OT: One last Dunn thread
I will preface this by saying I have no empirical evidence to support this claim but my source, who is very well connected to football in TSIO and other schools, has never given me any info (well in advance of it being published) which didnt turn out to be true.
So here it goes:
Meyer told Dunn he would pull his offer if he visited Michigan.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
BOOM!!!
December 19th, 2011 at 10:26 AM ^
Wow, if true, Urban Meyer is an asshole. If not true, Urban Meyer is still an asshole.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:27 AM ^
Pot calling the kettle black?
December 19th, 2011 at 10:35 AM ^
All of my pots are alluminum.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:01 PM ^
Well since Hoke does the exact same thing, is Hoke an asshole?
December 19th, 2011 at 12:17 PM ^
I just moderated your post as "informative" because I thought you had a valid point. Then I read your signature and I would like to take it back.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:22 PM ^
1. Michigan makes it abundantly clear up front that if you commit, you cannot visit
2. Michigan does not have pending NCAA sanctions
He had a point (let's talk like he isn't here), but there are a couple of differences which in the whole scheme of things are pretty big. It's a pretty ballsy move by Dunn. Imagine if Dunn had visited Michigan. What would the fallout have been (hypothetical)?
December 19th, 2011 at 1:49 PM ^
As I know it, Hoke says you cannot be considered "committed" if you are still taking visits, which means your spot is not saved until you do commit. This is entirely different than pulling the scholarship off the table if you take a visit, which can be considered as asshole-ish.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:27 AM ^
There isn't a ton of difference between this and what Hoke is doing...
December 19th, 2011 at 10:33 AM ^
Hoke doesn't pull offers, he just doesn't consider them committed and will continue recruiting other players at that position. Meyer just gave a kid trying to make the biggest decision of his life to date an ultimatum.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:17 AM ^
The mods at Rivals have said that Michigan is no longer recruiting Pharaoh Brown. If that's the case, then it appears Michigan did the same thing to Pharaoh Brown as Urban Meyer did to Bri'onte Dunn.
This is why Drake Johnson was offered - as an insurance policy for Dunn. It kind of sucks, but it's not the end of the world. These types of things happen in the recruiting world, and I don't think Dunn is a make-or-break recruit.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:21 AM ^
Maybe Pharaoh told them to go away?
December 19th, 2011 at 11:22 AM ^
The Rivals mods have said that it has been Michigan's choice not to pursue Brown further. I'm not vouching for the truth of that statement, just relaying the info.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:19 PM ^
Is this subsequent to Mattison's visit to Brown last week? Is that what Mattison told him?
EDIT: nevermind. The posts below say the visit was a rumor.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:32 PM ^
But I thought that the coaching staff stopped pursing Brown because of how he took his visit not because he took his visit.
December 19th, 2011 at 1:22 PM ^
I think that's an assumption that has not been verified. Either way, the coaches told Richardson that he would not be considered a commit if he visited elsewhere. It's unclear if they still would have recruited Richardson, but the evidence with Brown suggests that the coaches are taking a pretty hard-line stance.
December 19th, 2011 at 2:31 PM ^
I don't think it's fair to compare the Brown and Dunn situations though. Nothing really changed from the time Brown committed to the time he took his visit. There have been 3 different head coaches at Ohio since Dunn committed, plus they had all of the NCAA violations come out.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:02 PM ^
Any thoughts on how Mattison's visit to Brown plays into the Rivals chatter?
Links:
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/pharoah-brown-receives-visit-mattison
December 19th, 2011 at 12:07 PM ^
that was a false rumor as verified by Tom and wilftong
December 19th, 2011 at 12:48 PM ^
F-that. Next you're gonna tell me that Craig James didn't really presumably kill five hookers while at SMU because paying them for services provided would've exhausted his PAC account.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:11 PM ^
Yeah, I agree that this happens all the time. And while I think Dunn will be a good back, he was always a lean to Ohio and I figured it would be an uphill climb to convince him to pick UM once Ohio remedied their coaching situation.
Wish him the best, but I don't think Meyer did anything other than tell him he needed to make it clear if he was in for Ohio or not. Nothing wrong with that.
December 19th, 2011 at 1:22 PM ^
I wasn't aware of that. I think there might be more to them deciding not to continue recruiting him than the visit itself though. I think it says a lot about Brown that he tried to do it secretly since he knew he wasn't supposed to. I've never met the guy or heard anything about his character, so I won't jump to any further conclusions about his character. Hoke and co. have made it pretty clear what type of guys they want to play for them though.
December 19th, 2011 at 2:55 PM ^
December 19th, 2011 at 10:28 AM ^
December 19th, 2011 at 12:04 PM ^
False. Hoke and staff completely stopped recruiting him after the visit to Oregon. It wasn't "we'll just look for alternatives."
December 19th, 2011 at 8:57 PM ^
you are not so bright. Therefore it isn't surprising that you don't grasp the difference between continuing to look for other players and outright telling a recruit--ala Dunn, that you have no place here no matter what you do. Think about it a minute.
Now having said all of that. I'm not here to say that this stance alone makes Meyer a scumbag, it's the kind of thing that happens a lot in recruiting. RR used to say if you continue to take visits, you really aren't committed, and he was right.
December 19th, 2011 at 12:42 PM ^
He's the head coach of biggest rival, that isn't enougb to hate him for?
December 19th, 2011 at 1:14 PM ^
that the OP has it right.... Meyer said "Pull your offer" and not "No longer consider you committed"..... and that it some how didn't get mistranslated between his source and his source's source.
Even so, I think it's pretty much the same thing. Hoke tells recruits that they are no longer committed if they are taking other visits or, basically, your offer has a chance of going to someone else.
I'm guessing this is pretty standard in the coaching world.
December 19th, 2011 at 2:41 PM ^
I think the big difference people are missing is that Hoke tells these recruits from Day 1 when they commit, and even before that, when you are committed you are expected to be done with recruiting. Meyer could have easily come in from Day 1 and tell all of his commits about this policy but he chose to wait weeks, felt threatened by Michigan, and told Dunn specifically that he would pull his offer.
I think it is a blessing in disguise. I like the idea of going into next year's recruiting being able to tell 5* RBs (that are, let's be honest, better than Dunn, ike Ty Isaac) that they'll have one year behind Fitz and then they have a chance to be the Man.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:29 AM ^
and if Dunn wants to play for 3 to 5 years for a human being like that (over Hoke), good luck to him.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:29 AM ^
Hoke has the same policy. If true, it seems like a pretty smart move by Meyer. There isn't much sense in holding a spot for someone who isn't really committed to you. The reality is that Dunn wasn't really committed to Ohio prior to last week.
I'm still holding out hope that the NCAA gives Ohio a Bowl ban. I think Dunn will flip if they do.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:39 AM ^
Hoke does NOT have the same policy. He keeps the offer with the kid, just no longer considers them a commit. A BIG difference.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:49 AM ^
That isn't true. If a kid visits elsewhere, the Michigan staff would pull the offer if they could find a better fit in the meantime. Otherwise, what's the point? It's a semantic difference between Hoke and Meyer's policies, and I don't have a problem with either one.
<br>Now whether Meyer was bluffing is a guess that the Dunn family probably had to make.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:56 AM ^
I will try this with an analogy.
Example 1: You go to buy a car at a dealership. You test drive it and you like it. You talk to the salesman and hammer down a price. You tell the salesman you would like to shop around. He says that he is fine with that, but he can't hold the car for you. If someone else comes along and offers him the same money for it, he will sell it.
Example 2: You go to buy a car at a dealership. You test drive it and you like it. You talk to the salesman and hammer down a price. You tell the salesman you would like to shop around. He says that you either buy the car right now or you will never be allowed to buy it. You explain that you need time to think about it but he insists that you make your decision right now without comparing any other dealers.
See the difference now?
December 19th, 2011 at 11:10 AM ^
Well put.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:15 AM ^
What if you keep coming back and wasting that dealers time by test driving the car? In the end always saying "I still want to shop around".
December 19th, 2011 at 11:27 AM ^
The difference is, the dealer has to sell a certain number of cars by the end of the day.
If the same customer keeps coming back for more test drives and questions, it's wasting the dealer's time, causing him to potentially not meet his end of the day sales goal.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:39 AM ^
Correct. It could have been a one time strategy employed by Meyer, or it could be his blanket policy.
I guess the hole in the analogy would be Dunn's behavior. He has been a commit, then a soft commit, a visitor on U-M sidelines twice (on the opposite side of Ohio at Michigan Stadium), talking about an official U-M visit, etc...
In the end it was Meyer telling him to shit or get off the pot.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:26 AM ^
I agree that those two situations are different but I don't think Example 1 describes Hoke's policy. At least I'd be surprised if it did. Do we think Pharaoh Brown was free to come back from his Oregon visit (say, the following Monday or Tuesday) and say, "Coach Hoke, I checked out the other college/dealership and your offer is better, therefore I wish to remain committed/buy the car at the price we discussed."
My understanding is Hoke would not have allowed him to recommit so easily. Otherwise, Hoke's rule would have zero teeth, and commits would visit other places, roll the dice that no other player would commit in that 48 hour span, and re-commit on Monday. I think Sam Webb discussed this last week and said something to the effect of, "If Pharaoh Brown is allowed back in this class (at least, without serious reflection by the Michigan coaches), the other members who wanted to take visits but didn't (e.g., Richardson) are going to be a bit miffed."
I don't think Sam said "miffed" but you get my point.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:43 AM ^
From what Magnus is reporting (from the Rivals mods about Brown) it appears that Example 1 might not be an accurate portrayal of Hoke's policy. It appears that his policy is closer in line with Meyer's. At that point the line is much more fuzzy in the difference between the two, if there is any at all.
December 19th, 2011 at 3:11 PM ^
i'm bad with analogies, so help me out. what kind of car are we talking about again?
:)
December 19th, 2011 at 9:58 PM ^
is that Dunn doesn't need to buy OSU's car.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:49 AM ^
Different policy. If this is true, Meyer effectively said "If you're still interested in other schools you are not welcome here." Hoke's position is more like "If you're still interested in other schools that's fine, but don't label yourself as committed. We will continue to recruit you but other players of your position, also."
Hoke's policy ensures we don't get screwed by an indecisive kid while allowing that kid to make the best decision for himself. Meyer's policy doesn't allow recruits to compare schools. It's either commit right now and end your recruitment or you're not allowed here, even if you end up deciding this is the place for you.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:54 AM ^
I think you're reading too much from the specifics of each case. This policy basically gives coaches an opportunity to step back and ask, "Okay, do we still want this kid in the class?" without doing anything wrong if they drop him. We probably still want/wanted Brown. If Standifer had done the same thing a month ago, he probably would have been told that his spot wasn't likely to stay available if he went.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:06 AM ^
I agree that Hoke's policy says that, but Meyer's is a lot more harsh. As in "now or never." I'm sure we're still recruiting Brown, and I bet that if Standifer wanted back in (if he fixed his grades or whatever the rumor was) Hoke would welcome him back, as long as another corner hadn't committed to us at that point.
December 19th, 2011 at 11:23 AM ^
I agree. If you read between the lines this means Meyer is ok with losing Dunn and gives an easy way out.
On the other hand I could see OSU being way over it with all the Dunn drama. So in this case I think the tactic can be justified.
Just to add I would have visited Michigan on principle alone if someone said that to me.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:30 AM ^
he truly wanted to be at OSU.
December 19th, 2011 at 10:30 AM ^
December 19th, 2011 at 10:31 AM ^
If true, I don't have a problem with this tact. Weren't we lauding Hoke for alegedly doing the same with Pharoah Brown?
December 19th, 2011 at 10:36 AM ^
Hoke (I believe) said that if Brown takes an official visit to another school, he will consider Brown to "un-verbal" to Michigan, meaning that Michigan would also look elsewhere and it would not be a free pass for Brown to look at others, while Michigan would stopp recruiting his position. He may end up at Michigan still, if was not a pulling of an offer, though.
The difference is that Dunn is an elite prospect and one of those guys, who coaches let do what they want (e.g. Pryor, Seantrel Henderson...) and it's unusual to pull an offer from that highly rated prospect.