The apocalypse is officially upon us all. Repent, sinners! Repent!
this may be of some local interest
The apocalypse is officially upon us all. Repent, sinners! Repent!
Hey, no relig--
Oh fuck it. Repent!!! REEEEEEEPEEEEEEENNNNNNNTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!
To say. He was co-coordinator with Sarkisian, so far, I think Steve has had a better career.
Who has 100% control of his program. He doesn't have to look over his shoulder and worry if this guy is going to replace him. This is a great hire for Alabama. Lane is a very good coordinator despite being an ass most of the time.
This is a great example of a dumb comment.
How insecure do you think Brady Hoke is that he has to worry about his OC? Nuss knows his place and its under Hoke. Don't start random talk of Hoke being worried.
you seem to be projecting this comment. there was no mention or even hinting about hoke.
i think it was more about a head coach being willing to hire a high-profile guy like kiffin. if, let's say... oh... nebraska hired him as OC, don't you think there would be tons of talk about him replacing pelini?
I apologize if I put words into this poster's mouth but I was simply referring to the fact that other posters on this board have mentioned that Nuss is being groomed as a successor when Hoke gets fired. I also took the poster's comment as a slight to Hoke in that he may not have been completely in control and that DB had a hand in playing in the hire. Which I don't see why people had a problem with it because Hoke seemed to be married to Borges and needed a push to make the right decision.
Kiffin isn't really a high profile hire, he has almost set fire to every place he has been at and has an unfavorable reputation. His success has always been paired with USC and Carroll.
Who cares if people slight Hoke or suggest that Nussy could be a replace. Let everyone speak their mind. If their opinion is relevant will be shown as such by time or fact if not then it makes your argument stronger. The fact that someone can't question or slight Hoke without being deemed a "stupid commenter" is disturbing. It takes both sides to make an argument, like it or not.
How dare you.
Go cheer for another team.
Hoke is not going to be fired while DB is Ath director. The more likely scenario is that the new president fires both Brandon and Hoke if the program lags in the next few years. Leaders like to have "their people" in place, that goes for ADs, coaches and U Presidents. When a new president comes in and this team still stinks, it will be a blood bath all the way down. I don't think an OC would survive in that scenario.
I thought he was spot on. It was pretty clearly inferred in the above post.
If you read my comments I never mentioned Hoke. In fact I wasn't even thinking of Hoke as i wrote it. Simply stated, Saban is very comfortable at Alabama and doesn't have the worry of fearing that whoever he hires is going to be his replacement.
It is not always about you.
He was the OC at USC this year (and HC)...and he sucked. You thought Borges' play calling was underwhelming...I had to sit through a 10-7 loss to Washington State at the Coliseum. Buck Allen only had 14 touches under Lane, he had 14 TDs under Coach O. Norm Chow was the star OC under PC...when he left Sark and Lane were co-OC...they did not hold a candle to Chow...and Sark was the better of the two. Lane is a cancer and this will not end well...and if U did not like Bama before...now they truly are the Evil empire.
that is going to be the most awesome train wreck ever. those two guys are going to scream at each other on national tv weekly. saban and kiffin should be a reality show.
Here's a game for us to play. How will Saban top USC's "See-Ya!!" parking lot discharge when he decides to shit-can Kiffin?
I'll go first. Saban will fire him mid-air on the way to a game (for maximum surprise), and throw Kiffin out of the back of a moving jet, D.B. Cooper style.
you're saying it will go down something like this?
The possibilities are endless with this one.
does anybody think Saban would take any crap from his assistants, especially in public?
It should be fun watching Lane and Nick work together.
Alabama @ Tennessee, October 25. Get your popcorn ready.
I just don't get it. What has this guy ever done to keep getting these high profile jobs?
...in Pete Carroll's tenure at USC when Kiffin and Sarkisian took over for Norm Chow as the guys who ran USC's offense, and they both gained reputations as brilliant offensive minds for the success that USC had after that.
I'm not saying Kiffin doesn't get some credit for that offense, but that 2005 USC team probably had more offensive talent than any team in the history of college football. He's also proven to be an extremely toxic personality that pretty much leaves disaster in his wake wherever he goes.
The arguments for Lane Kiffin, Man of Genius are far from bulletproof, but the Carroll years are where his reputation (the good part) comes from.
However, I do trust - as much as I don't like to say it - that Saban can tell if a guy knows Xs and Os. Also, his biggest weakness at USC as HC seemed to me (fwiw) to be maintaining morale and unity among his team, and Saban will take care of that.
Problem is that Saban is the consumate micromanager. He is in everyone's buisness. Maybe Carroll was the same way, but I have a hard time seeing those two having a healthy working relationship considering Kiffin's rep. I dunno. Maybe Saban can keep him in line. If anybody could, it would probably be Saban.
I would happily watch Saban and Kiffin sink each other.
Norm Chow was already known as an amazing offensive mind. His work at BYU before USC was brilliant, and I always assumed he'd one day be an incredible HC in the NFL. For some reason, the rest of football caught up with him, but I'd give Chow most of the credit for what happened at USC. That's not to diss Kiffin, but just to say that Chow had already proven his chops.
Exactly. Lane took over for Chow as Co-OC with Sarkisian and only held that position for two seasons. One was 2005 where USC had two Heisman trophy winners on the same offense, among gobs of other talent. Their offense was outstanding, as you would expect.
In 2006, Lane's offense managed 27 ppg in the Pac-10 when they were the only decent team in it, including a 13-9 loss to UCLA.
Those are the only two years Lane was an offensive coordinator, and he shared the spot with another guy. Those are the two data points that are the most impressive on his resume. Great offense with Leinart, Bush and co. followed by an average year with still better talent than anyone they played.
Why do we think he's such a great offensive coordinator?
I understand your point.
However, last I checked, Pete Carroll was doing pretty well for himself without Lane Kiffin, Steve Sarkisian, or Norm Chow.
You do know his dad is Monte Kiffin right??? Jeez!!!
Mrs. Kiffin brings her muffins to staff meetings every day.
Welp whatever. I'm happy with Nussmeier.
Good luck Bama. Nice doing business with you.
He was a good coordinator, but really only in a place where everything was already clicking. Since that time he has been a wrecking ball. The assumption is that Saban will be able to cover the bad parts of Kiffin. Let's hope that is wrong.
with an assumption that they can handle the imperfections of the subordinate in order to enjoy the goodness. It rarely works because it drains the supervisor.
I give Saban credit for thinking this through to his own satisfaction, but time will tell if Lane is more trouble than he is worth.
Man, this is going to be interesting to watch. Two snakes, and two very large, ah, unique, personalities working very close together. This'll be one to watch.
As an aside, can someone refresh my memory on Kiffin's OC resume. I'm thinking back, and he basically hangs is reputation on great offenses for like 2 or 3 years with an increadibly loaded USC team. Now, obviously, Bama is pretty damn loaded as well, but for a lot of the critique I hear of Nuss is that it was Bama's talent and not him that made the offense good (and yes, Bama fans, that offense was very good). But no one seems to critique Kiffin the same way for probably even more stacked USC offenses.
The interesting thing is I think we have a lot of talent on the offensive side. It was just underutilized. We shall see over the next year or two. Can't wait to watch.
I posted this above, but he was co-OC for two years (with Sarkisian) under Carroll. Year 1 he had Leinart and Bush and the offense was great, and year 2 he averaged 27ppg in the Pac-10 which at the time was a conference full of scrubs. He did hang 32 on us in the Rose Bowl in his last game there.
I hope their huuuuge egos collide and we get a huge explosion in the inbreed state called Bama
It may be only a few games into the season when Kiffin is asked to get off the bus and walk home.
Lane is a great recruiter but has he ever actually been successful anywhere in coaching? Plus the added marriage of city-slicker rich boy Lane Kiffin coaching in Alabama under incredibly high expectations.
I predict that we go less than 3 regular season games before half the fanbase hates him
What could possibly go wrong?
With Les Miles next door, Kiffin better keep a close eye on his wife.
At least he does not have to worry about James Franklin anymore.
But there's also Louisville to worry about now too.
tops. 1 1/2 if there is a big public fight at a game.
WOTS is he has already committed two recruiting infractions. Bama has self reported though and it's all good.
How Kiffin fits into the System run by Saban confounds me, but this was apparently the goal all along so I guess we'll have to see how it plays out. Personally, I think they butt heads early and often, but with all that talent it may not matter.
Another tornado is coming to Tuscaloosa.
What is your honest answer:
If you had your choice of Kiffen or Nuss to be Michigan's OC, who would you choose?
I would be tempted, but can't honestly say that I would prefer Kiffen for Michigan.
I would not want Kiffin anywhere a coaching position at UM. Never, never, never. He's a snake and everything he touches burn except for his stint as an OC at USC. And frankly, UM is not nearly the culture that USC is/was, that could accomidate him and his personality.
Kiffin flaunted a series of minor NCAA violations at Tennessee and got in public feuds with other coaches there as well. He also arranged for UT co-eds to recruit on his behalf. And a lot of people started questioning his playcalling at USC, and that team was a near-disaster by the time he left.
I think Saban will keep his worst traits from hurting the Tide, but I wouldn't want him anywhere near Michigan.
Its not even close - Nuss.
so, I'll just take everyone's word on Nuss. But, I can smell. So, I would decline Kiffin in favor of a grab into the bag of OCs.
I would like to hear your argument in favor of Kiffin. I would have been OK with Kiffin, but that was when I didn't think we'd have a shot at a guy like Nuss. Franky, I don't think it's even close.
Kiffin is an abomination. His whole resume is one good year as Co-OC with Sarkisian. Sarkisian's proven to be a pretty good coach. Kiffin on the other hand has been a train wreck at both his HC stops. It's not even close.
100% Nuss. I don't want that headcase kiffen anywhere near Michigan. I 100% want him coaching at Lil Bro or the Buckaroos.
In my opinion this is the worst mistake of Nick Saban's career, and I think it's very likely to end in a trainwreck.
To see this Dynasty that's presumed built in Tuscaloosa just kind of unwind itself from within over petty factors like personal disagreements between coaches...more or less that Saban sold one of the horses that got him to bronze statue prominence for a pittance on the nearest street corner.
I can see Kiffin being every bit the bust he actually is. What I see from Kiffin from way back here is he says all the right things in an interview and gets hired. He might be a play design genius on paper an in the office. But get out on the field in the fire of the game and it all falls apart. This might just be the last stop for Kiffin....if he does poorly the attention given to the story by the media will be withering. And string together a series of failures at the Raiders, Tennessee and USC (plus potentially Bama going forward) and he will be working at the Waffle House and not at a D1 program.
I'm convinced that serious adversity comes to every program at some point or another. It might stay away for a good long run under a legendary coach. But the entropy of keeping it all going at a high level year after year after year is something which really denotes who the legends are.
I can't imagine how tough 20-year-old black kids could see Kiffin as anything other than a preppy douche.
i don't care what the bama folks say -- I'd take Nuss over Lane any day.
Damn, Sparty was right. Now I don't feel so good about the Nuss hire. /s
that Saban was too hands on with Nussmeier. Wonder how that will work on Lane.
with Kiffin's wife...
No one falls up like Lane Kiffin....
There is no way this lasts more than two years. The personalities are just too big to coexist.
First we get a great OC and now we can watch Alabama collapse!
could pull the wool over Saban's eyes, I imagine it would be Fire Lane Kiffin
did Nick Saban become Al Davis?
They just serve the same boss. And yes, I realize AD is dead.
This just seems like a fundamentally bad idea. I bet Bama fans will pine for Nussmeier by midseason.
If you needed extra reason not to care what Bama fans think about this situation, look no further.
Here's a Washington blog interviewing a Bama blog writer (from Roll Bama Roll) about Nussmeier. It's entirely glowing, and concludes that he'd be a good choice for Washington's head coaching job. Nothing about how Saban wanted him out, rabble rabble rabble. This was **one month ago**.
MaizeNBrew just did a Nussmeier interview with THE SAME BAMA BLOG, and the tone is "he sucks, talent didn't develop, McElwain was better".
It's hilarious to compare.
Both interviews feel extremely arrogant to me. It makes sense though. This blog had some arrogance to it after a 2-0 start, I could only imagine Bama blogs after multiple national championships and double digit win columns year after year.
I can't say that I would disagree if I were in their position. (LINK)
So you fire a guy who coached the 13th and 16th ranked offenses (in PPG) for you the last two years, and then you replace him with a guy whose offenses at USC were 29th, 11th, 36th, and 51st? Seems odd.
Nobody was fired.
Sorry didn't mean to say fired, but it's pretty clear that he was gently pushed out the door.
I hear ya. Sorry, thought you were referring to Nuss.
I hope he fails!
The best part about this for Kiffin perhaps is that Saban typically does not let those under him have extensive interactions with the media, as I recall, which is ideal if you're going to have Lane Kiffin on your staff. It will be interesting to see what Lane Kiffin can do at a place like Alabama, that's for certain. CBS quoted Saban as being impressed with Kiffin's offenses and playcalling, so take that for what it may be worth.
Can't over-emphasize how little exposure Kiffin will get at Alabama. Nussmeier talked to reporters 4 times in 2 years.
— Andrew Gribble (@Andrew_Gribble) January 10, 2014
Given that, it's impressive how well Nussmeier did in his press conference today.
I'd be very surprised if Saban manages to keep those numbers so low.
Is Saban worried that anyone but St. Nicky might get a smidgen of credit?
The question is, how long can Kiffin himself stay away from the cameras? Will he, or will his personality eventually push himself into the limelight dispite Saban's wishes? This is what I think is going to be interesting.
Nothing says "quality move" like bringing in a guy who's last team dramatically improved immediately upon his firing.
Hey man, let it go. Borges is gone now. Besides, it took Auburn TWO years to crack the top 30 in PPG after Borges had them at #100 in his final year.
Explains why he was invited to BAMA to be a "consultant"
Hey look Saban and Nussmeier where going to split . They obviously didn't like each other.
They (Bama fans) Flipped out after the bowl game loss where the offense had 516 yard ,31 points and 5 turnovers (most of which where fumbles). The great bama defense gave up 45 points to Oklahoma. People who insinuate Nussmeier was being fired at Bama for poor performance have no leg to stand on.
Does this mean Monte will become the line coach?
Everyone has an ending. Even Saban. So it begins.
My thoughts exactly! I have been thinking since the Auburn game, that maybe, just maybe, this is the beginning of the end.
I have no feelings good or bad about Kiffin, what I do want to know is when his book is coming out. This man has accomplished little on his own, but is always finding a way to end up with top jobs. Can't wait to read all the dirt he's using to get there! /s. Kinda
I don't think Kiffin is an automatic upgrade over Nuss. Yeah, he was great at USC under Caroll, but you can't ignore his less-than-stellar track record as HC either.
It will be interesting to see how their offense looks, and how Kiffin and Saban work together.
Why would you care about his Head Coach record when he is a coordinator? Derek Dooley was great as a recruiter and position coach and I think a team would do well with him. I wouldn't care how he did as a head coach when he is not doing that job.
Kiffen just needs someone to keep him focused. Saban is the guy for the job.
Not saying they go on a run of 3 NC in 4 years or anything crazy, but they should stay above 10 win seasons for the near future.
Why wouldn't we care about his record as head coach? He's still ultimately in charge of the offense as a HC, and he obviously has significant input on the plays being called. I'd say his recent coaching stops are very relevant in determining whether he can lead a successful offense.
A primary reason for hiring his dad as DC was the benefit of Lane focusing solely on O. He ran the O in practice at USC and was the game day playcaller.
What I don't see is the "innovator" label or "uptempo" style that Saban has attributed to Lane. His USC offense was classic pro-style and, although it ran a 2-minute approach well, fairly deliberate.
Simply to crush Kiffin and enjoy watching him suffer to pieces before bringing in the next OC? Or is this like the time Gustavo Fring hired Walter White?
Lane Kiffin sucks at peddling meth.
A perfect fit
Lane Kiffin POSBANG time! If Nuss was gently nudged out for Lane, then I'm a happy, happy person. UM benefits greatly from this transition.
The Kiffin hiring sets up a very interesting future scenario if/when Saban retires. If Bama's offense continues to roll with Kiffin at the helm, it sets up a juicy coaching change scenario. Maybe 'Bama's DC will get first dibs, but I love the thought of Lane Kiffin being considered for the Bama HC position in a few years.
I think Alabama greatly prefers Smart. The team is built around defense historically with the "offense wins games, defense wins championships" meme. Bill Battle would also prefer a Southern Boy.
How great would it be if Nick called a presser tomorrow to announce that he has fired Lane Kiffin.
I understand the concept for forgiveness and trying to allow for people to get a chance at redemption but in the past 24 hours we have seen both Bobby Petrino and Lane Kifflin given positions of very high responsibility at major college FB programs when each is on their 4th or 5th chance (that we know of). Petrino is back at the place he first gain notoriety at jumping away from.
I hope UM football never comes close to being this desperate.
There has been a lot of wild speculation about Nuss being forced out at Alabama by Saban. I have a slightly different take (based on my wild speculation) and connecting some dots.
Alternate Theory: Michigan decided to hire Nuss prior to the bowl game and planned to announce it sometime after Alabama's bowl game. Nuss informed Saban of his intention to leave for the Michigan Job sometime in early December with the agreement that he would coach through the bowl game.
Saban is a very intense coach and it would not surprise me that one of his assistants would want to look elsewhere at some point.
11/27/13 - In what appeared to be a response to Jabrill Peppers having some concerns about Brady Hoke's job security, Dave Brandon posted on his blog that Hoke is the right leader for Michigan. During that post he had praise for Hoke, praise for Mattison, but praise for Borges was missing coupled with comments about job responsibilities.
To me the posting seemed to suggest that a decision had been made on Borges at that time. I believe any decision would have been by both Hoke and Brandon together.
Last Month (timing not defined): Saban invites Kiffin to look at the offense. He is there for approximately a week according to the ESPN article. Rumors start to surface that Kiffin is going to be the next OC at Alabama.
12/28/13 - My recollection of the Bowl Game was that Borges was very short with the media immediately following the game and did not have much to say. His demeanor would suggest that maybe he knew the decision had been made already.
The announcements of the firing of Al Borges, hiring of Nuss by Michigan and hiring of Kiffin by Alabama all take place within 24-48 hours. The speed of all the announcements suggests that these dominos were all in place a long time before this week by all parties involved.
I could be totally wrong, but this seems equally plausible to me, especially when I consider the comments by Brandon in November and the sudden appearance of Kiffin in December at Alabama.
Sounds a little crazy but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the truth.
It may just be wishful thinking on my part, but it sure seems like a lot of this was determined well before this week. I could also be biased because I love the Nuss hire!
I think you've nailed it. Good work detective Bighouse22
I have to agree! I think you nailed it! The chain of events, would suggest that you are correct, or very close to it.
I was thinking this same thing yesterday. Makes a lot of sense.
I read through this thread and all I see is a bunch of people hoping Kiffin fails... it ain't gonna happen. Bama, and Saban, will continue to win games and Kiffin will continue to be a jackass. The only diffference now is that Kiffin will win more games...
I think Nuss is a welcome addition to our staff.
I think Kiffin is a positive addition to Saban's staff.
Did Kiffen talk shit about Saban while at Tennessee? Or was that only directed at Urban
Just Urban. He said Alabama was better than Florida and would shut down Tebow in the SEC championship game.
Which was a wholly accurate statement --one of two Kiffin has made in his life.
“Kiffin ..took time to throw jabs at Alabama coach Nick Saban shortly after national signing day in 2009.” After hiring linebackers coach Lance Thompson away from Alabama, Kiffin said that Thomson had been largely responsible for Saban’s success. He boasted that Saban’s success in Tennessee, now that he had Thompson, was at an end. Unfortunately, the next day, Saban got another Tennessee commit.
This link and another article detail the checkered career of Lane Kiffin. After reading these, it is hard to believe that that Saban did not want Nussmeier and preferred Kiffin. Rather, it seems increasingly plausible that Nussmeier just wanted out of Alabama and saw a better opportunity at UM.
I kind of wonder if Saban isn't seeing the end and is looking for a hand picked successor. One thing Lane Kiffin is is a good coach, what he is not is a good head coach and could have used a few more years of mentoring. I'm wondering if that is what this is all about. Kiffin learns from Saban and in 5 or 6 years, or less, takes over as the Alabama head coach.
So to recap 2014
Watch Sparty win a Rose Bowl
Hire Alabama's offensive coordinator
Watch Alabama replace him with Lane fricking Kiffen.
Is a good coach? He's resting on the contacts and rep of his daddy.
Interestingly Kiffin has also never been a QB coach before. When he was at USC, Sarkisian handled QBs the whole time (and called the plays too I believe).
Saban and Kiffin together is the football equivlent of the non-aggression pact between HItler and Stalin ... and it will last just about as long.
Obviously Saban is Hitler, and Kiffin is El Duce.
I just don't understand why Alabama being at the top of the mountain would bring this mess in waiting into the program. I'm glad they did, but I just don't get it.
I don't always win a national title and go to a BCS bowl in consecutive years, but when I do, I change offensive coordinators.
When's the last time kiffin has had a successful coaching job
Is he still getting paid by Oakland and USC too? He's made quite a lucrative career of failure.
What about UT?
So Saban had a rift with Nuss because he was too overbearing and Nuss didn't like being controlled, so Saban replaces him with Kiffin? This will end well.
What I was hearing from Alabama fans is that Saban and Nussmeier didn't see eye to eye on the offense (that Nuss opened it up too much) but he is willing to trust Kiffin to run power 50 times a game?
I agree, this seems odd.
For everyone speculating that Saban is setting Kiffin up to be the next head coach. If true, maybe Saban wants to guarantee his legacy as a great Bama coach when Kiffin fails.
It sounds ridiculous to people unfamiliar with the state of Alabama, but "2nd place" to Auburn puts a mountain of discontent in the Bama fan base. Finishing 11-2 doesn't matter if Auburn is a rung higher.
Malzahn is clearly the golden child now - national coach if the year, biggest turnaround in SEC history, offensive genius, more prepared than Saban. Now Malzahn has all the momentum with recruiting, too.
Saban needs a "reason" for the decline and the OC is the obvious choice. He cannot blame Smart as Saban's specialty is D and he has mentored Smart for years. Plus, Kiffin could help reverse any recruiting mojo by Auburn.
The stories about the lunatics in the rivalry simply reflect the actual lunacy of both schools's fan bases. It dictates just about every move by both programs.
"Malzahn has all the momentum with recruiting, too"
Really? Who has the #1 class? Who landed De'Shawn Hand?
First, a Hand and the vast majority of the recruiting class was landed pre-Iron Bowl.
Second, Malzahn has landed 3 4* since the Iron Bowl.
Third, the buzz in Atlanta (hottest recruiting territory for both schools) high schools is "Auburn plays exciting ball and Malzahn is a players' coach". Part of the Auburn pitch to HS coaches, right now, is Malzahn's roots in HS just 9 yrs ago mean he is one of them and they should support his staff.
Fourth, the first three points are supportive of the underlining issue: Bama always has great classes (a constant) while Auburn has rebounded to close the gap (rapid change). That's momentum - and even Saban will get canned if Bama is second to Suburn.
Those points are the perception. Not saying its logical or factual, but the lunacy of the fan bases in the region are real.
People who know a lot about football and know Lane Kiffin directly as a coach and person keep hiring him. It's hard not to trust Saban at this point, to say nothing of Carroll and all the others. He's gotta have some skills that we don't recognize. God knows what they are.