OT Pistons/NBA Updates 6/19
- The NBA draft is on this upcoming Thursday night. The green room invitations were announced, i.e. the players the NBA are reasonably certain will be picked in the lottery will be present to when their names are called. Here are the names:
PG Kyrie Irving (Duke); F Derrick Williams (Arizona); C Enes Kanter (Turkey); PG Brandon Knight(Kentucky); PG Kemba Walker (UConn); C Jonas Valanciunas (Lithuania); F Jan Vesely (Czech Republic); SF Kawhi Leonard (San Diego St.); SF Chris Singleton (Florida St.); SG Klay Thompson(Washington St.); PF Tristan Thompson (Texas); GJimmer Fredette (BYU); PF Marcus Morris (Kansas); G Alec Burks (Colorado); PF Markieff Morris of Kansas.
- What this means for the Pistons: It looks like one of the Morris twins or Thompson will be our selection at #8, as they have had positive workouts with the Pistons and are green room invitees. Bismack Biyombo has long been my favorite for the pick, as he is an adept rebounder and shot blocker, two statistics the Pistons finished in *last* place last season. He would automatically be second on the depth chart, at backup C (Ben Wallace is on his last legs), whereas a PF would have to beat out Jonas Jerebko (soon to be extended, or at least tendered a qualifying offer; starter two seasons ago when healthy), Charlie Villanueva (making starter's money at 7.54 million), and Jason Maxiell (5 million a year). Alas, Biyombo is probably not Joe's pick, and I am frustrated to no end.
- Dwayne Casey was considered a frontrunner to fill the Pistons head coaching vacancy, but word is that now he's very close to taking the Toronto Raptors head coaching position.
- What this means for the Pistons: Lawrence Frank is now the favorite to coach the Pistons, and I would be on board with that decision. He set an American professional sports record by winning his first 13 games when taking over for the New Jersey Nets. He's a little man, literally (5'8"), with no competitive playing experience to his name, and would need fill his staff with some tough assistants. This is the perfect scenario for Bill Laimbeer to return to the Pistons, as Frank's lead assistant.
- Pat Riley has sent out a message to the rest of the league, in that he is not breaking up the Big Three. This team is two Mid-Level Exception players away from becoming a dynasty. Bleh....Golden State and Orlando have denied that the DraftExpress reported offer of Monta Ellis/Ekpe Udoh/Andris Biedrins (former Wolverine transfer) ever took place, but I doubt it. Can't blame GSW for trying, and short of offering David Lee, that's the best package they could come up with. At the deadline next season that deal would be far more enticing to the Magic, especially if picks were involved...
- What this means for the Pistons: Nothing. We aren't a free agent hot spot. We'll have to draft our big three.
- Last of all, and most importantly, the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement expires on the 30th of this month. In the end, all that matters to most fans is that no games are missed, but there has already been a casualty for avid followers in that the Las Vegas Summer League has been cancelled. This has historically been an opportunity to get a good first look at rookies, and some vets even play in the summer to support their new teammates (Kevin Durant, Ron Artest, and more).
- What this means for the Pistons: Well, with a new coach, we need every game we can get to prepare. We're likely losing Tayshaun Prince and Tracy McGrady to free agency, two vets that were key rotation pieces last season, adding a #8 overall draft pick, and returning a healthy Jonas Jerebko. There's been a lot of turnover for the Pistons, and if the preseason loses any games (there are 8), I'll be unhappy.
I'm not a huge Pistons fan but I like to follow the team. Thanks for the updates, I think you do a great job covering the team.
:-)
No problem. The Pistons are tied with Wolverine football as my favorite teams, and it's nice to discuss both with such enlightened fans.
Are you the same person that did the "Pistons Update 6/12'?
If so, you should start a Pistons blog, seriously, because both updates have been great.
Ha, yep.
Thank you very much. It's an exciting time to be a Pistons fan, as the youth movement is under way and we have three draft picks to add to the mix this WEEK.
He's a little man, literally (5'8"), with no competitive playing experience to his name, and would need fill his staff with some tough assistants.
This makes no sense to me. Is there a fear that Frank would get beaten up if he doesn't hire "tough" assistants? Did Jeff Van Gundy have this same problem?
No. The Pistons players haven't respected the coach in years. Larry Brown grated on players and wears out his welcome very quickly. Flip Saunders simply wasn't a playoff coach, and Ben Wallace largely left because of his issues with how Saunders' used him in the offense. Michael Curry was ran out of town in one season. John Kuester faced a lot of public criticism from his players, from McGrady, Prince, Villanueva, and privately from Hamilton, Stuckey, Wallace, and more.
You want to hire as legitimate of a coaching staff as possible so that the inmates can no longer run the asylum. This is a young team that should be receptive to molding, and getting competent, demanding assistants would greatly aid Frank-or whoever takes over the position-in developing players properly.
Meant to put this in as well.
- Last of all, and most importantly, the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement expires on the 30th of this month. In the end, all that matters to most fans is that no games are missed, but there has already been a casualty for avid followers in that the Las Vegas Summer League has been cancelled. This has historically been an opportunity to get a good first look at rookies, and some vets even play in the summer to support their new teammates (Kevin Durant, Ron Artest, and more).
- What this means for the Pistons: Well, with a new coach, we need every game we can get to prepare. We're likely losing Tayshaun Prince and Tracy McGrady to free agency, two vets that were key rotation pieces last season, adding a #8 overall draft pick, and returning a healthy Jonas Jerebko. There's been a lot of turnover for the Pistons, and if the preseason loses any games (there are 8), I'll be unhappy.
I find it funny that Greg Monroe isn't even mentioned among the PF position players that Biyombo would have to beat out, despite the fact that he was arguably our best player last season.
Greg Monroe is a C. For a few games he started next to Ben Wallace as a PF in name, but the 5 is the position he will play next season and for years to come.
Here's our *true* depth chart:
Bynum
Stuckey and Hamilton and Gordon/White
Jerebko/Daye/Summers
Villanueva/Wallace/Maxiell
Monroe
A passing PG and a defensive center are and were my 1a and 1b targets for this offseason.
I think Monroe is a better PF than Center but I get what you are saying. I think Stuckey is still our starting PG unless something changes (i.e. Brandon Knight falls to us, we sign a free agent).
Our only hope for a true center is to trade up for Enes Kanter/Valanciunas or trade up to get Biyombo if he falls down the draft boards (which I think he is going to, in fact I don't think he will go in the Top 15 maybe even Top 20).
My best guess is that we take Kemba Walker or Kawhi Leonard at #8 and either take JuJuan Johnson, Jeremy Tyler, or Vucevic (if he isn't gone) in the second round.
I would like to see The Pistons make some other major moves this summer and purge their roster even if it means coming out on the "bad" end of some deals. A true PG would be great (I won't be surprised to see the Pistons take Darius if available inn 2nd round, but I think C is a more pressing issue). Getting rid of Stuckey, Hamilton, Gordon, and Villaneva would create some room for youngsters. I think Jerebko should be our starting SF, with Monroe and a Center; be it a rookie or Ben Wallace. This would make us one of the top rebounding units in the league and make up for our lack of shooting.
Monroe is best suited as a C defensively, but on offense he has shown that he can play in both the high and low posts. Last season he rarely had any plays ran for him and had to function as a garbage man, and he became a double-double threat in the process. If he develops a few go-to moves in the post he'll already be more competent on the block than most starting centers. He has great court vision and averaged 4 assists a game in his final season with Georgetown, so we would be well-served to put him at one of the elbows and run the offense through him for stretches.
Greg Monroe is underrated athletically but he should never be matched up against stretch fours unless a twin towers set up is overwhelmingly in our favor.
But he's not big or strong enough to be a true center, and is more a passing big man PF. He can get by at Center most nights, but would get killed at both ends by a real center. Ben Wallace types who make it work being that undersized are rare.
He is big enough, and he is strong enough. I'm not sure where you're getting that from?
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Greg-Monroe-1109/
As you'll see, he's 6'10" without shoes, 6'11"+ in them, which is his listed height by the NBA.
He weighs 250+, which is center weight. Compared to the listed weights of other starting centers in the Central Division, that doesn't stack up unfavorably; Joakim Noah-232, Anderson Varejao-260, Roy Hibbert 278 (which is no longer accurate as he's slimmed down a TON), Andrew Bogut-260.
I'll even extend this to the rest of the Eastern Conference; Kevin Garnett (likely starter, Jermaine O'Neal's old, and there need to be minutes at PF for both Glen Davis and Jeff Green)-253, Brook Lopez 265, Spencer Hawes 245, Amare Stoudemire 240, Andrea Bargnani 250, Al Horford 245, Kwame Brown 270, Joel Anthony-245, Dwight Howard 265, Javale McGee 250.
He's not giving up too much mass to many of these men.
As for his strength, the only figure I can provide you with is that he was able to bench press 185 pounds at the combine 15 times.
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=5&source=All&sort=14
That places him in at least the top 67th percentile of centers
Boston traded away their center, and forced Garnett to play the position. And we saw how that worked out for them. Ask yourself this- what position is Garnett retiring as when he enters the HoF? He's a PF. As are a lot of the guys you listed. Can he survive there, in a League where your only really great true center consists of Howard now? Sure. Lots of the guys listed do, and can. But we're talking where he's ideally suited, not where he can play. And he's better off at PF, with a true center next to him.
Boston didn't lose because Miami's Cs abused Garnett. He still put up sound statistics from the center position, which were in line with his regular season numbers when he was largely at PF:
|
SEASON AVERAGES |
|
|
Playoffs |
Team |
G |
GS |
MPG |
FG% |
3p% |
FT% |
OFF |
DEF |
RPG |
APG |
SPG |
BPG |
TO |
PF |
PPG |
|
First Round |
BOS |
4 |
4 |
34.0 |
0.455 |
0.000 |
0.923 |
3.8 |
7.5 |
11.3 |
3.5 |
2.0 |
0.8 |
3.0 |
1.8 |
15.5 |
|
Conf. Semifinals |
BOS |
5 |
5 |
38.4 |
0.431 |
0.000 |
0.625 |
1.2 |
9.4 |
10.6 |
1.8 |
1.8 |
1.2 |
1.4 |
4.0 |
14.4 |
|
Playoff Averages |
BOS |
9 |
9 |
36.4 |
0.441 |
0.000 |
0.759 |
2.3 |
8.6 |
10.9 |
2.6 |
1.9 |
1.0 |
2.1 |
3.0 |
14.9 |
|
Season |
Team |
G |
GS |
MPG |
FG% |
3p% |
FT% |
OFF |
DEF |
RPG |
APG |
SPG |
BPG |
TO |
PF |
PPG |
|
10-11 |
BOS |
71 |
71 |
31.3 |
0.528 |
0.200 |
0.862 |
1.2 |
7.7 |
8.9 |
2.4 |
1.3 |
0.8 |
1.6 |
2.1 |
14.9 |
Which of them are PFs? Stoudemire spent more time at C than PF, as did Horford, as did Bargnani, and those are the only players whose positions are in doubt. Yes, Stoudemire prefers playing PF. Yes, Atlanta wants Horford to be a full-time C and just can't find a competent big man to start alongside him (Collins? Really?). Yes, Bargnani is the worst rebounding and softest center in the league and Toronto fans are going crazy watching him run away from contact and caroms.
They still played center last season.
Monroe is both a PF and a C, which gives the Pistons the freedom in the draft to take the player that they think is best, not just by one position, but by both. http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/truebluepistons_110526.html
It gives the Pistons freedom in where they *play* Monroe, but they still need to acquire a legitimate true C for the roster. Ideally you place a F-C hybrid next to another F-C, like the Spurs did with Duncan and Robinson (who would have been a PF if we weren't a 7-footer).
Where do you get the Pistons taking one of the Morris twins? Neither twin is rated that high, and nobody else seems to see Detroit picking one of them.
Marcus is highly rated, Markieff is likely a 15-25 type guy. You are right though, I've rarely seen any mention of the Pistons taking either. However, Markieff is in the group working out with Biyombo and Thompson on Monday. Maybe just preparing in case they trade down?
If we're trading down, I'd rather stock up on early 2nd rounders. Some (relative) studs project to be available then, and there isn't much of a gap in talent between #10-30. I'd take Keith Benson and JaJuan Johnson over either Morris twin.
Twitter. A lot of reports came out stating that the Pistons were looking to go big with the pick and would pass up Kemba if he slides. Vesely has been reported to get off the board before #8, which would leave Joe with Biyombo/Thompson/Morris to choose from, and I have read that the latter two have impressed management during workouts. Marcus Morris is regarded as a top 10 prospect by many scouts, so he wouldn't be too much of a reach at #8.
Austin Daye and Jonas Jerebko have both been treated as tweener forwards by the Pistons (if you'll remember, Daye started at PF to open 10-11), and neither are going anywhere. Marcus has a lot of SF in his game, and it's time we bring in true positional players-or, at least those with defined roles-for a change. Versatility often can be a plus, but we have too many players stuck between positions.
Having said that, Biyombo is being brought in for another workout this week, so there's still hope!
that Morris isn't the pick. If they want to have a HR pick, Biyombo is the pick. His defense is NBA ready and has much bigger upside than Morris who isn't a great athlete and has short arm.
Biyombo not doing well in individual workout is expected because of his incomplete development and is much better suited in 5 on 5 setting like we saw in NIKE Camp Summit game against the best HS players in the country/world. He has done well in Europe league in which he led the league in blocked shot, rebounding and FT rate per 40 minutes. If Joe D pick Morris, I will have lost faith in Joe D.
I really hope that Joe D does the right/smart thing and take Biyombo. He reminds me of a young Hakeem. Raw offensively but outstanding defender.
I am by no means saying that Biyombo will have a career as successful as Hakeem...but he has the tools. They are the same height, have similar playing weights (Biyombo obviously has time to bulk up if necessary), and are both very athletic. Olajuwon is arguably the most coordinated 5-man of all time, and his footwork was impeccable due largely to his background in soccer.
Luckily for Biyombo and any other bigs looking to pattern their games after the greats, Olajuwon and Jabbar and Ewing all frequently tutor young players that reach out to them.
Olajuwon/Kobe Bryant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vww3lmLQQGM
""/Josh Smith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqny1IUa2Wc
""/Dwight Howard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mArHU1ewSog
The resources are available for these kids to achieve excellence, they just need to put the work in during the offseason.
Hakeem is raw offensively when he came to Houston and developed into a premier player in the league.
Bismack, by all accounts, have the work ethics and desire to become the best player he could be. The good thing about him is he is fluent in 4 languages including English so communication wouldnt' be a problem.
The Pistons desperately need interior toughness and is bad at rebounding, blocked shot in which they are either dead or near last in both categories. Bismack provides both and his defense is NBA caliber. He does an outstanding job of blocking shots without fouling. His sense of timing to go along with his freakish athleticism, I can see him winning DPOY or at least compete hard against Dwight Howard for years to come.
Exactly. Bismack is not an unintelligent young man. While most professional scouts compare his upside to Dwight Howard/Ben Wallace/rich man's Joakim Noah, I'll throw out another comparison :Emeka Okafor. Okafor is similarly bright, as he was graduated in three years from UCONN with honors (3.8 GPA); he was also a shot-blocking nightmare, averaging 4.2 a game for his collegiate career (!). He excelled at rebounding, with 10.6 a game over his collegiate career. Emeka, like Bismack, is more of a F-C tweener.
Okafor didn't exactly meet expectations (for a variety of reasons I can spell out if you ask), and in retrospect it seems goofy that he was strongly considered to go first overall, ahead of Dwight Howard, but the current incarnation of the Detroit Pistons could use a modern day Emeka Okafor.
cotDAMN I hope we take our chances on Biyombo if he's available.
with everything you said about Bismack. What sets apart from Bismack and Okafor is Bismack has freakish athleticism(not a knock on Okafor) that would make him one of the premier defensive PF/C in the league.
Like you said, I really want the Pistons to take Bismack. With the draft that is really weak with top talent, you might as well take a player who is a safe pick in a sense that he would be an outstanding defensive player in the next level but has the highest upside in which he could end up being the best player in the draft when all is said and done.
I really hope that individual workout isn't the reason why Bismack wasn't picked because it just further highlights his weaknesses even more. Bismack is much better in 5 on 5 setting in which he can fully display his athleticism, defense and shot blocking than in individual workouts. I suspect that teams will regret passing on Bismack because he's the kind of guy that I can see the Pistons build around defensively. He would be a great compliment to Greg Monroe IMO.
Upvoted for truth. Couldn't have said it better myself.
But in no way is he the same size as Hakeem. He's listed at 6'9". Hakeem was a listed 7 footer (who was probably more 6' 11"). MAYBE he can develop the offensive game, though if he had the potential of one of the top ten centers of all time, he'd be going #1 overall like Hakeem did over JORDAN; but unless he has a growth spurt, he'll never be as big.
Hakeem was 6'10" without shoes on, and considers himself undersized for the position. He's said on the record that he was forced to develop such a fluid, finesse post game to outquick/smart opposing centers, and that his moves were better-suited for smaller players.
and I'm not Chad Ford hyping up Darko, here. I don't think Biyombo is going to be Hakeem Olajuwon, one of the five best centers of all time (and champion, and MVP, and DPOY, etc.), but I do believe he's a great fit for this Pistons team and has more potential than most in this draft....which, when you think about it, isn't really saying much.
to young Hakeem is they are raw offensively and is an outstanding defensive player. Both are eerily similar entering into the draft.
Hakeem is an unique player, no doubt. He really developed into one of the premier C in the league and may be the only player that is worth passing MJ in the draft(which is something that many forget). He is a G/SF in a C body that he was able to pull off Dream Shake which is a move that is made for G in a post up situation. I consider him as the best C of all time because he was productive but did it against the best competition possible like Ewing, Admiral, etc.
Bismack is similar in size(well in terms of height) that the comparison can be made with young Hakeem. However, Bismack can get bigger and become a force at C in which he can use his athleticism and strength to his advantage. I can see Dwight Howard comparision in the sense that they have similar skillset at C but Dwight Howard is a manchild at 7'.
As you already know, I have a man crush on Bismack because I do see the potential of what he can become down the road,
I'm sure people will call him undersized for the C position, but as I've said elsewhere, what's more important is his standing reach. At 9'3", he's in the top 15 of active players and projects to be both a good man and team defender. If he continues to work on his leg and core strength there isn't a post player in the league that will have their way with him.
And actual height for the other. Either you go with the inflated listed heights (which was 7 feet for Hakeem...and 6'9" for Biyombo) or you go with how tall they actually are. Which means you have to cut the inches off for everyone (whether current or future hopeful Pistons). I mean, look at what they listed Barkley at, and that was a wish and a prayer.
I wouldn't freak if they drafted Biyombo. I wouldn't get excited either. But really, I'm not seeing anyone at the spot they're in that would be exciting, unless they moved up. Maybe a few that would be a big "huh?". But we'll see. You can root for that pick....but stick with hoping he can be like Ben Wallace before you hope he can develop a little like Hakeem.
isn't 7' tall. He's actually 6'10" and Bismack is a true 6'9". That's pretty comparable.
This is why I argue that the NBA should list all players without shoes, to level the playing field and be accurate-some of these guys have 2 inch soles FFS-as well as updating weight measurements at the beginning of every season.
I was an Amir Johnson fan and every summer we'd hear reports about him putting on weight and growing an inch or two, all the way up to 6'11" 240, yet NBA.com still lists him at 6'9" 210. It's hard to take offseason buzz at face value and results in convoluted arguments with the current setup.
Hire either Isiah Thomas or Bill Laimbeer. Lawrence Frank is definite NO! He won with Byron Scott's team and it broke up, he won nothing else. He may have won his first 13, but he lost his last 19 or however many they lost.
Speaking of Byron Scott, his Cleveland Cavaliers lost 26 games in a row. He's still a good coach, and he'd be a strong candidate for any open head coaching position. It's not really fair to judge Lawrence Frank about not being able to plug all the holes on a sinking ship.
I don't understand why the Pistons would wait until after the draft to hire a coach. Wouldn't it be smarter to make a draft pick based on your coach's preferred style of play? Seems like they've got it backward.
It's only been two weeks since Kuester has been fired, and even that was delayed by the formal sale of the team to Tom Gores and his group. With a field of coaching candidates that haven't really distinguished themselves, I'm glad that they're doing their due diligence in interviewing. It could be worse, even, as teams have gone into the draft without *general managers!* in the past.
Why are we not expecting to get Mcgrady back? I think we had him for the veteran's minimum last year or w/e it was (he was cheap) and ended up being a great part of the team. Can we not afford his raise?
Or even if we can yeah I guess if I were him I'd want to go to a current contender as a sixth/seventh man rather than a rebuilder like the Pistons.
Also, Riley might not have a choice but to break up the Big Three if the league goes to a hard cap. That or he can have a really bad roster of supporting players next year. I mean everyone was saying how bad the supporting cast was but really Mario Chalmers, Udonis Haslem, Joel Anthony played well enough that if the Big Three were on their game they should have won a championship. I don't see the situation getting any better next year.
He oscillated between starting and being out of the rotation. Like every perimeter player on the team, he had his chain yanked by Kuester and his indecisive rotations.
He can get a raise elsewhere, a more defined role, more playing time, all on a better team elsewhere.
Our money's tied up for now, while we figure out what to do with Tayshaun (sign and trade?) and if we're going to extend Stuckey and/or Jerebko. We'll be capped out by then, and would have to dip into our MLE or Bi-Annual Exception on McGrady, which is unlikely.
Everything that I have heard from people that work at the palace is the lock out will happen.
That is bad for the league, and fans, and myself( I am a freelance camera op.) If they dont play, I dont get paid. I hope this does not happen. I have heard that it will go to january, or the whole season will be lost.
The owners and players will fight it out, and the real people that will suffer are the people that work at the arena and local resturants.
That's the worst possible pick for the Pistons at #8 overall especially Morris.
You can't make any assumption based on the invitee list so Bismack(which I hope is the pick) is still in play because the Pistons are looking hard at him.
Well, you can. Obviously the green room invites aren't infallible and somebody slides out of the top 14-15 every year, but it's a reliable barometer of teams' draft boards.
In 2010 the only "fall" was Luke Babbitt to #16, when the Bucks selected Larry Sanders.
In 2009, Jrue Holiday went #17, Eric Maynor #20, and BJ Mullens #25.
In 2008, Darrell Arthur fell to #28 and DeAndre Jordan to #35.
In 2007, only Nick Young fell out of the top 15, selected at-you guessed it-#16.
As you can see, it'd be pretty remarkable for Bismack Biyombo to be drafted #8 when the NBA can't be expected to see him go in the top 15. I'm hoping for an exception this year.
but the fact that Bismack is projected anywhere from #5 to #25 that NBA can't invite him knowing draft projection of Bismack. They want to invite players whom they are comfortable will be taken in the lottery i.e. their projection has limited range in which they are almost expected to be a lottery pick.
as poorly as the Pistons have recently. Well done!
Have you ever thought about doing a Pistons blog or writing for one that might already exsist? You seem very well informed and opinionated which makes for good reading, like Brian and Simmons do.
I don't know of any successful Pistons blogs at the moment. If you are tuned into any, please let me know. I do currently post at wtfdetroit.com, which is a message board (my handle is lospistones) that is sadly dying out, and used to post at RealGM until I got banned for beefing with a moderator. whoops. I never touched pistons.com or espn, because, well, the posters are severely low quality.
I am considering starting my own, though. :-) The ironic thing is that my friends call me "gerg" and want me to name it "thegergreport".
I agree, you really know your stuff. I consider myself a very knowledgable basketball fan especially since I have coached at the high school level for 7 years, but you are very good with your comparisons and reasoning. Good Job. I hope to have further banter in the future.
Thanks.
I hope to coach as well, once my career is off the ground and I have children (hopefully in that order). Hope you hang around until the season starts, whenever that is, so we can pick apart the Pistons' coaching :-)
Appears to also be in the discussion.
In any case, we are a long way from being competetive.