OT: Ozzie Guillen suspended for 5 games

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April 10th, 2012 at 11:03 AM
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Moleskyn
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OT: Ozzie Guillen suspended for 5 games

He just had his press conference where (speaking in Spanish) he apologized to the Latin-American community for his comments. Here's a link to ESPN's summary of things.

"I feel like I betrayed my Latin community," Guillen said, according to ESPN's translation of his comments in Spanish. "I am here to say I am sorry with my heart in my hands and I want to say I'm sorry to all those people who are hurt indirectly or directly."

I say good for him for owning up to it and apologizing; this isn't an attitude he's adopted in the past with other comments he's made. But I feel like the Marlins suspending him is, I don't know, inadequate? I don't think that he should be fired, but it just seems odd. As an organization, you've got to send the message that you don't tolerate this, don't agree, etc., and I suppose they accomplished that by suspending him; but it just seems odd to go "Hey, you just complimented a dictator, you can't do that, we're going to suspend you 5 games." Maybe arbitrary is the word I'm looking for.

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April 10th, 2012 at 11:04 AM | if you don't want a manager (Score:5 Normal)
ish
Joined: 06/30/2008
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if you don't want a manager that runs his mouth, don't hire ozzie guillen.

April 10th, 2012 at 11:08 AM | This is all a ploy to market (Score:2)
aaamichfan
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This is all a ploy to market Major Leage Baseball to Latin America.

Nothing to see here.

April 10th, 2012 at 11:08 AM | I'm not saying this is good or bad, but... (Score:3 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Castro isn't universally reviled in Latin America.  This is a dubious thing to suspend him for, IMO.  

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 11:10 AM | that's true.  keep in mind, (Score:5 Normal)
ish
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 7692

that's true.  keep in mind, however, that he is universally reviled in miami. 

but yeah, what did they think they were getting in ozzie guillen?

April 10th, 2012 at 11:13 AM | Yeah, definitely hated in Miami (Score:4 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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My problem with this is that it's a slipperly slope.  There are Venezuelans in MLB who have expressed support for Chavez.  Do you suspend them?  I'm not saying I like Castro or Chavez - I just think you get into very muddy water when you start suspending people for their politics (though I don't think Guilen's comment had anything to do with ideology). 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 11:16 AM | It's not suspending people (Score:5 Normal)
colin
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It's not suspending people for politics.  There were (are?) threats of boycotting Marlins games as a result of OG's comments.  This is all business. Sidenote:  really, really glad he's gone.

...the Canadians make up for it with their emotion and classic ice-dancing skill.

April 10th, 2012 at 11:18 AM | Exactly.  Supporting Castro (Score:5 Normal)
LandonC
Joined: 07/24/2008
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Exactly.  Supporting Castro is not good for business in Miami.  This isn't that complicated.  

April 10th, 2012 at 11:22 AM | Again, though... (Score:3 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Should the NBA suspend the coach of the Utah Jazz if he says that he'd vote for Obama over Romney?  It wouldn't be popular in Salt Lake City. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 11:25 AM | See below... it's not MLB (Score:4 Normal)
LandonC
Joined: 07/24/2008
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See below... it's not MLB it's the Marlins.  The NBA wouldn't step in in your scenario.  However, I'd expect the Jazz would step in if the coach said "I think Mormonism is a cooky, made-up religion."  

It's not the content of the statement that matters to the Marlins, it's that the statement has the potential to reduce ticket sales.  

April 10th, 2012 at 12:33 PM | Well... (Score:3 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Saying that you support Obama over Romney* might hurt ticket sales too.  I hear what you and others are saying, though. 

 

*Which I neither endorse nor un-endorse nor re-endorse.

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 2:22 PM | Honestly, if the Jazz felt a (Score:5 Normal)
LandonC
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Honestly, if the Jazz felt a coaches statement on presidential politics would hurt ticket sales enough that a suspension was in order to fix the damage, they would do it.  It doesn't matter if you or I agree with the decision, though that would be part of the calculation.  If the cost-benefits associated with such a suspension favored a suspension for so mild a statement as "I prefer Obama over Romney," you bet your ass they'd do it.  

Coaches are paid to coach, represent the team and ultimately earn money for the team's owners.  If any action by the coach, from shitty strategy, to a drunk driving arrest, to controversial statements that are offensive to a key demographic, causes revenues to decrease, he faces a loss in job security.  This isn't difficult to understand.  Don't confuse the content of the action (or really the action itself) with the end result.  If you cost your employer money you will face consequences.   

April 10th, 2012 at 9:54 PM | You're comparing apple seeds (Score:3 Normal)
jmblue
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You're comparing apple seeds to oranges here.  The enmity between Cuban Americans and Castro goes way beyond your Utah analogy.  We're talking about a ruler who drove them out of their homeland and into this country.

April 10th, 2012 at 1:08 PM | Completely agree... screw (Score:2 Normal)
BlueCE
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Completely agree... screw Ozzie.  Just for those comments I would never go to a Marlins game.  I know the Venezuelan community in S. FL (I am Venezuelan) is completely outraged by this.  Freaking idiot, loves the commies but lives of the US system.  Hope he never comes back and I will certainly root against him as long as he remains around.

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April 10th, 2012 at 11:18 AM | You're right. Muddy, murky (Score:2 Normal)
JBE
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You're right. Muddy, murky waters here. Remember Mahmoud Abdul-Raud aka Chris Jackson? That suspenion was also a bunch of nonsense. I dislike Ozzie, but he shouldn't be suspended for this.

Sent From My Commodore 64

April 10th, 2012 at 11:14 AM | Hitler wasn't universally (Score:5 Normal)
Magnus
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Hitler wasn't universally reviled, either.  There were some people who liked or agreed with him about eugenics.  I'm not saying Castro and Hitler are the same; that's an analogy that was made on ESPN.  But either way, the point is that it doesn't take everyone hating Castro to make Guillen's comments inappropriate.

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April 10th, 2012 at 11:18 AM | The problem is drawing the line (Score:2 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Should MLB suspend Atlanta's manager if he says that he likes a Democrat?  It wouldn't be popular in Georgia to say that.

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 11:21 AM | Democrats in Georgia don't (Score:5 Normal)
death by trident
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Democrats in Georgia don't slaughter 30,000 people in 40 years.  Your argument is offensive to those people who died in an oppresive regime, or while trying to escape.

April 10th, 2012 at 11:23 AM | What about China? (Score:2 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Would you be suspended for saying that you approve of the way the PRC does things? Mao killed a hell of a lot of people, and any number of minorities continue to be oppressed. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 11:26 AM | That depends on if a lot of (Score:4 Normal)
Magnus
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That depends on if a lot of Chinese companies advertise through your broadcasts/stadium.

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April 10th, 2012 at 11:28 AM | That's the problem! (Score:4 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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It isn't offensive to say you like the PRC b/c the PRC is good for business in the U.S.  The PRC also killed many more people than Castro...I'm really just saying that I think the idea that MLB cares about human rights is silly.

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 11:32 AM | But it's not the MLB that (Score:5 Normal)
Magnus
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But it's not the MLB that suspended him.  He was suspended by his employer, the Florida Marlins.

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April 10th, 2012 at 11:36 AM | yeah (Score:3 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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The point that no team or MLB is a real crusader for human rights stands, though.  This is just P.R., which is fine, but that's all it is. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 12:10 PM | I agree with you 100%. The (Score:2 Normal)
bacon1431
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I agree with you 100%. The suspension is actually bogus in my mind. I wonder if he would have been suspended had he said he supported any US President that tolerated slavery and racial segregation?

For a' that, an' a' that, 
Our toils obscure an' a' that, 
The rank is but the guinea's stamp, 
The man's the gowd for a' that. 
April 10th, 2012 at 12:22 PM | It depends on the context.  (Score:4 Normal)
Magnus
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It depends on the context.  If he said he supported a US president because that particular president supported segregation/slavery, then yeah, I bet he would be suspended.  Or worse.

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April 10th, 2012 at 12:28 PM | equating slavery with political views? (Score:1 Normal)
Emgo Amadeo Del...
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Slavery goes far beyond modern political philosophies.

April 10th, 2012 at 4:58 PM | Guillen never said he (Score:1 Normal)
bacon1431
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Guillen never said he supported Castro for being a tyrant.

For a' that, an' a' that, 
Our toils obscure an' a' that, 
The rank is but the guinea's stamp, 
The man's the gowd for a' that. 
April 10th, 2012 at 11:28 AM | You are a public face of an (Score:4 Normal)
death by trident
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You are a public face of an organization.  As that public face anything you say that can be deemed offensive by your target audience could find you getting suspended.  I'm not saying it's right, it's just dollars and cents.  You are confusing the argument by thinking that it is politics.  It isn't, it was Ozzie saying something offensive to an audience that the Marlins are trying to encourage to come watch baseball.

April 10th, 2012 at 11:23 AM | It's not MLB, it's the (Score:3 Normal)
LandonC
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It's not MLB, it's the Marlins.  They're suspending him because he said something that was very bad for business.  The content, whether it's political or not, doesn't really matter other than the fact that it hurt the bottom line.  When most people make statements that could seriously hurt their company's bottom line, they get fired.  He should (and probably does) consider himself lucky.

April 10th, 2012 at 12:40 PM | That's right. (Score:3 Normal)
Mr Miggle
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Imagine if the Tigers hired a new manager next season and in the first week he starts saying stuff like American cars are pieces of crap and he wouldn't be caught dead driving one. There would be repurcussions from the team, while there might not be if he coached anywhere else. It's the same for Guillen. Saying something guaranteed to inflame Cuban emigrees is a really big deal in Miami. If he were managing anywhere else, he probably would just have gotten a little bad publicity.

Eating is murder.

April 10th, 2012 at 11:25 AM | The commenters above me have (Score:3 Normal)
Magnus
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The commenters above me have done a good job of countering your point.

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April 10th, 2012 at 2:30 PM | Inappropriate, but maybe not wrong. (Score:2 Normal)
wolpherine2000
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Mixing politics and sports is dangerous for individuals and organizations.  But to my mind, organizations have the higher responsibility than individuals, and should follow the Bruins lead after the Tim Thomas/White House affair: His actions/speech are puzzling, but his opinions are his own.  If it becomes a distraction for the team, the two parties should quietly part ways... it's not press conference material.

Players and coaches are going to say ridiculous things - they should be personally accountable to fans, but official sanction for  speech that is contentious, but not plainly inappropriate* is a bad precedent.

*in the manner of Nazis.  Nothing's worse than Nazis.

As a matter of fact I like beer.

April 10th, 2012 at 11:18 AM | That is like saying Hitler (Score:4 Normal)
MGoblu8
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That is like saying Hitler wasn't universally reviled in Europe. Yes there are people who support him. But I can assure you that the vast majority of people in Miami do not. Their stadium is in Little Havana. They were trying to market this team more to the Latin American people in south Florida. What he said, while I think I understand where he's coming from, was idiotic. I live in south Florida and lived in Miami until recently. People are really hurt by this. City Council members are calling for him to be fired. It was about the worst thing he could have done considering where he is. Just stupid. 5 games is about right, but I don't think it will be enough for a lot of people.

April 10th, 2012 at 11:20 AM | This is going to get political really fast... (Score:5 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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Hitler =/= Castro.  I don't like Castro, but I also have a hard time feeling too bad for the casino, brothel, and plantation owners who fled Cuba and now make a veritable culture out of crying over their lost wealth. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 11:31 AM | That's not even the issue. A (Score:3 Normal)
MGoblu8
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That's not even the issue. A lot of the Cuban people I know really were oppressed in Cuba. A man I know was a political prisoner who was in jail for 18 months. He only got out after going on a hunger strike of 50+ days or something like that. They thought he was going to die, so they let him go. A lot of the Castro supporters you see on tv are high school kids who are forced to stand there with signs. They control the media (unfortunately like a lot of countries) so you'll never see everything. People have died for opposing him. Hitler and Castro may not be the same, but he's their Hitler. Ozzie can say what he wants. He just has to understand that there are consequences.

April 10th, 2012 at 11:34 AM | I hear you (Score:3 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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I just get sick (getting away with a lot of politics here) with those Cuban ex-pats who would put themselves in the same category of the people you describe b/c they lost their really good means of exploiting people. 

Also, I just don't think the Hitler comparison holds up.  The fact that it's even used, I think, shows what a slippery slope this all is. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 11:50 AM | You're right. A lot of people (Score:2 Normal)
MGoblu8
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You're right. A lot of people do exploit the experiences (both real and otherwise). But remember that for those who did lose loved ones it is exactly the same. One of my mom's friends was killed in a plant explosion. The news reported it as "Only one person was killed, though several were injured." For them, it wasn't only one person. A lot of people who left Cuba were poor and were oppressed. They did lose a lot, including their families and it is a big deal. I just think he should know better. Most of my Cuban friends are saying that he made a mistake and he owned up to it. Move on.

April 10th, 2012 at 12:26 PM | And I don't mean to minimize what you're describing (Score:5 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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The problem - to the extent that there is a problem - is that it's pretty hard to say you support any world leader and not have that world leader be someone who at some other people consider to have wrongfully caused the deaths of others. 

I don't have a problem with the Marlins suspending him - or even firing him - as such.  I just want it to be recognized as a business decision, not part of some greater, coherent defense of the dispossessed. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 11:35 AM | One: Every single country (Score:5 Normal)
JBE
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One: Every single country controls the media.

Two: America holds prisoners (political or otherwise) as well.

Three: Any comparsion of Castro to Hitler is so off base I don't know where to start.

Four: Americans have also died opposing the American government.

Sent From My Commodore 64

April 10th, 2012 at 1:04 PM | The conundrum that is media. (Score:4 Normal)
JBE
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The conundrum that is media. This is a nice post. 

Sent From My Commodore 64

April 10th, 2012 at 4:02 PM | Very well put. I would also (Score:2 Normal)
His Dudeness
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Very well put. I would also add that some socialist and communist nations have done quite well once they get past America trying to knock the legs out from the regime in the early stages. Hell Reagan (his policies) killed far more Central Americans than Catsro ever did  Cubans.

I like living here and am not complaining, but the truth is the truth.

/Murrica.

or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

April 10th, 2012 at 8:00 PM | " I would also add that some (Score:2 Normal)
PatrickBateman
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" I would also add that some socialist and communist nations have done quite well"... really?  Like Western/Northern Europe and....... uhhhhhh...... yeah...... Cambodia?

Craig James was my wingman in '82.

April 10th, 2012 at 8:03 PM | Why read WSJ?  Read the (Score:0 Flamebait)
April 10th, 2012 at 12:26 PM | Forget about the ~120,000 (Score:5 Normal)
PatrickBateman
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Forget about the ~120,000 "undesirable" Cubans who were expelled to southern Florida in 1980?  Or the tens of thousands who have fled on boats and rafts during his rule?  I'm willing to bet that a significant portion of those who protest against Castro are the more recent variety who certainly don't meet the "evil capitalist" criteria, chances are those people passed away years ago and it is their relatives who are keeping up the fight.   

Craig James was my wingman in '82.

April 10th, 2012 at 1:11 PM | You sir have no idea what you (Score:-1 Flamebait)
April 10th, 2012 at 1:18 PM | Hitler (Score:4 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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He directly murded about 12 million people and set in motion WWII, so no, not one in the same...This isn't to say that Castro hasn't done many very bad things.  He has, and many people have suffered unjustly.  But Hitler?  No.

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 10th, 2012 at 11:09 AM | I feel like the suspension is (Score:3 Normal)
flysociety3
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I feel like the suspension is more of a PR response than 'fitting' the punishment.....

April 10th, 2012 at 11:32 AM | Absolutely. It's a complete (Score:3 Normal)
cmd600
Joined: 11/17/2010
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Absolutely. It's a complete PR thing. The Orioles went down and played an exhibition game in Cuba and Angelos said he would never sign Cuban players. That was an actual sign of support for the Castro regime, unlike Guillen's spouting off. There were no suspensions then.

April 10th, 2012 at 11:45 AM | Why did Angelos say that?  I (Score:2)
Magnus
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Why did Angelos say that?  I missed the story, but what was his reasoning?  I don't really see that being as offensive as what Guillen said, but maybe I'm wrong...  And either way, I don't think the Orioles depend on as much fan support from Latin Americans.

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April 10th, 2012 at 12:57 PM | Sure, a trial lawyer is going (Score:3 Normal)
cmd600
Joined: 11/17/2010
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Sure, a trial lawyer is going to come off sounding a lot less offensive than a hothead former baseball player, that doesn't mean his position is any less damaging. The Marlins did what they did solely because it was good PR.

April 10th, 2012 at 11:10 AM | Suspending him is absolute (Score:5 Normal)
RagingBean
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Suspending him is absolute bullshit. What he said was not PC in Miami, but he didn't do anything wrong by it. He expressed an opinion, one that is controversial, but nothing more. He didn't denigrate anyone or cause anyone harm. I think I agree with aaamichfan that this is all just a ploy to market MLB in Latin America.

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