OT - Radiology Residency at Michigan ?

Submitted by AVPBCI on

I have a friend who finished up at UW - (Madison)  in Radiology and is deciding between Michigan and John  Hopkins for a residency stay.

Any information or knowledge about the hospitals from anybody on here would be most appreciated.  Trying to persuade him to GO Blue over Hopkins ( maybe i am selfish) but any help would be appreciated and your thoughts.

 

Thanks and as always- GO BLUE

MMB 82

February 19th, 2016 at 10:32 AM ^

What else do you need to know?

 

Seriously, though it has been awhile I interviewed at Hopkins for an Anesthesiology Residency position, and after my experience it was the one and only time I ever sent a Letter of Rejection to an institution.

FauxMo

February 19th, 2016 at 10:38 AM ^

If he goes to UM, he will be rich and famous. If he goes to John Hopkins, he will end up unemployed and homeless.

 

Seriously, I am not an expert. But I do know that JHU and UM are two of maybe the 5 best medical colleges in the U.S. This is like picking between a free Ferrari and a free Porsche...hard to go wrong. That said, I've never liked Baltimore, so if living conditions are a major concern, Ann Arbor might be a good selling point.

NeilGoBlue

February 19th, 2016 at 10:44 AM ^

AA is better than Baltimore, but that area of Baltimore is fine. (not up to AA standards but not like the national media makes it out to be)

Other upsides are that you are just a couple hours from philly and NY and 45 minutes (on a good traffic day to DC)

More of a personal preference on location. 

Blue Durham

February 19th, 2016 at 11:02 PM ^

I drive I-95 from Richmond to Philly about 8 times a year. The past 6 years or so the drive between DC and Baltimore has been pretty quick and never 3 hours, and that is during the day. Usually about 45 minutes or less, and almost always driving the speed limit or higher.

Before around 2006 the traffic around the DC beltline and to Baltimore could be really bad, but I haven't experienced that in a long time. And back then the alternative route bypassing DC/Baltimore by going through Annapolis was a little longer distance-wise but always a lot less traffic and less time. Hadn't had to do that for almost a decade.

FrankMurphy

February 19th, 2016 at 5:11 PM ^

Resident physicians, who basically hand over 3-5 years of their life to some health care conglomerate in exchange for a crap salary, are hardly the 1%. When they finish with residency and start making decent money, they have to repay the massive debt that they took on to go to medical school in the first place. 

But you know who are the 1%? Insurance company executives. And you know who profits the most from the inefficiencies in our health care system while the rest of us get screwed? Insurance company executives. And you know whose job it is to collect monthly checks for doing absolutely nothing except being there to help me when I need to see a doctor (which they look for every excuse to get out of)? Insurance company executives.

Also, I'm not a doctor or a health care professional of any kind. I just admire their work and don't like to see them maligned.  

Drbogue

February 19th, 2016 at 8:54 PM ^

Yes, I am the 1%. I didn't have a real salary in my field until the age of 33. 15 years of post high school training with 5 years of engineering, 4 Med school, and 6 residency. Why? So I can fix your face when you drive your motorcycle drunk into a tree. And yes, I have to pay my malpractice so that when you sue me for a scar my lawyer will point out that your brains are no longer leaking out your frontal sinus. Pay your doctors well. We are responsible for saving your life.




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Sllepy81

February 19th, 2016 at 10:46 AM ^

My wife interviewed at UM radiology for residency, she would've gone if they took her. If they have family I would I to Ann Arbor over Baltimore. In the end it's 4 years and maybe a fellowsip, getting a job will be pretty easy either way. My wife passed on her fellowship at VCU due to a top Attending quitting and found a job in a month back home in cali without a fellowship. Tell him not to get starstruck by Hopkins. he will have the same job choices in the end and not have to live in horrible Baltimore if he goes blue.

Sllepy81

February 19th, 2016 at 10:48 AM ^

isn't pick and choose, he has to make a list and match....good luck with that. My wife put vcu like 6 and ended up here, she had UM #1. I bet he ends up back at UW.

KinesiologyNerd

February 19th, 2016 at 10:48 AM ^

I would suggest a better resource for this would be studentdoctor.net specifically their radiology forum. There's waaaaay more to it than "they're both great hospitals!" and SDN will have the gory details. Being a great school doesn't always make it a great residency.

MGoStretch

February 19th, 2016 at 10:53 AM ^

You mentioned your pal has already finished a radiology residency, do you mean he's currently looking for a fellowship at UofM or Hopkins? If so, what subspecialty area is he looking into? Granted, both will be awesome places for fellowship, but there may be some subtle differences if he wants to do interventional radiology compared to peds (or whatever). Both places are excellent and may come down to location preference. Hopkins is bigger and if he wants to eventually end up on the east coast, it may be a good opportunity to build local connections for future career opportunities. If he wants to live in a world class college town, at a world class hospital in Ann Arbor, he'll probably land on his feet there too :) nice problem to have!

Edit: studentdoctor.net is a great resource, go there :)

Otm_Shank

February 19th, 2016 at 10:57 AM ^

My wife is a fellow in the radiology department. Is your friend applying for residency or fellowship? If fellowship, do you know what specialty they are applying for? Like others have mentioned, Michigan and Hopkins are both world class institutions but there may be subtle differences depending on what your friend is looking to do.




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

mo1997

February 19th, 2016 at 10:58 AM ^

Either are fine as long as your friend makes sure they have a procedural specialty. Doctors who don't have procedures have about a 10 year lifespan before they are replaced by computer algorithms such as IBMs Watson. Strangely enough, radiologists paved the way for this technology.

Doctors should really be following where money is being invested in the health care field. I graduated from UM's Med school and this is the area that I work on.

KungFury

February 19th, 2016 at 10:59 AM ^

Had a friend interview at John Hopkins and they were not impressed. For starters they were point blank asked about whether they planned on having kids soon which is illegal. Beyond that the people there seemed to work hard but not exactly be happy or enjoy what they were doing. Opposite experiences at UM




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

bluebyyou

February 19th, 2016 at 11:00 AM ^

I'm a bit confused...are you talking fellowship or residency?

Everyone in my family but yours truly is a doc but I do work in the field of BME.  Both of my sons are doing residencies at U of M. You are going to get great training at both institutions. The Baltimore/Washington area has a lot to offer in the way of amenities, but that comes at a price.  Housing is very expensive, traffic is awful and you are working in downtown Baltimore which has its own set of problems.  Your coresidents will be living all over the place.

Ann Arbor is much more affordable and if your friend is married and has school concerns due to children, Ann Arbor has a much better school system than what he will find in areas affordable on a resident's wages in the Baltimore suburbs. It is easy to live close to the U of M hospital.  I know for a fact that compensation and benefits at Michigan are better than just about every other teaching hospital in the country due to the House Officers' Association.

Still, Harvard and Hopkins are very impressive names to have on a CV, not that Michigan is slouchy.

kgh10

February 19th, 2016 at 11:16 AM ^

From most residents I have talked to (albeit in a different specialty), you should go where makes you/your family happy, particualrly when your options are as high class as those two institutions.They are both large, world renowned academic centers so I'm not sure what the major differences would be. As others have noted, SDN is the place to go for that nuanced info.

Common questions: Does he like the other residents and attendings in the program? Does he like the structure of the program (research, didactics, call, etc)? What at the requirements/shift lengths/etc? What are the perks of each program (salary, stipend for conferences, etc). Does one provide greater career advancement he chooses to go into a more subspecialized field? Also all the other personal questions about living in each city, family life, also play a role. I doubt he could go wrong regardless of where he goes. If this is for fellowship, this isn't his first rodeo and he probably knows what he's looking for already.

ABOUBENADHEM

February 19th, 2016 at 11:33 AM ^

My neice from Pittsburgh was recently accepted to UM med school - after my telling her how great UM was and getting her to apply there.  (I also told her I wouldn't speak to her again if she applied to OSU).  She really likes UM and AA and it is her top choice, but no scholarship offers from UM.  But, she's waiting to hear still from Penn + she's got high dollar scholarship offers (75%) from Vanderbilt.  I think one of those options might win out over UM.  Can anyone give me something to help convince her UM is the best choice no matter what???  (I'm not in the medical field, so don't know which buttons to push - all I can do is threaten to never talk to her again if she doesn't choose UM)

Happy Gilmore

February 19th, 2016 at 11:48 AM ^

Take the scholarship money. I love AA but medical school is insanely expensive and given the shit salary you get paid in residency, leaving medical school with $50000+ of debt instead of $200000+ (plus at least 8% compound interest starting from the day you take the money to pay tuition) is a huge long term advantage.

MGoLaw16

February 19th, 2016 at 1:24 PM ^

I have heard this a lot with respect to the legal field (hopefully it's true) but I have no sense as to whether it transfers over the the medical field as well. I guess you can argue that a high paying position will eventually make the loan amount matter less, but do you know if medical school prestige is as important as law school prestige for career prospect?




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

ryebreadboy

February 19th, 2016 at 12:03 PM ^

I'm at UM in residency right now. Take the scholarship money, like Happy Gilmore said. Where you do Med school has no bearing on your residency chances given equal board scores (caveat being to stay away from the Caribbean, and - to a lesser extent - DO schools if you want to do an MD residency). I love M and think they have a great Med school, but it's not worth the 300k in debt if you don't have to incur it.

That said, if you're independently wealthy and the bills don't matter, M interviews all their grads for residency spots if so desired, and has top ten residencies in multiple fields (I think there was a US News article from last year substantiating that). If your niece knows what she wants to do, that may be persuasive. There's also a ton of research opportunities and virtually every subspecialty represented which adds to elective choices for third and fourth year. You can also get student football tickets, which may be the best thing.




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Drbogue

February 19th, 2016 at 8:46 PM ^

True if you want a residency in primary care. Not so if you are looking to match into plastic surgery, dermatology, or other competitive field. Hell, the head of my surgical specialty at UM made a phone call and basically secured my residency spot. Where you go to medical school absolutely matters as to whether you get interviews or even match in certain specialties. Remember that surgical specialties are very small circles of people in the grand scheme and when a well known doc vouches for you, it can mean the difference between matching in plastic surgery versus having to go into general surgery. Of course if you are going into a field such as plastics or derm, don't worry about the student debt. It becomes fairly insignificant. Primary care? Then I agree with looking at scholarships.




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

taistreetsmyhero

February 19th, 2016 at 9:46 PM ^

It really just comes down to board scores, your letters of rec, and where vsas puts you for your aways. I'm at Wayne right now, and aside from dermatology (Wayne has only matched within Michigan the last 5 years), they match just about anywhere in the country. Neurosurgery and orthopedic surgery have matches at several very prestigious residency programs. Plus, there's the confounding variable that many people who go to Wayne want to stay instate




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Drbogue

February 19th, 2016 at 10:32 PM ^

You obviously haven't gone through residency interviews/applications or the match. Let me know how you feel after someone with a 240 on step 1 to your 260 gets an interview at NYU because his chairman is friends with the program director. The reality is that medical school is similar to law school I'm so many respects - while you would like to believe that it's all fair and about your board scores, it's not. My 2002 UofM Med school class matched 28 (yes 28) people in ophthalmology residencies, 4 in plastic surgery (out of 75 total spots in the country), 5 neurosurgeons, etc, etc. I know of 1 person who ended up not getting into their specialty program. Our match day was filled with smiles and most folks matching into the top 3 on their lists. But Michigan is a specialty heavy medical school. Academic medicine is a very small community. Having a letter from Lazar Greenfield saying I received honors in surgery was tantamount to saying I would be a problem free surgical resident - what every program director wants to hear. There was no need to do a 4th year away rotation - you had it all right at U of M. I did do an away rotation to London to be near my fiancée. I was the first US medical student at the Royal Free Hospital in London b/c the chairman of my department made a phone call. That kind of pull and influence makes a difference. The reality is that people only care about the last place you trained. Michigan medical students at regarded as extremely smart and hard working and program directors want reliable residents that they don't have to worry about. Once you get into residency, very few people care where you went to Med school, but that does not mean that it doesn't influence your ability to get into a program. Your board scores get you past the first cut of applicants, but when faced with filling 30 interview spots, the prestige of the school and connections make a difference. I know this because as administrative chief in my plastic surgery program I sat in on the staff meetings discussing which applicants hot interviews. Blue blood med school programs win out when all else is equal every time.




Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

samsoccer7

February 19th, 2016 at 11:34 AM ^

Former radiology resident, IR fellow, and current practicing interventional radiologist, interviewed at Hopkins for fellowship, didn't apply to Michigan for fellowship b/c their IR isn't as regarded (but as you find out later, doesn't matter anyway when you're looking for jobs). Point blank: go where you're happy and want to eventually live.  If you haven't figured out where you'd like to live later, go where you want to live for residency, and consider places that have a good fellowship in what sub-subspecialty you want to take on.  Hopkins had that old, east coast vibe to it.  You get worked hard but the residency itself isn't that prestigious believe it or not.  The IR fellowship however was/is considered top notch.  Michigan's residency program is very good.  auntminnie.com is a resource for radiology related stuff, better than studentdoctor.

ak47

February 19th, 2016 at 11:36 AM ^

Lol fuck all of you hating on Baltimore.  How many of you have lived there and didn't just watch the Wire or some shit.  I grew up in Baltimore and went to Michigan and while I loved AA if you are picking somewhere to live after college Baltimore is the easy choice, especially if you care about any diversity of experience in your life.  In any case my mother actually works at Hopkins, its a great hospital but it isn't a super friendly atmosphere, though there have been recent efforts to address that.

On the other hand my cousin did his residency at Hopkins and now has three best selling books and recently helped save Jimmy Carter's life so I think it can do a pretty solid job of launching a career.  Good luck to your friend but just felt the need to point out that Baltimore is great and my public school education in the city got me into the honors college at Michigan so everyone can fuck off. 

King Douche Ornery

February 19th, 2016 at 12:01 PM ^

This is a snooty, swmarmy board full of basement-dwelling posers whose only desires are to stroke each other with daily circle jerk threads.

None who ciommented has, in all likelihood, ever set foot in a college classroom or Ann Arbor, let alone Baltimore.

Of course, even while amssing millionsw of sissy points, they're all either PhD's or married to one, or both.

Yeah, right.

Don't be fooled or get angry with a bunch of people who are in no way anything even resembling what they post here.