OT - Sour Brian Kelly Disputes Late Penalty That Cost Irish Game
Per the World Wide Leader
Brian Kelly indicates his disagreement with the referees at the conclusion of last evening's 31-27 loss to Florida State.
According to Coach Kelly:
"Actually I have less clarity," Kelly said during his Sunday teleconference. "I guess it was actually called on Will Fuller, not C.J. (Prosise). So [it] just adds more uncertainty as to the final play.
"But again, the play itself, in terms of what we ask our kids to do, it was pretty clear what happened on the play: Florida State blew the coverage and they got rewarded for it. It's unfortunate."
As per the play itself; Kelly saw no issue with the ND player but rather the Florida State player initiating the contact (that saw him blocked 4 yards into the end zone):
"All right, so he was on the point, we were in a bunch situation," Kelly began. "First of all, it's my understanding now that Will Fuller was called for the penalty, not C.J. So C.J.'s job is to get into the end zone and turn around and be a big target. He was immediately grabbed at the line of scrimmage. He's trying to get depth into the line of scrimmage, into the end zone so Corey can clear a path. And so as that contact was being made, it was seen, I guess -- I don't know who saw it as interference -- but you've got two guys that are trying to fight for space. We saw it as such.
Brian Kelly: "We don't coach illegal plays"
Never change Brian Kelly, never change.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11728483/brian-kelly-not…
October 20th, 2014 at 2:50 AM ^
questionable.
this is basically the same as kevin garnett getting pissed off at a ref for calling a moving screen.
October 20th, 2014 at 4:32 AM ^
October 20th, 2014 at 4:57 AM ^
This was literally the definition of offensive PI by 2 players. People who say refs should't decide the game just don't get the fact that when ND does something so blatantly illegal that they force the refs to make the call.
October 20th, 2014 at 7:14 AM ^
October 20th, 2014 at 8:32 AM ^
Sorry but you're wrong. It was the right call.
October 20th, 2014 at 5:08 AM ^
that our own coach was bitching about referee calls that went against us in a tight game against a national power in their own stadium.
October 20th, 2014 at 7:09 AM ^
October 20th, 2014 at 5:04 AM ^
how to run the pick play without it being a blatant pick play.
October 20th, 2014 at 6:05 AM ^
He can dispute it all he wants. The loss will forever be in the books. Just like our loss against Rurgers.
October 20th, 2014 at 6:49 AM ^
Kelly is a whiny jerk.
October 20th, 2014 at 7:05 AM ^
October 20th, 2014 at 7:28 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
October 20th, 2014 at 1:41 PM ^
Lineman releasing early on screenplays used to get called until a few years ago. I'm waiting for a ref to pull that rule out of the bag in a big situation.
October 20th, 2014 at 8:04 AM ^
It may make you feel good to nit pick Kelly, but his coaching runs circles around our own. Also, at least he actually had a converation with the press and produced complete sentences whilst doing so, all while sitting at 6-1 and ranked #7; not to mention having completely pantsed Michigan on a national stage earlier in the season. To point this out screams inferiority complex.
October 20th, 2014 at 8:14 AM ^
Penalty, plain and simple. He's lucky they didn't get called for it on the earlier TD.
It will be fun to watch how the Irish followers work the media to try to weasle into the playoff.
October 20th, 2014 at 8:22 AM ^
The student who committed suicide after being raped received text messages advising her that it was a bad idea to try and cause trouble for ND football. ND administration was more freaked out over the fake death of the fake girlfriend than the real deaths of real students. And apparently this is the tip of the iceberg there. But hey they are a winning team so people are willing to overlook it and we wish he were our coach? No. We don't.
October 20th, 2014 at 8:33 AM ^
Welcome to conference play, Domers.
The FIRST RULE of conference play: The higher-ranked team (especially at home...AND EVEN MORE ESPECIALLY if competing for a national championship berth)...gets the benefit of the call.
If it was FSU driving late to win on the same play, the flag stays in the pocket. Guaranteed.
October 20th, 2014 at 9:22 AM ^
WHERE ART THOU
October 20th, 2014 at 10:32 AM ^
I bet that guy didn't go to ND
October 20th, 2014 at 9:46 AM ^
the referees are by and large terrible, inconsistent and incompetent. Refs at the high school level are the same, and ironically maybe a little better. I don't know about the NFL, as NFL football is virtually unwatchable, so I don't really care. At all. I just know that NFL refs are paid more, which tells us all something right there about how fucked up the ref profession has become. Do they do a better job at the NFL level? Is it more challenging. We know the answer to that question.
The refereeing at college football games has become so bad, it's going to take a few more blown calls like ND at FSU for someone to decide to something about it. But whatever that something is, as long as you have human intervention, you can expect a heaping helping of human error along with a super-sized order of bias.
People are talking about FSU vs. ND this week. For the last time, Notre Dame is IN NO POSITION WHATSOEVER TO BE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE REFS!!! They were undefeated beneficiaries of some of the worst refing in the nation. Ignoring that fact is just disingenuous.
When I was a little kid, it was Charles White diving into the endzone from 3 years out for 6 pts without the fucking football for the game-winning touchdown. I've grown up with that vision in my brain.
It's all shit thanks to ref fuckups. Expect more, not less.
October 20th, 2014 at 9:57 AM ^
Now, I know when people say that they usually mean to shed a more sympathetic light on both parties. In this case it's the opposite.
EVERYONE was trying to cheat instead of just playing some goddamn football.
Brian Kelly knows what he's doing. Yes they were routes, but he had the two inside receivers run inside routes to bait the defenders playing man, turning the routes into a screen. This is common. He knew they would initiate (in case of the inside guy) or relish (in case of the middle guy) the contact and Batman-ed them perfectly. Meanwhile the wideout runs an out route. The routes are specifically designed to counter the MSU-style grabby-grabby press man coverage FSU was supposedly playing, and shield them from the guy breaking open. I agree with the sentiment that those receivers were NOT trying to get open. They ran right into their coverage and blocked. To an extent this is defensible because it's crowded and frankly you shouldn't just yeild your route because a defender is there. But they ran inside specifically because the outside receiver was running an out. I saw hands move inside, not swim to get past. Kelly is flat-out lying in that they were just trying to run routes; they knew damn well what they were doing. "Create space" was press conference code for "blocking". The call was justified.
FSU, meanwhile, was supposedly playing press man but they weren't really pressing. They caught the receivers and stuck to them. This was also 100% deliberate. If the defenders really cared about the outside receiver they could've easily disengaged. They didn't even try. Kelly's right; their motion outside was not impeded until it was way too late and the receivers were working their way inside. Those guys were not trying to cover the outside receiver; the middle guy was trying to commit PI and get away with it. You don't grab a guy 4-5 yards downfield, backpedal to his motion and then claim he was preventing you from going anywhere. The defender almost never tries to draw offensive PI in that case because they almost always lose. The play was drawn up and executed in such a way that the only way you can say it's offensive PI is if you gauge intent. Which was blatant, but not the refs' job, which is why they never call it. The call was preposterous.
So all around this is the sort of football that pisses me off. This isn't playing the game; it's playing the refs and the refs meddled. Kelly drew up a play deliberately designed to bait the D instead of create space organically. The middle FSU defender literally caught his man and backpedaled in this embrace so far downfield it was probably a PI (or would've been if the receiver didn't work his way inside). But FFS guys, this really wouldn't be an issue if everyone wasn't trying to cheat. If the receivers were really trying to get open they could've used their hands to swim past the D. If the outside FSU defender wasn't trying to play illegal defense he could've disengaged and went anywhere he wanted. The refs could've just let them play instead of calling the most inexplicable penalty at the most crucial moment. I felt like I was watching a bunch of lobbyists and lawyers out there and it just wasn't fun to see. I mean this isn't a scandal but it's just a loathsome way to play the game. They both cheated, AND the refs suck because of all the cheating going on, they made the rarest call in that situation on coverage that had nothing to do with the actual TD pass and decided the outcome of the game.
To hell with them all.
October 20th, 2014 at 11:38 AM ^
October 20th, 2014 at 12:10 PM ^
When both sides decided to play Lawyerball they had their hands tied, and maybe called the inexplicable offensive PI because they were sick of getting gamed. That makes them technically correct but it wasn't ethical to decide the outcome of a game. It's no wonder Brian Kelly was upset.
My post above was deliberately inconsistent. Every side (FSU, ND, refs) could make an argument, and every argument would be bullshit, because they were ALL dirty. Like I said, it's just the sort of play that makes me hate football. It'll wear off and I'll go back to obsessively covering my Wolverines but I really wish I hadn't seen that play.
October 20th, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^
True, but I think it's pretty clear which side was "more" right than wrong. Just as is the case with many other calls. It was a judgment call made by a guy who saw a clear violation, and I haven't heard anyone other than BK claim otherwise. To say it wasn't a penalty, you must have had two eye patches on during the play.
October 20th, 2014 at 1:18 PM ^
The only person who says there's a "more" wrong is someone with a position to sell. The only thing you get from making that case is a loss of credibility.
You know what refs are obligated to do when both sides cheat? Call every penalty. Except in this case the FSU defender wasn't prevented from going outside because he was fighting for inside leverage all along -- again, Kelly called (and his players executed) the play perfectly -- if the refs called fairly then ND wins. The only way it's offensive PI is if the FSU defender tries to fight outside, but in that case the inside receiver breaks open. That's the key. The inside receiver was his man. The "blown" coverage was not the defender playing man, but the fact that FSU had no one covering the outside receiver at all, requiring the slot defender to hypothetically move outside to cover the out, and THAT is how the refs determined it was offensive PI. That's. . . inexplicable. How the hell did the refs decide a guy playing MAN coverage wanted to cover an out route he wasn't even aligned for?? When Kelly saw that he probably felt like a kid in a toy store, expecting he had either a TD or a defensive PI to choose from and happily decline the PI to get the W AND look good doing it. If you consider what Kelly was thinking per above, offensive PI was a shocking outcome. That's why he was upset.
But again again -- this play was drawn up specifically to exploit the refs, to blatantly use them to ND's advantage, and THAT was obvious. That's what eveyone's really saying here, and I agree. If I was a ref I'd be pissed, so I'm inclined to believe they called offensive PI because they saw what ND was doing and -- despite its legality due to FSU botching its coverage AND playing man -- it pissed them off. Now in principle anger is never a justification for arbitration so technically ND was robbed, but since they intended to cheat all along I can't say I'm sympathetic. Just don't try to make any sort of "who's more wrong" argument because that's infinitely subjective.
October 20th, 2014 at 1:13 PM ^
Ed. technically incorrect since the FSU guy wasn't even covering the out route, but correct in determining what the receiver was trying to do.
I know it's confusing, but that's kind of why I advocate ethics in the first place. The benefit of fair play is that you don't have to second-guess everyone.
October 20th, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^
I disagree about the FSU cornerback. Contact off the line of scrimmage is allowed.
They may not have been trying to do the right thing, but penalties in football are not based on the playbook. If a defensive end with C-gap responsibilities dips into the B-gap, that doesn't mean he can't be illegally held or chop-blocked. The rules still apply, whether defenders are doing the right thing or not.
October 20th, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^
October 20th, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^
Impeding the route five yards downfield, no. Because while the receiver was blocking him, in the defender's context the guy is running a route so you can't just catch the guy and stay in his way that far downfield regardless of what you think he's doing. That's illegal. If the defender really wanted to cover the out route he could've just went there, or at least tried and draw a real offensive PI. Instead, the FSU defender was trying to maintain inside leverage (thinking he's jamming a route downfield) when the receiver was trying to keep him inside the whole time. Kelly's argument is technically correct. For there to be offensive PI there has to be some sort of effort to go outside.
That said it's shamelessly disingenuous because Kelly coached his inside receivers to gain inside leverage all along. He never intended to be an innocent victim here. They were both illegally fighting for the same spot. It's almost like they were dancing. The two guys trying to out-cheat each other was so unsportsmanlike it was almost comical if it wasn't so depressing.
I don't really care about the offensive PI call itself (technically it was incorrect but it's also as blatant as it gets), but there's no claiming the moral high ground here because there is none.
October 20th, 2014 at 11:57 AM ^
I don't disagree with what you're saying, EXCEPT, that it is the official's job to determine intent. In this case, ND made it crystal clear what the intent was by assuming a blocking position on a db, and driving him further into the end zone. That is patently obvious. That together with the effectiveness of the block (no one within 20 miles) made it an obvious call.
October 20th, 2014 at 12:49 PM ^
Every intent was dirty. A bunch of guys were all coached to cheat and now we're having arguments over who cheated better. I'm upset but only because it was really bad football in what will probably turn out to be a very important game. The refs could've done anything and it just gives lawyerballers shit to argue over.
Here's a brilliant idea -- why not just play some damn football and let skill decide the outcome?
October 20th, 2014 at 12:56 PM ^
I think you'll be waiting a long, long time. Even longer if stuff that blatant doesn't get called.
October 20th, 2014 at 2:08 PM ^
No disagreement there.
sigh. . .
October 20th, 2014 at 10:33 AM ^
Always makes me feel good when I have a chance to say that.
October 20th, 2014 at 12:29 PM ^
October 20th, 2014 at 12:30 PM ^
All the receivers had to do was look back at Gholston and "accidently" run into the DB. When they extend their arms and block the DBs, it's an easy OPI call.
October 20th, 2014 at 12:55 PM ^
So.... Kelly is sour grapes sticking up for his team. What does that make Hoke and 99% of this board after the Rutgers pass-nopass call? (In case you wondered I was for the completed pass)
October 20th, 2014 at 1:05 PM ^
Why are you here?
October 20th, 2014 at 2:14 PM ^
So.....in the current thread, we are discussing a legitimate (if erroneously underused) OPI call and you're defending a HC who is pandering to his alumni/fan base. Just so I'm clear.
Meanwhile, w/r/t Rutgers, the officials made an actual mistake by calling a pass INC after the WR maintained possession while taking two steps but touched the ball OB while fallling. I was upset about the impact of that miscall, but mostly pissed about losing to Rutgers. Pretty sure you could find some folks here who share this sentiment.
October 20th, 2014 at 1:08 PM ^
Nobody expects the ACC officials to change OPI call. But same back judge who threw flag called this an INT. pic.twitter.com/pyFOyMION1
— Keith Arnold (@KeithArnold) October 20, 2014October 20th, 2014 at 1:13 PM ^
Why don't you go to elevenwarriors and post on their board since Notre Dame actually has them on a future schedule.
October 20th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
Because I love you guys.
October 20th, 2014 at 1:25 PM ^
Just goes to show the value of a good QB. Gholston is an elite talent, and Kelly knows how to get his receivers to pick play opposing CBs. Solid combination. I like Gholston and would definitely be rooting for ND if they weren't ND.
October 20th, 2014 at 1:13 PM ^
October 20th, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^
Their first or second TD was also on a receiver rub play where one receiver basically picked the CB. Odds Nuss or Hoke would be clever enough to take the rules to the limit? None.
October 20th, 2014 at 1:39 PM ^
October 20th, 2014 at 2:01 PM ^
"We don't coach illegal plays."
He said it. Must be true. Because he said it.
October 20th, 2014 at 2:05 PM ^
It'll be interesting to see how the play is run next time. If it's run differently then he's admitting it was illegal.