Recruiting is the lifeblood of any college. To say that it doesn't matter, is Spartyish. We're not going to get anywhere past a big ten title if we don't recruit well.
OT: Relax it is just recruiting
Just something to lighten the load for people that are stressed already about football recruiting.
It matters to coaches, players, and recruits (and their families).
To the average adult-aged Michigan "fan" who lives and dies with the decision-making process of a 17-year-old, who pays money to get "inside information" about these kids' lives, who try to Facebook friend or Twitter-follow these kids, and who then trash the fuck out of them once they decide to go somewhere else... It's not your lifeblood--it's your creepy obsession.
If it were up to me, the entire industry surrounding recruiting would be stripped away in favor of this being a personal decision for a student-athlete. No one would be doing a hat ceremony if there weren't a fleet of cameras and a million mouthbreathing recruitniks watching with baited breath on ESPNU. The whole thing has become sick.
I agree, but let's not pretend like it's just people victimizing the poor kiddies. They're the ones who schedule the hat ceremonies, pull all sort of stunts, what have you.
The people who give them tons of attention are extremely weird, but for the most part, the kids themselves enjoy being celebrities.
If the recruits don't want the attention, all they have to do is say no. Want to do this interview? No. Want to announce live on our air? No. Want to go to this camp where there's going to be media? No.
Its that simple.
So no college develops lower star players and makes them better?
No college has won a BCS national championship without having one class in the top 10. Sure you can be good, but you can't be the best.
Well sorry to burst your bubble but this program is trying to get back to good. You can't talk about being the best untl you are at least good and the last 2 seasons have been "not good". Missouri is a good example of no top 10 classes and they were a few plays away from a NC appearance. MSU was a few PI in South Bend away from a NC appearance. But frankly right now we are not in a category to even make those discussions - I realize these are ultimate goals but realistic people see we need to be good before great.
Sparty just won a Rose Bowl. We recruit much more highly rated classes than them.
Honestly, sometimes it feels to me like there is a good chunk of this fanbase that cares more about 'crootin rankings than they do in-season poll rankings. Sparty just punked these people, and they're still twitter-bashing high school kids.
and they did it with the #17, #30, #31, #41 and #40 classes over the past five years, according to Rivals.
Sparty won the Rose Bowl and has two conference titles. I'd rather be nationally dominant and we have seen although many don't like to hear it recruiting studs + coaching equals dominance. If you're ok with never winning a national title again then by all means Hoke should offer everyone.
Do you even read what you're responding to?
Yes. The article was funny.
So pointing out that MSU has had some very successful seasons with low-ranked recruiting classes = being OK with Michigan never winning a national title again?
And how close did we get to another national title with all those highly ranked recruits we had while Lloyd was here? ONE TIME after 1997 we had a chance to make the national title game but lost The Game and then got pantsed by USC in the Rose Bowl. In fact, we've been pantsed in the Rose Bowl every time since...1997! Why was Sparty able to win it?
In conclusion, elite coaching matters more than elite recruits.
So the solution to this is to stop recruiting 4/5 stars? I'd think we'd want to up our recruiting and up our coaching if Hoke doesn't work out. Alabama didn't get back on top by offering UAB recruits who wanted to play for Bama.
Good lord, literally no one is saying that.
Can you read?
MSU has been successful for them. I'm looking for Michigan to absolutely dominate nationally. 1 Rose bowl and 2 big ten titles in 7 years won't cut it.
So you're saying we underachieved during Lloyd Carr's tenure correct?
They would have beaten FSU if given the chance.
Well, after a couple top recruiting classes, we are neither big champs not nationally dominant.
I would argue the players that were the heart of their team this year were in recruiting classes that at least equaled ours in the same years. Maybe in terms of stars we had a small edge, but in terms of building a complete team and not having gapping holes at multiple positions they definitely did a good job.
I take your point that you need to develop the guys you recruit, something they've done well, but recruiting does matter and this narrative that Sparty won with a team of castaway scrubs just isn't the whole truth.
Exactly, football recruiting is an ugly business between all colleges. I wish it weren't this way, but it is what it is. We need a team filled with mostly 4 and 5 stars like Alabama and FSU have unless you all are content with never winning a national title. Most of the people in this thread seem to think getting a shit load of 2 star MAC offers that really love Michigan is the way to go.
You are pretty much on with that.. i posted below about how they had more 4 star players on their team from 09-11 than we did..
We clearly have more 4 and 5 star kids now that are either fresh, soph, or RS fresh.. but in terms of Upper classmen from those years they def had the edge the last few years
and from the 09-11 recruiting classes MSU actually had more 4 star players playing on their roster than us..
Shows how much attrition we had from the majority of RR classes.. which led to very few talented upper classmen in relation to the depth MSU has sustained by retaining kids in their class
To have that attitude is ridiculous. We as fans and those associated with Michigan want the best to represent this University. Have it be academically or athletically recruiting is a huge part in all ends of this well oiled machine we call Michigan.
If we gave scholarships to those who wanted to play here the most, our team would be terrible. Brady Hoke offers the best. Lloyd Carr offered the best and got a National Championship from getting commitments from bluechip guys like Charles Woodson.
I presume that most kids want to play at a big name school; some are just better at it than others. And honestly, if every school handed out scholarships to kids who wanted it the most, I'm guessing Harvard and Arizona State would probably be the two best schools in all sports, ever.
So would you say Sparty recruits well or not?
Um, I think the point was that while people who actually have a positive effect on it (players, coaches, etc.) definitely should take it seriously, idiots with twitter accounts flaming 16-year-olds should probably bump the brakes on their fandom a bit.
Read the article before you comment.
So the Onion is a fake news site. This "article" is a joke.
You forgot the /s
Do you know what Satire is?????? What rock do you live under?
The sad part is I can see this actually happening in the SEC. Humor does have an element of truth thanks for the laugh. Unrelated note I miss the old Big Ten TV commercials.
So....is everyone missing that this is citing the onion? As critical as this site could be, it's surprising that people aren't clowning people that start threads with a link to the onion.
I feel bad for people who thought this was a real article and non-satirical post by the OP
“Still, I can’t shake the feeling that he wants something from me. Maybe it’s the way he’s always complimenting my intangibles, suggesting I’d be great in a pro-style offense, or telling me I’d look really sharp in crimson and white.” Spear, who did not want to rush to judgment, reportedly plans to run his theory past some of his other friends, specifically Louisiana State University football coach Les Miles when the pair meet for lunch next week.
LOL. I think the Onion pretty did a pretty good job summing up recruiting and the nature of it here. I can only imagine some recruit saying to a coach, "It's funny that you mention all that, because the same thing happened just the other day when Nick Saban visited....it's odd..."
Let's raid EMU's recruiting class. I bet those guys really want to play at Michigan.
Why are you trollin this thread so hard? It's an onion article for crying out loud. This is why we can't have nice things.
We know it's important, it's super addictive, there's a lot of money in it now and dozens of sites require a payment in order to follow their "inside" information. Every blog has a recruiting coordinator. People follow these kids as their jobs. Not that I agree with it, but people getting pissed at these kids when they don't go to their favorite school is inevitable. And, it's sort of hypocritical to publicize these kids, cover their recruitment, celebrate it when they decide to come to your favorite school, get everyone all excited about them, then saying "shame on you" when you get upset when they decommit or go to your rival. Again...totally wrong to ever say anything bad about a kid on twitter or facebook or whatever directly to the kid, but it's completely natural to be upset and vent on a blog or whatever when these kids decommit after all the coverage has built them up for us fans. If people don't like hearing the complaints then they shouldn't publicize the kids in the first place. Both responses are fair and expected...as long as it doesn't go so far as to actually contact a kid directly.
I was just scrolling down to post that one.
It isn't just us. Most fanbases follow crootin' rankings because they kinda want to get better.
Most fanbases also realize that recruiting stars don't automatically equal on-field success. We're finding that out the hard way, and we're still starting a thread every time a five-star so much as gets out of bed in the morning.
It's threads like this one that convince me that 95% of this board is close to illiterate
If crootin' doesn't matter than why has no team won a national championship without a top 10 class? I'll let you spin that how you want. Also, most of our 4/5 stars are frosh/sophs.
For the millionth time in this thread. Of course recruiting matters.
It just doesn't matter in the way most recruitniks think it does.
Go home ThadMattasagoblin, you're drunk.
Funny how you guys get quiet when given facts.
Go find out for me how many players on each national title team were first string and were in the top 250 since recruiting rankings started. You also fail to realize that a lot of times recruiting sites bump players that go to certain schools with large fanbases more than others to increase subscriptions.
"I'm not going to do that because it would take me forever but I can tell you straight up that there's going to be massively more players in the 250 than other teams when it includes Urban at Florida, Saban at Alabama, Les/Saban at LSU, etc." Lol,
ThadMattasagoblin's version of "facts."
Saban's recruiting classes were #10, #1, #1, # 5, # 1, # 1, #1, # 1.
Urban's recruting classes at Forida were # 15, # 2, # 1, # 3, # 11, # 2
Les Miles' recruiting classes were # 4, # 11, # 2, # 6, # 6, # 18, # 6, # 6
Pete Carroll at USC's recruiting classes were # 13, # 3, # 1, # 1, # 1, # 2, # 8, # 4,
Seeing this, it's obvious what we must do to get back to the top.
and develop them up to, you know, 6 or 7 stars?
I'm not going to do that because it would take me forever but I can tell you straight up that there's going to be massively more players in the 250 than other teams when it includes Urban at Florida, Saban at Alabama, Les/Saban at LSU, etc.
I'm not trolling. the OP said recruiting didn't matter. I said that it does and gave facts to back up my claim and then all of the other posters started attacking me so I attacked back.
No, you're basically ignoring anything anybody says to you and smugly responding to everything they're not saying.
Bullshit. You attacked my very first comment.
but Michigan is clearly desparate for attention with this recruiting business. Hoke clearly can't hang on to recruits and he will live to regret the Borges fire. There is no going back now and must live with his decision. Maybe someday he can hope to be as good as Michigan State.
How the hell did an Onion article turn into this shit show??
First, I posted something about recruiting mattering. Others didn't like it and attacked me so I attacked back and that's basically where we're at.
Oh. I guess I have to put it out there.
YOU'RE THE REASON WHY.
You literally just have to watch any national championship game to realize that we need more 4/5 star players. If we don't get them we'll be stuck going to a few Rose Bowls here and there with a few big ten titles mixed in.
I LITERALLY neg banged every comment you made in this thread, and it felt gooooooooooooooood.
Next year Hoke's 2012 class which was very good will be rs sophomores and juniors. If a lot of those guys don't make huge impacts next year, it will be clear to me we have a massive coaching problem and not a talent problem.
Good news is that if we end up having to find another coach next year there will be no reason why he can't jump right in because we will have great talent and depth.
and if we become better next year I'm sure it will be 100 percent coaching. I'm sure Adrian Peterson and Reggie bush were nothing in high school before getting coached up in college. Weird how Lewan went from being a 4 star to a top 15 overall pick. I would have thought that this mostly happened with 2 stars. -UMxWolverined
Yes, because having a first round draft pick every year instead of winning games shows how great our coaching is.
I'm speechless, just speechless. How did that article (It's from the ONION fergodsakes) spawn some of the comments in this thread? This is usually a pretty clever bunch, but we must be having an off night. Holy smokes this was a weird one.
Saban is a real friend to recruits, and he seems to really enjoy having their parents over, too...
I'd up-vote you, but that article isn't even funny...
Alabama went from being very bad to dominant right. I don't know why we should set our goals lower than them.