the back of the OSU program, is to break the back of the 'brotherhood'.
to play football, not to play trumpet
the back of the OSU program, is to break the back of the 'brotherhood'.
is some funny stuff right there. Yessir.
Now I'll have that in my head the rest of the day. Thanks.
In my opinion, had a Michigan player exposed a transgression, we'd turn on him too. Kind of happened with the RR practice fiasco, but not nearly as controversial or destructive.
Still - if it were our team (well, it wouldn't because these allegations are awful), we wouldn't be defending the guy as the apostle of truth and justice. That being said - the one guy who OSU fans should not be angry with is Cicero. That guy tried to help his program and it was the program who destroyed it.
Cicero, the students at The Lantern, and Ray Small have all received at least one death threat.
If you do anything public and controversial you're going to get at least a couple threats. It only takes .00001% of a million fans to make a death threat and there are plenty of people with issues everywhere.
Did the Free Press receive death threats from the practice article? Did people receive death threats from the Ed Martin scandal? Those aren't hypothetical questions. I really don't know.
I do know that if you made a death threat to the president that the Secret Service would show up at your door and put you under so much of a microscope that you'd wish you were just having a colonoscopy instead. So, there's precedent for taking death threats seriously .
Anyway, it's a shame that there isn't some moral leader who has credibility among all the people sending death threats and hate mail who could step up and ask for it to stop. I can't think of who that could be.
In OSU's case, again, it's too bad that there isn't some recognized moral (Christian?) leader, a molder of young men maybe, who could step in and tell people to calm down. Of course, this person would have to have a lot of credibility with the fan base to do this. I bet it would help if he was from Ohio (Youngstown, for example) and coached at OSU at some point. Anyway, I can't think of who that could be, so I understand why no one has come forward and called for civility.
Well, I know Tressel coached at Ohi- OH I SEE WAT U DID THERE!!!
I've been to Ghana.
People who are going to make death threats aren't the type of people who are going to listen to a call for sanity, unfortunately.
In practice, death threats have to be evaluated and some are taken more seriously than others. It's likely the government couldn't investigate all of the threats against the President even if they wanted to do so. In OSU's case, it's likely that the threats are turned over to the FBI for evaluation and the serious ones are investigated.
I still think that a certain former coach could make the tone of the conversation somewhat more civil if he said the right things.
Or apologize and acknowledge that he did anything wrong in the first place
do more than put you under a microscope. They would arrest you. There is a specific law against making threats against the president.
That also underscores my point, I think, in that it shows that the government doesn't just write off death threats as the inevitable actions of "crazy" people...I have a co-worker who received a death threat no too long ago (the situation has since been resolved). While everyone in my office doubted that the guy would go through with it, it was still a little unsettling.
A 13-year-old boy was interrogated at his school by Secret Service agents without his mother's permission after posting a message about Osama Bin Laden on Facebook.
Following the Al Qaeda leader's death, Tacoma schoolboy Vito LaPinta wrote on his Facebook page that President Barack Obama should be be wary of repercussions.
'I was saying how Osama was dead and for Obama to be careful because there could be suicide bombers,' he said.
I'm not sure how 1/10th of a person can make a death threat.
Actually, that would be 10 people, not 1/10th. I take it you aren't Asian?
Maybe it was just those festive fans in Columbus that have me confused as to how people normally converse.
but the guys "exposing" RR were freshmen with quotes taken out of context and ex-players who exaggerated (as evidenced by the NCAA's findings).
Henton may well be exaggerating and TP may have took nothing or the NCAA may not find any evidence. That's fine and Buckeyes should turn on Henton for lying.
We are all going on the assumption that he's being truthful and there are cashed checks to verify his claims. Since he, Cicero, and (it appears Small) all are currently appearing to be truthful.
Buckeyes should be pissed, but at JT and the compliance department.
I can't imagine that TP and this Talbott guy are THAT stupid as to involve the paper trail of checks. God, if they used anything , but cash, they deserve double the punishment, just for being stupid.
Oh, I can definitely imagine TP is that stupid. It's not much of a stretch.
Ok, yeah. Pryor is that stupid, but Talbott seems like a guy who has messed around in dirty dealings quite a bit. Checks? Really, paper, documentable checks? Banks get involved. Just can't be. Come on...
No, Pryor IS that stupid.
From Eleven Warriors:
"The NCAA violations were discovered when the name of the local memorabilia dealer, Dennis Talbott, was seen on checks Pryor was depositing in his personal bank account.
During Pryor’s time at Ohio State, Talbott paid him tens of thousands of dollars to sign Ohio State Buckeye memorabilia. Talbott currently lists a Pryor-signed item for sale on his Ebay sellers account, which is identified by the account name “infickelwetrust.”
No, Pryor IS that stupid.
Why be careful if the system you've operated in has never bothered to care? TP and Talbott would actually have to think that OSU compliance would do something about it for them to cover their tracks. Obviously, they didn't believe that to be the case.
If a crime is commited do you get angry at the person reporting the crime, the wittnesses to the crime that say nothing, the police, or the person committing the crime?
In my opinion, had a Michigan player exposed a transgression, we'd turn on him too. Kind of happened with the RR practice fiasco, but not nearly as controversial or destructive.<
I sort of understand the point you are trying to make and everything, and I presume that you intended no offense, but let's recall the situation a little more clearly.
The "RR practice fiasco" as you term it did not really involve any "whistleblowers" that any of us know of. If Morgan Trent was Rosenberg whistle-blower, he hasn't had the guts to say so. If Justin Boren or his dad, or Ryan Mallet or his dad, were Rosenberg "whistleblowers," they have not had the guts to say so. And the Borens earned all of the shit they have gotten for completely separate ("family values") reasons.
There were two named alleged whistleblowers, but their story is almost completely opposite. Je'Ron Stokes and Brandin Hawthorne were quoted by name by Rosenberg and Snyder (Why? Why quote them, but not anyone else?), but they were clearly misquoted and abused in the process. I'm not aware of anyone in our camp going after them, and the one and only time that I ever saw Rich Rodriguez get choked up (not "crying") was when he was defending his two freshman players, Stokes and Hawthorne, from the despicable abuse that the Free Press inflicted on them.
In a word, what's amazing about the whole Stretchgate episode is that there's never really been any identifiable whistleblowers. You would certainly expect that Rosenberg and Snyder would keep those secrets to their deathbeds. That's what reporters do. But honestly, if people behind the scenes had really been confident about what they had seen, and what large numbers of people had clearly and consistently told to Rosenberg, don't you think that we'd have heard about that by now? In a way, it was all pretty quickly supplanted by the real joint investigation that Michigan and the NCAA conducted. And the current events news leaking out of Columbus just goes to show in yet another small way how totally unlike the two cases -- Michigan and OSU -- are.
much less care about, "Stretchgate," whereas the OSU implosion will reverberate for many years to come.
I know OSU isn't their beat, but I wonder if either Rosenberg or Snyder have offered any opinions expressing their moral outrage about the real scandal going on down in Columbus.
Good question, Don.
Rosenberg - Yes. Snyder - I don't think so.
Rosenberg wasted no time in calling for Tressel's resignation. He said that Tressel and OSU had been guilty of a "coverup of the coverup." As a columnist, that's what he does. Rosenberg sneeringly went out of his way to ask his readers about how proud they are, now, of Lloyd Carr's record. No word about how "major" OSU's violations were, and about how "minor" Michigan's violations were. Rosenberg is trapped; he can't ever say to anybody, with a straight face, that Michigan's situation was comparatively trivial. Rosenberg will never be able to make that observation as long as he lives, alghough I did hear him in a brief interview on WDET-FM saying that the two cases were "apples and oranges."
Snyder rarely does opinion writing, and I haven't heard of him opining on this.
Any Michigan fan with a half a brain would celebrate a whisteblower. Notice how far back the Fab5 thing set back the basketball program and the blackeyes we took when players lied. I'd rather have a guy out us, get hit with a single major and move on.
Five guys getting Tats wouldn't have been killer for tOSU. The lying and everything though, that is killing them now.
I think in a way the tats could have been killer anyway. If it started reporters digging, the rest of Pryor's activities could have been uncover. JT just expedited the process by lying.
What the fans think matters far less, imo, than what the current/former players think and say. With the practicing time situation, you didn't have players coming out throwing the alleged sources under the bus. With osu, you have current and former players bickering back and forth about "sacred brotherhoods" and betrayal and being "fake" or whatever. I've never seen such acrimony aired publicly amongst players. I think this speaks volumes and is just a precursor of what's to come.
It is never pleasant for friends or teammates to inform on one another. But there is a vast difference between exposing things that are just wrong and are hurting the institution versus sour grapes accusations like those made against UM in the Freep. What tsio really needs is to clean up their mess. This is going to involve major sanctions. But they need to clean up their mess. If it was UM, I think most of us would be demanding that things be cleaned up and that we would grit our teeth through sanctions to get it done.
an insider from the brotherhood to explain to me the why ratting is bad, but outing is good, and what the difference is between the two.
Wasn't part of it that the original allegations were that we were flagrantly exceeding practice time, but the UofMs final report stated the original allegations were incredibley overblown?
He had to have known that someone was going to put his name out there. Nothing is anonymous these days if the story is big enough and enough people know about it. It just sucks, because the fear of not being able to remain anonymous will keep much of the truth hidden from those that need to know.
Tattaglia's a pimp. He never coulda outfought Santino. But I didn't know until this day, that it was Barzini all along.
Some people replying to Joe saying Henton transferred before Pryor even got on campus, so he wouldn't be a credible source because he wouldn't have witnessed transactions for over a year. They pointed out, though, that Henton's brother was a student and friends with TP, which would be more likely..
Was not at osu as the same time as TP, he was at some Georgria school...are they talking about his brother?
...I'm just enjoying watching the "sacred brotherhood" destroy itself from the inside.
Eating their own.
A Fake Buckeye taking down another Fake Buckeye?
the enemy of their enemy become their friend? I'm getting the feeling that many have turned on Pryor - will they at some point embrace those who further his personal ignominy if it is done without besmriching the program?
Based on my facebook feed (I went to tOSU so I have a ton of rabid tOSU fans) they are all very, very happy that TP is gone. It's rather strange actually - you could take our TP done at OSU thread and put it on their site and it wouldn't be at all surprising.
Fair or not, the fans completely blame every single ounce of everything that's happening on him and they are just as happy he's gone as we are. To them, TP cost Tressel his job and the university all of this pain and it's all 100% on him.
What cost them all this pain was Mr. Oh-so-holy-sweatervest not having either the integrity or the intelligence to put the trinkets for tats thing out there, deal with it, and move on when it came up. Four game suspensions against nobodies; end of story. Absent Tressel's coverup, none of the rest of this crap comes out. He was the adult in the room. He was the one with experience. Evem if he was not ethical, it didn't mean he had to be stupid.
I've got at least one OSU fan amongst my facebook friends, and she is expressing deep regret because she was so looking forward to booing him whenever he took the field.
So these are the family values Boren was talking about! It all makes sense...
think he was gonna be able to stay anonymous by having his face blurred out on video did he?
if so, that might be the funniest thing about this whole fiasco. as if your friends and teammates wont recognize your voice.
i'm amazed at how strong their anti-snitch feelings are. i hope our players have better moral centers.
I work with young high school kids everyday, and if you ask them if they would rather "snitch" or take the fall for something someone else was guilty of...95% of them would probably say take the fall themselvs. I am willing to bet when placed in that situation, that only a very small percentage of them would be willing to follow through with that mentality...but "snitches get stitches" mentality is very prevalent amongst the youth today.
I don't believe this is a new attitude. Youths of all socioeconomic backgrounds have always taken the attitude that you shouldn't snitch/rat/narc/etc. on your friends. If we're honest with ourselves, I bet we can all think back to a situation where someone in school took more crap for being the alleged snitch than the actual wrongdoer.
This is too much fun.
This is the likely plan of action for the new AD, and I agree a good one.
They're acting in classic fashion at the moment, trying to plug all the holes in the dam. They believe they can contain it, and haven't realized yet that it's over - they've lost beyond all hope of recovery. The respect that each has lost cannot be reclaimed.
What you propose is what Smith/Gee should have done in March, including a Tressel resignation. They would have kept their jobs.
They have made their choice, and that choice is to stonewall. Numerous papers have made public records requests of tosu. They are reading them as narrowly as they can and invoking all sorts of dubious reasons for refusing to produce records (or producing redacted ones). Some paper will sue them over this, they will win in large part, and 6 months from now more stuff will come out. They are totally mismanaging the process. I love it!
Ohio State fans, and their program, are so frustrating.
When Darryl Stonum got his second DUI, did you hear any UM fans saying:
"Goddamit! Those Goddam police! Catching our stars! Arresting them! Ratting them out!"?
No, we hung our heads in shame (albeit for three minutes), and moved on, accepting what our player had done.
This whole "ratting out" thing, or the use of rhetoric by Smith and Gee, using words like "mistake" is disgusting. Plain and simple. DISGUSTING.
On my facebook, even on a few of the threads here, I am still hearing things like "Now you might find some way to beat us in the next 10 years, haha". Or, someone still bragging about that whole 9-1 thing. And as a result of this: All i want to say is:
YOU WERE CHEATING DONT YOU GET IT PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP ANYTIME THANK YOU.
The fan base throughout the US is ridiculous. They are still bragging. They are still finding ways to explain this away. ie: "Tressel was a good man. People are getting "ratted out". We would have beat you anyways."
It's a growing tumor on the body of midwestern football, and i have a great feeling that those NCAAFB fans who didn't already hate Buckeyes, will be hating them soon. It's a whole new kind of wonderful bandwagon.
But in reality, things are getting worse, as are their excuses, and i don't even think this is halfway over, yet. Just when i thought it was time to sit back an wait for the NCAA to come down hard, well, then.....40,000 dollars?
There's an asteroid headed straight for that school in the south, and thankfully, the administration they've been blessed with is content in keeping it a seret...or more so...pretending it's going to miss them by a few hundred miles north.
Well, the reason why OSU fans keep hanging their hats on the quote "We beat you 9 out of the past 10 years, haha you suck!" is because they literally have nothing else to brag about. They have nothing to look forward to. Their QB is gone, their head coach is gone, and 5 other players are suspended for basically the first half of the season. That's not even counting what the NCAA will do to them. They know the glory days are over, at least for now so why not try to sting their archrivals by taunting us with the recent record?
They really have little else to hang on to. I will say though, they have beaten us 9 out of 10 and that's something worth bragging about. Anytime you can beat the best in a string of games like that you have to be excited (whether it was done with poor ethics or not - they still outplayed us on the field.) You know what I'm saying? As much as I hate it they won those games. they did it without integrity but we can't argue with the score.
Now is the time to take back the field and dominate again and this coaching staff is taking us in the right direction.
They only won 6 of 7 "against the best." I would hardly compare whatever the hell that product on the field was the last 3 years with the 7 previous michigan teams.
I hang my hat on this sort of thing...and it's legit forever. Suck on that Ohio.
Hopefully Michigan can return the favor by going 9 out of 10. I'll take that in a heartbeat.
They outplayed us on the field using numerous ineligible players who, unless they were just pleasantly surprised they got free shit when they got to campus, knew they could get extra benefits when they signed to play for osu. That is what we call cheating. Them outplaying us on the field means very little, and shouldn't be something to "hang your hat on," when a large majority of your team shouldn't be on the field in the first place.
It's like you talking about all of the girls that you banged. Does it really count if they're your cousins?
...just ain't what it used to be. Most organized crime syndicates thrive and survive using the "code of honor" implied by omerta. Am I implying the OSU football is a crime syndicate? No. (OK...maybe a little.) But guys like Brandon Joe and Brian Rolle sure provide a lot of fodder for us conspiracy theorists who think that more than a handful of people associated with OSU's football program knew that a lot of funny business was happening behind the scenes.
Unlike with Ray Small, they aren't denying the accusations this time
You've been on a roll with the pictures lately Monarch, and you rep the Venture Bros. I heart you.
CORRECTION OTL's report anonymous "ex friend" who claimed TP made $500-$1000 per signed mini helmet was ex buckeye Antonio Henton's Brother
That is what I guessed when I first saw Antonio Henton name look at my earlier post.
This is like a day time soap without the shitty acting.
Watch the Smith/Gee press conference
"No... we, uh... we had no idea any of this stuff was happening... I mean... we had no idea this ONE THING was happening... there is no more stuff..."
When rats are cornered, they'll frequently turn on each other in their desperation to get away.
ratted out=acknowledging they were doing something wrong. you dont get ratted out for doing anything ok
IS EATING ITSELF"
the shirt possibilities are endless...
thats why criminals shoot the witnesses. Nothing to see here.
this guy on hineygate seems pretty connected.
The Talbott stuff is deep.
what does it say for those of us without a subscription?
you could just click on the link, since it's a free board.
and it took me to a membership sign up page. Thanks anyway.
Took me to the sign up page as well.
is well worth your 5 minutes to sign up. Trust me.
I read those links...didn't really see anything that we don't already know, other than personal opinions with no evidence to support them.
not even close to the bottom of this thing, which goes back a decade and involves many players, drugs, and--reportedly--sex. This gift is going to continue to give for a long time to come, and OSU will not surface as a legitimate football team for a decade. Stick a fork in these cretins.
Just a week ago speculation was still that OSU might not be much harmed in recruiting. No way is that still the case. Anyone who signs on now is pretty much declaring themselves a reactionary idiot. And you had better believe this hurts a school that has long been desperate for academic legitimacy. Gee does not recover, either.
I have a feeling that regardless of the circumstances at OSU, they will still be able to recruit in state...which just so happens to be one of the best recruiting grounds in the country.
To say they will be irrelevant is ignorant. If you are thinking Ohio State is going to be similar to an Indiana or an Illinois you are sadly mistaken. They will feel the heat but they will not fall off the map, the state won't let it happen. OSU fans have no other sports teams to look at for relief.
if all of the alleged improprieties and worse are borne out, they will be delegitimized as a team--descredited whether they win or lose.
They may be declaring themselves an idiot, but I don't think they're a reactionary idiot. What would they be reacting to?
of its many improprieties. That's what reaction is all about--acting in spite of your own knowledge of the moral implications.
this is really going to be fun to watch. They are turning upon themselves already, while they are still making excuses and blaming everyone but the guilty.
mama you've got to gooooooooo...
Could Braxton Miller already be on the same path as Pryor?
If you tell on Terrelle Pryor, you are "ratting." But if you expose someone to death threats, you're just "keeping it real."
Has anyone told the "sacred brotherhood" that having a code against "ratting" is what criminals do?
Not normally a Cowherd fan, but I had to my close my office door when he said this:
"Go to your message boards, enjoy the self-loathing, your program is going up in flames."
Laughing uncontrollably in the office is often mistaken for insanity.