This intrinsically increases the chances of hitting a home run every at-bat. Therefore, it seems safe to say that steroids are a big game changer.

Joined: 04/01/2009

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FGB

January 22nd, 2010 at 5:15 PM ^

although I don't really believe most of my argument, and actually would tend to presume that they do in fact have a significant impact. But it's a valid argument to at least consider in my opinion (being a man of science as I am). BTW, I appreciate your edit with respect to the parenthetical...I merely raise corked bats not to suggest they have an impact, but as part of the plethora of methods players used/use to cheat.

Joined: 09/24/2009

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Todd Plate's n…

January 22nd, 2010 at 2:41 PM ^

I get the sense, based on little to nothing, that a guy like him thinks the average baseball fan would attribute 100% of his accomplishments/talent to steroids and simply will never come completely clean. Also, I never understood how he could publicly say that he took them for health/rehab reasons and that he truly feels he would have hit those home runs without them, because he didn't take them for strength. If we were talking about the single longest home run ever hit, then yes that works...but we are talking about season and career long records, which a sentence before he attributed longevity to his steroid use.

Joined: 03/27/2009

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theyellowdart

January 22nd, 2010 at 3:02 PM ^

That I don't care what so ever if an athelete uses any type of PEDs? It honestly doesn't matter to me at all, if it makes the sport i'm watching more entertaining, that's all I really care about.

Joined: 09/03/2008

MGoPoints: 1570

theyellowdart

January 22nd, 2010 at 3:36 PM ^

While I don't have children, and I'm 99.99% sure my opinion will change on this when I do. When they reach an appropriate age they can make their own choices with their life and their body. Now I don't disagree that it is giving them an unfair advantage over players who don't use PEDs. But, in my ever so humble opinion, I think that PEDs should be legal and allowed in sports. I fully get how shallow, shortsighted and immature that sounds too. But it's the honest truth, the 98 baseball season was the greatest single season of baseball i've ever gotten to enjoy. The fact that a huge chunk of players, including the two that made the season so amazing, were on PEDs simply doesn't really matter to me. I simply enjoyed the amazing show they put on.

Joined: 09/03/2008

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Noahdb

January 22nd, 2010 at 4:32 PM ^

Maris' numbers jumped from 16 to 39 as soon as he went to the Yankees (with better protection in the lineup and that short right porch). He went to 61 the next year, but played in 30 more games. They gradually dropped back down. It wasn't like he was Brady Anderson who from hitting 10-15 a year and had a one-time spike to 50 and then went right back to 10-15. I also would hesitate to compare taking greenies to taking the cocktail of drugs that McGuire took. McGuire was taking stuff they normally give to racehorses. He was also taking stuff in ENORMOUS quantities.

Joined: 07/21/2008

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Noahdb

January 22nd, 2010 at 4:37 PM ^

BTW, when Maris hit 61, he also had ample protection in the lineup. The Yankees had six guys who hit more than 20 home runs that year, including Johnny Blanchard who hit 21 in 93 games.

Joined: 07/21/2008

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Noahdb

January 22nd, 2010 at 4:47 PM ^

Another element to this is that you really don't want to create a sport where people have to kill themselves in order to participate. (This is the big issue that the NFL is going to have to deal with as we learn about head issues and concussions.) Allowing steroids basically tells 14 year olds that you have a choice: You can have a normal set of male reproductive organs or you can play baseball. That's probably not the way to get people to enjoy your sport.

Joined: 07/21/2008

MGoPoints: 477

Mgobowl

January 22nd, 2010 at 5:19 PM ^

Is the playing field going to be fairer if the PED's are legal or not? I don't know the answer to that. However, the PED's did not help them hit the baseball contrary to what many people think. If I roided up I still wouldn't be able to hit the broadside of a barn. The skill was there for all of these guys, it's unfortunate they weren't content with what they had.

Joined: 05/20/2009

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HelloHeisman91

January 22nd, 2010 at 7:49 PM ^

It helped them hit the ball further and there is evidence that steroids help eyesight which would help hand eye coordination which would help you hit the ball as well. I don't think anyone thinks steroids can make the average Joe a baseball player, steroids can make an good baseball great and a great baseball a legend. If you put racing fuel in a Ferrari you are going to get a machine that performs better.

Joined: 08/05/2009

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