OT-OSU Band Instructor charged with rape of student
April 30th, 2015 at 11:17 AM ^
Holy shit. I remember this guy when he was their DM.
Sort of makes the Jon Waters firing seem even more reasonable, if this was the kind of person he kept around the band program.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:21 AM ^
Kitchen was the drum major when Dr. Woods was the main director, but Waters was the #2 director at the time.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:42 AM ^
Waters hired him to be DM instructor.
https://osumarchingband.com/osumb-hires-drum-major-instructor/
April 30th, 2015 at 12:00 PM ^
thanks for the correction!
April 30th, 2015 at 11:18 AM ^
I remember a very "sexualized culture" around the marching band, 20 years ago at my high school. Of course we didn't call it that at the time, but looking back, there was some shady (and probably illegal) stuff going on.
If he's guilty I hope the justice system punishes him accordingly.
Also, Fuck OSU.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:21 AM ^
I feel the same way about the choirs I was in in high school. Sexualized culture seems so obvious now that I'm 10+ years removed from it
April 30th, 2015 at 11:28 AM ^
I was never in band or choir, what kind of things made the culture sexualized?
April 30th, 2015 at 11:54 AM ^
I remember being shocked and surprised when I heard about a scandal involving the MSU band in the early 1990s (I think it involved sexual hazing). This may have been a little before American Pie came out, so that whole "one time at band camp" gag took on a bit more meaning.
April 30th, 2015 at 12:07 PM ^
I sang in the choir all four years in high school. And there was a lot of screwing going on up in there.
am I on key? I tell ya what, a great topic on here for discuss man would be "what sports/football experience do you have so you can contribute from a relevant viewpoint and perspective...DISCUSS!"
Keep posting those mlive articles Nick!
fuck yourself.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:26 AM ^
First, that the whole sexulaized culture thing isn't really new. However, awareness of it could plant seeds in someone's head that it isn't ok to force a woman, or hold her againster her will until she agrees...that is rape. And women and girls need to hear about these charges so they know it is not okay to be treated this way.
Second, Fuck OSU.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:58 AM ^
And I wasn't trying to minimize the situation or do a "well it's always been this way so it really isn't a big deal".
I just think that it would be surprising to people that weren't around the band/choir cultures at their schools. There was certainly a lot of blatant sexual harassment (both ways), casual sex, teacher/student sex, etc.
So I'm saddened that this happened, but I'm not the least bit surprised.
April 30th, 2015 at 12:55 PM ^
I'm not saying people didn't have sex in the day but the sexual content young kids are exposed to nowadays makes me blush.
Identification is another issue with heightened and earlier exposure in American culture. I can't really comment on band sub culture.
Screw OSU.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:18 AM ^
I think I will wait until the story plays out, including court proceedings, before I condemn the accused.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:28 AM ^
How noble of you.
April 30th, 2015 at 12:25 PM ^
Your childish sarcasm is unnecessary. It is too common today, with social media, to have a trial by public opinion where preconceived notions of guilt or innocence are ultimately reversed when the facts are revealed.
April 30th, 2015 at 12:34 PM ^
Gold star for you today! Enjoy...
As it should be for the justice system, but if his defense is that it was consensual, I don't think it's improper to socially shun someone for getting into a sexual situation where the power dynamics are so skewed.
Obviously we're not even at that point, but "beyond a reasonable doubt" isn't a very realistic or even ideal standard for non-violent censure.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:21 AM ^
Is it standard to name the accused in an article before they even appear in court?
April 30th, 2015 at 11:24 AM ^
Prosecuters love headlines.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:25 AM ^
Huh.....seems pretty damaging if the accused is found innocent.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:30 AM ^
Nah, those lacrosse players at Duke turned out just... oh, wait.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:33 AM ^
The standard response whenever this comes up is that having these things out in the open prevents government abuse through "secret trials" and what have you. That said, no one seems to care unless it's about sexual assault. You can go ahead and come to your own conclusion about why that might be.
Two very high profile examples in the sports world would be OJ and Aaron Hernandez. Press were camped out in front of their houses before they were even arrested, let alone arraigned.
MGoBlog recently ran a front page story on Frank Clark's arrest before he ever saw the inside of a court room.
I'm having trouble thinking of a prominent case that wasn't openly discussed before trial. We were talking about Aaron Hernandez for months. We were watching O.J.'s Bronco before he'd even been apprehended, let alone brought to court.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:25 AM ^
3 instances of sexual assault since 2011 at the OSU band? Everything about this is awful.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:34 AM ^
Is that more than their football team and ours combined?
April 30th, 2015 at 11:32 AM ^
I will be getting her in karate/self defense class in a year or two. Some basic techniques can get you out of some bad situations. Too many pervs out there.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:38 AM ^
Mace and/or pepper spray would also be useful.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:51 AM ^
but probably not a good idea for a toddler...
April 30th, 2015 at 11:38 AM ^
My future daughter (if I have one) will be in gymnastics (those girls have great core strength) and self defense.
April 30th, 2015 at 12:03 PM ^
I'm personally hoping that I have all boys, all nearing 300 lbs and star linemen on the football team who will know how to treat women with respect.
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April 30th, 2015 at 12:13 PM ^
Perfect. we need more of this.
April 30th, 2015 at 12:28 PM ^
I might be growing one of those right now. My son is 18 months old and almost 35 lbs. Little dude loves eating.
The other thing he loves slightly less is his 4 year old big sister, who is going to spend their formative years totally bossing him around.
As a man who has a sister 3.5 years older than him... we both STILL remember the (great in my mind, less so in hers) day when I was all of a sudden bigger and stronger than her. Typical friendly sibling play fighting turned into me picking her up and tossing her on the couch, she made this face that said "the whole world has changed"... Let his sister know that things don't stay the same!
April 30th, 2015 at 12:29 PM ^
I'll train them that women were created special and set apart from the rest of creation and as such should always be respected and I'll probably be considered a sexist and a bigot.
April 30th, 2015 at 12:44 PM ^
I'll train them that men were created special and set apart from the rest of creation and as such should always be respected and I'll probably be considered a sexist and a bigot.
see how that sounds?
April 30th, 2015 at 12:50 PM ^
Also, it's not what I believe. That's why I said the exact opposite.
It's the same thing you wrote.
My position is out of humility toward, and respect, reverence and celebration of the opposite sex. Your example implies domination of YOUR sex. Big difference.
what you're saying now. Change my post title from "father" to "mother" then.
Either way, what you said comes off as sexist. I don't have two daughters, I have one of each. And I'm teaching both of them to treat everyone with respect, regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation, or anything else.
And really, I'm just breaking balls. I don't have a problem with your sentiment.
We'll have to agree to disagree; I think you're seriously reaching to call that sexist, given the intent. And it's not that I wouldn't teach my boys to respect men as well, I just don't think it's ever a bad idea to try to instill young men with a healthy respect for women.
I don't understand this thread and I genuinely like your posts mostly... but I'm not sure how anyone faults the other poster for raising his sons to be gentlemen?!
I doubt that we'll eliminate rape(or any violent crime)without some genetic manipulation. But until that happens woman need to be taught how to defend themselves for protection and self-esteem reasons. A woman who can protect herself is likely to be less dependent on a man then one who cannot physically defend themselves. That's what I believe anyways.
Ideally, men would stop raping and we must try to get men from doing that. But this is a serious problem that requires more than one solution.
Even more important is teaching how to be irresponsible responsibly. Always plan ahead, because once you voluntarily put yourself outside your normal state of mind, it's dangerous. Too many bad people looking to take advantage of that, and even if you're surrounded by otherwise good people in an equally inebriated state, it's easy to find yourself in a situation you later regret. Figure out your limits and your exit strategy while you're sober.
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April 30th, 2015 at 11:34 AM ^
Here's the Cleveland.com story linked in the article.
The rape reportedly occurred on April 15 in Kitchen's home in Columbus, records show. He is accused of inviting a woman to his home for drinks and then refusing to take her home, eventually forcing her into his bedroom for sex.
Between this and the Jon Waters stuff and other incidents, I don't even know what to say. The level of apparent institutionalized dysfunction in that band and the level of personal depravity that seems to exist in some of its members is .... holy crap.
April 30th, 2015 at 11:57 AM ^
It is terrible that this happened, and I'm glad that charges have been filed.
I also agree with the comments in this thread about a "sexualized culture." I suspect that any environment where young men and women are in close proximity regularly and repeatedly is susceptible to a sexualized culture. Choir, Band, Theatre, Dance, Figure Skating, Cheer leading squads, etc., all fall in this category.
I also think that this is at least one way that things are probably improving in society. That is to say, I suspect that this kind of thing has gone on in many band settings, but was excused, dismissed, swept under the rug in the past. There seems to be an increased awareness that "no means no" and that this is not something to be tolerated.
Full disclosure: with a beautiful 22 year old daughter currently serving in the US Navy, I have a heightened awareness of this kind of thing. The military is also a place where there is often a "sexualized culture," where rape and sexual assault of both men and women is epidemic. If anything, it is worse in the military because victims are dismissed as crazy, and officers have a vested interest in denial and coverup.
EDIT: Still not up at Eleven Warriors as of noon Thursday.
Mine is going to UM this fall in an all female geeky, nerdy hall. I will also have her display a scowling picture of me in her room holding a shot gun ; )