OT Rubin Carter was falsley tried
Found this interview of Rubin Carter by Juan Williams absolutely fascinating, not because this is a fresh and interesting story, but because this a fresh and interesting interview. This interview should be mandatory watching for young people. Carter had every reason to remain a bitter and angry man, after being wrongly jailed, instead he became this fascinating and interesting individual. After watching this, I am convinced Rubin Carter was wrongly incarcerated. Very interesting and straighforward man. I never had much of an opinion as to Carter's guilt or innoncence, but after watching this, I believe if Carter had actually murdered those people he would own up. Impressive man and well worth an hour of your time
For you that don't know, Carter's case was made famous by Bob Dylan with the song Hurricane. Carter was the #1 contender for the middle weight crown when convicted of his crime in 1966.
Watch this interview you will be glad you did
http://booktv.org/Featured/12265/After+Words+Rubin+Carter+Eye+of+the+Hu…
bob dylan already told you everything you need to know ~35 years ago
And, in true poetic form, fudged many of the details in ways very advantageous to Carter. Not the definitive source in the least.
bob dylan already told you everything you need to know ~35 years ago
they both baldly lied.
The newspapers they went along for the ride.
But isn't why they made a movie about him 10 years ago with Denzel? This news seems as relevant as saying they are coming out with phones without cords in them.
Water wet.
Dead tend to remain dead.
Tressell lies
The story isn't relevant but the interview is fascinating. One of the best interviews I have seen. Take an hour to watch it on this lazy day, it will pass the time until selection sunday starts. Rubin Carter is very candid and gives a different and fresh perspective on some issues.
Carter was actually the #9 contender when he went away. The movie/song takes quite a few liberties.
The evidence against Carter was a lot stronger than the song/movie make it sound.
I'm glad he got out of prison because the rules need to be followed and weren't in his case, but it's not quite so clear that he was innocent.
Even Dylan began to believe he was guilty, and he stopped performing 'Hurricane'
he thought Carter was guilty. I thought he just stopped playing it because he changed direction so much between the end of the second leg of the rolling thunder tour and the more vegasy street legal a year and a half later. I do faintly recall Dylan saying something to the effect of he was innocent when rubin was released(?) in '85 but I could be wrong there.
Yeah, never an actual quote, just a 'word on the street' kind of thing. It was also widely believed that after he actually met him in person, Dylan didn't really care for Carter all that much.
And the famous picture of Carter and Dylan staring at each other through bars was staged. They had to look around the jail for grating of some kind to make it look like Dylan visited Carter in a cell.
Watch the video and you may think different. Carter only addresses his murder conviction for a couple of minutes in the interview, and it is not in the context to exonerate himself, but as an example of a flawed justice system.
whether the justice system was flawed, or whether Carter should be in prison.
I just questioned whether he's innocent. And he's not the most impartial voice in the world on that point.
Overreacted
Thanks for pointing that out Commodore. Carter fought for the belt in 64/65 and got his ass kicked and actually started to pile up some losses when he was convicted.
Don't buy into his current image. The man for his entire life up until the conviction was a selfish deviant who had spent 5 years in prison a few years before for mugging and beating the shit out of old women.
And i think he was involved to some capacity. He lived a complete life of crime and thuggishness, and coupled with the fact that his boxing career was falling apart it makes sense considering his complete lack of character.
He has no true alibi, his car matched that seen at the scene by multiple people and SHELLS were found in his car. The only thing the defense had if I recall was that the police didn't log the shells into the evidence locker until a few days later even though their car was searched in public and the shells were seen at the time of the search by multiple people involved in the investigation. As far as I recall no guns were actually found but that's not uncommon. You don't NEED the firearm itself to prove guilt.
Just because that hipster hack Bob Dylan made a song about him and he reformed himself as a prisoner does not change the fact that he was simply a horrible human being and being involved in something like this is makes sense if you know about his life and how his main source of income (his boxing career) was swiftly coming to an end.
For argument's sake lets say he was guilty. Carter then served plenty of time in prison and came out a reformed person. Is that not the ultimate goal of incarceration?
No seriously. Guilt and Innocence are always abstractions. You are innocent here until found guilty in a fair trial by a jury of your peers. He was released, i believe, because his trial was majorly flawed. That he was a thug and had a criminal record is not the point. We have these laws of presumed innocence, etc., to protect the wrongly accused. More guilty get off, then innocent get incarcerated, hopefully.
As to your comment regarding Bob Dylan, you can't be serious. Some would argue that he was the greatest balladeer of our time. A giant amoungst us. I guess you needed to be there.
I'm not saying because of how he lived his life he didn't deserve a fair trial for the accused crime. If that's how my post came out it wasn't the intent. I brought those things up as a counter point to the common argument of, "oh rubin he seems like such an ethical and upright man!" when in reality he WAS the kind of person who would be involved in this to some sort of capacity. Most people, like the thread starter, base their opinion on his innocence without knowing ANYTHING about the man or the case just purely on Rubins reformed nature and that completely innaccurate movie.
I firmly believe he was released based on his reformed nature. Don't forget he wasn't just convicted but his conviction was upheld in a new trial like 10 years later. Was the original trial flawed? Yes indeed, but flawed enough to where guilt couldn't be proved? Two different and independent juries didn't think so.
and on Dylan... I cannot stand his music. "Voice of a generation" mumbo jumbo or not the man is highly overrated imo. But different strokes for different folks. :)
enough
Negged entirely for negative Dylan comment.
How easy would it have been to plant a shell and a gun in their car? In that era, African-Americans were often railroaded with planted "evidence."
Since the supposed reason for incarceration is rehabilitation, the Carter case is a case of "all's well that ends well." He has been a decent citizen since getting out of prison. Whether he is innocent or guilty is really moot at this point. He is no longer a threat to society either way.
We're not talking about Rubin Carter being a threat to society right now or some hypothetical situation where someone wishes to believe evidence was planted. There is NO evidence of manipulation of the evidence or down right planting, but because you claim it as the climate of the era evidence like this should be meaningless? -_^ I hope thats not what you're implying.
And rehabilitation isn't the only reason for incarceration. It's also punishment for the convicted and to protect society from them. While Rubin is a great example of someone who can truly change their character and moral outlook on life, it in no way some how validates the conspiracy theories about his innocence.
Go read "The Other Side of the Story " by Cal Deal. Then tell me if you think Carters still innocent.
this
His trial was BS, but Rubin Carter is still a murderer, imo.
This guy is a kook...I didnt make it past the first 10 minutes of that junk. He is delusional.
Hey now! Juan had a little trouble keeping him on track, but give him a break he is a 74 year old former pugulist. I thought he was quite lucid when he could keep his focus. Your assignment is to go back and watch the last 50 minutes.