He didn't denigrate anyone? He said he loved and respected a dictator, someone who has been pretty cruel to Cubans. So much so that some of them try to float across the ocean on poorly made dinghies, risking getting shot or eaten by sharks. To me that's denigrating the people who have suffered under his rule. Not to mention the fact that Guillen sort of insulted the USA by saying Castro was able to avoid being overthrown/killed despite American efforts. Obviously, that's the less insulting part of the comment, but to say he's not denigrating anyone is incorrect, in my opinion.
OT: Ozzie Guillen suspended for 5 games
Hi, I'm America. I take great offense to Ozzie pointing out that I was not competent enough to murder a foreign leader. I'm outraged, I is. Also, derp, derp, derp. I'm America.
Except that America didn't suspend him. The Miami Marlins did.
I am fully aware of who suspended him. My comment was more directed to what Magnus said about Ozzie offending Americans because he pointed out that we couldn't kill a foreign leader. Poor Americans, boy are our faces red.
Tim Hardaway Sr's comments on the LGBTQ community were denigrating. Ozzie Guillen saying he admired a politician is not denigrating. Guillen never said "I hate all Cubans in exile because they are just naturally ugly and stupid and won't go to heaven because of this." Sure, his comments were insensitive considering the poltical and social climate in South Florida, but they were not offensive or denigrating and suspending him for these comments is bullshit. Had he recused himself for 5 games I would have rolled my eyes but not cared. Having his employer suspend him is a whiole different problem, though.
I love Fidel. He's a good, solid guy. No sarcasm. I really love the dude. He's great.
This post will be deleted.
Not everyone in the world hates Castro. Why can't a MLB manager say that he's one of them?
He CAN say it. He has every right to. The club just has to decide if they want to continue fielding a team after they lose over half their corporate sponsorship in south Florida.
I'd be much more sympathetic if the Marlins just fired him. It's their team. For the league to suspend him for five games, though, is meddling in a place where it doesn't belong.
"The Miami Marlins have suspended manager Ozzie Guillen for five games for comments he made in which he expressed admiration for Cuban leader Fidel Castro."
Wasn't the league. Still not right, but at least it was his actual employer.
I missed that. Fair enough.
FWIW, and others have stated as well, MLB did not suspend him. The 5-game suspension was handed down by the Marlins:
The Miami Marlins have suspended manager Ozzie Guillen for five games for comments he made in which he expressed admiration for Cuban leader Fidel Castro.
That's not to say the MLB won't do something about it, though:
Major League Baseball was reviewing the situation, a source told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney.
being in the Miami market. Guillen's brand of running-of-the-mouth should be reserved for WWE villains. Yes, Ozzie we know you're outspoken but I'm not sure how this helps your ballclub. The "we played like st" stuff may motivate them but this other commentary is just the worst kind of bad judgement.
Being of middle eastern descent I see Castro a lot like Khomeini. Lots of Iranians like Khomeini while others despise him. There are two sides to every story. This was more of a PR move than anything. The media does a terrible job of portraying both sides of every story
...and geopolitics jumps front and center of the sports world. DAMNIT OZZIE.
PLEASE keep this discussion civil. I beg of thee.
I'll leave with one of my favorite Simpson's quotes.
Homer: Please, please, kids, stop fighting. Maybe Lisa's right about America being the land of opportunity, and maybe Adil's got a point about the machinery of capitalism being oiled with the blood of the workers.
an unpopular political opinion is stupid. It's obviously their right to do so. But it is stupid.
Yes, it is a bit silly but it is interresting to note that stating this opinion in America may get you suspended for 5 games, stating this type of opinion in Cuba can get you and your family killed.
Ozzie coaches baseball. We put way too much emphasis on the beliefs of people who are payed to play a sport or coach players of sports. Why Ozzie is even quoted on anything non-baseball related is beyond me. Same goes for Tebow and religious beliefs. Why should we care? The best response to this sort of thing is a big yawn.
When someone who's paid to pay attention to this stuff says something, then I'll take note.
Tommie Smith and John Carlos.
I think there are differences in this situation, however. One difference is that Smith and Carlos saw themselves oppressed individuals speaking up for themselves against oppression. Ozzie is just being Ozzie--saying stupid stuff without thinking. I will listen to the voices of the oppressed, regardless of their situation. Coaches who have an opinion about world leaders--not so much.
Ahh, but he is paid to pay attention to this stuff. He is a public face. His statement was offensive to a group of people and could cost the organization serious dollars. The lesson here is that you never bite the hand that feeds you.
That doesn't mean public figures should become bland automatons.
Public figures need to be aware that they are in public. He can say what he said in his living room 1000 times a day with no consequences. He has just proven that he can't say that to Time Magazine in during an interview. It is just a result of our culture being connected more now than we ever have.
I am not a huge fan of coach speak, but there is something to be said for keeping it bland.
Ozzie's sin wasn't saying something that would offend people. His sin was saying something that we have decided falls outside the acceptable realm of political opinion. Playing "God Bless America" at sporting events offends a non-zero proportion of the population, but very few people suggest it should be stopped because it risks offending people.
He said something that would cost his team money. He isn't being punished for being politically incorrect, he's being punished because the Florida Marlins need the support of local businesses and residents. He did say something that offended people. It was going to cost the team money. The team suspended him. That's pretty simple.
It's just also stupid.
Oh, I agree. Americans are pretty big hypocrites in the grand scheme of things.
He's paid to help win games. If he does that, this will all be forgotten. His statement was offensive because people paid attention to it. I agree, however, that this is the lesson--not to bite the hand that feeds.
Who cares if he respects Castro? Castro is a leader of men -albeit a ruthless dictator. People like Che and Che worked with Castro, right? I don't understand what the big deal is. Hell Hitler was a monster, but he turned Germany into a superpower in short order so in that aspect he could be respected as well. All Guillen was saying is that he respects Castro's staying power. I don't see why that is so shocking. Castro has lasted a long time against all odds.
I am not personally offended by his comment and it appears that you aren't either. That doesn't mean that there weren't people who were.
Francis Suarez, chairman of the Miami city commission, said Guillen should be fired. Joe Martinez, chairman of the Miami-Dade County board of commissioners, said Guillen should resign.
...it can be difficult to differentiate outrage from hispandering. I hope these two are expressing genuine outrage, and not just being opportunistic.
He didn't just say he respects him. He said he loves him.
Have to say I agree with his dudeness on this one. Castro is a dictator but Ozzie didn't say all that much that was inflammatory. Hes said much worse in the past. I don't get why Cuba is such a hot topic (not in Miami, but nationally), especially considering what other dictators and governments we have diplomatic relationships with, especially in LatAm. Our track record isn't the greatest in our own hemisphere.
/off my soapbox
that Petrino is a hot topic outside of Little Rock. Too much media, too many people searching for something to be outraged about. Next week, neither one will be a topic outside the respective local areas.
I think we can both agree he was speaking to the staying power of Castro. Love, respect, whatever... he was talking about the staying power of the man which is a completely valid point and a respectable quality in a person. Hell I have hated plenty of people in the office, but you have to tip your cap to those who are hated by most yet stay for far longer than their talents should allow.
It brings me to a quote from Blow "But I force a smile, knowing that my ambition far exceeded my talent. There are no more white horses or pretty ladies at my door."
Love him or hate him Castro has endured. That is an admirable quality.
The Marlins deserve what they got when they hired him. He has been saying stupid things for years. He is lucky he did this now when firing him would have been potentially damaging to a team many seem to think can make a real run at the NL pennant. If he had said this in the middle of a lousy season he would have been canned. Yes, he is free to say whatever he pleases, and the Marlins are free to tell him that as a representative of the team he has to curtail that freedom.
This isn't all about politics, it is about being a terrible salesman. Imagine if the Director of say, National Geographic, stated that they admired and respected BP. Nothing out of line or specifically controversial, but such a statement certainly wouldn't garner donations or support for National Geographic. Same thing with Ozzie, he isn't being suspended for what he said, but the bottom line impact of what he said.
pleasant relationship with Castro.
I've spent time in Cuba, studied that country a lot. Without getting all political one can definitely say that US politics here play into Guillen's having to walk back something he had a God-given AMERICAN constitutional right to say.
Anyone who cares to think for themselves on the issue rather than just repeat what they've been told should have to contend with what I had to, working through my own pre-judgements: Cuba may be poor, but it's a lot less poor than almost any other poor place in the Caribbean (outside your tourist hotel), and I have seen them: Santo Domingo and Kingston, for starters. Poor farmers from other Caribbean countries--who I work with--marvel at how clean the place is and how everyone is eating. The Cuban people want Fidel to bugger off and let them finally run the country, but they don't want to give up their health system, which is one of the world's best. Every time I've had an emergency in the Caribbean (3x now), I've been treated by a Cuban doctor.
Finally, don't let anyone tell you that there's no freedom there--people bad-mouth Castro all day long; that's just different from brutal dictator, no matter how you slice it; they know from brutal dictators--they had one before Castro, and he was closely connected to the US mafia. If they wanted to overthrow Castro they could have long ago. And don't let anyone tell you nothing changes there: the biggest gripe of many Cubans is how the plan changes every five minutes. They've tried everything, including giving back about a third of the country to private owners (mostly to start small farms and rural businesses) over the last five years.
Miami is changing, too. The fact that Guillen said these things may end up proving more important than that he was censured for it.
Just sometimes helps to toss a few facts onto the bonfire. After all, it was my Michigan professors who set me on a track of thinking for myself.
Check out the piece by Dave Zirin I just posted, more about Miami.
Finally, don't let anyone tell you that there's no freedom there--people bad-mouth Castro all day long;
Do they have the freedom to criticize him in the press?
How in the hell has this thread lasted more than 2 and a half hours? Did Brian forget to name a number 2 on the depth chart?
by the thinking person's sportswriter/critic Dave Zirin on all of this.http://www.thenation.com/blog/167303/big-trouble-little-havana-perilous-politics-ozzie-guillen
(well gee, that is, since we're talking about politics, which I thought was verboten in this forum...)
I'd like to thank this thread for making me reappreciate the politics ban on this blog. Miss you, politics ban.