Maybe they bring up Nick Castellanos to fill the offensive void at third and let Cabby and Prince split time? From what I've read Castellanos is a big time prospect. He'd be our number one prospect if Turner wasn't still down there.
OT: Prince Fielder to Tigers
Uh, you want $375 million splitting time? This year one of them will DH with V-Mart out, and next year either Miggy has to go back to 3rd, V-Mart has to catch (very unlikely) or someone (V-Mart) gets shipped out for an arm.
I didn't mean one rides the pine while the other plays. Obviously one would have to play DH while the other plays first. Why would anyone want anything other than that? I reclarify just for you. Splitting time at first and DH.
That will work just fine for this season, but what about next year when Martinez is (presumably) healthy? You've then got 4 guys (Cabrera, Fielder, Martinez, and Avila) vying for 3 spots: 1B, C, and DH. That's why people are saying either Cabby moves to third, or someone gets traded for an arm. I wouldn't be opposed to the latter option, since Cabrera's suckiness at third would almost offset his offensive production.
Honestly? No idea. I'm kind of hoping DD has a plan because I can see thing ending rather poorly. This move filled one hole and created a bunch of question marks for this season. Should be interesting to watch it all unfold.
Cabby has already stated that he is preparing to move to third by losing weight and working on his fielding.
You can LOL all you want (because that is LOL-worthy) but that appears to be the plan moving forward.
Mr. Ilitch is old and his health has not been good of late, and he would like to see his team win a World Series before he dies. The Tigers know they have about a 5 year window with their current roster, but Ilitch might not have that long. This was his decision. His signing, and his move to bring a WS to Detroit.
He is at least 2 years away from the majors. He's got tons of upside but he's no where near the Bigs right now.
isn't this the kid who just switched to third and was horrid defensively this past year? I could be wrong, there may be another...
I'm not acting as if this is what should or will happen. I'm just saying he's a top prospect who is the heir apparent to third. Hypothetical scenario based on his ability defensively at 3rd vs. Cabby's. It's got to be about the same.
dude I don't know about that...he committed like 25 errors last year...in A ball.
I get that. I'm just looking at some wishful thinking he could be better now. Because I can't help but cringe at the thought of Cabby lumbering around 3rd attempting to make a play. It's kind of a "maybe the stars will align?" type of wishful thinking lol.
Cabrera will be a solid 3rd baseman. I have no issues saying that with the utmost confidence. Castellanos will not be a perennial gold glover at 3rd, but I believe he will be better than Cabrera eventually. Remember he's only 19 still. Ideally, this will work out to where Cabrera plays 3B in 2012 and 2013, Fielder plays 1B in 2012 and 2013, and Martinez DH's in 2013. By 2014, Castellanos will hopefully be ready to take over 3B, moving Cabrera back over to 1B, with Fielder taking over at DH, and Martinez being the odd man out, being the oldest of the 3
Let me correct you all on Castellanos. 1) he's 19, he will not be coming up anytime soon. Like, mid-2013 will be the EARLIEST we see him. 2) he was a prep shortstop that grew to 6'4", so his frame is not adaptable to shortstop. He moved to 3rd not because he was bad at SS, but because as I said, he doesn't have the frame to play there. 3) yes, he struggled a bit at 3B, but all advanced scouts agree that he has a plus arm, above average range, and solid-average feet RIGHT NOW at the position. Remember, he's still 19. I have no problem projecting him to be a .285/.345/.800 hitter with 15-20 HR and 100 RBI potential, with average-fringe average defense.
I have to say that I'm pretty excited for this from a nostalgia standpoint. Cecil Fielder was the first Tiger's name I learned after moving here.
Heyman tweeted the deal and also tweeted that Fielder will stay at first and Miggy will move over. This helps the Tigers short term, but in the long run, not a fan. He's going to be 36 at the end of the deal, and someone with his stature will probably only put up elite level numbers for a few more years at most.
He's a known talent. What do you want them to do? Hopefully make the right choice on a prospect and bank on him rising to the level of Pujols or fielder on the tail end of the careers of our current superstars? Please, get Fielder and win. Right. Now. Good god you're not a fan of having Cabrera and Fielder in the same lineup? You need to reevaluate your baseball fandom.
No, I don't have to reevaluate anything considering I'm not a Tigers fan. I'm a Yankee's fan. And I can tell you from experiencing deals like these for a while now, while they help in the short term, like deals like A-Rod, Tex, and CC have, in the long term, they saddle your team with unmovable players who aren't producing.
Yes, he's a known talent. But he's also a known risk for that price. Players of his size always hit their peak much earlier than others and come crashing down much sooner. Look at Mo Vaughn. Great player but injuries hit, all of sudden he misses his age 33 season, and only plays one more full year. Look at his dad. Age 27, how old Prince is now, he hits 44 HRs. 3 years later he only hits 28, and only hits over 35 one time the rest of career. He also is plagues by injuries the rest of his career.
I said it helps them short term. I didn't argue that. It helps them win now. But long term this deal is not smart. You need to reevaluate how you deal with opposing opinions.
If we can get 30+ HR and 100+ RBI from Fielder for the next 6 years, along with Cabrera's production, I will not be upset.
Obviously that would be fantastic, but I don't know if that will happen. His past 4 years, 3 of them he hit under 40 HRs. Last year he hit 38, but the year before that it was only 32. He's been very durable in Milwaukee, playing in at least 157 games the past 6 years, but that might have added some wear and tear to his legs, especially if he is going to be the primary first baseman in Detroit. Also, according to ESPN ballpark factors, there were 118 left HRs in Milwaukee last year, but only 88 in Detroit. That doesn't bode well.
You guys are looking at this like fans (which duh!) and not owners.
Mike Ilitch is a HUGE Tigers fan, and wants nothing more than to bring a World Series to Detroit. His health has been failing of late, and he is 82 years old. He just watched his 2nd best hitter go down with a torn ACL, and knew that if he didn't sign Prince, the Tiger's prospect for winning the WS this year were not great. That's why this move was made.
In all likelihood Ilitch doesn't give a shit about years 7, 8, and 9 of this deal, because he probably won't be around in 7 years. This move was made to win now.
you cite a-rod, tex and cc as negatives, when in fact, those are the few big free agents that have produced for the yankees. they have had plenty of other complete busts.
david ortiz is still productive at age 36. even the laughing stock mo vaughn was productive through age 35. small risk here, considering prince is still in his prime.
the tigers may have 2 of the top 3 hitters in the AL locked up for the next several years. how can anyone be anything but excited for this team?
Mo Vaughn's probably a poor example, he hit .190 in 27 games at age 35.
Still, the previous year he hit .259-26-72. That's not $23 million production, but if Fielder is that useful seven years from now, then we probably got our money's worth.
you list vaughns final year in 2003. he was born in 1967 (December), so you are technically correct.
that said, we are in agreement. if fielder is productive into his 35th year, i will take it.
True about Ortiz, but he has only been a DH his entire career. He also exprienced a huge drop off at age 31, has not been locked up for as long as Fielder will be or paid nearly as much, is one of the few that has remained productive, and isn't as big as Fielder. Fielder is 5'11 275, Ortiz is 6'4 230.
And not true about Vaughn, the last elite season he had was at age 30, he was out of baseball for his entire 33 age year, out of baseball completely at age 36, and at age 35 only played 27 games. He only hit 26 HRs in his age 34 season as well. He also wasn't as big as Fielder, he was 6'1 225.
The deal helps in the short term, but is a long term risk.
Edit: Also, Fielder is being paid over $20 mil a year on average. None of those guys even put up numbers close to that worth more than a few years past 27.
ortiz was probably one of the 10 highest paid when his $13 mil kicked in in 2007. he's probably in the top 40 now.
fielder is similar. once everyone is signed, he will probably be around #5 in salary for 2012. in 5 years, there will probably be a couple dozen paid more. and prince is 28. ortiz was 31 when he got his deal.
ortiz' 4 best years were from age 28-31.
Even if he was top 10, there's a difference between top 10 at $13 mil and top 5 at $21 mil. Where the player places doesn't matter, it's the amount of the contract. Teams have payrolls based on how much they pay a player, not by how many players in the top 5 they have. A top 20 contract worth $13 still hurts a team more in terms of payroll than top 10 and $10 mil.
Also, Ortiz tested positive for PEDs in 2003, the year before he had his best 3 years. That could have played a part in it as well.
it's like you are assuming static salaries. the avg salary topped $1mil in 1992. It was $3.3 mil in 2011. So it's more than tripled in 20 years. it has slowed in recent years, but it's not unreasonable to think that salaries will nearly double during fielder's contract. if so, his contract and ortiz are practically the same, except fielder is 3 yrs younger.
fielders $23mil in 2020 will probably be like ortiz' $13mil now.
Just as an FYI, David Ortiz is not an every day fielder, so anybody making comparisons between Prince and Ortiz is retarded.
Prince Fielder has at 27 already logged over 8311 innings compared to Ortiz's 1964 at age 36. Absolutely no comparisons can be made when Prince has already logged roughly 4 times as much playing time in the field as Big Papi.
Maybe now Tigers fans can stop telling me that the Yankees are the only team that buys championships. As a Yankee fan I've always said that if you have the money then spend it on your team. The Tigers are finally starting to do that.
has always spent money on his sports teams to win championships, so we have nor problem with that and as far as the Yankees, everyone hates them anyway!
That's not exactly true, he always spent freely on the Red Wings, but until he signed Pudge Rodriguez back in '03 or '04, he wasn't really investing in the Tigers.
Correction, he spent freely on the Wings until the NHL implement a hard salary cap, then he started pouring more money into the Tigers.
Baseball has always been Ilitch's first love. IIRC, he was a catcher in the Tigers organization in his youth. More than anything else though, I think he realizes that he has pretty much accomplished everything an owner could possibly hope to accomplish with the Wings, and bringing a WS to the Tigers would put him in rare air as an owner by winning championships in multiple sports.
Look at it from the Mike Ilitch perspective. He wants to win NOW. He may not be around in 9 years. Professional sports is the one thing that valuing short term thinking can really pay off. I would rather have 1 ring the make the playoffs 8 years in a row and never get to a WS.
that is all
My pants are soiled and I still dont beleive it
120 wins could very well happen.
Well there is optimism and then there is...well, this.
Illitch wants a ring badly.
Is this real life?
What about defense? Don't tell me Miggy can be a competent defensive third baseman because it's just not true. And you can't not have both them in the lineup at the same time, if you have both on the active roster, you have to play them both.
I don't know, I'm just cringing at the thought of Cabrera playing third and Fielder at first, and then Delmon Young in left, with Raburn at second. That's terrifying. We need defense, there's a lot more to baseball than scoring runs. That lineup would put a lot of pressure on our pitching staff to strike guys out or get flyballs because Miggy isn't gonna stop a thing at third.
I guess it's not quite confirmed yet, but I was hoping they'd make a move for Cespedes, assuming he is all he's cracked up to be, and then move Young to DH.
And having said what I said. I will certainly be giggling with glee when Miggy and Prince start raining Hellfire on opposing pitching staffs.
delmon is a one year deal. i would guess miggy would end up in LF. just move jackson to left-center.
The Cardinals survived this past season with Berkman in RF. IIRC, Miggy was a 3B/OF when he broke in. As long as you have a speedster in CF, it can work.
I don't know, I'm just cringing at the thought of Cabrera playing third and Fielder at first, and then Delmon Young in left, with Raburn at second. That's terrifying.
Actually, now that I see you say that.... that's fucking hilarious. Oh, I know. At some point in the future I will cringe at the result. I don't have any doubt about that. It just reminds me of the days when the Tigers featured a lineup of guys like Rob Deer and Mickey Tettleton and Cecil Fielder and a whole bunch of guys who could really hit and then sent Mike Moore to the mound and called him an "ace." Good times. At least now we have pitching.
reminds me of wisconsin's offensive line. they beat the crap out of you so bad, you don't even notice the bad defense.
Cabrera was a LF when he broke in, moved to 3B with Florida, played 3B with the Tigers for like 2 weeks before they flipped him to 1B and moved Guillen to 3B. I am of the belief that Cabrera will turn into a solid/average Major League 3rd baseman, he's just that athletic. He will NOT move to LF again, I can promise you that. As for this season, 2012, reports are that Cabrera will rotate between 3B, 1B, and DH, Fielder will play 1B and DH, and presumably Inge/Kelly will see some reps at 3rd
In all honesty, Miggy can't be a worse third baseman than Wilson Betemit, and then when you factor in his offensive production......you can live with it.
He has 2 years to get into shape, and he has played the position before. It's wish thinking to assume he can be even a competent third basemen, but I would say that if you asked every team in baseball, "Hey would you take Miggy and Prince at the corners?" they'd almost categorically answer, "Yes. Are you effing kidding me? That's even a possibilty?"