I mean, I see Stern's point, but how could he possibly justify sanctions in this situation? The coach's job is to win as many games as possible. If he thinks this will help him win more games, he's making the right decision.
OT: Popovich rests 4 starters tonight against Miami. Stern vows sanctions.
if hes does impose sanctions that could set a terrible precedent in the NBA, coaches rest players during the year, give guys nights off or an extra day to recover and stuff like that. if this was baseball it would be outrageous for the comissioner to complain about giving players a rest. coaches always rest players its a long season
Stern has the authority to sanction for this. What would the basis be? The Spurs bench got better last night, that is viable and even wise coaching strategy. Go away Stern, faster than scheduled please.
I remember when Insectosaurus didn't have the Block M on his chest and it just made so much sense to include it, seeing your user name and all.The image is so much better with the Block M on his chest, even if we take if for granted over time. It really is hilarious, just thought you should know that the work was appreciated!
Disagree. A coach's job is to try to win every individual game. What if this win for Miami were to put them in the playoffs over someone else? How is that fair?
If it's illegal in badminton it should be illegal in the NBA.
A coach knows he's not going to win them all. Sometimes you have to leave the starter in to get pounded for two more innings to save your bullpen for tomorrow night.
True, and that is why starters come out during blowouts. Completely giving up on the game before it's even started is a whole different story. You have to enter every game with what you believe is your best chance of winning that game. If you're down big after the first inning/period/quarter, then you adjust your strategy once it's clear the outcome is all but official.
The badminton decision was a horrible one, though. I believe the players were absolutely right to tank the games, and I would've done the same thing - if the IOC didn't like it, they should have structured the competition differently. The goal of an athlete or team is to win the championship in their sport. Other wins are subordinate ends. If sacrificing one win will help you to achieve more wins in the long run, that is what should be done.
that the IOC deserves a lot of blame for that whole fiasco, but I don't think these situations are really analogous. If San Antonio had followed the badminton model, they'd be doing things like chucking free throws into the stands and nicely handing the ball to Miami. The badminton players weren't trying to win as many games as possible, they were attempting to get an easier draw by way of losing an extra game.
If the Spurs were doing things like that, Stern should definitely step in and stop it. As it were, it sounds like San Antonio decided that their best shot at winning the most games (and not finding an easier opponent the next week) was to play a rested bench and simultaniously rest the starters for the next series of games.
.....at the end of the season. Teams out of the running for the post season or teams with their position locked up will sit players and tanks games. It can affect the post season position of another team or screw up draft orders. Tough!
If a coach thinks it is in his best interest to rest his starters or get the younger players valueable game experience, that should be completely up to him. Ultimately, he is judged by his team's performance over the course of the complete season. Stern's decision is ridiculous.
My guess is there is more to the story. I wouldn' t be surprised if the Spurs were told not to do this beforehand and they did it anyway.
They've done it before, though not to this degree and the NBA wasn't happy about it before. To do it for a nationally televised game is just asking for it. 4 NFL teams have been fined this year for not reporting injuries. Vegas has a huge influence over professional and college sports and stuff like this creates problems for them.
I'm not sure who I'm siding with, all I know is if I spent a lot of money on getting tickets to that game, this would really piss me off.
slippery slope, whats next sanctioning for not playing a player enough minutes or not getting enough shots?
Like Miami fans can tell the difference.
with the Wizards, I got preseason tickets to see him play the Pistons at the Palace. He played but I remember that it was very few minutes and not past the first quarter...... I was slightly annoyed, but I also accepted that I wasn't watching the Harlem Globetrotters. The players weren't there to maximize my experience as a fan.
I guess I disagree there. I think it is the job a of professional athlete (less so with college) to provide the best experience for the fans. They're not given these huge multi-million dollar contracts because they're good at the sport—there are a lot of people who are just as good at a lot of other things, but without the amazing financial benefits—rather they are paid that much because fans enjoy watching there sport and are willing to spend lots of money on tickets/merchandise/everything. If they're taking the fan's money (and a lot of it for that matter), then they are at least somewhat obligued to provide them with a good experience.
I see your point, and I agree with you in theory, but what is the goal of every NBA team at the beginning of the season? To win a championship. If you ask anything less of your team, you arent a good coach. Pop knows his team is old and won't stay healthy through 82 games and have enough in the tank to win a championship. And the way this game played, I cant imagine more people watching if the Spurs played all their old stars. The goal is to win when it matters and Pop does that as well as anyone. I really hope Stern doesn't get away with this. If he does, why can't he set the starting lineup for every team in the league?
Should win championships, agreed. I had no problem with my all-time favorite player Lidstrom sat out if it helped the Wings get closer to the Cup.
Entertainment is a goal of an organization, but not part of the competitive staffs' duties, meaning coaches, players and equipment staff. They are paid to win.
Team doctors have a priority to manage the players safety. It's Operations job to sell tickets and plan stupid intermission gimmicks. Coaches and players should try to win. If it were different withy favorite team, I'd be pissed.
If San Antonio needed to rest some players, fine. But choosing well in advance to rest them all in the same game is a problem, both in their uneven competitive effort and in the product for the fans. Popovic would have done better not to admit this was all planned.
Doesnt it make sense to keep them all out one game instead of one player out every few games? Also, why not do it against a team you probably won't beat on the road, especially this early in the season. This is their 6th game in 9 days. Near 40 year olds need more time to recover and they have a lot of those.
but it's not in the league's interest to have teams choosing opponents they aren't really trying to beat. It was not the only reasonable way to get their players some rest. There are limits on what teams are allowed to do even if it's in their own interest. Would the NFL tolerate teams admitting they were intentionally losing games to move up in the draft?
That's the problem..... Pop doesn't work for the league. He works for the Spurs' organization and has to answer to them if his team fails, not Stern. As stated in the OP, SA was playing it's 6th game in 9 days? Did you also realize that Miami's previous game before yesterday was Saturday? Why should Pop bend over for Stern when it appears that this "marqee" mid season match up was set up in Miami's favor from the beginning?
Hell, Popovich could take this to a mediator and plead a case that he felt playing his well rested reserves gave his team the best chance to win.... and it would be a case worth listening to since SA almost pulled it off last night.
Kind of rediculous. If fans want to voice their displeasure then sure but this is not a matter for the commisioner to handle.
The oddsmakers who pay Stern and his guys to throw games must be upset that the Spurs are throwing the game.
What right does the commissioner have to punish a coach for making coaching decisions? Sounds like a totally douche move by Stern. Even if there is more to this than meets the eye, the league should not be able to interfere with roster decisions. If it's really a problem, let the Spurs organization deal with it.
Also, is there a precedent for this in any major US sport? I've never heard of a league commissioner punishing a team because of a coach's roster decisions.
The Spurs did not have to sit all those guys in the same game. They get lots of tv money from the league and doing stuff like this is hurting the league.
Maybe they didn't have to... but that's their prerogative, no? The commissioner is way over-stepping his bounds by getting into this.
....if SA tanked mid season because of fatigue.
this should stop teams from inflating ticket prices for marquee games as well.
I can't stand Stern. He has no right to punish the spurs or Popovich. If the game wasn't against the Heat and on TV, there would be no sanctions. Pop and the Spurs management has the right to do anything and everything to reach their goals this season. I would guess that their goals include some playoff wins, not a win against any specific team on any specific night.
btw its tied late in the 4th..
my favorite part is that they are tied late in the 4th
Let me put this out first- I don't really follow the NBA.
That said, how in the world can Stern justify this? Popovich acts in the interest of his team and sanctions are threatened? Is this just Stern talking out of his ass?
This is ridiculous, I must be missing something. Surely the NBA can't be that transparently indifferent about the actual strategy, just ticket sales.
spurs up 4. lol. good luck with that Stern.
To hell with Stern's opinion regardless of its validity. Coaches have the authority to do whatever they see necessary for their team to win a championship. It's not Popovich's job to concern himself with fan experience.
I don't blame Dave Brandin when Hoke puts in the second string when we're beating cupcakes by 59 points
College athlete's "salary" - Free room/board, meals and tuition.
Pro athletes salary - Millions.
Believe it or not, these guys are paid insane amounts to entertain, and by the average man's standards, the stud players make enough money to be easily set for (a very comfortable) life a couple months into a single season. Michael Jordan even understood that and played every game like it was his last, even if his body tried its damnedest to stop him. College athletes on the other hand have yet to earn a dime towards their name and have their whole lives ahead of them. While I can't stand Stern and will never say I openly agree with a single thing he says or does, those Spurs have a damn job to do, and that's to give fans their money's worth.
Ok, but then how do you determine whether or not the fans are getting their money's worth? Do you measure that by looking at one game, or by looking at the bigger picture and realizing that some sacrifice may be necessary along the way to best position your team for the championship?
I don't care about any of that. Greg Popovich's job is to win championships. If he feels that it is in his teams best interest to rest the starters then he should do that. Doing anything else is absurd.
Say whatever you want about ts being entertainment, that's not Popovich's job.
Teams pull their starters all the time when a game is blow-out, win or lose. Jordan didn't fucking play 40 minutes in blow-out wins or blow out losses. How is what the Spurs are doing any different??
Wait until week 17 of the NFL season. How many starters are playing that week?? Should they all be fined too? You're a fucking idiot.
but not your delivery... don't turn us into the RCMB. We should be able to disagree here without getting in eachother's grill.
Fine, you don't agree with my opinion and you have some decent points to consider of your own, that's cool. However, my opinion is not uncommon in the least, and thusly is not so outrageous of a thought that you need to pop a blood vessel getting so worked up about it while you attempt to belittle and cuss out a guy you don't know through a computer screen. Learn to state your opinion like an adult and not a little brat that never learned to acceptably filter his thoughts before speaking.
By the way, Jordan averaged 38.25 minutes per game in his career. With how damn good his teams were for a long time, sure as hell seems mathematically impossible for him not to have played a full (or close to) 40 mins in a majority of those blowouts. Also, unless your team is perenially on the cusp of the playoffs, you don't buy tickets for week 17 of the NFL expecting to see starters. That's a given. While I'm sure the fans of this Spurs/Heat game got their money's worth by seeing the Heat in action, I don't think many of them were under the impression that almost half of the starters wouldn't even be dressing up. Lastly, I don't ever recall saying I agreed with fines of any sort. Pretty much said I disagree with anything Stern does. I was just stating my humble opinion that I think because pro athletes are paid millions to put on show, they should be out there whenever they're able to.
Just because it's pro sports doesn't mean its only purpose is entertainment. The jets are entertainment too. Their job is to win. If you can win without your stars since they've played 4 games in 5 night or whatever, why wouldn't you rest them when they've been run ragged? It will help in the long run.
The Spurs have done this several times over the last couple years. The only reason Stern is saying anything now is because they're playing Miami and it's a national TV game. If the Spurs were playing the Bobcats and it was on Fox Sports Southwest or whatever no one would care.
is able to take advantage of the system, do you punish those who took advantage, or do you change the system so that it can not be taken advantage of?
Sometimes I imagine David Stern and Gary Bettman are like the Duke brothers from Trading Places. They bet each other a dollar and see who can be the dumbest league commissioner ever.
This is ridiculous. Do all commissioners grow up asipiring to be this guy?
Oh David $tern gotta love his antics
The only reason I'm watching the end of this game is this thread. Stern owes Mgo.
I understand what Pop is doing but it's still November. If your guys can't handle a regular season NBA schedule, then maybe they should retire. It's pretty weak.
Reduction ad absurdum
iPad autocorrect is annoying as he'll. my bad
Edit - godamnit
I don't think it's really playing too many games, but more of the 6 games in 9 nights thing
I swear that David Stern has been NBA commissioner for the last 75 years and looked exactly the same for that entire period. In fact, I found pictures.
David Stern in 2012:
David Stern in 1937:
Wow, fashion really is cyclical. It almost looks like he is wearing the same thing.
I know the chances of it happening are slight to never, but I would love to see a team/player just refuse to pay the fine, especially if it's an absurd one (which I realize is a slipper slope in itself too).
But something like this, or the Suh fine (seriously, if they ruled it wasn't intentional so he shouldn't be suspended, why are they fining him for something accidental?), I would love to see the commissioner's reaction to being told no. It's probably something the leagues need more of anyways
This isn't Russia. Is this Russia? This isn't Russia.
How exactly can a commissioner tell a team they can't rest their starters? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
In Soviet Russia player sits you!
When you let all the superstars pool in Miami, LA, Boston and the 4 or 5 other teams that can afford to pay these guys you don't have parity. You don't have parity you get 85% of the NBA teams out there with less talent than SA sits on their bench. Whats the diff?
Half the NFL is going to be fined in last week of the regular season.
We want a good game with big names! You will suffer for your rash decision!
He makes his living as a basketball coach by winning games and ultimately hoping to win championships. He is not a circus ring leader out there to wow the crowd. If Popovich played those guys and two got injured from just being worn out you can bet all the talking heads would be asking what the heck Popovich was thinking.
I don't think Stern has any case for this. If you don't like people resting players then don't schedule teams for 6 games in 9 nights
I honestly don't see any ground for which Stern can take action against the Spurs. Granted, I don't pay much attention to the NBA. Frankly I couldn't care less about the NBA. But that's Popovich's team. If he wants to rest his starters, let him rest his starters.
Teams have been fined for doing this before. The Lakers were fined for sitting Worley and Magic
who saw "sanctions" and then shitted my pants
The coach also has a responsibility to keep the integrity of the game intact. The commissioner has that responsibility too. Popovich has the right to rest his players but to rest four starters against a good team is the same as taking a loss. He could have rested one or two guys a night and spread it out over a couple of games.
If Popovich and the Spurs get punished they will have earned the punishment. Of course, it's not the end of the work either.
They should've won the game. If they did, that would have give a big FU to Stern.
if the money the spurs were fined went back to the fans who paid inflated ticket prices for a marquee game rather than back to the league and into the owners' pockets.
The NBA becomes more like professional wrestling every single day. This sounds like a Raw vs. Smackdown storyline.
In honor of Greg Popovich, I'm going to rest tonight instead of doing homework.
I did my homework and it appears you stole that from the top comment on the espn page.
This doesn't make me think of David Stern as less of a douchebag than I already did, and it gives the multitude of fans who've believed all the talk about meddling in the outcome of games, players being promoted by the league, rigged draft lotteries, approved or revoked trades, favoritism by the refs, and even rigging playoff series more credence by being so concerned about starpower in this fashion.
Let's look at this a little closer. Miami barely beat a depleted SA roster. Can you imagine how lopsided this game would have been if they played full strength? So obviously Popovich was watching out for the league here and decided to send his guys home to ensure a close game. And now Stern is going to fine them? He should just trust Pop's judgement. I mean I could get a good look at a Tbone steak by sticking my head up a butcher's ass, but wouldn't you rather take his word for it?
It was Popovich's call, but these guys make $14.5M, $12.5M, $9.5M, and $3.5M, respectively. I don't think the Spurs should be sanctioned, but these guys make too much money to have a rest day. Why isn't hockey on? Damn
What Stern could do, if his concern was really with the fan experience, is take a look at the long series of administrative decisions in the league office that led to a situation where this is the rational move for a coach to make. Why are teams forced to play four games in five days? Why is the incentive to win a regular season game so weak that an elite team can treat it like an 82-game exhibition season to prepare for the playoffs?
I don't see what's wrong with this, the Wizards have been resting their starters the first 12 games of the season
Why do I feel like Stern, Bettman, and Goodell are in a competition to see who can be the most-hated commisioner in the world?
Popovich can coach the way he wants. This may be a fight Stern wants to avoid
Here is an idea NBA, don't play 82 meaningless games that no one but die hards give a rats behind about, and you won't have to play 6 games in 9 nights. David Stern is such a tool anyway, it is hard to justify sanctions against a coach who is trying to win games. I don't even watch the NBA during the regular season, but the playoffs are ok.