OT - State files federal complaint against schools with Native American mascots
A complaint filed Friday by the Michigan Department of Civil Rights is asking the federal government to step in and prohibit the use of American Indian mascots and imagery in K-12 schools across the state.
The department filed the complaint with the U.S. Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights. The complaint cites 35 Michigan K-12 school districts — including Clinton and Tecumseh — responsible for “alleged discrimination.”
The schools are known as the Clinton Redskins and the Tecumseh Indians.
The complaint says research now shows the use of those mascots and imagery causes “actual harm” to American Indian students by lowering self-esteem and impacting student achievement...
http://www.lenconnect.com/article/20130209/NEWS/130209430/-1/Editorials
Mod edit: I think most viewpoints were heard and there was a good debate on some topics, but we've hit a point of no return with the political line. JGB
February 11th, 2013 at 8:16 PM ^
there was the group of Native American students at the University of Northern Colorado that named their intramural team the "Fighting Whities" just to prove a point that racial names are not cool in their opinion. This was the team logo:
They actually sold the shirts to raise scholarship money for non-white students, in addition to protest Native American mascot usage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_Whites
February 11th, 2013 at 8:27 PM ^
This is amazing. I'm quite tempted to buy one of these just because it's so abnormal. I love it. http://www.cafepress.com/fightinwhite.121951158
February 11th, 2013 at 8:11 PM ^
I am not Irish but I demand Notre Dame to change their logo from a drunken Irishman wanting to fight in a bar alley to something more politically correct. My feelings are hurt. Change my diaper too.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:36 PM ^
Notre Dame High School in LA is not the Fighting Irish, but the Knights. This does not offend any Irishmen.
It severly offends daytime, however. Specifically Dayman. Fighter of the Knight man. Champion of the sun. He is a master of karate and friendship. For everyone.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:38 PM ^
What has this place become? A hilarious post being negged.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:12 PM ^
Why not let the tribes decide? I suppose in generic "Redskins" or "Indians" and the like that's not possible, but it seems to me some tribes (i.e. the Souix and the Illini) recognize the adoption as a mascot a symbol of honor, not discrimination.
I can understand why they're doing it, but unless there's been pushback from Native Americans it seems like a waste of time.
February 11th, 2013 at 9:24 PM ^
There is no "Sioux" tribe. They refer to themselves as the Lakota. "Sioux" is a derogatory term used by enemy tribes, such as the Crow. This is why North Dakota has had an issue. If they were the Fighting Lakota, I don't think the tribes woud mind.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:12 PM ^
I can't wait.
February 11th, 2013 at 9:55 PM ^
Yes, the person creating "Herm"'s persona shall have to work himself up into a fit of mock outrage.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:15 PM ^
and we have to ban animals as mascots.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:18 PM ^
Now you're talkin!
February 11th, 2013 at 8:27 PM ^
protest schools that use live animals as mascots, such as the University of Colorado. They've been doing that for years.
I'm a member of PETA - People for the Eating of Tasty Animals. the other PETA can go to hell lol.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:40 PM ^
Who negged this post? Animals are fucking delicious and I will be eating one in a matter of minutes. And when my kid puked on my leather seats, it was a lot easier to clean up than had I gone with cloth. I love animals and the things they allow me to do. Anyone trying to stop me from doing so can go to hell.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:58 PM ^
Apparently I said or did something to tick someone off last week, because posts as much as a week old have been negged by some random guy that doesn't have the stones to come forward and tell me what I did to set him off. He literally went through everything I put up and downvoted all of it across the board. I even got downvoted on my congrats comment on that cute twins birth announcement from saturday. Thanks for voting me back up!
February 11th, 2013 at 9:04 PM ^
Don't worry, you aren't alone. I have some kind of secret admirer who tracks my posts and negs them all regardless of content as well.
I'm wondering if I should get them a box of Russell Stoven for Thursday?
February 11th, 2013 at 9:06 PM ^
February 11th, 2013 at 9:07 PM ^
Well I negged your post about PETA because I thought it was dickish, but I'm not a serial negger.
February 11th, 2013 at 9:08 PM ^
I went through the same thing recently. People are sell, aren't they?!
February 11th, 2013 at 9:27 PM ^
Totally sell.
February 11th, 2013 at 9:30 PM ^
Damn ya. I re-read it a minute ago and went to sneakily change it. I HAYTE MAYKING GRAMMER ADN SPELLING ERRARS RAAHHHH
February 11th, 2013 at 9:11 PM ^
The hippies and vegetarians.
Guess what hippies, I hunt. That's right, I kill animals for FUN.
But also delicious meat which last my family a very long time, the rest of which goes to the homeless, and I sell/collect the skins.
~Herm
February 11th, 2013 at 9:33 PM ^
God this schtick is getting old.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:45 PM ^
for wolverines is "stink bears". The Michigan Stink Bears?
February 11th, 2013 at 8:15 PM ^
Well this isn't getting political at all....
February 11th, 2013 at 8:26 PM ^
On the one hand, I think that the campaign to be politically correct and totally inoffensive (to certain people) gets carried away. And I can't say I'm thrilled with the idea of the State of Michigan taking legal action about high school nicknames.
On the other hand, if there are legitimately groups of people that are offended by the use of names like this, I think that teams should just change their names. These are just games, why use offensive nicknames?
Obviously, the use of actual tribal names can be tricky, as with the cited examples of North Dakota on one hand and CMU on the other. But a team name like "Redskins" is totally unnecessary. It is a racial slang term, and AT BEST a nickname like that is the equivalent to a nickname of, say, the "Birmingham Negros." And possibly worse than that. Nobody would consider the latter hypothetical name appropriate, so why would we think "Washington Redskins" is?
I work with underprivileged kids as a part of my ministry, and one of the things we do is pick up kids on a bus. While involved in our activities, abusive language is not acceptable and will be dealt with; I won't tolerate anyone calling our Native American kids a "redskin" or "savage" any more than I tolerate the N-word, B-word, C-word, or anything else. Why do we accept it in team names? As a consequence of this, I try (not always successfully) to refer to the Washington football team only by city.
One side note: The citation mentions a lot of teams called Warriors. Perhaps those schools use Native American imagery, but the term "Warrior" is not a specific reference to Native Americans, and has a rich history in Biblical, Shakespearian, and historical usage. The wikipedia entry on "warrior" scarcely references Native Americans at all. They are overstepping in that case.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:28 PM ^
I agree. I don't understand why the first reaction tends to be "That's absurd! They shouldn't have to do anything with the name!" instead of "It's just a mascot, and they could easily change it." The list of pros and cons to this looks pretty lopsided.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:44 PM ^
February 11th, 2013 at 8:48 PM ^
LOL, WTF is wrong with people
February 11th, 2013 at 9:19 PM ^
FWIW, while I won't say it's offensive, I do think it's weird to associate all European people with the Caucasus mountain range (which straddles the border between Europe and Asia).
The term "Caucasian" is the one surviving relic of the medieval idea that there were three racial groups in the world: the Caucasian race, the Mongoloid race (East Asian) and the Ethiopic (Sub-Saharan African). The other two names have passed out of usage, but Caucasian survives for some reason.
February 11th, 2013 at 9:52 PM ^
Uh America has been catering to the minority vote for about 200 years. Not sure where you've been...
February 11th, 2013 at 9:30 PM ^
Because people have formed identities around their schools mascots and don't like change. They especially don't like change that's forced on them and is apparently motivated by saying you terrible whitie's are being insensitive which is guaranteed to get people's backs up. In addition to that psychic cost there's also the monetary cost of changing uniforms, signs in the schools, stationery, etc. In other words it can't be accomplished by a simple waving of the hand.
Full disclosure my high school's mascot was the Indians and we got the local tribe to endorse the mascot, even had to have them send in a letter of support to the broadcast networks in order for them to show the Marching Band participating in the Rose Parade.
So yeah, I'm not entirely sure what is suppossed to be accomplished by putting a lot of people through a lot of trouble when time and effort can be better put to understanding why so many reservations are such hellholes and trying to fix those problems instead.
February 11th, 2013 at 9:38 PM ^
Fair enough. I'll add "White people don't like it" to the list of cons.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:30 PM ^
a quick google image search of the teams using the name warriors features their mascot as a stereotypical Native American. They can keep the name warriors as long as they change the logo - make it like an ancient Roman soldier or something and they'd be totally fine.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:41 PM ^
I'm sure some civil rights groups who represents ancient soldiers would take issue with that at some point.
February 11th, 2013 at 9:13 PM ^
Or they could not worry about it and realize that Warriors has a completely different connotation than Redskins/Redmen/etc.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:49 PM ^
February 11th, 2013 at 8:56 PM ^
This is sliding quickly into territory where it can't be on the board, but I don't think there's enough of it yet to pull the thread (which has at least marginal connections to the purpose of the site, unlike who sits in a certain chair in Vatican City).
Surely the differences between the tone of the original post and first round of comments between the two threads isn't lost on you, and no, I won't stop calling you Shirley.
February 11th, 2013 at 9:10 PM ^
February 11th, 2013 at 9:17 PM ^
there are two differences that are noteworthy:
- My interpretation of Seth's rule is that standard is applicable for forum topics, and I think Cold War did a good job with his post. He obviously sets a lot of the board rules and I'll follow what he says, but that's not the standard I'm looking for when determining what constitutes flamebait material right now.
- I don't disagree that things are eventually going to get to a point beyond which the thread needs to go. For now, there's still enough good to outweigh the bad, which hasn't been really bad...yet. It's a delicate balance and all I can do is feel it out. Maybe you have a different opinion than I do, maybe BiSB or Seth or PGB also do, but that's what happens with judgment calls.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:30 PM ^
Clinton is my school's biggest rival and I hope they change their name to the red potatoes. Here comes the spuds.
February 11th, 2013 at 9:52 PM ^
My Irish ancestors don't like the association with potatos.
My Cherokee ancestors are not sure about the use of red.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:37 PM ^
Why does everyone want to make sure no one is offended nowadays? If the tribes don't go to a specific school or go to the capital and say they're offened by all the schools with indian related names, why is the state wasting time on this?
February 11th, 2013 at 8:39 PM ^
I understand the complaints, but when these mascots are all gone, what happens to the idea of Native Americans in our current culture? Outside of sports teams and these mascots (whether you think they're tasteful or not), Native Americans are not very prevalent in our nation's culture. I think that as these dissapear, so does the mention of Native Americans in general..... Who knows.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:43 PM ^
Yeah I'm not sure the CMU Chippewas are the last stronghold for maintaining the legacy of Native Americans.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:45 PM ^
Exactly, it's not just CMU. A small part Soaring Eagle Casino as well.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:42 PM ^
What a great day on here, right? First it was open season on my religion and now this pissing match.
Maybe tomorrow will be some discussion of American conspiracy theories!
February 11th, 2013 at 8:44 PM ^
Religion? What did I miss?
February 11th, 2013 at 8:46 PM ^
Thread about Pope Benedict XVI stepping down turned into a religious debate with numerous shots. It took a lot to not say anything but I stayed strong. My trip to Bolivia taught me to keep calm and keep scrollin'.
February 11th, 2013 at 8:57 PM ^
Your trip to Boliva came after you made what could be construed as a very offensive joke about an ethnic minority...
February 11th, 2013 at 9:05 PM ^
Hence the reason I Keep Calm and Keep Scrollin'. I learned it from a group in a village.