OT - Runner steals 1st Base for First Time in a Century
I'm sure many of you have seen this already, but if you haven't, it is one of the craziest baseball plays I have ever seen.
I'm not sure what just happened there.
Reminds me a little bit of that crazy CFL play a couple years back. Had no clue what was going on there either.
Damn Canadians ruining football.
I get pretty upset with some of the Canadian jokes on this board but if there is one thing I can't get upset about it's American's making fun of the CFL. That is the most ridiculous game ever played. In all my years I have never been able to watch a single game, and I love football. The sport the CFL plays though...that's not football. I don't know what it is...but it isn't football.
Ummm...WTF is that sh*t?
Pretty simple explanation.
In canadian football there is no such thing as a touchback. Any time the ball is kicked into the endzone the receiving team has to advance it out past their own goaline or else the kicking team is awarded 1 point. This is commonly done by running the ball out but can also be done by kicking the ball out. This is a rule that is inherited from the rugby origins of football. Also of note, any player may punt the ball at anytime but the kicking team may not touch the ball until the receiving team touches it.
So in this scenario with the game tied the missed field goal goes into the endzone and the receiving team loses the game if they don't advance it out of the endzone so they elect to kick it out. The original kicking team then elects to kick it back into the enzone to try to score the single and win the game. This goes back and forth and makes for some crazy end of game antics.
"owt"?
April 22nd, 2013 at 11:24 PM ^
Is this what we are doing to Europeans? My brain itches........
So they both got tagged..but he wasn't out..so then he crossed over the base runner behind him and went to 1st?......what
but they were both on the base so the tag doesn't count. It has been a while since I played organized baseball, but I am wondering why the guy who gets to second gets called out. He gets to the bag and stays there. If anyone should be called out for a baserunning infraction it should be the guy who arrives there after I would think. Then he gets up and runs to first base...I don't think you can pass a runner on the bases, so I wouldn't think you are able to retreat beyond another runner either...I would say he is the guy who should have been called out and the guy who got to second should have been safe.Actually...I more confused now than ever.
The funy thing is the guy then gets thrown out at second. That was some of the worse baserunning I have ever seen.
Helpful summary, thanks.
I will make it simple..Segura is an idiot
When he was trying to get back to 2nd base (from 1st that is) he was thrown out. It was initially ruled a caught stealing, but it was later changed because "you can't steal what you own".
You desrve more than a simple plus 5 for unravelling that circus in a way that people could understand. Thanks!
Cubs tagged him again when he stepped off second after Braun was tagged and called out. Baseball needs instant replay
Oh come on. This is a crazy play. Yeah, it looked like he was off the bag on the second tag (though I cannot tell 100%. Maybe 95%). But, that's what you take out of this? It was a crazy, fun play that only happens in baseball.
Of all calls to bring up instant replay (oh, I don't know Armando Gallaraga comes to mind) why this one?
But the guy is right. He noticed something that everyone else is missing, and is right. He points it out, and someone moderates his post as "overrated". The opinion about replay is up for debate, but the guy pointing out that Segura should have been out is spot-on.
The Cubs have been confused since 1908.
Herman "Germany" Schaefer of the Detroit Tigers did something like this back in 1908. The story goes that he was on first while another man was on third. The Tigers wanted to steal home by baiting the catcher to throw out a stealing Schaefer. Apparently when they tried this, the catcher held onto the ball, allowing Schaefer to steal second. However, the Tigers wanted to try this again. So naturally Schaefer stole first, then tried to steal second again. Unfortanatley that catcher held on to the ball on all three attempts.
Right. Which is why Segura should have been out. There were two blown calls: first, when Segura was tagged the second time (after stepping off second base); second, when Segura stood on first after Braun was called out. You cannot run the bases backwards in MLB.
You are allowed to run the bases backward, as long as you do not do it for the wrong reason. The baseball rules state that a runner may not run the bases backwards to confuse the defense or to "make a mockery of the game."
Segura did not run backwards for either reason--he did it because he was confused--so there was nothing illegal about what he did.
April 22nd, 2013 at 10:40 PM ^
Official Rules: 7.00 The Runner
7.01
A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base.
Rule 7.01 Comment: If a runner legally acquires title to a base, and the pitcher assumes his pitching position, the runner may not return to a previously occupied base.
-In this instance the pitcher had the ball when the runner was on second base. During the following play he went back to first. According to the rules he is not allowed to do so. The rules are posted on MLB.com. http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/runner_7.jsp
April 22nd, 2013 at 10:55 PM ^
Correct. Once he took second base and play was stopped, Segura could not return to first.
April 22nd, 2013 at 10:58 PM ^
My bad--I made a rookie mistake and I didn't watch the video. I read the description on this thread, and for some reason I thought all of Segura's movement was on a single play (which would have been legal). You are right that 7.01 (comment) applies here.
I was assuming that it was one play, and I was applying 7.08(i) (comment). My mistake.
April 22nd, 2013 at 10:47 PM ^
Just looked up the rule and you're exactly right that purpose is key--the runner is out if "he runs the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game" and it explicitly clarifies that being confused is a valid reason for running bases backwards (though the example it gives is more common: if the runner thinks a ball was caught and is returning to the starting base).
April 22nd, 2013 at 10:56 PM ^
proves me wrong--I was reading from 7.08 which seems to allow it (well, really, explicitly not disallow it), but as UPMichigan points out 7.01 seems to forbid it. Well done!
April 22nd, 2013 at 10:58 PM ^
No. Once the runner takes second base and the play is over, he cannot later return to first base.
Segura stole second. Play over. Segura cannot return to first.
April 22nd, 2013 at 11:04 PM ^
You're right. The "play over" makes all the difference in the world. What would have been permitted by his confusion if it had all happened at once was instead against the rules, because it happened on two separate plays.
Interesting that the rule that applies (7.01 (comment)) does not specify what happens to the runner who tries a retrograde advance. I would assume that he simply would not have any right to first base and therefore should have been called out when tagged even though he was standing on first.
You could umpire your whole life and never see that.
I was shocked to see the Cubs were actually on the opposing side of this thing and not the offending party.
This is a comparatively anicent Internet submission (2002, from the looks of it, but the rules around this haven't changed to my knowledge), but it explains in an entertaining way the 23 way that you can legally get to first base along with some of the background on "stealing first" and why it is no longer permitted.
(HERE)
It's an old ESPN Magazine link, but the question was answered by baseball historian Eric Enders.
we need replacement umps...
It's hard to believe that it's a dying sport... not really though. With events like this, I weep for my '84 Tigers... the world was so simple then. As for Canadien football, just stick to soccer and hockey... please?
Baseball is doing just fine.
April 23rd, 2013 at 10:31 AM ^
Curling, soccer... Either way.
We suck at soccer.
April 23rd, 2013 at 10:19 AM ^
hilariously, he got caught stealing 2nd to end the inning just a couple pitches later
Len & JD (Cubs broadcast team) were having a field day with it