What sources? Link?
OT: Prince Fielder to Tigers
why though? 9 yrs for a DH, and miggy doesnt have range to play 3rd. i guess ilitch really wants a ring badly. not sure about that one.
We must get you into rehab before crack kills you. Team needs big bat. Biggest bat available commandeered. Rejoice.
There's always one.
Fielder to 1st/DH
Miggy to 3rd/DH
Victor DH when healthy
...to keep pursuing the Cuban centerfielder Yoennis Cespedes. It is outside-the-box thinking, but they could then put Cabrera in centerfield sandwiched between Austin Jackson and Cespedes. Fielder can have first and Martinez can return to the DH.
MLBTR is reporting. It's done. OMG YES.
you confirm that this signing is a direct result of a Shane Morris Tweet.
Do we really need confirmation? I think we all know the answer to that question... Shane's going to single-handedly return the State of Michigan to where it once was. We should just call him Neo. Is that too much pressure?
why on earth do we not have a TREMENDOUS option on the moderate selections...this thread is FULL of TREMENDOUS!
If this is real you just made my day.
As a huge Brewer's fan, I am sad to see Prince go, but I wont lose any sleep over it. His inconsistencies will drive you guys nuts. He will go on MVP type streaks and carry the team, and at other times he looks lost and he gets extremely frustrated. Also his first base play is one of the worst in the leagues, but you guys have the DH which will help him. But overall Prince loves the game of baseball, and is a very competitive guy. He never takes a day off, and will always give it his all. Just one warning for you guys, Prince does get off to slow starts to start the year, so dont get on him too soon if he struggles to start the year. But as a Brewer fan, congrats to the Tigers and to Prince on getting a huge contract he wanted.
Appreciate the info, but I doubt he will spend much time carrying the team as we have this guy named Miguel Cabrera who is pretty good
Not disagreeing with you necessarily, but the Brewers have Braun.
Is there a player in baseball who doesn't go on streaks? No there isn't. Prince has been on base at a .400+ clip for 3 years running. He walked more than he struckout last year. Whatever inconsistencies he has, they are nothing compared to 95 percent of the rest of the league's players.
at least you can take comfort in the fact that Prince did not go to the Cubbies.
They are talking about it on the radio right now.
Come accomplish what your father never could.
Is Terry Foster saying anything about it? A few weeks ago, he called every caller an idiot who suggested Prince could be talked into becoming a Tiger.
For 214 million dollars (around 24 a year) anybody could be talked into anything
FULFILL YOUR DESTINY!
Wow!! I am guessing he will DH for 90% of the games. Big bat that replaces V-Mart.
That is a lot.
Very interesting. I thought it would be just a one year thing, but it's nine years. Victor is out this year, but what about 2013? Does Cabrera go back to 3rd? Holy crap though, what a huge signing. GO TIGERS!!!!
prince signing a one year contract? dont think so
Petition the American League for two DHs because Brandon Inge is still playing third
What are they doing with Avila, VMart (when healthy), Miggy and Fielder? Do they really expect Miggy or Fielder to be anything other than unmitigated disasters fielding 1B in 4-5 years?
You assume Victor Martinez will be able to play again.
I don't think it's fair to characterize Cabrera's defense at first as an unmitigated disaster. If he gets bumped over to third, you may be right
Agreed. Cabrera's not a glove wizard, but he's really not THAT bad at 1B. I'm OK with it.
There is absolutely no way this happening. One year deal maybe. But nine years, I'll believe it in year number eight.
Miggy and Prince rotating 1B every game? I think Vmart's deal is up after this year anyway...they could have done much worse.
We've got Vmart through 2014
that makes this less appealing.
They have a whole year to figure out what to do with VMart & could very well trade him for a pitcher or an actual Third Baseman (to replace the horrendous Inge/Kelly platoon we have now)
I doubt Vmart has any substantial trade value.
Do other teams not like guys that hit .300, can play a couple positions, hit in the clutch, and are model clubouse citizens? I realize he has bad kneww, but there'sno reason he can't recover and give a team a couple good years starting in '13
Except that he can't play multiple positions very well, he's near the end of his career and has a pretty big contract for a dude who can only DH and doesn't hit for much power anymore. I love Vmart and am happy he's a Tiger, but there's not much of a market for him.
That's absolutely not true. There's always a market for players who hit .330 with over 100 RBIs and a .400 average with RISP, whether they are stricly a DH or not (in V-Mart's case, he can even give you some games at Catcher and First Base).
The number of times he's hit .330 or better: twice in 10 years. times he's hit 100 RBI: 4. Its not like this is Miguel Cabrera. He's not very good at catcher and can't give you more than maybe 30 games a season there without being a serious liability and has little to no experience playing 1B...and he doesn't hit for power.
10 years ago he was a Rookie and only played in 12 games. The year after that he only played in 49 games. It seems pretty ridiculous to count those two years as an accurate representation of the calibur of player he is. In the 8 seasons since V-Mart became an everyday big leage player, he has hit over .300 six times, had over 100 RBIs four times, and hit 20 or more homeruns five times, including two out of the last three seasons.
The guy is a career .303 hitter that drives in runs and has a decent amount of pop. He may not be a superstar, but to say he has no value is totally incorrect. Victor Martinez is a very good player, and there are many teams that would love to have him.
Fortunately, it sounds like the plan for now is to keep him around, so it doesn't matter anyway.
He's a very good player, I just think he's a lot more valuable as a FA than in a trade...I think you'd get something for him but I don't think you could trade him for anything substantial. I never said he'd have no value, he just doesn't have very much trade value.
9 years? That contract is going to look awful on the back end.
He is only 27 and I think it depends on the nature of the contract. It may have buy out clauses in it after a certain year.
who held their peak value into their mid-30s is not long. And they're basically paying him like he's going to hold his peak value for the life of the deal.
i don't anyone thinks he will have his "peak value" in year 8-9. however, the going rate for elite players may be 30-35 million by then. so he doesn't need to be at his peak. he just needs to be a serviceable DH (ie. 25 HRs; 80 rbi).
with the stats you're predicting is worth like 2-3 wins a year. Unless inflation goes insane, that'll be a massive overpay.
well, how much was guillen worth the past couple years? basically nothing, and he cost $13 mil per year. yet, he was key in the 2006 run. i think illich is willing to overpay fielder on the back end of this deal for a chance at titles the next 3-5 years.
dombrowski is doing it the right way. a hitter is more likely to retain value over the long-term (see the many yankee SPs). so he drafts pitchers, pays them on the cheap early, and fills the offensive holes with free agents.
very smart, imo.
maybe this helps a bit - magglio and guillen averaged a combined $30 million the past several years. this is about the same as fielder and peralta. seems ok to me.
Boras is his agent. As such, I suspect the only way this contract ends up less than the full term is an opt-out for Fielder, so if he plays better than his contract he opts out and the Tigers have to pay more or let him go, and if it turns into the Alfonso Soriano contract the Tigers are stuck paying him for the duration.
Not good news for the Tribe. Holy shit. When Mr I goes for it, he goes for it.
Rosenthal has picked up on it. Nine years, $214 million.
Hate, hate, hate, hate it. 9 years $214 million for a fat 1st baseman (a player type that historically ages atrociously) who, while a very good player, isn't as valuable as his old-school stats make it seem? You would need the most optimistic possible projection on Fielder for this to be a remotely good deal.
If the Tigers can win one or two World Series in the next 5 years its worth it.
they're stuck with no rings and an albatross of a contract. And they still have a suspect rotation behind Verlander. And awful defense. I get that Martinez got hurt, but I don't see how this signing fills the actualy holes the team had.
Moneyball my friend.
Moneyball is for poor people.
We have an owner willing to spend the $$$$.
How many World Series appearances has moneyball gotten the As?
Sample sizes and all, but Doug Fister was 8-1 with a 1.79 ERA and a 2.75 xFIP in 11 appearances for the Tigers last season (not including post season). That hardly seems suspect to me.
His xFIP for the whole season was 3.61, if you expect him to even be in the ballpark of his numbers with the Tigers last year you'll be disappointed. He's likely to be a better-than-average starter but his numbers with the Tigers would make him better than Verlander, which, no. Reasonable to think Scherzer and Porcello could be better than last year though, and fortunately for the Tigers the rest of the AL Central pretty much blows again this year (I wouldn't be surprised to see everyone else below .500 again) so it's really about having the guns for the playoffs.
They also have one of the top 5 pitching prospects in the game in Jacob Turner. He may not be any better than average this year but he projects as a top of the rotation starter for years to come.
I absolutely love Jacob Turner, but he's not one of the top 5 pitching prospects in all of baseball. Just off the top of my head, Matt Moore, Dellin Bestences rank higher but there are more. Doesn't take away from his potential good #2 starter potential, but a top 5 he is not
Doug Fister is going to be a viable #2 starter for the Tigers. He obviously won't put up those kind of numbers for the entire season, but he will be good enough to win 15 games next year.
Blah blah blah, wins =! having a statistically great season, but if all of your starting pitchers win 15 games you're probably headed to the playoffs.
Comerica and Safeco aren't that different, and whatever differences there are, the run support the Tigers can give him in comparison to what he got from the Ms more than makes up for it.
Besides, a lot of statheads were harping on how he would underperform when he got to the tigers and he vastly overperformed. Small sample size, but yeah, the saberevolution is still in its infancy.
If we don't win one in the next 5 years then Verlander will be on the backend of his career, as will cabrera. You also don't know what the yearly breakdown is. For all you know, his last 4 years could be worth 12, 10, 8, and 6 million, making him pretty easy to trade as a DH if he can keep his batting numbers up.
Our rotation is fine. What teams in the AL who are going to compete for the pennant have a better one (I'm not saying the tigers have the best, but who is really that better? The Angels? OK, that's one. The Rangers? They just lost their ace. The Yanks? That's debatable. The Sox? LOL.)
I don't like the length of the deal, but I'm assuming it'll be front loaded. As for "old school stats".....really? How about some new numbers:
offensive WAR - 4th
adjusted batting runs - 2nd
adjusted batting wins - 2nd
offensive win % - 3rd
win probability added - 1st
AB/HR - 1st
adjusted OPS+ - 4th
OPS - 3rd
Slugging - 3rd
on base % - 2nd
Not to mention the actual old school numbers. The guy averages 32 doubles, 37 HR's, 92 BB's, and is a career .282/.390/.540/.929 hitter. He has 3 seasons in a row with 100+ walks and has hit at least 30 HR's in 5 of 6 seasons, and the one that he didn't hit 30 he hit 28 as a 22 year old in his first full season.
but his defensive numbers and the fact that he can only play 1st base/DH puts a real limit on his value. Focusing exclusively on offensive stats is misleading.
I'll take it. Offensive stats are the only measure for a DH.
Would you rather have a team full of weak hitting utilitymen who can play 4 or 5 positions? Come spend a summer watching the Cleveland Indians and you'll change your opinions.
I thunk it's safe to say that Illitch wants to win NOW. MLBTR has it posted already.
MLB Trade Rumors is reporting it:
Edit: WOW! What a pickup. I never thought this would happen. This year, it seems to make sense that either Fielder or Cabby will DH, while the other plays first. Once V-Mart gets healthy though, maybe we'll see Cabby become the everyday third baseman?
I sure as shit hope not. Let's just become the worst defensive team in baseball and call it a day.
follow the story on bless you boys:
Wow I love the hitting for next year. But nine years? What about defense? Does he or Miggy eventually go to third? Lot of questions to be answered. It will be a interesting year.
Fielder is absolutely not going to third nor is Cabrera.
Miggy broke into the majors at third and only switched to first since becoming a tiger. Not saying it is 100% but it isn't as crazy as you make it sound. What we do know is that we have a lot of people at dh and both Fielder and Miggy play first. So where do you put them thats the big question.
There's no way Miggy has the mobility to play 3rd now, not at an effective level anyways
The reason the Tigers moved him to first base was because he was already becoming terrible defensively at 3rd. Although they haven't changed his listed official weight in years, he's at least 30 pounds heavier than when he broke into the league, and that's a low estimate.
LOL at Prince playing third
I don't follow the NL much so I wasn't sure if this was a possible or not. I know Prince is a big guy is his D very suspect?
Well, I don't follow the NL much either, but I have to believe that the laws of inertia apply to fat men in that league as well as they do in the AL.
This is incorrect. Cabrera will play 3rd this season, along with some 1B and DH. Reports are saying that the Tigers told him to get in shape to play 3B "just in case" at the beginning of the offseason, and Boesch said on the radio today that he's doing just that. I strongly believe Cabrera will surprise everyone at 3B
Miggy or Fielder at third = worse defense than Ryan Raburn.
Is a move to DH possible?
*should have been more clear here posting from Droid. With the tigers having Cabrera is a move to DH for Fielder possible. Is this type of contract something you would see for the DH position?
I don't know if Cabrera can put up the offensive numbers of the Tigers' current third baseman though. Those numbers will be tough to replace.
Dombrowski does it again
Illich for sure on this one. he had to approve it. any idiot can offer the contract.
Early reports are that Boras (Fielder's agent) went over Dombrowski's head and straight to Mr. Ilitch.
Ilitch has known Prince since he was a youngin' hanging about the Tiger's clubhouse with his dad, and has always felt highly of him. Smart move by Boras. He got his client the best deal possible.
Yeah this was Ilitch all the way, Dombrowski said they were searching for a short term solution when asked about V-Mart's contract
Mlive has it as they call it unofficialy official. http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2012/01/detroit_tigers_reportedly_sign.html
I'm absolutely shocked.
MC to play some 3rd.
You can't waste Cabrera and Verlander's prime years. A shrewd move.
now we have arguably 2 of the top 5 hitters in the game and possible the top pitcher. we don't need to worry about defense.
reminds of eddie feigner and the king and his court days.
As an Indians fan, know that I mean no disrespect when I say... you sons of bitches.
You still have Sizemore, Hafner, Cabrera, and........um..and......need some help here.
Cleveland is a place that depends on the market, and we can't spend the money. Detroit on the other hand is apparently a thriving metropolis where they can spend the money. I want Dolan to get the fuck out of my city and spend years getting things shoved into his rectal cavity.
It has gotta suck to be an Indians fan, or indeed a fan of any club who has an owner not committed to spending what it takes to win. I'm not saying the money automatically equates to wins, but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Imagine a world where the Indians had the money to keep CC and CLee, and tell me they wouldn't still be in the hunt for the AL Central/Wildcard every season?
I think about CC and Cliff Lee, I think about keeping Thome and Manny Ramirez, I think about our starting SS and 2nd basemen being Asdrubal and Brandon Phillips, I think about Shapiro being in charge of 10 drafts and only hitting on one pick! (C.C.) It makes me sick to my stomach everyday because baseball is my favorite sport.
The Dolans are fucking idiots, they bought the Indians at the absolute peak price right before they were about to fall off a cliff. They have spent the next decade saving money in order to make up for how incredibly stupid they are. The Dolans own the Indians as an investment to make money, and they don't give a shit about anything else.
Maybe they bring up Nick Castellanos to fill the offensive void at third and let Cabby and Prince split time? From what I've read Castellanos is a big time prospect. He'd be our number one prospect if Turner wasn't still down there.
Uh, you want $375 million splitting time? This year one of them will DH with V-Mart out, and next year either Miggy has to go back to 3rd, V-Mart has to catch (very unlikely) or someone (V-Mart) gets shipped out for an arm.
I didn't mean one rides the pine while the other plays. Obviously one would have to play DH while the other plays first. Why would anyone want anything other than that? I reclarify just for you. Splitting time at first and DH.
That will work just fine for this season, but what about next year when Martinez is (presumably) healthy? You've then got 4 guys (Cabrera, Fielder, Martinez, and Avila) vying for 3 spots: 1B, C, and DH. That's why people are saying either Cabby moves to third, or someone gets traded for an arm. I wouldn't be opposed to the latter option, since Cabrera's suckiness at third would almost offset his offensive production.
Honestly? No idea. I'm kind of hoping DD has a plan because I can see thing ending rather poorly. This move filled one hole and created a bunch of question marks for this season. Should be interesting to watch it all unfold.
Cabby has already stated that he is preparing to move to third by losing weight and working on his fielding.
You can LOL all you want (because that is LOL-worthy) but that appears to be the plan moving forward.
Mr. Ilitch is old and his health has not been good of late, and he would like to see his team win a World Series before he dies. The Tigers know they have about a 5 year window with their current roster, but Ilitch might not have that long. This was his decision. His signing, and his move to bring a WS to Detroit.
He is at least 2 years away from the majors. He's got tons of upside but he's no where near the Bigs right now.
isn't this the kid who just switched to third and was horrid defensively this past year? I could be wrong, there may be another...
I'm not acting as if this is what should or will happen. I'm just saying he's a top prospect who is the heir apparent to third. Hypothetical scenario based on his ability defensively at 3rd vs. Cabby's. It's got to be about the same.
dude I don't know about that...he committed like 25 errors last year...in A ball.
I get that. I'm just looking at some wishful thinking he could be better now. Because I can't help but cringe at the thought of Cabby lumbering around 3rd attempting to make a play. It's kind of a "maybe the stars will align?" type of wishful thinking lol.
Cabrera will be a solid 3rd baseman. I have no issues saying that with the utmost confidence. Castellanos will not be a perennial gold glover at 3rd, but I believe he will be better than Cabrera eventually. Remember he's only 19 still. Ideally, this will work out to where Cabrera plays 3B in 2012 and 2013, Fielder plays 1B in 2012 and 2013, and Martinez DH's in 2013. By 2014, Castellanos will hopefully be ready to take over 3B, moving Cabrera back over to 1B, with Fielder taking over at DH, and Martinez being the odd man out, being the oldest of the 3
Let me correct you all on Castellanos. 1) he's 19, he will not be coming up anytime soon. Like, mid-2013 will be the EARLIEST we see him. 2) he was a prep shortstop that grew to 6'4", so his frame is not adaptable to shortstop. He moved to 3rd not because he was bad at SS, but because as I said, he doesn't have the frame to play there. 3) yes, he struggled a bit at 3B, but all advanced scouts agree that he has a plus arm, above average range, and solid-average feet RIGHT NOW at the position. Remember, he's still 19. I have no problem projecting him to be a .285/.345/.800 hitter with 15-20 HR and 100 RBI potential, with average-fringe average defense.
I have to say that I'm pretty excited for this from a nostalgia standpoint. Cecil Fielder was the first Tiger's name I learned after moving here.
Heyman tweeted the deal and also tweeted that Fielder will stay at first and Miggy will move over. This helps the Tigers short term, but in the long run, not a fan. He's going to be 36 at the end of the deal, and someone with his stature will probably only put up elite level numbers for a few more years at most.
He's a known talent. What do you want them to do? Hopefully make the right choice on a prospect and bank on him rising to the level of Pujols or fielder on the tail end of the careers of our current superstars? Please, get Fielder and win. Right. Now. Good god you're not a fan of having Cabrera and Fielder in the same lineup? You need to reevaluate your baseball fandom.
No, I don't have to reevaluate anything considering I'm not a Tigers fan. I'm a Yankee's fan. And I can tell you from experiencing deals like these for a while now, while they help in the short term, like deals like A-Rod, Tex, and CC have, in the long term, they saddle your team with unmovable players who aren't producing.
Yes, he's a known talent. But he's also a known risk for that price. Players of his size always hit their peak much earlier than others and come crashing down much sooner. Look at Mo Vaughn. Great player but injuries hit, all of sudden he misses his age 33 season, and only plays one more full year. Look at his dad. Age 27, how old Prince is now, he hits 44 HRs. 3 years later he only hits 28, and only hits over 35 one time the rest of career. He also is plagues by injuries the rest of his career.
I said it helps them short term. I didn't argue that. It helps them win now. But long term this deal is not smart. You need to reevaluate how you deal with opposing opinions.
If we can get 30+ HR and 100+ RBI from Fielder for the next 6 years, along with Cabrera's production, I will not be upset.
Obviously that would be fantastic, but I don't know if that will happen. His past 4 years, 3 of them he hit under 40 HRs. Last year he hit 38, but the year before that it was only 32. He's been very durable in Milwaukee, playing in at least 157 games the past 6 years, but that might have added some wear and tear to his legs, especially if he is going to be the primary first baseman in Detroit. Also, according to ESPN ballpark factors, there were 118 left HRs in Milwaukee last year, but only 88 in Detroit. That doesn't bode well.
You guys are looking at this like fans (which duh!) and not owners.
Mike Ilitch is a HUGE Tigers fan, and wants nothing more than to bring a World Series to Detroit. His health has been failing of late, and he is 82 years old. He just watched his 2nd best hitter go down with a torn ACL, and knew that if he didn't sign Prince, the Tiger's prospect for winning the WS this year were not great. That's why this move was made.
In all likelihood Ilitch doesn't give a shit about years 7, 8, and 9 of this deal, because he probably won't be around in 7 years. This move was made to win now.
you cite a-rod, tex and cc as negatives, when in fact, those are the few big free agents that have produced for the yankees. they have had plenty of other complete busts.
david ortiz is still productive at age 36. even the laughing stock mo vaughn was productive through age 35. small risk here, considering prince is still in his prime.
the tigers may have 2 of the top 3 hitters in the AL locked up for the next several years. how can anyone be anything but excited for this team?
Mo Vaughn's probably a poor example, he hit .190 in 27 games at age 35.
Still, the previous year he hit .259-26-72. That's not $23 million production, but if Fielder is that useful seven years from now, then we probably got our money's worth.
you list vaughns final year in 2003. he was born in 1967 (December), so you are technically correct.
that said, we are in agreement. if fielder is productive into his 35th year, i will take it.
True about Ortiz, but he has only been a DH his entire career. He also exprienced a huge drop off at age 31, has not been locked up for as long as Fielder will be or paid nearly as much, is one of the few that has remained productive, and isn't as big as Fielder. Fielder is 5'11 275, Ortiz is 6'4 230.
And not true about Vaughn, the last elite season he had was at age 30, he was out of baseball for his entire 33 age year, out of baseball completely at age 36, and at age 35 only played 27 games. He only hit 26 HRs in his age 34 season as well. He also wasn't as big as Fielder, he was 6'1 225.
The deal helps in the short term, but is a long term risk.
Edit: Also, Fielder is being paid over $20 mil a year on average. None of those guys even put up numbers close to that worth more than a few years past 27.
ortiz was probably one of the 10 highest paid when his $13 mil kicked in in 2007. he's probably in the top 40 now.
fielder is similar. once everyone is signed, he will probably be around #5 in salary for 2012. in 5 years, there will probably be a couple dozen paid more. and prince is 28. ortiz was 31 when he got his deal.
ortiz' 4 best years were from age 28-31.
Even if he was top 10, there's a difference between top 10 at $13 mil and top 5 at $21 mil. Where the player places doesn't matter, it's the amount of the contract. Teams have payrolls based on how much they pay a player, not by how many players in the top 5 they have. A top 20 contract worth $13 still hurts a team more in terms of payroll than top 10 and $10 mil.
Also, Ortiz tested positive for PEDs in 2003, the year before he had his best 3 years. That could have played a part in it as well.
it's like you are assuming static salaries. the avg salary topped $1mil in 1992. It was $3.3 mil in 2011. So it's more than tripled in 20 years. it has slowed in recent years, but it's not unreasonable to think that salaries will nearly double during fielder's contract. if so, his contract and ortiz are practically the same, except fielder is 3 yrs younger.
fielders $23mil in 2020 will probably be like ortiz' $13mil now.
Just as an FYI, David Ortiz is not an every day fielder, so anybody making comparisons between Prince and Ortiz is retarded.
Prince Fielder has at 27 already logged over 8311 innings compared to Ortiz's 1964 at age 36. Absolutely no comparisons can be made when Prince has already logged roughly 4 times as much playing time in the field as Big Papi.
Maybe now Tigers fans can stop telling me that the Yankees are the only team that buys championships. As a Yankee fan I've always said that if you have the money then spend it on your team. The Tigers are finally starting to do that.
has always spent money on his sports teams to win championships, so we have nor problem with that and as far as the Yankees, everyone hates them anyway!
That's not exactly true, he always spent freely on the Red Wings, but until he signed Pudge Rodriguez back in '03 or '04, he wasn't really investing in the Tigers.
Correction, he spent freely on the Wings until the NHL implement a hard salary cap, then he started pouring more money into the Tigers.
Baseball has always been Ilitch's first love. IIRC, he was a catcher in the Tigers organization in his youth. More than anything else though, I think he realizes that he has pretty much accomplished everything an owner could possibly hope to accomplish with the Wings, and bringing a WS to the Tigers would put him in rare air as an owner by winning championships in multiple sports.
Look at it from the Mike Ilitch perspective. He wants to win NOW. He may not be around in 9 years. Professional sports is the one thing that valuing short term thinking can really pay off. I would rather have 1 ring the make the playoffs 8 years in a row and never get to a WS.
that is all
My pants are soiled and I still dont beleive it
120 wins could very well happen.
Well there is optimism and then there is...well, this.
Illitch wants a ring badly.
Is this real life?
What about defense? Don't tell me Miggy can be a competent defensive third baseman because it's just not true. And you can't not have both them in the lineup at the same time, if you have both on the active roster, you have to play them both.
I don't know, I'm just cringing at the thought of Cabrera playing third and Fielder at first, and then Delmon Young in left, with Raburn at second. That's terrifying. We need defense, there's a lot more to baseball than scoring runs. That lineup would put a lot of pressure on our pitching staff to strike guys out or get flyballs because Miggy isn't gonna stop a thing at third.
I guess it's not quite confirmed yet, but I was hoping they'd make a move for Cespedes, assuming he is all he's cracked up to be, and then move Young to DH.
And having said what I said. I will certainly be giggling with glee when Miggy and Prince start raining Hellfire on opposing pitching staffs.
delmon is a one year deal. i would guess miggy would end up in LF. just move jackson to left-center.
The Cardinals survived this past season with Berkman in RF. IIRC, Miggy was a 3B/OF when he broke in. As long as you have a speedster in CF, it can work.
I don't know, I'm just cringing at the thought of Cabrera playing third and Fielder at first, and then Delmon Young in left, with Raburn at second. That's terrifying.
Actually, now that I see you say that.... that's fucking hilarious. Oh, I know. At some point in the future I will cringe at the result. I don't have any doubt about that. It just reminds me of the days when the Tigers featured a lineup of guys like Rob Deer and Mickey Tettleton and Cecil Fielder and a whole bunch of guys who could really hit and then sent Mike Moore to the mound and called him an "ace." Good times. At least now we have pitching.
reminds me of wisconsin's offensive line. they beat the crap out of you so bad, you don't even notice the bad defense.
Cabrera was a LF when he broke in, moved to 3B with Florida, played 3B with the Tigers for like 2 weeks before they flipped him to 1B and moved Guillen to 3B. I am of the belief that Cabrera will turn into a solid/average Major League 3rd baseman, he's just that athletic. He will NOT move to LF again, I can promise you that. As for this season, 2012, reports are that Cabrera will rotate between 3B, 1B, and DH, Fielder will play 1B and DH, and presumably Inge/Kelly will see some reps at 3rd
In all honesty, Miggy can't be a worse third baseman than Wilson Betemit, and then when you factor in his offensive production......you can live with it.
He has 2 years to get into shape, and he has played the position before. It's wish thinking to assume he can be even a competent third basemen, but I would say that if you asked every team in baseball, "Hey would you take Miggy and Prince at the corners?" they'd almost categorically answer, "Yes. Are you effing kidding me? That's even a possibilty?"
When I read this I immediately lost interest in class and just begin imagining that lineup.
I know I am supposed to be cramming for a criminal law exam. I haven't been able to pick the book back up.
Wow...I have no words for this....except HOLY CRAP!!!!!!
Is it possible they trade Cabrera to fill other holes? Are DD and Mr. I. tired of the drama with Miguel?
that could be a possibility in 2013.
That is an absolutely ridiculous assertion. Even with as good as Fielder is, Miguel Cabrera is the best pure hitter in all of baseball, with the ONLY possible exception being Pujols. DD and Illitch didn't sign Fielder to free up Cabrera in a trade, they signed Fielder to have the best 3-4 punch in a lineup from a hitting and power perspective since probably Maris and Mantle
Please God don't turn into Adam Dunn.
Roughly $65,000 a day for the next 9 years of his life...
that really puts it in perspective.
Oh boy....Oh boy!!!!!!
Mike Ilitch is an incredible owner. Hopefully he'll be with us awhile longer (he's in his early 80s IIRC).
Is Verlander going to lose a game next year? The amount of guys he strikes out with that run support. Obviously an exaggeration, but wow.
The guy this will hurt when Vmart comes back is Porcello. Ground ball pitcher with a shaky infield... Not a perfect fit. Fister must be drooling after what he had to live through in Seattle though.
Cabrera will be better than anyone thinks at 3B. Mark my words
I just went to purchase a hot n' ready pizza and saw that it was $30.
kind of like the final scene in "3 o'clock high".
Any guesses where Fielder and Cabrera will fit in the batting order? Cabrera to the 3 slot and Fielder #4? Vice versa? I know Leyland likes an effective bat behind Cabrera...maybe he'll try Boesch there.
#6-9 who cares
move peralta to #2 against lefties. or even raburn.
oh for a real leadoff guy.
Cabrera would go to the 3, he's a true hitter while Fielder is a true power hitter
For a very fat man. Uh, no. He won't keep up the type of production he had in Milwaukee for more than 3-4 years. Then he'll drop off a cliff like his fat daddy.
Hey man, he's a vegetarian. Give him a break.
On a side note: that's a wholllllllle lotta lettuce.
With Victor Martinez' injury, this is a good deal for the Tigers. And when Martinez returns to full health, the Tigers lineup will be dangerous (not that it's dangerous enough as is with Fielder)
Good luck to him and Tigers, big get today
The Detroit News story is above.
I'll take that - I actually admire Illitch for doing what he needed to do in the here and now to make a formidable 3-4 combination in the lineup where none may have existed had he waited to fill Victor's shoes. Actually, when Martinez comes back, imagine the 3-4-5 in the Tigers' lineup. Damn!
I love those old Tiger road uniforms, though.
Great news! Go Tigers!
Dombrowski and Illitch just gave the rest of the AL the one finger salute. Nice.
Everyone liked Cecil when he was here, and a lot of people were disappointed when the Tigers weren't in a position to draft his son. The stories of him hitting balls into the seats of Tiger Stadium as a kid are a great prelude to his finally playing for the Tigers. There is a lot of potential for a Hollywood ending here.
If Prince Fielder plays his cards right, he will be one of Detroit's most beloved sports figures for the rest of his life.
I remember hearing stories about Ilitch being extremely disappointed that they didn't get a chance to draft Prince. Looking back, this road might have been best for both parties. Prince got a chance to develop into one of baseball's best hitters in relative obscurity (Not a slight against the Brewers, but the pressure of being the son of a good major leaguer was probably hard enough let alone what it would have been being Cecil Fielder's son drafted by Detroit. When you factor in his relationship with his father, it's not hard to imagine things going south quickly had Prince struggled early in Detroit, or even performed well, but not up to Cecil's standards).
Regardless, this has a chance of being one of the greatest baseball storylines of all time, the stuff of legend and the stuff only dreams (or hollywood) are made of.
Imagine if Prince wins a World Series with the Tigers, and reconciles with his father all in the same season. It world make "Field of Dreams" look like garbage in comparison.
Illitch will make a lot of the $214 million back in merchandising and increased ticket sales. If Fielder can have a good couple of years and make the town excited about the team as much as they were about Verlander last year, it won't matter if he bats like Brandon Inge after 2015. The SABR people don't think about what the team gets in return off the field for big players, but I can guarantee that the owners do.
Also, 45 is conveniently open on the current Tigers roster, if Prince wants it.
Here's Drew Sharp, just in time to kill everyones joy.
I love the trade from a pure offensive baseball sense plus some history (his dad was a pretty good masher for the Tigers in his day), but I'm not sure how much he helps the team on the field. If he has a typical season, he's basically VMart with less range and more pop, if somewhat slightly. Miller Park was basically a neutral field in terms of hitting, so at least his numbers were not overly inflated. That said, the Tigers already have a power-hitting first baseman with suspect range, and while Prince can hit DH, you like to keep that space more open for guys coming back from injury, rest from the field, etc. Yes, Miggy could play 3rd and Fielder at 1st, but that's putting quite a bit of strain at two positions both physically as well as defensively.
Overall, this might work out well in the short term, but Fielder's body type is not one that holds up as he ages (at least historically), and I'm always a bit scared paying $20M+ for a guy who can't stay on the field because of injuries. Of course, the Tigers have the money and you can't be that worried about teams 3-4 years down the line. I'm very excited about the next 2-3 years, and then I guess we'll see how it shakes out. Still amazes me that the Tigers are making the biggest move of the offseason.
1) it was not a trade. It was a signing. 2) "Less range and more pop" than V-Mart. What were you referring to by "range?". Martinez was going to strictly DH this season anyways, hence the Laird signing. In terms of 1st base, Leyland preferred putting Kelly out there to give Cabby a day off. Does this move improve the Tigers overall defense? Absolutely not. Does it improve the team immensely, and make them (arguable) favorites to win the AL and the WS? You betcha. Love the move. Illitch wants a title
Yeah, didn't mean to say trade - that was just a brain fart on my end.
As for range, I meant VMart can at least play multiple positions (catcher and DH, and possible 1st). And yes, varying levels of quality at each. With Fielder, it is a mediocre 1st base plus DH, and that's it.
As for making them the prohibitive favorties for the AL and WS title, I'd like to see more money spent at shoring up the bullpen - expecting AA and the Big Potato to be lights out again isn't a given, and I'm not sure that Fielder is more than a slight improvement offensively from what Martinez gave last year. I just want to see the team continue to improve, both at the top of the order as well as defensively in the outfield beyond Jackson.
I don't like the length of the deal, but my guess is that Fielder wasn't going to sign for less.
I'm iffy on what this will realistically do to the defensive lineup, but with VMart out for the season it's not a 2012 issue.
Other than that, holy shit. If Jackson even returns most of the way to his rookie numbers, this lineup is killer down to like the 8 spot.
Great signing this shows a lot of balls! Let me tell u guys something we have a window of opportunity and our owner/front office are going all out to maximize our ring-winning potential! I love it GO TIGERS!!!
Have fun with that contract. His knees will start to give after three or four years.
The four world series wins...I'd take it hater
This news just made my MFing day. I have been depressed since V-Mart got hurt.
Love the signing. The lineup is deadly with Cabrera, Fielder, Boesch, Young, and Peralta in the middle. Oh yea and this guy Martinez who could possibly come back come playoff time but if not will be here for next 2 years.
The defense and positions everyone will play, we can let management figure that out. Defense seems to be the weakest link for the Tigers right now.
Either way stop crying people, would you rather NOT have Prince? Illitch is a billionaire in his 80s, Im sure hes not worried about the money. He wants to win the World Series.
In baseball, the more things change, the more they stay the same. An eerily similar situation happened to the Tigers in 1940, when future HOF'er Hank Greenberg moved from first base to left field in order for the Tigers to get Rudy York's big bat into the everyday line-up. The move worked brilliantly, as Greenberg worked tirelessly to make himself a better fielder and he and York combined for 74 homers that year. Oh yeah, they won the pennant and lost to the Reds in a seven game world series. IMO, Cabrera will be spending most of his time next year patrolling left field, with Delmon Young being the full-time DH. After next year when they let Young go (currently signed for only 1 year), Victor comes back to being the full time DH for the last two years of his contract. Only then will Cabrera move to full time DH. Now look at the line-up for this year (assuming no more deals):
Santiago and Worth platoon.
A perfectly balanced line-up. Champagne anyone?
He's too fat to play LF.
Of course Prince had to come to the Tigers. Just yesterday Mike Valenti pontificated ad nausium on his Detroit radio show that there was absolutely no way Prince would come to the Tigers. Today he ridiculed the callers who called him out on it.
Mike Valenti = asshat
He doesn't know anything about sports ,and hates Detroit along with Michigan. Someone flush that turd!
We are the Sultans ....The Sultans of swat!