OT Pistons/NBA Updates 6/19
- The NBA draft is on this upcoming Thursday night. The green room invitations were announced, i.e. the players the NBA are reasonably certain will be picked in the lottery will be present to when their names are called. Here are the names:
PG Kyrie Irving (Duke); F Derrick Williams (Arizona); C Enes Kanter (Turkey); PG Brandon Knight(Kentucky); PG Kemba Walker (UConn); C Jonas Valanciunas (Lithuania); F Jan Vesely (Czech Republic); SF Kawhi Leonard (San Diego St.); SF Chris Singleton (Florida St.); SG Klay Thompson(Washington St.); PF Tristan Thompson (Texas); GJimmer Fredette (BYU); PF Marcus Morris (Kansas); G Alec Burks (Colorado); PF Markieff Morris of Kansas.
- What this means for the Pistons: It looks like one of the Morris twins or Thompson will be our selection at #8, as they have had positive workouts with the Pistons and are green room invitees. Bismack Biyombo has long been my favorite for the pick, as he is an adept rebounder and shot blocker, two statistics the Pistons finished in *last* place last season. He would automatically be second on the depth chart, at backup C (Ben Wallace is on his last legs), whereas a PF would have to beat out Jonas Jerebko (soon to be extended, or at least tendered a qualifying offer; starter two seasons ago when healthy), Charlie Villanueva (making starter's money at 7.54 million), and Jason Maxiell (5 million a year). Alas, Biyombo is probably not Joe's pick, and I am frustrated to no end.
- Dwayne Casey was considered a frontrunner to fill the Pistons head coaching vacancy, but word is that now he's very close to taking the Toronto Raptors head coaching position.
- What this means for the Pistons: Lawrence Frank is now the favorite to coach the Pistons, and I would be on board with that decision. He set an American professional sports record by winning his first 13 games when taking over for the New Jersey Nets. He's a little man, literally (5'8"), with no competitive playing experience to his name, and would need fill his staff with some tough assistants. This is the perfect scenario for Bill Laimbeer to return to the Pistons, as Frank's lead assistant.
- Pat Riley has sent out a message to the rest of the league, in that he is not breaking up the Big Three. This team is two Mid-Level Exception players away from becoming a dynasty. Bleh....Golden State and Orlando have denied that the DraftExpress reported offer of Monta Ellis/Ekpe Udoh/Andris Biedrins (former Wolverine transfer) ever took place, but I doubt it. Can't blame GSW for trying, and short of offering David Lee, that's the best package they could come up with. At the deadline next season that deal would be far more enticing to the Magic, especially if picks were involved...
- What this means for the Pistons: Nothing. We aren't a free agent hot spot. We'll have to draft our big three.
- Last of all, and most importantly, the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement expires on the 30th of this month. In the end, all that matters to most fans is that no games are missed, but there has already been a casualty for avid followers in that the Las Vegas Summer League has been cancelled. This has historically been an opportunity to get a good first look at rookies, and some vets even play in the summer to support their new teammates (Kevin Durant, Ron Artest, and more).
- What this means for the Pistons: Well, with a new coach, we need every game we can get to prepare. We're likely losing Tayshaun Prince and Tracy McGrady to free agency, two vets that were key rotation pieces last season, adding a #8 overall draft pick, and returning a healthy Jonas Jerebko. There's been a lot of turnover for the Pistons, and if the preseason loses any games (there are 8), I'll be unhappy.
He is, but I want nothing to do with him. I'm not comfortable with anything about him. He's a Euro that can't shoot (55% or under from the FT line), without a definite position, and has strength concerns despite being 240 pounds. I consider him one of the biggest projects in the entire draft, as he needs to fill out (if he wants to play PF), improve his ball-handling and shooting (if he wants to play SF), increase his reliability as a willing scorer (he can't really create his own shot and is not an isolation player), and so on.
He could be good, but most of his strengths lie away from the ball, and I don't advocate drafting a player that needs others to make him better.
I'm a big NBA fan but moved to New York a while back and haven't followed the Pistons closely since 2008ish.
Do Gordon or Villanueva have any trade potential? It seems obvious that neither of them are team centerpieces, but both might have some value on a squad that needs complementary pieces.
due to their big contract that Joe D for some reason decided to hand out last off-season.
But not Gilbert Arenas bad. Villanueva especially is at a price that some GM could justify if he felt he were one or two pieces away.
They both are tradeable. Gordon would be sought after by a contender who is looking to add another scorer. I think Villanueva is a starter in a lot of systems, just not the Pistons. If you have a team that wants to run, he is the perfect PF. He can shoot from outside and runs the floor decently. Someone like Phoenix or GSW would be a good fit for him. As I stated above, I wouldn't mind dumping either of them to get some nice role players and build around our top draft picks over the next couple years. i don't think we are a quick fix team unless someone really wants Hamilton or Prince (sign and trade).
but is pretty much flirting untradeable category. It's a multi-year contract so it's hard to find a suitor who would be willing to take on a contract on two players who are better off of the bench than starting.
If both are expiring then it's a different story.
3 words= "Former Washington Wizards"
Caron Butler, Antwan Jamison, and Agent Zero. All had multi-year deals. All past their prime/best years (maybe Caron Butler has some years left but he is injury prone). All got traded!
Upvoted. Bad contracts may have to be packaged with picks and/or solid players, or in a swap with another toxic contract, but no player is immovable for negative reasons. Certain players may be untouchable because of how *good* they are and how intangibly important they are to a franchise ($$$), but when Baron Davis, Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas, and more can be moved, anybody can.
You're welcome.
It is my understanding that Villanueva was considered a value signing during free agency in 2009. He had just come off a 16/7 season, so a deal averaging 7.54 million a year wasn't too unreasonable.
Gordon was slightly overpaid at the time, which is the cost of snagging a main player from a division rival. Currently, 12.4 million per for the remaining three years of his deal is pretty excessive. We'll have a better idea of his trade value when a new CBA comes out.
Both deserve more minutes and shots to have an opportunity to merit their salaries.
Pistons ought to trade up and get the #2 from Minnesota. At that point you either get Kyrie Irving or Derrick Williams, with both players filling needs. Minnesota is desperate to get rid of that pick due to their fear that the Cavs just might take Derrick Williams. Dumars could get a decent deal on trading up.
Minnesota's silly. They already have Michael Beasley, who Derrick Williams projects to equal as in a best case scenario. I'm surprised they're putting a lot of their eggs in the Williams basket.
It's strange to write this, but despite the Timberwolves being such a poor team last season they don't really have many *needs*. Ricky Rubio/Wes Johnson/Michael Beasley/Kevin Love/Darko Milicic+Anthony Randolph is a solid core that could gel with time and good coaching. They should just keep stockpiling assets until they can swing a trade and consolidate talent, following the OKC blueprint.
If they were planning on keeping the #2 pick in the event that Williams goes first, they could use Kanter...having said that, there's no way Irving goes third or later.
we're talking about. His drafting of 3 PGs in one draft is legendary.
Kahn goes on the record and displays epic dumbassery often, but the 2009 draft has some mitigating factors.
a) Rubio didn't come over right away. They needed a PG immediately and Jonny Flynn was that guy.
b) Flynn made the All-Rookie 2nd team and was thus an instant contributor.
c) Ty Lawson was traded to Denver and is now a starter for them. Funny enough, he is a guy that I bet Minnesota wishes they had kept.
Rubio didn't want to come to Minnesota which led to the draft of Johnny Flynn.
Even with Flynn making all-rookie, he didn't turn out well like the Wolves envisioned.
They could've drafted a different player in a different position yet went on to draft another PG which is ridiculous whether Rubio did or didn't want to come to Minnesota. That's bad drafting by Kahn. IMO, Lawson will end up being the best of the bunch and is already better than Flynn. I do think that Rubio is overrated and will struggle against more athletic G.
Rubio has had crazy buyout issues ever since he became an NBA viable prospect. He's coming to Minnesota now, so I won't believe that he refused to come to the league or that franchise unless I hear it from his mouth or a member of his camp, which I haven't.
Flynn went from 28.9 to 18.5 minutes a game. It seems like an indictment against his abilities when the Wolves bring in journeyman Luke Ridnour to play ahead of him, but few can be expected to improve their games when they play fewer games, minutes, and have a reduced role from their rookie to sophomore seasons.
Rubio went from very overrated to underrated in a year's time. I don't think he'll ever live up to the #1 pick hype he had as a 16 year old, but I expect him to be worth his draft position, factoring in the two year wait to get him.
I just don't think that Rubio is as good as advertised. I have big concern about his lack of athleticism at PG. Considering the trend of fast, explosive, athletic PG that are coming into NBA like Westbrook, Rose, Wall, etc., I'm not sure if Rubio can ever become a decent defender especially in pick and roll situation. I'll give him that he has good vision and passing ability. However, he isn't a great shooter which limits him as a PG. Rondo was the same thing except that he's a good athlete who can get into the lane whenever he wanted to.
Maybe it's just my mancrush on Jason Kidd that is making me say this, but he was still able to control the game despite losing a step or two (or three) of quickness and being matched up against those quick PGs. They did knock off Westbrook's Thunder, after all, in a series in which Kidd exceeded most of his playoffs averages and Westbrook underachieved. Perhaps Rubio can do the same.
Ricky Rubio has great court awareness which could manifest itself in team defense. He has a stellar wingspan and is one of the leaders in steals in his league, and could terrorize passing lanes in the NBA. As far as his offensive passing numbers go, he has two 20PPG scorers to feed the ball to and will probably be the fourth option at all times. He really just has to focus on his man defense and his shooting and he'll be alright.
I'm not sure if the salaries work, but a trade of Daye, Hamilton, #8 and a 2nd round pick for #2 and Ridnour should entice them.
The salaries don't work.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3fsgq42
Minnesota doesn't have a player under contract that makes more than 5 million a year. We're not good trade partners.
It's a matter of personal opinion obviously, but I would really like the Pistons to move up or back in the draft. There just isn't much for us at #8 and I don't want to make a slight reach for someone just to fill a hole. Trading into the top 5 guarantees us a center (I prefer Kanter to everyone else) and trading back to 15-25 still leaves us good options; at least comparable to what is at 8.
Additionally, there are more teams with two picks in the first round than I can ever remember. I am surprised more people aren't discussing this. That leaves teams with many options and trade possibilities, especially, Utah and Charlotte.
I'm not impressed with Jonas Valanciunus, the other center projected to go top 5. He strikes me as Andris Biedrins 2.0, a starter on bad teams or backup on a good/mediocre team.
I'd take Enes Kanter on the Pistons in a heartbeat. In fact, I would take him first overall if I were the Cavaliers, who should give Ramon Sessions a better look at PG.
I figure you're referencing Biyombo as a possible reach player, but let's compare and contrast him with Cole Aldrich, who went 11th in 2010. Aldrich was three years older on draft day, less athletic, and had considerably less upside, yet he was widely held to be a candidate for the Pistons at #7 (thank GOD we got Monroe). A year later, Biyombo at #8 sounds much more reasonable than even Aldrich at the end of the lottery.
I'm with Jonathan Givony of draftexpress who has Biyombo as one of the top prospects of 2011 (he has him 3rd, I have him 4th). I'd consider him a steal.
I'm hoping beyond hope that our new owner authorizes Joe to purchase draft picks, for there's some talent at the end of the first round and beginning of the second, comparable to most other draft classes. I wouldn't mind filling out the roster with rookies.
I wasn't necessarily just talking about Biyombo but also the Morris brothers, Tristan Thompson, etc.
While I absolutely agree that I didn't want Aldrich, I think comparing the two is a bit of a stretch. They are completely different players (I know you are comparing where they are drafted and not their games per se). Is Biyombo, who is often compared to Reggie Evans, worth a top 10 pick? In my opinion, I don't think so, but that is just my opinion. I do understand why you like him. However, I absolutely hate Ben Wallace's/Reggie Evans' skill set. Our disagreement is probably more about personal preference and coaching style than anything else. i want a big man who can work with the other big on offense and defense. From looking at Biyombo's film, I don't see him ever being any form of offensive threat and another person that teams foul at the end of games. Although, I read he did hit 9 FTs in a row at a recent workout.
Derrick Williams will be a lot better than Beasley in a best-case scenario. Beasley is soft and a head case.
19.2 PPG, 5.6 RPG as the focal point of an offense as a 21 year old is good, no? I don't care how crazy and soft he is, I'll take that production any day.
on putrid teams are a dime a dozen.
That's not fair. When playing for a bad team you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you put up poor stats, you suck. If you put up good stats, then that's easy to do because you're the best player on a bad team. If you put up great stats, then you're just stat stuffing and likely the reason your team is so terrible.
It is possible to be a good player on a bad team and have your stats reflect it.
The Pistons will make the right pick. There will be some good big men available.
There are several Pistons blogs who know what they're tlaking about alot more than you do.
How could you possibly be ok with Frank?!?! Cool he went 13-0 to start a season, but he also went 0-16 to start a season! The best year he had with the Nets was only 49-33, and the furthest he ever got in the playoffs was the 2nd round. Any coach who comes with the disclaimer that he needs strong assistants around him is not a good option.
Biyombo would be starting in the front court with Monroe right away. No way does he backup Monroe when he compliment's him so well. Jerebko is more of a hustle player who provides a spark off the bench, not a starter who logs 40 minutes a night.
And losing McGrady and Prince aren't as big a deal as you make it sound. Prince has been contributing nothing for a few years now and McGrady is at best a back up point guard, in which we already have a better option in Will Bynum.
Like it or not, Stuckey is out point guard. He started to click down the stretch last year, and I think with a competent coach he'll be am above average starter who can peak at arouns 18 and 7 a game. We then have Bynum as his backup who is a nearly perfect backup.
At shooting guard is tricky. Rip will almost surely be gone. I really like Ben Gordon, but as a sixth man. If he can get 30 minutes a night consistently (!) he will be extremely effective. That however leaves an opeing at the 2, and I wouldn't mind seeing the Pistons make a run at Brandon Roy.
At small forward Austin Daye will most likely be the starter, unless we draft someone or move him to the 2. He has potential to be a good scorer, not someone who can carry the team every night, but average around 16 and put 25+ every five games or so. Jerebko can back up Daye here but we need a better back up small forward, as Jerebko will mostly be at the 4.
At 4 we will probably have the draft pick, with Jerebko and Maxiell backing him up.
At the 5 is Monroe with Wallace and Villenueva splitting his time between the 4 and 5.
I've said I would hire Bill Laimbeer, and I also said that it looks like Frank is the frontrunner as he "blew away" management in his interview. I have never given a glowing recommendation of Lawrence Frank, so you're putting words in my mouth there.
None of the head coaching candidates are can't-miss, and leading for the Pistons' services is like being the prettiest girl at special ed camp.
Rick Adelman isn't coming. Mo Cheeks wasn't even discussed. Dwane Casey didn't impress with Toronto. Mike Woodson hasn't shown that he can be any better than Flip Saunders, another regular season head coach. Isiah Thomas is a risky hire for a multitude of reasons.
Kelvin Sampson has only two years of professional coaching experience, but I'd understand if he were hired. I haven't heard of any other interviewed candidates, but again, the top three are Kelvin Sampson, Lawrence Frank, and Bill Laimbeer.
Every coach should want to have strong assistants, and any Pistons coach needs to have the full support of the franchise in his management of the players. That's not an indictment on Lawrence Frank as a candidate, but a fact given the state of things.
How can you declare Biyombo a starter when he's a) raw, b) 18, c) hasn't played a minute in the NBA yet...and decry Jerebko's achievements when he has been a starter for the Pistons in the past (at SF)? He's reportedly up to 240 pounds now, which better prepares him for minutes at the PF position.
Additionally, only one player cracked 40mpg in the entire league last season, and the most used Pistons player was Tayshaun Prince, with 32.8 minutes a game, and he only cracked 40 minutes six times last season. Even Rodney Stuckey, who has the usage rating typical of a superstar, only played 31.2 minutes per, and cracked forty nine times.
I haven't made a big deal about McGrady or Tayshaun leaving at all. You put words in my mouth there. Again.
McGrady was better at setting up the offense and creating for others than Bynum was, who is a better distributor than Stuckey. McGrady had an amazing connection with Greg Monroe that I wish could be replicated by Stuckey.
I want Rip to be moved, but have been let down twice before when the New Jersey/Denver Carmelo deal fell through, as well as the Cleveland deal in which Hamilton would have been waived. Sadly, I think they'll hold onto him, as he'll be an expiring contract next season.
There is no opening at SG, even if Rip is moved. Those minutes would go to Gordon, Stuckey, and Daye (who statistically played best at the 2).
I'll believe it when I see it when it comes to Daye. He hasn't improved tangibly or intangibly from his rookie to sophomore seasons. I don't think he's a starter on a good team in this league, rather an 8th-9th man utility player.
Villanueva exclusively plays PF for us, and is a poor rebounder at that position, and would be much worse at C. You've lost all credibility on that one.
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Luda can say it better than I can: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQnh7AGz4Js
You talked about how Prince and T-Mac were key contributors however this was a 50 loss team. They won't be missed.
Also, Stuckey won't be playing the two unless we (Allah forbid) draft Kemba Walker. He's a point guard, who would do best at point guard with a strong shooting guard to compliment him.
In all honesty I hope the Pistons go after Monta Ellis, he would be great for Stuckey.
Jerebko would get exposed as a starter at the four, just like Maxiell did/does when he is given extensive minutes. Both are good in spurts. Biyombo on the other hand has all the tools, it's not like this is the NFL where rookies are worked in. You can come in the the NBA and play right away. Biyombo gives us more as a starter other than Jerebko can. His skill set is exactly what we need at the 4.
"Key rotation pieces" means that they played alot. Which they did. He's not saying losing them is going to a problem, merely saying that there are minutes that need replacing.
Oh, and, yes...18 year old rookies not named "LeBron James" are always worked in.
I do wish we had flipped both of them for picks last year. There were reports of a Caron Butler+1st rounder for Tayshaun deal that Dallas offered and the Pistons declined. McGrady could have landed a few 2nd rounders from a team that needed a boost on the wings, as well.
This would be the second time that we'll have lost a 2004 starter without compensation.
I think Joe thought Prince's expiring contract was worth more than it was, yeah.
McGrady...I'm not sure what you could have gotten for him - he's pretty terrible.
and LOL@downvoting all my posts!
Is there some special criteria other than points required to vote on posts? I have well over 100 points but I am unable to.
Does the moderate bar show up at the bottom of posts? There should be a dropdown menu that says "normal" by default.
Overrated, Flamebait, Trolling, Offtopic, and Redundant are downvotes. The rest are upvotes.
Yeah, I know what it is, but it doesn't show up for me for some reason like it used to.
I checked your profile and you have a karma level of 0. That might have something to do with it. :-/
have Kwahi Leonard and Kemba Walker as their top 2 players for #8 overall pick. I'm not happy about it at all. Kemba, to me, is better off as a 3rd guard alas Ben Gordan and both are pretty much similar since they're undersized combo G who can score. The Pistons will need to shop Gordon aggressively to make room for Kemba.
As for Kwahi Leonard, he's not the kind of guy that I would spend a lottery pick. He's a tweener and would be much better suited in an uptempo system like Phoenix or NYK. The Pistons are a slow paced team that it's not a real good fit.
I've been reading this too. I can only hope that the Pistons are sending out multiple smokescreens.
Kawhi Leonard would make some sense, as it'd be nice to get a defensive-minded player in the backcourt, but I'm not sure if he's any more a starter than Austin Daye (who has more potential yet).
Leonard would fit with the current roster. To me, his best fit is with the uptempo team like NYK, Denver, etc. He's similar to Gerald Wallace which isn't a bad comparison but is he the right fit with the Pistons? Unless the Pistons plans to do uptempo system which I doubt, I just don't see it.
The Pistons are looking to trade down and there are teams who are interested at #8 overall but apparently they're going to wait to see how the draft unfolds before pulling the trigger. Houston is reportedly interested in #8 overall and is offerring 2 1st rounders. The Pistons can draft Morris and get their true PG and move Stuckey to SG with either picks.
The Pistons could go uptempo if they were to hire Lawrence Frank as the head coach. While they had perennial MVP candidate Jason Kidd on their roster, his willingness to push the ball maximized the talent they had on their roster. Kerry Kittles, Lucious Harris, Jason Collins, Dikembo Mutombo, Aaron Williams, and Rodney Rogers were their 4th-9th men in 2003 when they made it to the Finals. Our top three has yet to be determined, but I can tell you that the rest of our rotation has far superior talent and versatility in comparison.
If Stuckey moves to SG full-time it will be even harder to trade Ben Gordon and/or Richard Hamilton. Their trade values will fall proportionally to our increasing desperation to move them.
I've read reports lately guesstimating that Morris is going to Houston with the *38th* pick. I'd be shocked. I would absolutely take him on the Pistons with the #33 pick.
passing on Morris with their 2 1st round picks and still get Morris in 2nd round.
http://getsomepistons.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/putting-all-my-eggs-in-biyombos-basket/
Last-ditch effort to sell people on my man. <3 Even better, it's coming from my blawg! I'm looking forward to hearing any comments about the content so far. Just don't tase me, bro.