The maddening part about this is how easy it seems in concept and how devastating it is to a defense. This is has to be something we could easily run out of our base set using Gallon in the role of Austin. I really like the optionality there with that outside wheel. Craziest line in the story is that it takes Holgo three (!) days to install his offense. As always, great stuff from Chris Brown
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/38649/chris-brown-wvu
"Easy?"
He can't be judged for five
He can't be judged for five years? "Sorry, but it doesn't work that way in football."
Not that it works for anyone
Not that it works for anyone in football in this day and age, but it especially doesn't work for coordinators. Zook got an extra year (two?) tacked on for cleaning house within his staff, RR went through DC's like most people go through running shoes, and does anyone remember thinking English should be given five years after September of 2007?
I know at this point he has a contract, but the investment in a coordinator is fairly small (unless you happen to be Kirby Smart or Greg Mattison, and Smart is a fairly small investment compared to Saban), so their job security isn't close to what a head coach gets. Firing a head coach is a very traumatic experience for a program, firing a coordinator is nothing like that.
Go Blue!
This isn't 1985 anymore, 5
This isn't 1985 anymore, 5 years and a coach will be down the road. Love Bo but his philosophy on that is outdated
(No subject)
it's still right, how many
it's still right, how many times do people talk about how once hoke gets his players, or the talent drought when coach carr left. Yeah now people get fired if they dont perform in like 3 years and then the next guy comes in and has to work with those recruits.
you can't really judge coaches on such a short period because they have to adjust to the players. coordinators can't magically coach players to run the spread if they have coached the west coast all their lives just like how running a 3-4 vs a 4-3 is a difficult transition. You need different players for different schemes and those players need time to develop because they are still young and growing. fans just don't care about the transitions anymore they just want to win now and win big which is a shame because coaches are constatly being put on the "hot seat"
Success with any system is a
Success with any system is a lot easier with first round draft picks at QB and WR.
Bit of a chicken-and-egg thing here
Is the system running well because Geno Smith might be a first rounder, or is Geno Smith a potential first rounder because Holgerson's system is freakin sweet?
There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter.
I really think Geno Smith is
I really think Geno Smith is the real deal. Not only does he make the throws that he NEEDS to make (wide open ninjas,) but he also has made some breath-takingly perfect throws this season.
I'm pretty sure he has more TDs than INTs on the season, that is patently absurd.
ALL ABOARD THE A-TRAIN!!!!!
" ~ Herm "
On that same note during his
On that same note during his Ok St days ZaC Robinson put up pretty solid numbers as well. Weeden while not fully under Holgerson put up great numbers as well in that system.
I think Holgerson is a very good coach but also think he is in the right conference for his offense to flourish.
That should, of course, be
That should, of course, be more TDs than incompletions, which he almost has ... 20 TDs, 28 incompletions (on 169 passes). Against Baylor he did have more TDs than incompletions (8:6).
What's further impressive is that he's not just throwing screens and stick routes. He's hitting guys 20 - 30 yards downfield right in the hands.
WVU Baylor game
Looks like WVU will fit perfectly in the Big XII. A lot of offense, and no defense.
I can only continue to reference the fact that I live in an onion factory.
Five years
I realize that I will be negged, etc., but Borges has never lasted five years at any place, and his offenses have generally (note my use of the modifier, though I realize that this will still lead to vitriol) regressed during his tenures at various places.
And while I will be further negged, etc., for anyone who has watched West Virginia, Baylor, etc. (amazing the success of the Leach coaching tree) recently, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to see the advantage of Michigan trying to win on a national level with Borges's WCO in modern college football.
hmmm
Alabama disagrees. And LSU. and USC.
....except that none of those
....except that none of those teams really run the West Coast Offense
If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?
Talent, etc.
Is LSU's offense really something to emulate? And yes, USC and Alabama have had success using old school, pro-style offense approaches. Do you think we will be able to consistently recruit at Michigan the level of talent of the top two programs in the country -- one located in Los Angeles and the dominant program in Southern California and the other a traditional power in the South, with multiple recent national championships, a coach who talks about how his AD, and the school president, etc., etc. recruit, and that will medically redshirt any four star talent that doesn't pan out? I would rather adopt an offense that is not so dependent on having a top 3 recruiting class year in and year out.
I would neg you for this
Not because I necessarily disagree with anything you said, but because I can't stand the psuedo courageous "I know I'm going to get negged for this, but..." schtick. If you have a point to make, make it. Don't try to put yourself in a preemptive victim role to make your dissenters look like bullies.
This is the play we threw
This is the route combo we threw Funchess open with against a couple times against Air Force. As Chris points out, it's crazy common. Al definitely has this in his playbook, in numerous different sets. Don't quote me on this but I think we even ran it off of jet motion against VT...but it didn't go well. Like everything else offense-related in that game.
The reason it worked so well against Baylor is that their defense is not very good. Run that play against Bama and they'll defend it just fine. In the first screencap, the Baylor D is probably playing some version of Quarters, or maybe C3. Either of those has answers for that play call. There's no defender in a bind there. There's a flat defender to play force/contain jet, 6 in the box vs. 5 OL and the RB (plus possibly the other safety if they're in quarters). That's a sound defense that responded to a common route combo very poorly.
...the Canadians make up for it with their emotion and classic ice-dancing skill.
Did Holgo say how long it
Did Holgo say how long it takes him to install a defense?
Give it to Wheatley!
He'll let you know when he
He'll let you know when he gets to it.
This has nothing to do with Michigan football.
Interesting stuff...
...and I'm sure that Holgorsen is a great offensive mind, but I watched a lot of that game, and Baylor's defense was awful.
It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra
While watching this game
While watching this game Saturday i just could not beieve what I was seeing. I was shocked that Baylor just couldn't find a way to stop the West Virginia passing attack. Geno Smith's numbers for the game looked like they were straight out of NCAA football. I have a feeling as the season goes on defenses will start to realize how to stop this offensive scheme and WVU's title hopes will be gone.
Halgorsen offense
Has never been ranked lower than top 10-15 in his time as the OC or HC. They are pretty close to impossible to stop. I have a hard time seeing WVU slowing down especially when Geno Smith is in the zone
Impossible
Impossible to stop, yeah in a way. They will get theirs. The offense will definitely be in the top 15 at the end of the year. But they only beat Maryland 31-21 last week. They're not going to score 70 every week.
"I have a dream that someday Michigan will not have freshmen on the field. That day is 2013 at the earliest." - Brian, Defense vs MSU UFR 2011
I wish we could have grabbed
I wish we could have grabbed Eugene Smith when he was coming out of Miramar.
When RR was here I heard an
When RR was here I heard an interesting point that spread offenses lead to weak or less physical defenses because theyre playing "basketball on grass" instead of manball. Does anyone think that spread type offenses have a lot harder time fielding physical defenses due to practices ? Is there any data out there to back it up ?
Urban
Urban had some sick defenses down at Florida in his day.
For today, goodbye. For tomorrow, good luck. And forever, Go Blue.
Yeah Florida is one that
Yeah Florida is one that popped in my head as well. I just dont understand football enough to really get the legitimate reasons why all schools arent running the spread. The offense relies too much on one position ? It only works against young or weak defenses ? It clearly worked against Carr, so I never understood why people said it wouldnt work in the big10, but at the sme time if the spread makes it difficult to field a "tough" defense and theres data to prove it then I guess i could understand. Its always bothered me that there are two schools of thought regarding offense and both are very stubborn, yet theres no clear data which side is actually more effective. Is it really true if you can get top recruits (pro prospects) theyre more effective in a pro style offense ? I cant understand why top pro style recruits wouldnt be even better in a spread ? Sorry for all the questions.- just never really got a lot of this... I wish there was an mgoblog investigation on it, haha
I think it depends on the
I think it depends on the team. As someone else mentioned, Florida did just fine when Meyer was there. Oregon has the #52 total defense and the #33 scoring defense. Oklahoma had the #40 total defense and #14 scoring defense in 2011.
Scoring quickly leads to more possessions (and scoring opportunities) for the other team, but that doesn't necessarily mean the defense is worse.
It's pretty clear that
It's pretty clear that there's a correlation between quick-scoring spread offenses and poor defensive numbers. Florida under Urbz is the only exception to this that I can think of. Oregon isn't exactly overwhelming, but they get the job done. I think it's safe to say after Saturday that WVU has a GERG-level defense. This year's WVU and the defenses at Michigan under RR would be horrible no matter what was happening on the other side of the ball.
Special Teams means special times!
I wonder if there's a correlation...
between teams that run up-tempo spread offenses and an inability to recruit at an elite level. Florida would be an exception, and it looks like ND would too (if they had the ability to score this season), but there aren't a ton of them out there.
It seems like the sample size of teams capable of recruiting top end talent and teams running those up-tempo spreads is really low. Also, it seems like it's easier to scheme your way into a good offense than into a good defense. Does anyone who knows more than I do have an opinion on that? It seems like offenses can use more "system players" (RR slot ninjas) and get elite results, where on defense you just need freak athletes who can understand assignments really well.
Go Blue!
Are you trying to imply that Bogres should shelve his entire system and install Holgorson's system in "three (!) days?"
Sorry, but it doesn't work that way in football. I still agree with Bo's belief that a coach needs five years to fully install his own system and personnel. AFAIC, Borges can't really be judged until he has had five years to recruit players with the skill sets he wants for his system.