OT- Roger Goodell
Many at ESPN are calling for Goodell to resign over the Ray Rice situation. Unless he lied about not seeing the video footage, I really do not get what he has done that would justiffy him losing his job. I know people have strong opinions on this, am I off base in thinking this is quickly getting out of hand? (Keep in mind, I agree that Rice should have been let go by the Ravens and he should have initially been suspended for at least a year).
September 11th, 2014 at 12:28 AM ^
Well, the AP says Goodell did see the video before...
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FBN_RICE_VIDEO?SITE=AP&SECTION=H…
September 11th, 2014 at 12:33 AM ^
With all due respect, the article does not say that Goodell saw the video. It says that an unnamed source says he sent the video to the offices of the NFL and he has no idea if Goodell saw it.
September 11th, 2014 at 12:41 AM ^
Yeah, I was thinking about crossing the "Goodell saw the video" part and write "someone in the NFL" but I was kinda lazy, sorry.
September 11th, 2014 at 12:49 AM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 12:55 AM ^
Is there a possible third option? Maybe, even though somesone sent the video to the NFL, he didn't see it and wasn't aware of it? We don't know. That's all I'm saying. Before people ruin a guy's life, I think all the facts should be on the table.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:10 AM ^
And there is just no way in hell that he didn't know that video existed. Months ago Chris Mortensen accurately reported some very specific details from that video. At least 20 casino employees saw it. All major law enforcement agencies involved saw it. If Goodell honestly didn't realize the video existed, then he should be out of a job anyway for absurd incompetence.
There is just no possible way that these events could have unfolded in which Goodell doesn't end up looking like a guy who isn't fit to be commissioner of the NFL. If he saw the video, he should go. If he knew the video existed and opted to interview Ray Rice and his fiance instead of watching the video, he should go. And if he was seriously dumb enough to not even realize that the video existed when it's becoming increasingly clear that everyone around him did, he needs to go.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:15 AM ^
If he lied about seeing the video, I agree he can't stay. Why, however, does he have to go if any of the other stuff you said is true? I don't get it. Are you concerned that he is just not up to snuff to perform the day to day operations of the NFL or is it just to make everyone feel better? Why isn't enough that he flubbed the investgiation, took massive heat, and then instituted the harshest domestic violence policy in the history of sports? What's wrong with that?
September 11th, 2014 at 1:33 AM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 8:26 AM ^
Sometimes a CEO has to step down just to help the organization move past a shit storm like this one.
September 11th, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^
I don't understand the NFL's disciplinary policy or process, but if it as as you suggest I'm thinking some overseeing group will need to give accountability to the commissioner and his decisions.
September 11th, 2014 at 9:15 AM ^
that all the facts should be on the table. What nonsense. What do you think we're running here? A justice system?
September 11th, 2014 at 8:16 AM ^
ah yeah it does matter. Its nice with how casual people are with other peoples lives and careers.
September 11th, 2014 at 12:28 AM ^
Uh, because Roger Goodell has literally done nothing to make football safer or more respectable despite his self appointed role as "the enforcer."
This goes here:
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/what-does-it-take-to-get-roger-goodel…
September 11th, 2014 at 12:45 AM ^
You should read the article you linked to. Its terrible. Basically, Goodell is somehow responsible for the actions of the tiny minority of those players that are terrible enough to engage in domestic violence? Wasn't it Goodell that just put in the harshest penalties for domestic violence in the history of the leauge? He did that -- per the article -- on August 28 after stating that he flubbed the initial punishment.
And I really don't think anyone can argue that the guy has made the NFL safer for players. In fact, many who post here have bashed him for being too aggressive in taking measures regarding player saftey (i.e., fines, late hits, chaning rules, helmets, and requiring a doctor of the league -- not the team -- to clear players before returning to the game).
September 11th, 2014 at 1:15 AM ^
Why should we praise Goodell for giving an extremely weak punishment and taking his sweet time to do the right thing after he sees that the whole thing isn't blowing over? I don't think it really matters if he saw the tape or not. The issue I have is that he has just screwed up the entire situation and made the NFL look stupid in the process. Goodell is lying about something. I don't really care if he loses his job, but I wouldn't care in any way if he did.
September 11th, 2014 at 2:22 AM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 8:45 AM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 9:14 AM ^
Exactly, there is a reason I call it the National Felon League. I laughed real hard at the "tiny minority" bit, the NFL is loaded with these hgh, roided up thuglife idiots. Did Goodell see the video or not? Who knows, but the fact that the video was sent to the NFl 3 MONTHS ago is enough to not give Goodell a pass on this. Just like the IRS "loosing emails, and hard drives crashing," it's a bs cover up and we all can see right through it.
September 11th, 2014 at 12:29 AM ^
Its ESPN being ESPN, in a hurry to weigh in and cast judgement before the facts present themselves because a sensational story boosts viewership today. There is no interest in reporting real sports news any more. It's all opinion-based content.
September 11th, 2014 at 8:47 AM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 1:13 PM ^
If everyone had to resign for being incompetent or lying based on one instance, more than half the country would be out of a job.
September 11th, 2014 at 3:43 PM ^
But not half the country runs the NFL at an annual clip of something like $40m. I think that kind of money should buy a little more competence.
September 11th, 2014 at 5:00 PM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 12:29 AM ^
Who's saying that?
September 11th, 2014 at 12:57 AM ^
Not one name?
September 11th, 2014 at 1:48 AM ^
Maury Brown at Forbes:
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/roger-goodell-national-organization-…
Keith Olbermann at ESPN:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11504461
NOW (The National Organization for Women):
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/roger-goodell-national-organization-…
September 11th, 2014 at 2:18 AM ^
http://act.weareultraviolet.org/cms/sign/RogerGoodell/
I have also seen a few others, but the point is clear, yes?
September 11th, 2014 at 9:12 AM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^
So "many people at ESPN" turns into one person, Keith Olbermann.
September 11th, 2014 at 5:21 PM ^
And Jason Whitlock
September 11th, 2014 at 12:36 AM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 12:38 AM ^
Goodell has proven over and over again he is a paragon of incompetance. From his seemingly random handling of player discipline to the ref strike, all the way back to 2009 when he said in legal arguments that he believed repeated head trauma had no permanent effect on a person. Rice is only the most recent and damning piece of evidence we have that Roger Goodell has no idea what he's doing.
Even if, somehow, someway he did everything in his power to acquire this video, something that can be seriously questioned if the AP story has even a shred of truth to it, his not seeing it does not give him a free pass on the subject. As he himself once said regarding the Saints bounty case "Ignorance is no excuse"
September 11th, 2014 at 12:52 AM ^
Tough to make the argument that the guy is incompetent. The NFL has never made more money and I believe he has made lots of changes to the game that were needed regarding player saftey and actually addressing head trauma. That he said something else regarding head trauma in a class action that sought billions of dollars is par for the course. He gave an opinion that really has no bearing on anything related to the case and was not presenting himself as an expert.
The larger point is this: I don't really even like the guy. I'm just growingly concerned how easy it is becoming to claim "outrage" and call for peoples' heads even though we don't know half the story.
September 11th, 2014 at 2:21 AM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 4:44 AM ^
Yeah, the NFL was just a bunch of hobos playing backyard ball before Goodell made them rich. Did he actually DO anything to make them richer or simply not get in the way?
September 11th, 2014 at 8:52 AM ^
In this case it is totally justifiable. Either he's grossly incompetent or covering it up. As the CEO if one of the most powerful businesses in the country (basically), that's simply unacceptable.
September 11th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
Goodall has done everything he could to slow down any changes regarding injuries and punishments for "bad" behavior. His role in the class action suit was an embarrassment--if he didn't direct the manipulation of expert testimony, he was responsible for it because he is the effing Commissioner. He has had to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing the right thing. The fact that some changes have been made does not inure to his benefit under those circumstances.
[I even think he has done Rice a bit of a disservice. If Goodall had done the right thing upfront--by suspending him for a year (or at least 8 games)--there would have been much less uproar. And Rice would likely not have been released by the Ravens and/or his career would not be effectively over. Fairer to Janay Palmer too.}
You seem oddly (overly) defensive of Goodall.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^
How do you manipulate expert testimony. Each side hires experts to support their position and the trier of fact decides which one -- if any -- is more credible. I wouldn't expect Goodell to hire an expert that supported the plaintiffs' position in the class action.
September 11th, 2014 at 3:39 PM ^
How do you manipulate expert testimony? Easy. Its done every day in our court system. Experts for hire. Bought testimony. Expert shopping. Any lawyer you know will tell you it is true--to greater and lesser extents. [For the right price, I am pretty sure I could still dredge up an expert to prop up the virtues of cigarettes.]
That the NFL likely did so, I refer you to any number of articles on the issue, including, by way of example and not limitation, the following:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/league-of-denial/questio…
Also, while the NFL certainly didn't want to pay out more than they had to in defending the lawsuit (although that raises another ethical question), Goodell and the league have a bigger responsibility to do the right thing--i.e. protect its players. This is somewhat akin to the responsibility of a prosecutor to do justice and not extract a conviction at any expense. Instead Goodell and the owners took the concussion-denial approach----likely, not because they genuinely believe it but, for the $$.
September 11th, 2014 at 12:37 AM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 12:40 AM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 12:56 AM ^
why it took seeing the video for some people to become so enraged by it. The original video and knowledge that he hit her should have been enough.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:22 AM ^
Even though we knew he had "hit" her, that can still mean a lot of different things. Before the newest video, there was a sort of spectrum of things that could have happened inside that elevator. Maybe he doesn't use much force, but she falls and hits her head on something. Maybe he immediately rushes to her side to make sure she's OK. These wouldn't come close to justifying what happened, but they would have been one hell of a lot better than what we saw.
What we saw in the video is an absolute worst case scenario. After watching the original video, if you had tried to picture the single worst set of events that could have happened in that elevator it would have been pretty close to reality. The video proved that it wasn't an accident, that it wasn't an misjudged use of force, and that there was no remorse.
September 11th, 2014 at 3:24 AM ^
September 11th, 2014 at 10:01 AM ^
The original video and Rice's own admission proved everything you needed to know - a worst case scenario. Rice told the Ravens and the NFL that he knocked out his wife. And, to your point that maybe he rushed to her side . . . the original video destroys that theory. The guy dragged her out of the elevator like a sack of potatoes.
I'm actually a bit upset at the Ravens releasing him and the NFL's new suspension. These actions should have been taken the first time (although, to be fair, the NFL did not have a standard suspension for domestic violence in place). What makes me mad is that the release/additional suspension are just attempts to calm waters with the public. With Rice's admission and the original video, the team and league had everything it needed to justify a stiff penalty, but it chose not to do so.
September 11th, 2014 at 10:44 AM ^
I'm by no means a zealot for the points I made above. I know I personally was stunned when I saw the second video, I had not originally thought that it was going to be that bad. And since I was taken aback by the content of the second video, I don't think it's fair for me to criticize the Ravens or the NFL for taking harsher action after the video came out. The original 2 game suspension was ridiculous, sure, but I probably would have been OK with 6-8 games in the aftermath of the first video. After the second I think it's clear that he can't play in the NFL again this year, if ever.
An interesting question in my mind is why some people (such as yourself) seemed to be ready for the content of the second video, whereas others (such as myself) were taken by surprise. I readily admit that I have no personal experience in witnessing/experiencing domestic violence, so maybe I'm not very good at identifying it. This is a disturbing idea to me, because now I'm forced to wonder if I've ever encountered domestic violence in my personal life and simply didn't recognize it. It's a chilling thought, but if it is the case then I can only hope that this incident will make me a little more aware of the warning signs in the future.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:18 PM ^
If someone gets hit hard enough to be knocked unconscious, it is potentially life threatening. I think that may be one of the reasons some people were ready for the content.
September 11th, 2014 at 1:19 PM ^
So before you saw the elevator video, you were 100% certain the whole thing went down like that?
September 11th, 2014 at 8:26 AM ^
I think it can be partially explained by misogyny. A lot of shit I read on the subject at places like reddit would quickly dismiss it because "she must have done something to deserve" getting hit so hard she got knocked unconscious, or "equal rights, equal lefts." This quickly devolved into highly upvoted revenge fantasies where these impotent clowns would beat the hell out of anyone smaller than them with disproportionate force. Ex. knocking someone out after they throw a drink in your face.
It was pretty obvious to anyone willing to see it that what Rice did in the elevator was very wrong. I mean, maybe if she came at him with a knife, I guess.
September 11th, 2014 at 12:46 AM ^
How about a year long suspenion without pay? I'm sure some charities could do great things with that $44 million check.