Pretty amazing they were able to find a taker considering Gordon's cap hit. Even if Maggette does absolutely nothing, this seems like a win.
Pretty amazing they were able to find a taker considering Gordon's cap hit. Even if Maggette does absolutely nothing, this seems like a win.
Now they just need to drop Charlie V
Dumars inked Gordon (a 6th man) to a pricey contract, and tossed a bunch more money to Charlie...terrible production and a good deal of wasted money. Did he really think those 2 signing were going to push the Pistons over the top? He set the franchise back at least 3 years with those deals.
Well this will be the 4th year since that happened and they aren't even close to being a playoff team. Joey D has made some questionable decisions these past 4 years.
I couldn't agree more. I always felt that Joe D was trying to find the "Diamond in the rough" with all his free agent signings and draft picks. He went out on a REAL far limb with Darko. Tayshaun paid off well at the begininng but wasn't that great the past few years. He's made more questionable decisions than good ones for the organization. He should have been let go a while ago. I can't imagine where the organizatino would be if he would have drafted Carmelo.
The '04 Pistons would've never geled with Melo needing the ball as much as he does. That's really the only silver lining of drafting Darko in '03.
Everyone wanted Darko at that spot. That wasn't a limb.
I'm sorry but anyone executive/scout who wanted Darko is an idiot.
Its just like at the NFL combine when someone blows the doors off his position group by posting great "measurables", gets picked in the Top 20 and is promptly out of the league in 3 years with 5 different teams.
Especially in basketball I would much rather take a 4 year college player (or even a 1/done)who can get me a solid double/double a night than than a Euro giant who hasnt shown or done squat.
Just look at the recent Euro trend in the NBA; how many of those picks worked out for those teams?
You're using hindsight to say it was a bad decision in 2003. We know it was a bad decision NOW. But back then, no analysts or scouts shoot their heads at the pick. Only fans that had never seen him play.
And your statemtn about rather taking a college player doesn't even mean anything. Of course you're going to take a guy that gives you a double-double over a guy that won't do anything. The problem is you don't know what a guy is going to give you.
Go look at all the mock drafts and analysis about Darko before the draft. Most everybody liked him.
This is the problem with the history - it lets people justify their past feelings without taking into account the fact that decisions had to be made with the present information only. At the time, the top 4-5 players in the draft were LeBron #1 and then a distant group of Darko, Bosh, Melo, and Wade. Yes, three of those four have panned out to varying degrees, but at the time Darko was being touted as a better version of Dirk and there were legitimate questions about guys like Wade (older, potential for injury) and Bosh (a 1-and-done who had good but not great college stats). Even Melo, winning a title and being a leader on that team, had questions since he wasn't a great defender and looked like a high-volume scorer. Darko had his flaws, but he was a big guy with a nice stroke and the ability to be a great inside-outside player.
So yeah, Joe screwed up that pick, but if he had taken Melo or Wade, Darko would have simply done 3rd or 4th. Joe didn't reach; he just chose the wrong guy. It happens, but don't act like you "knew" it was a bad decision and somehow scoring 15.5 pts and grabbing 9 boards in the ACC was better than a guy who showed a good deal of promise playing against older players in Euro leagues.
Like everyone else said, hindsight and all that.
While I wanted the Pistons to take DWade at the time as I had fallen in love with his game at Marquette, Darko was the best choice.
At that time the Pistons did not have Sheed, and were in need of another big man. They didn't have a team who could accommodate Carmelo or DWade.
That being said, they totally screwed up Darko. They should have realized that LB doesn't play rookies, and that Darko needed a ton a playing time to develop, so he needed to stay overseas. He could have continued his natural progression, and been ready to help the team in a number of years.
Despite all the bullshit Darko had to put up with, he is still one of the better shot blockers in the game, and a good interior post defender. He moves very well on offense and defense.
Had he been given proper time to cultivate his offensive game, he could have turned into one of the better big guys in the league.
Fun fact: Rob Pelinka is Corey Maggette's agent.
They still have the amnesty, right? That could go to Charlie V for sure.
Then they can go out and spend that money on some much needed wing scorers.
They wont have any money until 2013, when they'll have a buttload. Unfortunately that year doesn't any wing scoring. Best hope is for a big in free agency that year. Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum will be unrestricted that offseason as of now, and Serge Ibaka will be restricted. Pick up one of those, draft a solid backup big Thursday (Henson, Leonard) and you'd have a decent core along with Knight, Stuckey and Monroe.
LOL. As a Pistons fan I like to dream, but there is absolutely no chance Dwight Howard or Andrew Bynum will ever sign with Detroit.
Would be way too much money for a guy you're never going to win with. He needs to at minimum be your second best player, and probably 3rd to be a championship contender. He'd come in here and not be someone who could lead this team to a ring (which is salary would dictate), and would be a horrible example for the younger guys. He's down low help a contender who needs some size in the middle gets to put them over the top. Not a superstar acquisition.
But yeah, even he probably wouldn't come anyway.
Seconded on ditching Ben Gordon ... I like the trade. I'm not sure I've ever seen such an interesting pick arrangement, but I haven't paid attention to all the trades over the past few years, either.
Most picks traded are protected like that.
There was a very similar structure to the pick we received that eventually became the Darko pick. We traded Otis Thorpe to the Grizzlies in like 1998 or so and got back a protected pick that we finally actually got five years later.
They would have kept it, gotten LeBron, and the pick would have come later and sucked. Instead we got the number 2 pick....and it sucked.
So I wonder what they're planning on doing with maggette and prince at SF.
They probably plan to do nothing with him.
I'm not sure I like giving up a first round pick. I know they hope to be in the playoffs and have the pick not be worth that much, but they're still a long way from good, and the only way they become great is to get lucky in the lottery. You only do that by having lots of first round picks and hoping one is in a tanked season and you get lucky.
The ideal hope is they win the lottery next year and there's some great high schooler out there who explodes as a freshman. But I wouldn't hold my breathe. They better hope they get really good soon, or they don't have any injuries after the next couple of years. Otherwise it could be a disaster if they give Charlotte a top pick 3 or 4 years from now. Unless the Bobcats draft Darko 2016.
But on face value takes care of one of two mistakes and allows the amnesty to be used on the other.
After all is said and done, we basically gave Chauncey away for nothing.
That was the point. Joe traded him for an expiring contract so he could have cap space in the FA market......he just grossly misused the cap space.
That's what I mean. Basically traded Chauncey for Villanueva and Gordon and once we drop Villa, none of the above will even be on the team. Guess they are just banking on taking their lumps again next year and hopefully making SMART MOVES in free agency in 2013.
I also don't like the trade. We aren't going anywhere next year, and I think the Pistons could have toughed out another year with Ben Gordon, tthus turning his contract into an expiring one, and a potential trade piece. If no one wanted him, you just let his contract expire and use the money to keep key pieces you already have, or sign a couple of quality veterans to short term deals.
If Michael Jordan is still there in 2016, then you can pretty much count on him drafting Darko 2016. Even though I have not been a fan of Joey D's choices as of late, I would really be hating life if Jordan was running the show here.
I can live with losing the first-round pick because the savings on the salary cap is huge. The Pistons can sign the equivalent of a lotto pick with the cap space they've gotten. Also, the Pistons are gradually getting better - they'll probably a playoff team two years from now, which would make the pick not that important.
They take the best free agent market ever and sign...Gordon and Charlie V. And the 2013 market is Howard and nobody else. And even Howard doesn't make them a championship team, just really good.
And yes, barring trouble the Pistons should be a bottom feeder playoff team...but what if in year 3 or 4 Monroe blows out a knee, and the pick drops into the Lottery? Then you're screwed. That's how one gets top picks...unexpectedly bad seasons, and lucky lottery bounces. Which is the only way for the Pistons to become great, because they've shown they can't pend free agent money wisely, and back away when guys like Garnett come up for trades. They've basically thrown up their hands at getting anything other than mildly better through the draft.
Daye is a failure that plays better at SG (and I have recently read that Joe is close to writing him off) Singler hasn't signed a contract yet, and Jerebko could very well spend most of his time at PF again.
Maggette will back up Tayshaun and both will have their minutes scaled back considering they are 33 and 32. Both have some experience sliding over a position in either direction and playing time could be made up that way.
It's a smart trade, but the Pistons still are a total clusterf*&%. I stood behind Dumars for so long regarding the Billups trade because it was a smart move. But he spent the extra cap money soooo poorly. Charlie V and Gordon were overwhelmingly disappointing.
Still excited for the draft, though. Hopefully they can grab another quality piece like they have the past two years with Monroe and Knight.
Now we have to get rid of Charlie Villanueva. I still don't see why this wasn't a fireable decision...two HORRIBLE contracts given out on two below average players.
On top of drafting very mediocre outside of Monroe and Knight.
The championship was enough to give a pass on Darko, but Dumars has done NOTHING to get a pass on the majority of the decisions he's made recently.
(Outside of Darko) It's hard to miss when picking in the top 10. Guys bust all the time, but usually safe picks are decent players (Monroe and Knight). But the rest of his moves, over the past few years, have been pretty terrible.
The team seems to be lacking direction. They are in "rebuilding mode," which means focus on young players. But there is no direction or set personality for this team. Without any true star in the NBA, you won't make it to the top. The Pistons are nowhere near the top nor will they be anytime soon.
My model is to trade out of this pick to try and get a couple nice young pieces to go with Monore and Knight.
Then use the money I have when I get rid of Gordon and Villanueva to go after a "face of the franchise" type player.
Say we traded down in this draft and came away with 2 of the following 4 players:
1. Jared Sullinger
2. Royce White
3. Fab Melo
4. Will Barton
None of these guys will be a star, but I think all can be solid starters to 6th/7th men. And I don't Pistons level 6th/7th men, I mean somewhere between Mario Chalmers and Mike Miller level. Between Sefolosha and Collison level. On this team, that's you're 3rd to 5th best player, hopefully in 3 years it's your 3rd to 7th best player.
Anyway, I'd grab guys that this. I'd trade Austin Daye, especially if I could get White. And Jerebko can go as well if we can get something for him. Maybe a legit SG so Stuckey can come off the bench with the option to play SG/PG.
You put that team together and then spend your cap room on a legit, young SF who can carry a team with a decent support cast and you have a reasonable team. It's probably a 7-seed, something similar to the 76ers, but it's a start.
Build young like the Pacers/Thunder. Don't think the city of Detroit is going to attract Dwight Howard and/or Daron Williams.
I said guys who'd be the 3rd to 5th men in the rotation...but on a real team, a championship team (which we're far from) they'd be 6th to 7th men.
Nick Collison/DeJuan Blair...they come off the bench of their teams but they'd start for us now.
I want young guys that can help us now, and hopefully as we continue to build...settle into a role down the road. You're not going to find a franchise player where we're at in the draft.
I named 4 guys above...
1. Jared Sullinger (I think his ceiling is Boozer, but I think he's more of a DeJuan Blair/Nick Collison type impact)
2. Royce White (I think his ceiling is Paul George (now, not Paul George in 3 years when he's really going to be good, but I think he's more of a Ron Artest (on a good day) type impact)
3. Fab Melo (I think he's a Brendon Haywood type impact)
4. Will Barton (I think he's a Rip Hamilton (today's RIP, not '04 RIP) type impact)
Personally, I think if you can add that kind of talent now. That's going to help you now and down the road. In most years, guys #7 - 15 are a roll of the dice...maybe Henson is Paul George, maybe he's Tyrus Thomas/Hakim Warrick. Is the ladder worth a #9 pick?
Nothing is a sure thing, I get that. But I play the odds of hitting on 2 vs. 1 when neither is going to be an NBA superstar.
Also a #9 pick is going to demand patience to see if he pans out. A #20 plays his role, period.
If I can look back at the Pistons in 2-3 years and see something like this...
1. Brendan Haywood
2. Fab Melo
1. Greg Monroe
2. Jared Sullinger
1. Legit NBA Young Star
2. Royce White
1. Aaron Afflalo
2. Rodney Stuckey
1. Brandon Knight
2. Will Bynum
...I think that's a start. You've got the ability to play Monroe and Sullinger together (although there would be no athleticism), you can go small with Monroe, White and your Legit NBA Young Star...and you have a nice 3-man rotation with Afflalo/Stuckey/Knight.
You put this type of team together...THEN you go try to get a big time FA. Or maybe you get two solid pieces like a Joakim Noah type. Someone's who's forever on the trading block and could be traded down the road for a draft pick and a couple other assets.
When the f did afflalo come back to the pistons?
...in this dream scenario I've put together. When did Brenden Haywood ever get on the Pistons? Same answer.
Good luck getting a big time FA to sign in Detroit. Gotta build through draft or trades (see: Sheed)
Because for the plan to work you need that guy...and who and how? THAT'S the hard part. The rest is easy.
They built around a young Danny Granger.
The 76ers built around a young Andre Iguodala.
I'm talking about a player that isn't going to carry you the way a top 2-3 draft pick would/should. But a player that you can put with a Monroe and Knight and have a decent young team.
...or I suppose we could try to take the year away and risk that we'll get lucky enough in the lottery to get a top 2 pick. And that player will pan out. And Greg Monroe and Brandon Knight won't want to leave when their contracts are up because we've sucked their whole careers.
That's alot to ask/hope for.
IMO, you have to show improvement now. Not championship improvement, but reasonable signs of getting better. If not, the young guys that you do have either leave...or realize that they're so valuable to you that you have to overpay them (Joe Johnson and the Hawks) and you never have enough to build around them.
OK, beyond the fact that both those guys were drafted by the team that they're with (though not that high) you're basically talking about them building an annual second round exit team, rather than the first round exit team they're building. And that does what, exactly?
The problem is they've spent a number of years not "taking the year away" to chance getting a top pick...last year they would have had to only move up in the lottery one spot for the #3 pick, in 2010 they would have had to move up one spot for the #2 pick, and they were 4 meaningless wins from getting the #1 pick this year. Guess what? Winning a few more games hasn't put any butts in the seats. But it has put this team in a limbo that makes it almost impossible for them to be a championship caliber team.
Monroe isn't a free agent till 2015. There's plenty of time to stink and get a star which would move up the team big time and make him want to stay. And if you can't acquire a star by then? You're better off letting them go because you haven't been winning enough because then you can get back in the lottery and maybe get the next big star. Because you're wasting their careers anyway by having them hang around no man's land with bad lottery picks or lousy playoff teams. Maybe that's what they're doing...riding out the LeBron years, and waiting till they can win again, and just treading water hoping to sell some seats with teams that don't suck but can't win anything in the process. Like riding out till the Jordan years were done.
But that doesn't excite me. The point is to win championships. The way you do that in the NBA is stars, period. And the only way a team like the Pistons gets them is in the lottery. Be awful, stay in the lottery till you get it right, than make a run. Being LeBron and Rose's whipping boy for a decade is a waste of time.
I'm a big fan of picking Robert Sacre in the second round. I believe that he'll be a very productive pro.
To restate what I've posted elsewhere, there isn't a solid, "franchise" SF out there in free agency anytime in the near future. They dont grow on trees. The only way to get one would be through the draft, and they're not lucky enough (or bad enough) to get a top 2 or 3 pick.
It's not that hard to miss when picking in the top 10. Let's look at the five drafts since Darko (which also included TJ Ford, Michael Sweetney and Jarvis Hayes as Top 10 busts), since the career trajectory of those guys is becoming clear. I'm defining "bust" as guys who had virtually no impact on their teams for whatever reason.
4. Shaun Livingston
6. Josh Childress
8. Raphael Araujo
10. Luke Jackson
6. Martel Webster
9. Ike Dioju
You could argue Bargnani is a bust at #1. I'd just say he's disappointing from a #1 pick, but it was a bad draft.
3. Adam Morrison
4. Tyrus Thomas
5. Sheldon Williams
9. Patrick O'Bryant
10. Mouhamed Sene
6. Chairman Yi
7. Corey Brewer (maybe not be a bust, complete role player on his third team, though. Will count as a a half-bust)
8. Brandan Wright
2. Michael Beasley
8. Joe Alexander
That's 17/50 or 33% of the top ten as busts, including 6 in the top 5. Many of those guys were considered "safe," ie they'd played college ball, as well (Beasley, Brewer, Oden, Williams, Morrison, Childress, Jackson). In short, it's pretty easy to miss on a top 10 pick.
And drafting a 6'10 big man who's rail thin (even though I love his game) doesn't exude confidence. Especially when you already have a PF.
Drafting a 6'11 legit big man with NO post moves and who shoots 30% from the free throw line also doesn't give me hope. Especially when he's from the same school as can't miss prospect Hasheem Thabeet.
Who was going to fire him? Mr. D. passed, Mrs. D.was unfamiliar with the biz, and the eventual new owner was unfamiliar with the biz.
Just a random question to Pistons fans. How would you all feel if the Pistons traded out of their spot to get a couple first round picks, like say both of the Celtics first round picks?
If the #9 pick is up and Drummond/Henson are gone, then sure.
but come on man. hindsight is indeed 20/20. Ben Gordon was coming off one of the most incredible first round series ever. He was putting up 50, and playing like a leader in the clutch, and frankly like a superstar. he scored anywhere from 18-20 pts a game. This guy wasnt supposed to be a bust. His mistake was keeping Rip, and not having anywhere to play Stuckey.
As far as Charlie V. i dont have any defense. he is a scorer who doesnt play ANY defense. His contract wasnt ridiculous for what his production had been, but he didnt produce here.
...when it's true.
The Gordon signing made no sense with RIP on the team and still giving some decent production with him being happy. No reason to trade Billups either...Stuckey was perfect for the role he had coming off the bench for the older guys.
He needed to add some beef at SF because LeBron was destroying Tay, instead he drafted Prince 2.0...
Also needed to add a legit big man. Never happened until Monroe fell in our laps.
The re-signing of Rip, was for my mind, just as indefensible as giving Ben Gordon all of that money.
He basically made a bunch of panicky moves when he knew they weren't going to be able to ink any of the big name free agents, and in resulted in the clusterfuck of a roster we've had the past few years.
Um...his most brilliant move by far was trading for Sheed. That said, I agree that he's gotta go
But still, you have to give him credit for pulling it off. If Rasheed was available for a song, why didn't any other team go after him?
But blaming someone for what you know NOw doesnt make a ton of sense either. Gordon had been a sixth man since coming in the league, and im assuming that was the plan with the pistons as well. Stuckey at PG and Rip the 2 guard. Stuckey isnt a PG and Rip clashed with every shitty coach Dumars hired. That is equally the issue as any of the free agent signings.
Like i said earlier, im not defending Joe. There were just many other circumstances that caused Gordon to be a bust. I didnt find it to be a horrible signing at the time.
Charlie V was the more defensible of the two signings at the time.
His contract wasn't as monsterous as Gordon's, and his numbers were similar to LaMarcus Aldridge, when projected more minutes. Joe D thought he was getting a developing big who could stretch the floor and if he became a 20-9 guy, that's a steal at just $7 million a year.
The year they inked Charlie Villanueva he averaged 16 and 7 in just 27 minutes of play. His per 36 minutes averages came out to 22-9. He was 24 years old. If you think you can nab a big guy like that at $7 million a year, you take him.
It's not his fault Charlie V hasn't worked out, and as many stupid or questionable things as Joe has done over the past few years, that's one that I won't put on him.
Villanueva was still developing, but with Ben Gordon, I have no clue what he was thinking. Ben doesn't play defense, is a black hole on offense, and a streak shooter.
You knew precisely what you were getting with Ben, and that's all well and good if you're paying him around $4 million a year like the Bulls, but at $10-12 million a year, no way you invest that type of money in a guy who basically does one thing. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't pass the ball well, he doesn't defend, he just scores.
He also didn't fit in with the roster they had and he wasn't going to get any better. It was doomed from the start.
Pistons should amnesty Prince over Villanueva. Similar $$ per year, but Prince has an extra year. After next year (when the Pistons won't be much better than fringe playoffs) villanueva will be a valuable expiring contract.
This is a curious use of cap space by Charlotte, but also a smart one, I believe. GM Rich Cho knows he is in a small market and isn't likely to get a big time free agent to come there. Max-salary free agents are the most desirable types because the NBA caps the amount players can make, and NBA stars are often the most underpaid. Absent the ability to obtain a player like this, and unwilling to subject the team to the free market dynamics that lead to overpaying role players in the FA market (almost all are overpaid), Cho is using their cap space to acquire a future asset, in this case a pick that will likely be in the top ten when realized. Cap space is valuable in the NBA, but its value is highly contextual based on the team that has it. For a team in Charlotte's position, this move is expensive, but they are in asset-gathering mode and weren't likely to use the salary flexibility they relinquished.
Detroit needs to understand that even if they compete for the playoffs next year, the only way to sustain a longer run and become a good to great team is to build for the future. Resigning Prince was not building for the future. Winning meaningless games last year for pride was not building for the future. Every team has to hit a low point, and I'm not sure if the Pistons were low enough. Also, Monroe is the real deal, but the jury is still out on knight on whether he can be a top guard. He had an ok season, which is to be expected for the 8th pick.
Resigning Prince was a terrible decision. They have got to stop winning meaningless games in Feb. and March, they cannot continue to win 30-35 games a year or else they become the Milwaukee Bucks, a team who seems to be the 8th seed in the playoffs every year and never being able to get a decent draft slot.
I don't understand why GMs (or maybe owners is more appropriate) don't understand bottoming out is good unless you're a destination franchise like LA or NY. It's incredibly hard to make it without a couple high lottery picks in a row like OKC if FA don't want to come to your team.
You are never as smart as you look when you get lucky and you are never as dumb as you look when you don't.
You trade Jerry Stackhouse for Richard Hamilton or You sign and trade Grant Hill for Ben Wallace or you deal Atkins and Hunter for Rasheed Wallace or you sdign free agent Antonio McDyess
You draft Darko instead of Bosh or Wade or You sign Villanueva or Gordon to big contracts or you deal Billups for Iverson
Let's hope he gets back on that better trail ....
Wade and Bosh were not going to be taken by Detroit. It was Darko or Anthony for Dumars, the same 2nd and 3rd ranked prospects on every other GM's draft boards. A workout with Bosh was even cancelled once it became clear that Detroit had tunnel vision.
Darko was seen to be dirk nowitzky with 3+ inches. Scouts were DROOLING over Darko. He wouldve gone two to a lot of teams. Obviously I'm not defending joe d- I was still screaming for melo
Sorry I thought u meant wade and melo were 2 and 3. Please delete.
In hindsight his career has followed the arc of a rookie ball player called up to the bigs who starts mashing right away, but has an extremely high BaBip....
Cavs fan here. I wonder if our reported attempt to move up to the #2 spot to grab Beal plays into this move at all.
For the record - the consensus in the NBA is that no matter how shitty a contract a player has...somebody will always be willing to deal for him. I cannot believe Dumars got the Bobcats to take on Gordon's mess of a contract but hey...more power to him.
For the record - the consensus in the NBA is that no matter how shitty a contract a player has...somebody will always be willing to deal for him.
That's pro sports in general. There's a lot of dumb GM's in every league
Don't forget we're also giving up a first round pick. That's potentially huge
and the Bobcats would have slipped below that floor in the 2013-14 season as Maggettes contact is expiring. The Bobcats HAD to spend this money and they got a 1st rounder for their troubles.
This is an example of a win-win (depending on where the pick lands). Charlotte gets a future asset and Detroit gets flexibility (and the ability to have major cap space next summer if they amnesty Villanueva).
Aside from drafting Greg Monroe, this is the best move the pistons have made since trading for rasheed wallace.
First trade since 2009, I believe :(
That's pretty ridiculous considering Joe D's insistence that they were going to make a move just about every season since then.
The goofy part is that we started with a glut of shooting guards six months ago and now don't have a credible backup in sight, Arron Afflalo (who we fatefully gave away for peanuts) is starting for the Denver Nuggets and is still a great complement to the Stuckeys and Knights of the world.
In Dumars's defense, the franchise basically didn't have an owner for a big portion of that time, which may have tied his hands.
While true, it shows how clueless Mrs. D was after Bill died. Rather than let Joe make moves to potentially improve a team that had trade assets, she (allegedly) made Joe sit on his hands as the franchise dwindled into obscurity, thus lowering the overall value of the Stones.
Mr. D wanted the team to go to his kids, and stay in the family, and she couldn't sell his stuff off fast enough. Got long timers to jump ship...heck, even had a guy commit suicide.
Joe has made in years. Could be the first step in getting the Pistons back in the right direction.
Back in 04-06, people were calling JoeD one of the sharpest execs in the league... Which apparently made him angry, because he's done everything possiblle since then to dispell that reputation. Hopefully this is a sign that things are trending the opposite way.
I don't think Henson is the answer, either. Pundits call him "NBA ready", but the kid weights 215 pounds and is 6'11. That is unacceptable, considering he was in college for a 4 years. He needs to put on 30-35 pounds to even make an impact, and even then his ceiling is Amir Johnson. Detroit should draft for potential and go for Meyers Leonard, who could propel this team from good to great if he pans out. Anther way to stockpile talent would be to trade down. If Drummond falls to 9, I believe the Pistons would be better off trading the pick to Houston for the 14th and 16th picks. Pistons could also try to trade back into the first round for a shot at Sulinger, who is by far a top-10 talent. I think the injury warnings are overstated, and even then he is still better than 2 second round picks.
Henson was in college for 3 seasons. But agreed, I don't want the Pistons drafting him. He doesn't have the fram to add weight if we wanted him to.
I just feel as if the Pistons front office needs to sit down and make a discussion on whether to build for the future, or continue to be mediocre.
But I wouldn't go with Vince Ellis on what likely scenarios are. This is the same guy who wrote a column after the Gordon and Charlie V. signings lambasting fans for not liking the deal, and spent a good length of time defending that move, that was idiotic from day one. I'm not sure he knows far more than you.
The problem is, no team is going to trade a high 1st round pick for just salary space. The only way we got the salary space was to give up the pick. So a team might throw in a pick if they're sending back a player, and a salary....so what would be the point of trading a salary and a pick for salary cap room only to trade the expiring contract for another team's salary and a pick?
Ben Gordon is a bum. I'd rather have someone who saves us money. Build around Monroe and Knight and moved forward.
now if we can just get dumars to resign
And now we have the jackass who comes in and downvotes every NBA thread doing his thing.
Fuck off and die in a hole, you ass spelunker.
+1 for "ass spelunker"
The Pistons might be terrible again next year, but look on the bright side, we now have a guy whose nickname in NBA circles is "Bad Porn."
I like the trade. Gordon was underachiving, it got him off the books and now Maggatte can be dealt at the deadline for a pick.
The NBA... Where tanking begins in June!
I'm all for getting a higher pick, but there's so much more to this. First of all, it was good for business to resign Prince. There was a ressurgance in ticket sales towards the end of the season. If no one is there to watch the games, owning a team is a little pointless.
Also, you can't just put Monroe and Knight out there by themselves. Without a stable veteran to givbe them some confidence they'll bolt the first chance they get. Guys like that you want to show you'll build around with both veterans and young talent in order to start convincing them now that they should re-sign in 3-4 years when they can. If Lebron had better talent around him in Cleveland and had won more he may still be there today.
I love this move and I think the only way to continue to improve the team is to keep that draft pick as high as possible. Get the most talented individual you can to add to the mix. Auburn Hills is a tough sell for free agents. The only way you'll get the impact players you need is drafts and trades. Then, maybe once you have a legit team, you might be able to sign role players. But remember, the best FA signing in years was Chancey and he was an emerging backup at the time who jumped at the promise of starting.
I love this move and I think the only way to continue to improve the team is to keep that draft pick as high as possible. Get the most talented individual you can to add to the mix. Auburn Hills is a tough sell for free agents. The only way you'll get the impact players you need is drafts and trades.
Doesn't that contradict itself? How do you sign freen agents and make the pick high while you get impact players through the draft?
I remember when he used to be somewhat talented with Chicago.
Good riddance, that signing and Villanueva were just disasters :(
Can they turn around and trade Maggette for some other team's pick? Because I didn't think you could do that with a guy you just traded for.
Yes, if a team is under the cap enough to fully absorb his salary or if they send a package back with matching salaries under the law. Recently acquired players cannot be traded in a an outgoing package for 90 days but can be moved individually, like how Atlanta flipped Rasheed to Detroit.
Maybe, but I doubt it. Either way, Magette will never suit up for the Pistons. He needs reconstructive knee surgery. I'm betting that they buy him out, or waive him.
EDIT: Did you mean, "Is is possible?" because the answer to that is yes, they could flip him immediately.
That you couldn't do that. And I thought you could. Now, what you're saying, that finding any takers of a pick that will be better than the one they gave up being a pipe dream is right on...
Hmmm...I thought they could flip him. Captain Jack was traded twice in 24 hours or something last year, but it might have something to do with Maggette being hurt.
But I actually trust you and gajensen better than I do those two, so I think you're right.
I'd have to look it up to see if there is something I'm unaware of, but today is a busy day for the NBA.
Houston just made a trade with the Bucks. Houston gets the 12th pick, John Brockman, Jon Leurer, and Shaun Livingston. The Bucks get the 14th pick and Samuel Dalembert.
The Lakers are shopping Pau for a top 10 pick.
The Nuggests and Warriors are in negotiations for a potential deal( Wilson Chandler for the number 7 pick).
The Clippers, Mavs, and Lakers are working on a three team deal that would send the Kardashian-Odom's back to LA (Clipps), while Mo Williams would join the Lakers, and parts unknown to the Mavs.
Houston looks to be really gearing up for a run at Dwight Howard.
Wow the MGoCommunity is so smart. Not only Michigan fans but NBA GM's too! Except not NBA GMs.
Kind of sucks for Gordon - he gets traded from a slight trainwreck in Detroit to a massive one in Charlotte. Yeah, that protected 1st-rounder could always bite this team in the end, but if the team is still a mess in 2016 then they deserve to lose that draft pick.
Will miss Gordon leaving, though; he was the one guy who I felt could improve once the rest of the team settled down a bit.
And with respect to Joe D., let's not forget that he was looking to get rid of Charlie V and/or Gordon for a couple of years, but the ownership situation apparently hamstrung his efforts. I've read a couple of places that he wanted to pull the trigger on dumping Charlie last offseason but was told that until Gore's ownership was finalized, he needed to hold off. By the time that went through, all takers were gone.