OT: Star Wars: The Force Awakens reaction thread WITH SPOILERS
A long time ago, in a thread very, very off-topic:
I just got back from seeing The Force Awakens. It was fantastic, absolutely wonderful. JJ Abrams is to Star Wars what Jim Harbaugh is to Michigan. It's entirely possible that Jim Hackett helped assemble the cast and crew for the film.
We're going to discuss the movie, with spoilers. If you haven't seen it, turn away immediately and go watch it so that you can get the full experience.
What did you think? How could George Lucas make such abominable prequels when someone is capable of making something as amazing as The Force Awakens?
May the force be with Blue.
December 18th, 2015 at 3:36 PM ^
Loved it.
Some very minor quibbles away from being A+, I'd put it at an A/A+ as is.
1) It seemed like everyone in the movie was 20 years old or from the original cast. Just kind of weird.
2) The resistance plan for attack seemed like they might as well have drawn it up on a cocktail napkin. A little silly.
3) Other things that have been mentioned in thread.
But it was great. New cast is very likeable. Loved how they actually developed the bad guy and he wasn't just bad because he dressed in black.
Loved how they layed out the old cast. Every time movie needed a shot in the arm one was introduced at just the right time. And given her age and being famous for letting her self go, carey fisher still had a little something going for herself, not that I want to see a reprisal of the bikini.
Han was great but he was running around like Han SLOWLO. He looked like John Navarre out there. He was fantastic in the movie, but sacrificing him really gave Kylo ren some needed heft and saves us from seeing a mid to late 70's harrison ford playing an action role.
Really, you put out just about any crap but throw in some lightsabers, space battles, and blast the music and I'll probably love it. Speaks to how bad George screwed up the prequels. But JJ hit a home run.
December 18th, 2015 at 3:38 PM ^
Also, turns out Daniel Craig played the stormtrooper from the interogation sceen that gets mind tricked.
December 18th, 2015 at 5:15 PM ^
Didn't catch that at the time, but now that you say it, I can totally hear his voice there.
December 18th, 2015 at 6:09 PM ^
I just heard a rumor that the Stormtrooper that Rey convinces to let her go free was played by James Bond himself, Daniel Craig. Apparently he really wanted to be in it, but wanted an uncredited role where his face wasn't shown. HAHAHAHAHA
EDIT: Got beat to the punch above...
December 18th, 2015 at 7:17 PM ^
Just returned from the theater, and I came away more than satisfied. That movie struck a chord back to my childhood and really laid a great foundation for the next 2 films.
December 18th, 2015 at 8:35 PM ^
outstanding - can't complain about similar plot to IV - the arrogance of the empire/1st order/fascits is a call back to the Nazis of course. I would have liked to hear more about how the 1st order rose from the empire, but they focused more on (really good) action and you never felt like the threat of the 1st order ever went away. they were on your mind the whole movie, like a constant stress thru the whole movie.
The one thing that didn't get mentioned in the thread was Chewie - his character deserved to have shown more emotion when Han died. IMO . Hoever, he is a pretty old Wookie - 100+ years? not examctly his 1st rodeo with death.
the "junker" joke about the MF had people in the theater CLAPPING and LOLing, including myself. JJ really rocked it IMO
December 18th, 2015 at 8:44 PM ^
re: jedi strength.
I think everyone assumed the force awakened in Finn, and maybe it did, maybe not. Not really clear. BUT: he was a highly trained STer that I'm sure was trained in hand to hand and staff combat. Plus, maybe the force was awakened in him a bit too.
Rey - who knows if she's Lukes kid, but at the very least she is a) VERY strong in the force. b) had it awakened by the lightsaber and then by Kylo (BTW, knights of Ren? what's that story?). c) I think the force can matastacise differently in different people, plus she at the very least has survived on her own for several years - not exactly a farm boy. d) Ren is obviously at the beginning of his training in the dark side. Can't control his emotions (obvs), is subordinate to the red haired guy (who is pretty young himself). Lightsaber is a bit wonky. Snoke clearly has to complete his training (as he said at the end). Clearly he's conflicted (a grey jedi so to speak) and can't fully access the power of either side effectively.
jsut a great great movie. emotional, suspensfull, character driven, unique stories from many characters, familiar for others. Wish Luke had slightly more screen time, as in, an actual line.
December 18th, 2015 at 11:15 PM ^
Just got back myself and really enjoyed it. 100x better than the prequels and I would say just a tad bit lower than ANH but close to being on par. I was pretty satisfied and thought JJ and the cast was phenomenal.
While Han's death was a stab in the heart...it did feel necessary for a variety of reasons.
A couple of thoughts.
Rey has to be related to the Skywalkers in some way. I am leaning toward her being Luke's daughter---more than likely hidden for safety. She's too force strong to be just a stranger from outside of the family.
Han's death allows the door to open for Lando's return. I could see Lando being a big asset to the Resistance and since this movie followed ANH model...one would think the future sequels would follow a similar pattern with ESB and ROTJ--both featured Lando.
Snoke is probably Darth Plagueis--the physical likeness fits the description and he seems ancient---he is too powerful just to have picked up the ways of the Dark Side from the "ashes of the Empire" It'll be interesting to see if they tie the plot back to midi-chlorans and that DP is indeed Luke's grandfather.
December 18th, 2015 at 11:27 PM ^
Don't get me wrong, good movie, but the villain did nothing for me. Adam Driver just does not intimidate me at all, even behind that mask.
Other than that, the acting was solid, and I did like how they tried to get away from the prequel idea of just CGI-ing the hell out of everything. I just wasn't as blown away as I thought I'd be. But I think that's partly a product of having impossibly high expectations.
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December 19th, 2015 at 3:04 AM ^
I took it as most of the galaxy isn't afraid of Kylo Ren either.. At least no where near the magnitude of fear the galaxy had for Vader. That also drives the character of Kylo Ren in that he want's to be as powerful as Vader was, but is afraid this his own strength is not up to par. Also he is paranoid that everyone around him knows it. At this point in the trilogy he is just a beginner in the Dark Side of the Force.
Speaking from within the story, and not from the writters point of view. I believe Snoke purposely held Kylo back In order to drive him fully to the dark side. To correct the mistake that Sidious made with Vader. In setting Kylo Ren up to kill Han Snoke made Kylo sever what he believed was his only connection to the light side of the force. I believe in Episode 8 we will see a more confident, ruthless, and completley trained Kylo.
December 19th, 2015 at 12:30 AM ^
December 19th, 2015 at 2:51 AM ^
Who the hell is Kyle?
December 19th, 2015 at 5:47 AM ^
how bout you get off autocorrect's back?
December 19th, 2015 at 3:08 PM ^
If it was posted from a mobile device sure... sure sure sure.
December 19th, 2015 at 12:53 AM ^
what a fucking letdown
Great charaters (particularly the new ones), nice tone, elements of fear, humor, longing, etc.
Beautiful to look at as well.
and it's just a sad rehashing of episode IV, & VI.
Oh look, an even bigger death-star-planet . . . with a small technical weakness.
It quickly turned from homage to reconstituted , rehashed, warmed-over crapl.
December 19th, 2015 at 2:50 AM ^
Well you can never please everyone. I think JJ, and Disney are content with pleasing a near perfect majority of Star Wars fan's and movie goers.
December 19th, 2015 at 8:12 AM ^
December 19th, 2015 at 9:24 AM ^
December 19th, 2015 at 11:29 AM ^
It was good, not great.
I felt this paralleled Episode IV way too much. I wanted the story to continue but feel like this doesn't quite line up with where the original movies were going. I also felt it gave too much screen time to the villain.
Another complaint I had was that I felt like they were trying too hard to add humor. I had flashbacks to the Transformer sequels where it was like they intended it to be a comedy and some action got in the way.
I hated the ending. It was predictable and annoying.
The characters were good, the storyline moved well. All that said, I am reserving a full on disappointment level till the rest of the trillogy comes out. I can see how this would lead to movie 2 and 3 being more fullfilling.
I am quite irritated with Disney though. They have turned this into a massive cash cow. You can live a whole day interacting with strictly Star Wars branded items. You can't watch TV without seeing it somewhere. There are 2 'off shoot' movies coming out (Star Wars Rogue and one about Han Solo). One of the things I loved about Star Wars was it wasn't the Marvel universe. It was fun and enjoyable and limited. It took 35 years for us to get 6 movies. In the next 5 years we'll have 5 more. I really hate what Disney has done to this franchise.
December 19th, 2015 at 3:13 PM ^
George Lucas practically destoryed the franchise, creating all of 3 completely terrible movies for it in the last 30 years, and you hate what DISNEY has done to the franchise?
December 19th, 2015 at 4:33 PM ^
2 different things. Lucas definitely screwed up the pre-quels for sure. That has no bearing on the fact that Disney took over, rewrote the entire canon to their liking, then sold the name to every product short of condoms and tampons.
December 19th, 2015 at 5:01 PM ^
Your right, prior to Disney there didn't exist Star Wars t-shirts, lunchboxes, action figures, dolls, toys, fake lightsabers, cereals, gummy snacks, hats, bottle openers, playing cards, keychains, coloring books, trading cards, costumes, chocolate candy bars, disappeared Christmas specials, puzzles, comic books, pinball machines, video games of every platform ever in existence, board games, garden gnomes, novels or legos.
December 19th, 2015 at 5:50 PM ^
If you are someone that likes the expanded Star Wars universe I can see being irked by Disney essentially removing it. Most people I know like Star Wars but I am not aware of any of them liking the expanded universe. Maybe a few are fans and just keep it quiet. Disney spent 4 billion on the franchise, I don't think its reasonable to think they'd cater to a very small segment of the fanbase over making something new and probably more profitable..
December 20th, 2015 at 4:04 PM ^
Yea. I get it. They aren't just shelling out 4 billion for a tax write off. When they bought the rights I was afraid of this. Marvel movies do great with this business model due to the fact that the movies till Disney bought them were disjointed attempts at individual satisfaction. Disney has done an awesome job pulling them together into a franchise that connects great. This mentality just doesn't work (in my opinion obviously) with Star Wars. Marvel had the commics which fed the franchise. Disney is just making things up as it goes now and so far they haven't impressed me with their ability to come up with something new on their own. Again, I think the next 2 movies will be pivotal to determining just how good this movie really was. Look back and the casual fan was just as excited after The Phantom Menace came out as well. I just hope we don't get spammed to death with made up story lines and movies and tv shows and cartoons, and Christmas Specials etc....
December 20th, 2015 at 3:57 PM ^
Because that's obviously what I just said.
December 20th, 2015 at 4:05 PM ^
That has no bearing on the fact that Disney took over, rewrote the entire canon to their liking, then sold the name to every product short of condoms and tampons.
It is what you said...
Go watch any documentary about the original Star Wars or the re-mastered original trilogy or the prequels. Merchandising has always been a HUGE deal with Star Wars and it is what made Lucas rich. He never gave up merchandising rights which led to him becoming a gabillionaire.
December 20th, 2015 at 4:16 PM ^
Again, What I'm saying isn't that they shouldn't market or that Lucas didn't market. I said that the level of marketing Disney has done is excessive. Will it pay off? Likely, but at what cost. If the end goal is just dollars and cents I'd say Disney has a home run. If only there was a related way I could illustrate that just because you can market something doesn't mean you should... Crap, can't think of anything. Let me go grab a box of Kraft Mac-n-Cheese noodles shapped like Vader and see.
http://ksn.com/2015/11/18/star-wars-the-marketing-awakens/
December 19th, 2015 at 6:18 PM ^
It's Disney's bad that they out-did half of the Lucas movies?
December 20th, 2015 at 3:26 PM ^
Dude, it was so much worse with the prequels. The tie-ins, merchandise and ugly clothing were overwhelming and just awful.
December 20th, 2015 at 4:06 PM ^
Agreed - but again, that's not a Disney thing. And, I'd argue it got really ramped up with the re-release of the originals, not just the prequels.
December 19th, 2015 at 1:47 PM ^
After a day of digestion, here is how I would rank the star wars films
Phantom menace : 3/10
Attack of the clones: 1/10
Revenge of the Sith: 2/10
A new hope: 9.5/10 or a 10/10
Empire strikes back: 10/10
Return of the Jedi: 8/10
Force awekens: 8.5 /10.
Won't be able to really grade Force Awakens till the trilogy is complete, I could drop it down to a 7 or it could go up to 10/10. It introduced the characters well and I am curious to see where the story goes from here. Those are the 2 things that need to be achieved in the first leg of a trilogy.
December 19th, 2015 at 6:16 PM ^
I think that Kylo Ren was visibly affected by Chewy (!!!) shooting him after he kills Solo and that is why his powers seem to be lesser to Rey's. I also think her backround as a fierce, independent scavenger had something to do with her edge.
December 20th, 2015 at 11:58 AM ^
With all the young female action hero type movies beign thrown out there right now (Hunger Games, Divergent), Rey is easily going to be - or already is - the best realized character of any of them.
If I had a daughter, man would I be super giddy about my daughters growing up with this era of Star Wars.
December 20th, 2015 at 3:30 PM ^
I honestly wasn't as struck by similarities between ANH and TFA because the Death Star/Star Killer (nice tip of the hat to Luke Skywalker's originally planned last name) threat wasn't really the main focus of the movie. The plot was more about getting BB-8 and the plans to the Resistance and the race to find Luke, but the movie was really about the characters, who were just fantastic, and their journey.
The Death Star rehash is unfortunate. I think ANH set a precedent that is hard to top; there isn't really anything more dangerous than the ability to destroy a planet (which, to be fair, is insignificant next to the power of the Force). Another major issue I have with the Star Killer is that the First Order is more a rogue paramilitary faction than a ruling totalitarian regime, so it should be much more difficult to fund construction of a Death Star, and retrofitting a planet would probably require a lot more work (if either were possible in the first place). Abrams could have gone with a more novel existential threat, but I think it was the right move to play it safe after the damage done by the prequels.
It's so refreshing to be able to speak positively about characters in a new Star Wars movie after Jar Jar Binks, stalker Anakin and every line of dialogue between him and Natalie Portman, and all of the other one-dimensional characters of the prequels
December 20th, 2015 at 3:40 PM ^
Last nerd-out for the day, but without even trying JJ Abrams accomplished with BB-8 what George Lucas tried so hard to do with the Ewoks and Jar Jar Binks. The latter two were merchandising opportunities deliberately placed in Star Wars movies. Not only is BB-8 one of the most adorable things to ever appear on screen, but he is important to the plot and a memorable character in his own right. BB-8 steals our hearts without having to be shoved down our throats.
December 20th, 2015 at 4:09 PM ^
Reminds me of Wall-E and makes me wonder how much influence Wall-E had on Abrams and the writers/designers/CGIers.
December 20th, 2015 at 4:00 PM ^
I liked the movie the first time, but upon further review, my opinion of it soared.
Great movie, special effects were unparalled (just like ANH).,
The characters were great. (I empathized with them and cared about them.)
Daisy Ridley, John Boyega, And Oscar Isaac where phenomenal.
Mbig complaint is that I wanted more. SPOILERS COMING:
How did Poe escpe Jakku and rejoin the rebelion? How did Han and Finn cross the huge chasm and reunite with Rey?
How can Rey match Kylo's force power whn h has had years of training and practice?
I know these questions are not integral, but they took me out of the movie.
This movie was so good that I screamed "Noooooooooo!" during a certain scene even though I was pretty sure it was coming,
All in all, my opinion is "Awesome"
December 23rd, 2015 at 11:15 AM ^
Probably not going to be read by anybody, but here it goes...innter-dork, on!
During the prequel era, Darth Plagueius is killed by his apprentice, Palpatine, who goes on to become the emperor. Using his powers to create life, Plagueius either reincarnates himself into a new being (Max Kanata references "seeing the same eyes in different people" over her thousand year life) or fakes his death.
Either way, once the empire is formed, Plagueius enlists in the empire under his alter ego, Snoke. Over the years, he rises to the high ranking position of fleet commander. Using his power and knowledge that comes with his position, Snoke begins betraying the empire, and Palpatine, by feeding the rebels highly-sensitive information as "The Operator," (mentioned in some of the now-canon Disney novels,) including the plans for the Death Star. In the end, it is his information that is most vital in allowing the rebellion to bring down the emperor and win the Galactic Civl War at the Battle of Jakku (which we see the remnants of).
A power vaccuum ensues within the empire. Again, using his knowledge, he culls off generals and sections of the empire he doesn't like until he has his ideal force with which he now commands. Because of his actions, the New Republic and Resistence are now empowered, controlling half the galaxy (new novels), but Snoke, having provided information to them over the years, has gained their trust as "The Operator."
He "finds" a force sensitive child like no other in Rey, which he provides to Luke for training. Secretly, he created her, just as he did with Vader, (guessing we will see hints of this in Rogue One, as many suspect Rey's mother is one of the main characters) hoping to plant her within the new Jedi Order. She is, like Anakin, a great pilot, and self-reliant, aching for her lost family. In the meantime, Snoke abuses his trust within the resistence to begin communicating with a young Ben Solo. Over time, Ben is pulled to the Dark Side.
Before Snoke's plan can be seen to fruition, Luke discovers Ben's betrayal. Ben, now as Kylo Ren, quickly acts, slaughtering all of Luke's students, but one, Rey. Luke steals her off to Jakku, erases her memory, leaving her as a scavenger and effective slave, but under the watchful eye of Kenobi-esque Lor San Tekka (the guy who provided the piece of map at the beginning of the movie to Poe).
Years pass, and Rey grows up. The events of the movie unfold. Rey's powers and memories remain dormant until she touches Luke's/Anakin's lightsaber. Quickly the force awakens within her and the memories start to emerge.
Going forward, Luke will claim to be her father in Episode VIII, but by the end of the movie we will find out or have hints that she is the product of Force manipulation, just like Anakin Skywalker. she is Snoke's daughter and Vader's sister. This means that the Skywalker clan is a branch of Darth Plagueius/Snoke's family tree.
Finally, not sure how this will fit in, but the new novels mention that Palpatine, prior to his death, sent exploration parties outside the known universe in search of the source of the dark side. How this will be used in the upcoming movies, I am uncertain, but expect some new element/discovery to play a major role.
And that's that. Phew. Is this what is likely to happen? Probably not, but I'd love at least one or two parts of it to happen. Feel most confident about the stuff regarding Snoke as "The Operator," which is almost certainly alluded to in it. The stuff about the in-fighting within the empire and what not are also canon backstory.
Okay, shutting down my inner-dork for a while. If anyone reads this, I'd love your thoughts!
December 23rd, 2015 at 5:46 PM ^
I kind of feel like that's too complex of a story for the theatre. Great non-canon story to write a series of books around, but let's face it - SW movies aren't that complex and deep and I don't see any parts of this trilogy being to closely related to the prequel era (or pre-prequel era).
I think it's much more likely that she'll be Luke's daughter and/or simply strong in the force and happened to be abanded by her unknowing parents for reasons that aren't really important to the audience/storyline.
I'm just pumped to see good story telling, great action and outstanding characters in SW films again.