OT: Pistons. I can't look.
Much of this has to do with the signing of two garbage FA two years ago.
and giving them HUGE offers right off the bat instead of lowballing them (Because every team was pining after Charlie Villanueva).
Although I agree that we overpaid for Ben Gordon, it is unfair to blame those two signings on all of the pistons woes. In all honesty, this year Chuck has done exactly what's expected of him while Ben Gordon is having an off year but not too far from his career averages. The Pistons have an identity issue. Joe needs to figure out what direction he wants to take this franchise and he then he needs to make moves.
I said much, not all. I am not blaming BG or CV, I am blaming Joe D for thinking they were good.
This team is a mess, it's poorly constructed, the pieces don't fit, Kuester is a bad coach, Stuckey isn't a point guard, the young guys hate the old guys and vice versa but Charlie V. has actually been a bright spot. He's gotten himself in to great shape, he's playing defense and unlike everyone else on the team, he's been a good team guy who isn't taking shots at the coach. He's not a bargain a 7mil but he's worth it. Gordon on the other hand to pay him 11mil/ to back up Hamilton is, well hard to explain.
I've been watching Charlie V since I lived in Milwaukee, and he's soft defensively, he can't guard the 4, he's a chucker with no post game, he's not athletic, he has no competitive edge or mean streak, i.e., Rasheed, and now he's way overpriced. The Bucks couldn't get rid of him fast enough. He gets his points, but is rarely efficient.
I heard Charlie V was a cancer to his team.
lol or something like that right
I don't think you are watching this team, he is the best post player on this team and it's not close and he's their second best post defender not too behind what's left of Wallace. But that's not saying much this team is really bad especially up front. All I am saying is that him and his contract are hardly one of the biggest reasons this team is so awful.
Once they find a way to get some young talent or picks for Tay or Rip or whomever, we should be alright. There's a decent young core there I think, but it's going to take some time.
Glad you brought up "Kue." I think he is horrible. I thought the Curry hire was a buddy-buddy "I'll give him a shot and see if he can get hired somewhere" move. When I watch Kuester coach I find myself wondering if he is even remotely qualified... he never breaks up runs with time-outs. He can't really connect with the players, can he? I wonder. I just think he has done a horrible job. I also HATED the CV signing. the guy can hardly run. I mean he is just terrible. My opinion.
I kind of miss having Flip Saunders around and making the Eastern Conference finals every year by default......that doesn't sound so bad right now does it?
I am 100% convinced that John Hammond was the brains behind our whole management because as soon as he left we seemed to fall apart. Now look at Milwaukee, they are definitely an up and coming team in the East. If John would have still been here when Joe D wanted to trade Chauncey Billups he would have just slapped him across the face and said no. Last hope we can have is the #1 overall pick and draft an amazing point guard (should have done this last year so we could have gotten Wall, but oh well)
Anyone who watched us fight Boston for half a decade before finally toppling them in the 80's, has to be sick watching what we've become?
Would be sick, but stopped watching when Iverson got inked...not hating on AI, but that deal was the opposite of the answer (not the question, but the WRONG answer).
It was more of a deal to unload Chauncey off the books than to bring in AI.....there was no intention of keeping AI and Dumars had thought Stuckey was going to be the future due to his performance against Orlando in the playoffs.
if Joe D would have used the extra cap space to sign good players that fit well together.
I stopped watching their games the year before Sheed left. It's not like watching UM lose where it's just disappointing because they lost. It's disappointing because they put seemingly no effort in and seem satisfied to collect their paychecks. Remember before Billups left and people talked about their window closing with a team with Rip, Tayshaun, Stuckey, Maxiell? Who's still on the team? Dumars has made some great moves in the past but his bad decisions have finally caught up with him
It's sad, and I am ashamed to admit it, but I have stopped watching the Pistons altogether. I grew up with the Bad Boys (born in '83) and would watch every game I could when I was a kid, often sneaking out of my room after going to bed so I could catch the end.
However, the product on the court has become unwatchable -- the effort is non-existent. I love Joe D, he is my favorite Piston of all time, but this team has become an absolute train wreck.
Blot out the years of Teal Uniforms, horse's heads, and #3 picks? It's ugly, but it's been ugly before. I mean, the list of GM's after McCloskey and before Dumars roll right out of the HoF list...
The main problem is that Detroit is not a preferred destination for free agents in any sport that doesn't involve ice and sticks. Usually, basketball involves neither. The FA signings were terrible, and Joe seems to have lost his "magic touch" on trades. Mostly, though, I think Joe got the best of so many trades that clubs are now afraid to offer him a bona fide deal, and he eventually takes lowball offers because he has to.
Besides the FA's, though, Joe's real mistake was the Darko Debacle. The Pistons probably would have won at least one more and possibly two more NBA Championships with Melo. To me, that was the deal that started the downward spiral. Sadly, the spiral is now at its "fast" end where the tail is about to break the sound barrier.
Maybe Tom Izzo gets that "offer he can't refuse" at the end of this season. If his Spartans continue to disappoint him and play with no effort, he may be more likely to take it. I think he would only have a fifty-fifty chance of success in Detroit, but that's about fifty percent more than Kuester has.
Free agents like teams that are good and pay well. If you build it...
Being the coach of the pistons isn't exactly a job you can't refuse.
Ya i really dont know how Joe D still has a job with the pistons...I mean seriously. Horrible drafts, signings, and trades. its embarrassing and i have watched just 1 game and that was the opener.
Does he even have a boss to fire him right now? Is it Davidson's daughter?
Karen Davidson was Bill's... wife? Yeah, she's definitely young enough to be his daughter, or even granddaughter, but she's not. I believe she was an administrative assistant before marrying the billionaire Bill.
Bill Davidson was the best owner Detroit could've asked for, and I was very sad to see him go. I don't blame him for marrying a relatively young woman with no real business experience. However, leaving her in charge of an NBA franchise has crippled the organization and done damage to the Davidson name.
Dumars has his hands tied at this point and is just waiting to be fired by the next owner.
Multiple times when asked in his later years what his plans were for the Pistons after he was gone, Bill always said it was for his kids, and would stay in the family. Then before the ground was even hard over Davidson his wife is selling off everything he owns. He left her in charge with the idea that it wouldn't be a fire sale. Little did he know...
Why would anyone listen to your opinion after you admit to have watched only one game all year?
even though he has only seen one game, he is accurate about the bad signings, horrible drafts, and silly trades. is he not?
double post...but ya the sale of this team is really holding this team back.
it's about time joe takes a rainbooooooow outta town.
Might as well be totally different sports.
my oldest son was born. That clip was great though... even the arcaic CBS opening music got me excited and brought back memories of when I actually did like the NBA...
I just cannot stand the modern NBA game and long for the days where a premium was had on playing solid, physical defensive game (ie. Bad Boys). The game back then was as much about strategy and "out smarting' your opponent on the floor.
This in stark contrast to todays game, which demonstrates an extreme lack of defense, highlight driven behavior, game intelligence lacking on court play that causes me to react as strongly as one can/has to "The Horror" or seeing "The Doom" on the field at the Big House.
Its a shame too, given that players physical ability has evolved. NBA players are so gifted athletically but given the above, these abilities have been wasted away. The only way I go to a Pistons game anymore is if the tickets are free and I have nothing else to do.
The only time I watch a NBA game on TV is to catch Charles Barkley at the breaks.
Then I drink and find the clicker.
was from a crash in Los Angeles, so it fits nicely with my other post in this thread about the Clippers. Compared to the Clippers train wreck, the Pistons are like a kid falling off his bicycle and skinning a knee.
The Clippers were a train wreck that never got cleaned up. The owner is cheap, so any talent that gets drafted gets lowballed on their next contract and leaves for free agency (also no good free agents get signed).
The Pistons have climbed the mountain, crashed, climbed and crashed again. It hurts all the more when you've seen Pistons playing championship quality ball, compared to what's on the floor now.
I had the privilege of sitting courtside for the first time in my life two weeks ago. Got to see the Clippers and Portland's own Trailblazers. Hearing Baron Davis talk shit was fantastic; too bad his team owner hates him. That been said, both teams are a hot mess. Throw Portland in the mix with Clip and Pistons.
The fact that Illitch lowered his bid because of some funky revenue projections says quite a bit about the state of the team. Until the ownership situation is remedied, this team will continue to struggle.
I realize this is a Pistons thread, but I live in LA and somewhat follow the Clippers. The alternative is the Lakers and Kobe, and let's just say, I'm not a fan. I've been amazed by Blake Griffin ever since we played them in the NCAA tourney. I realize that's not a long time, particularly considering he was out all last year, but that guy is just ridiculous. He practically gets eye-level with the rim on some of his dunks. I was just thinking today how the Spurs, Celtics, etc. had dramatic improvements when they added Duncan, Bird, etc., but the Clippers have only gotten worse, if that's possible.
This team is really tough to watch, no doubt. But we've been there before and we'll get back again. I'm not really sure which pieces we should keep, especially Stuckey... I like the way Charlie V plays, and as far as Ben Gordon goes, it's tough to say. We have like 5 two-guards, so he doesn't get the shots he needs to get hot and score a bunch.
By the way, I've watched probably 15 games this year. I think I've maybe seen two wins.
The team's biggest issue is redundancy. Its "point guards" are me-first scoring types (Stuckey, Bynum, and now even McGrady backing up on occasion). It has, as you say, too many 2's and 3's on the team (Rip, Tay, McGrady, Gordon, Daye, Summers, Jerebko, even Villanueva plays basically like a 3), and then you have posts with serious liabilities (Wallace with no O, Maxiell is basically Ben, trading worse D for slightly less abysmal O, Monroe who is too soft, Wilcox is worthless, and as I said, V playing out of position). Joe went way too crazy with this "versatility" schtick, grabbing guys that can play multiple positions. Lost the fact that he had complementary pieces in the prior run with Sheed and Billups and that's what works.
The problem is Joe has zero leverage with trading Rip and Tay because everyone knows they're easily available. I'd honestly just get rid of both for whatever he can get and just play the young guys (Stuckey, Gordon, Daye, Villanueva, and Monroe) and just play an up and down O-style to pick up some W's where you can and hope for a good pull in the draft.
Yup. Too many 2s and 3s. And as much as I've wanted to see Maxiell play well and respect what Ben USED to be, we don't have offensively skilled big men or sound positional defenders on the inside. Pick the few pieces you want to keep, and ship out the rest. Tay and Rip, I love you but you can't play like you used to.
I watched the game with my old man tonight. As we continually watched Blake Griffin and the the rest of the Clippers get uncontested dunks every other time down the floor, my dad mentioned how guys like Laimbeer and Mahorn would have never stood for that. Now I realize that basketball isn't as rough now as it was back then and there will never be another Bad Boys squad, but it would be nice (for the fans at least) for the players to show a little passion (and that doesn't mean Rip crying like a little girl to the refs every time he doesn't get a call). I usually don't condone booing at any sporting events, but the lack of effort tonight deserved it.
I certainly do miss the days of the Bad Boys, when opponents rarely got easy layups.
For your old man.
Brian Cook dropped 12 on the Piston's tonight.
I think BEANO Cook could drop 12 on them.
I have no idea how it would work out, but I wouldn't mind giving Bill Laimbeer (assistant at Minnesota) about coaching once they figure out the ownership thing.
I don't care for Kuester and Joe hasn't done much lately to inspire much hope, other than for a high draft pick.
...I am cutting the Pistons a bit of slack this year.
I mean, it's not like they're the Lions.
The pistons do funny things like give starter minutes to people on the bench, not play good players like Austin Daye, and switch lineups every game. No consistency at all. Every game I watch makes me think that '02-'06 was just a lucky fluke : /
I was at the game tonight.
It really was a fun, great game to watch. The last time I saw Blake Griffin in person he was kicking Zack Novak in the face during and-ones. Tonight he was embarrassing NBA players during and-ones.
I feel like I've come full circle.
Back when the Pistons signed Ben Gordan their were some excited fans on this site. As a Bulls fan and watching the dude every night said thank god. Please take him away from my team and D.Rose. He was a "me" type of player for the Bulls and they didn't even bother to match the offer. I tried to warn people that he is nothing more than a avg NBA player who may save your ass a night here and there with some hot shooting. A under sized guard who plays 0 defense.
The Pistons didn't help things by signing a bargain bin coach. They are a complete mess roster wise. Good luck.
Might boost his value(more minutes). But, still Ben Gordon is an average starter with a scoring role. If he had better players around him he would be a good piece to the puzzle. Of course the Pistons don't have the talent level on the roster. This team doesn't mesh well. Pistons need a star player, plain and simple, and Ben Gordon is not a complete player/star player.
This team deserves to wear the teal jerseys(ugly), hopefully it gets better in the next few years. Changes and good high draft picks need to be made.
Frowny face :(
The Pistons will be a perenial lottery team from now on. If I'm a good basketball player and in the market for a new team, the last place to cross my mind would be Detroit. People are trying to -leave- Detroit, not move into it.
*rolleyes* Lions didn't have a top 10 pick in the draft for only 3 years the last decade and look how much good that has done them.
Good NBA teams are built with excellent draft choices surrounded by good free agents. The Pistons have neither of those things.
Don't cry for me Argentina. I'm a Cavs fan who had to make MY "decision" on season ticket renewal last January BEFORE LeTraitor made his. So I'm now stuck paying over 13k this year for two great seats to watch really shitty basketball.
1. No true point guard. Stuckey, McGrady, and Gordon are all combo guards that can create for themselves, but nobody else. I would take Stuckey on me team any day....if he was coming off the bench. He'd be a great 6th man, but we have to depend on him as our starting PG.
2. To post offense. Again, we have three players that are very similar. Wallace and Maxiell are undersized post players that play good defense because of their energy. They offer little to nothing on the offensive end. Monroe plays decent D and isn't a threat to score on offense. He is a pretty decent passing big man though. Then there's CV. I don't think I've seen him post somebody up all year. He's a poor man's Sheed (in his last couple years with the Pistons when he spent the majority of his time floating around the perimeter) except with no D.
3. Our effed up rotation. I look at the box scores every game and it seems like there is no consistency when it comes to minutes. Monroe will play 12 minutes one night and 25 the next. When Daye plays, he usually plays alot, but some games he doesn't see the floor at all. I know it will be different every game b/c of matchups, but you'd think there'd be a little consistency.
I think the greatest need the Pistons have is at point guard. Of course, there are numerous other problems like the complete lack of intensity (I personally stopped watching when they blew a 20-point lead to the Raptors a few nights ago -- I was disgusted).
Believe it or not, I think there is some potential on this team. The Pistons picked up two guys who could shoot it from outside (CV and BG), another with a decent 3-ball (Daye) and a big man with passing skills (Monroe). My guess is that, with the pickup of the shooting bigs, the plan was to stretch the floor and play more of a finesse game. Tayshaun, McGrady and Hamilton are all on the downward slopes of their careers, but they can also shoot the ball.
The problem is no one can distribute the ball to the shooters properly. The best point guards can create opportunities for the shooters and then dish it out at the perfect moment. Stuckey, who like Billups began as more of a combo guard, never made the necessary transition to the point guard mentality. He's a shoot-first, pass-second sort of player. Bynum has started to make that shift, although he's undersized and too turnover-prone.
I have no idea why we have not drafted a legit point guard in ages. We need to blow up the season, play the backups, get a good spot in the lottery so we can get the next John Wall.
We don't need to play the back-ups to land a good spot in the lottery.
I'm loving this thread. I never, ever thought I'd experience schadenfreude at mgoblog. But I am.
When the Celtics, Lakers, Heat, Magic, and maybe even eventually the Thunder are going to be winning all the titles, than having our #1 draft pick wasting away the best years of his career on a team that can't get him a second star that would ever give him a chance to beat those teams. To put it in terms you can understand - you're building a good team during the Jordan era. They win games, but they'll never win anything that matters, and by the time the window opens, the Bulls will be rebuilding again.
The Pistons faded when they traded Chauncey for AI
It killed the team, they made the playoffs, but were swept by the Cavs. I wish Chauncey was still a Piston. :(
Gone are the days of DEEEEEEEEEEEE-TROIT BASKETBALL™
The selfish careless culture started w players like rip and sheed after they won the title. Ever since then they have thought they are better than they are. I believe this has poisened players like stuckey who don't play with any heart. I hate this team and I hope they just get rid of everyone and start over. Keep Jerebko but that's about it.
Tayshaun to Orlando for Gortat and Brandon Bass. Orlando gets a player at SF who can make their front line really long defensively (which is what got them to finals with Hedo at SF). Pistons get a couple of solid bangers.
Rip (with Terico White, Summers) to Chicago for Taj Gibson (with Ronnie Brewer, C.J. Watson, Kurt Thomas). Chicago fills its hole at SG. Pistons get one of the only truly promising young big men in the game--would pair well with Greg Monroe.
PG: Stuckey, Bynum
SG: Gordon, Brewer
SF: Daye, Jerebko (next year)
PF: Gibson, Villanueva
C: Gortat, Wallace, Monroe (starting next year)
Not competing for a championship, but lower-seed playoff team, at least. Nothing can be done to make this team a contender anytime soon, save a miraculous success in the draft.
I used to watch every Pistons game in the 04-05 season, when I was in 5th grade. I liked basketball but I was never as big a Pistons fan as I was Red Wings. It may have been because that was the year of the NHL lockout, but the NBA was still fun to watch then. Then in 05-06 I went back to watching the Red Wings for the most part but still watched the Pistons (I think that was the year they won something like 60 games?). Since then I've never really watched the NBA at all and now it's like watching friggen poker. I'll stick with college basketball now.
You were in 5th grade in 2005? Jesus, I feel old.