I will preface this by saying I have no empirical evidence to support this claim but my source, who is very well connected to football in TSIO and other schools, has never given me any info (well in advance of it being published) which didnt turn out to be true.
So here it goes:
Meyer told Dunn he would pull his offer if he visited Michigan.
BOOM!!!
Wow, if true, Urban Meyer is
Wow, if true, Urban Meyer is an asshole. If not true, Urban Meyer is still an asshole.
Special Teams means special times!
Pot calling the kettle black?
Pot calling the kettle black?
All of my pots are alluminum.
All of my pots are alluminum.
Special Teams means special times!
Well since Hoke does the
Well since Hoke does the exact same thing, is Hoke an asshole?
Founder of the Devin to replace Denard movement
I just moderated your post as
I just moderated your post as "informative" because I thought you had a valid point. Then I read your signature and I would like to take it back.
Well
1. Michigan makes it abundantly clear up front that if you commit, you cannot visit
2. Michigan does not have pending NCAA sanctions
He had a point (let's talk like he isn't here), but there are a couple of differences which in the whole scheme of things are pretty big. It's a pretty ballsy move by Dunn. Imagine if Dunn had visited Michigan. What would the fallout have been (hypothetical)?
Avatar is a reference to this. Go Blue!
Not the same
As I know it, Hoke says you cannot be considered "committed" if you are still taking visits, which means your spot is not saved until you do commit. This is entirely different than pulling the scholarship off the table if you take a visit, which can be considered as asshole-ish.
Well...
There isn't a ton of difference between this and what Hoke is doing...
Formerly akron_wolverine and columbus_wolverine. New home, new name. A year in Columbus was enough.
Hoke doesn't pull offers, he
Hoke doesn't pull offers, he just doesn't consider them committed and will continue recruiting other players at that position. Meyer just gave a kid trying to make the biggest decision of his life to date an ultimatum.
Special Teams means special times!
The mods at Rivals have said
The mods at Rivals have said that Michigan is no longer recruiting Pharaoh Brown. If that's the case, then it appears Michigan did the same thing to Pharaoh Brown as Urban Meyer did to Bri'onte Dunn.
This is why Drake Johnson was offered - as an insurance policy for Dunn. It kind of sucks, but it's not the end of the world. These types of things happen in the recruiting world, and I don't think Dunn is a make-or-break recruit.
posted from iPhone
Maybe Pharaoh told them to go away?
I know from experience dude. If you know what I mean.
The Rivals mods have said
The Rivals mods have said that it has been Michigan's choice not to pursue Brown further. I'm not vouching for the truth of that statement, just relaying the info.
Is this subsequent to
Is this subsequent to Mattison's visit to Brown last week? Is that what Mattison told him?
EDIT: nevermind. The posts below say the visit was a rumor.
Correct me if I'm wrong,
But I thought that the coaching staff stopped pursing Brown because of how he took his visit not because he took his visit.
Yep, that's Simba made out of a pineapple.
I think that's an assumption
I think that's an assumption that has not been verified. Either way, the coaches told Richardson that he would not be considered a commit if he visited elsewhere. It's unclear if they still would have recruited Richardson, but the evidence with Brown suggests that the coaches are taking a pretty hard-line stance.
I don't think it's fair to
I don't think it's fair to compare the Brown and Dunn situations though. Nothing really changed from the time Brown committed to the time he took his visit. There have been 3 different head coaches at Ohio since Dunn committed, plus they had all of the NCAA violations come out.
Special Teams means special times!
Mattison's visit to Brown
Any thoughts on how Mattison's visit to Brown plays into the Rivals chatter?
Links:
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/pharoah-brown-receives-visit-mattison
Man ball. Formerly, somebody else.
that was a false rumor as
that was a false rumor as verified by Tom and wilftong
Touchdown Manningham! MICHIGAN WINS!
False Rumor?! On the internet?!
F-that. Next you're gonna tell me that Craig James didn't really presumably kill five hookers while at SMU because paying them for services provided would've exhausted his PAC account.
Man ball. Formerly, somebody else.
Yeah, I agree that this
Yeah, I agree that this happens all the time. And while I think Dunn will be a good back, he was always a lean to Ohio and I figured it would be an uphill climb to convince him to pick UM once Ohio remedied their coaching situation.
Wish him the best, but I don't think Meyer did anything other than tell him he needed to make it clear if he was in for Ohio or not. Nothing wrong with that.
I wasn't aware of that. I
I wasn't aware of that. I think there might be more to them deciding not to continue recruiting him than the visit itself though. I think it says a lot about Brown that he tried to do it secretly since he knew he wasn't supposed to. I've never met the guy or heard anything about his character, so I won't jump to any further conclusions about his character. Hoke and co. have made it pretty clear what type of guys they want to play for them though.
Special Teams means special times!
So what
Dunn is not entitled to a ship to osu, Meyer can do whatever he wants with them, if this is true and I suspect it is given how things went down, it sounds like Meyer was upfront with the kid, it may not have been what the kid wanted to hear but so be it, he had every opportunity to tell Meyer to go to hell.
Meyer is becoming easier and
Meyer is becoming easier and easier to hate.... This isn't remotely close to what Hoke does, btw. Hoke says if you visit you aren't fully committed and we will look for alternatives. This is saying "you cant try to find what school fits you best, because if you try I won't let you come here at all." Scumbag.
COYS and Vive Le Rouge of Detroit FC!
False. Hoke and staff
False. Hoke and staff completely stopped recruiting him after the visit to Oregon. It wasn't "we'll just look for alternatives."
Founder of the Devin to replace Denard movement
As anyone can tell from your tagline,
you are not so bright. Therefore it isn't surprising that you don't grasp the difference between continuing to look for other players and outright telling a recruit--ala Dunn, that you have no place here no matter what you do. Think about it a minute.
Now having said all of that. I'm not here to say that this stance alone makes Meyer a scumbag, it's the kind of thing that happens a lot in recruiting. RR used to say if you continue to take visits, you really aren't committed, and he was right.
"Everyone gets dumped Gabe. Let me give you some advice: a little coverup on your Adams Apple will make it appear smaller. Which will make you appear less like a transvestite."
He's the head coach of
He's the head coach of biggest rival, that isn't enougb to hate him for?
"A Michigan Man will coach a Michigan Team"
You are assuming....
that the OP has it right.... Meyer said "Pull your offer" and not "No longer consider you committed"..... and that it some how didn't get mistranslated between his source and his source's source.
Even so, I think it's pretty much the same thing. Hoke tells recruits that they are no longer committed if they are taking other visits or, basically, your offer has a chance of going to someone else.
I'm guessing this is pretty standard in the coaching world.
All right Lemmings. Bring the heat.
I think the big difference
I think the big difference people are missing is that Hoke tells these recruits from Day 1 when they commit, and even before that, when you are committed you are expected to be done with recruiting. Meyer could have easily come in from Day 1 and tell all of his commits about this policy but he chose to wait weeks, felt threatened by Michigan, and told Dunn specifically that he would pull his offer.
I think it is a blessing in disguise. I like the idea of going into next year's recruiting being able to tell 5* RBs (that are, let's be honest, better than Dunn, ike Ty Isaac) that they'll have one year behind Fitz and then they have a chance to be the Man.
Well, it's not a big deal,
and if Dunn wants to play for 3 to 5 years for a human being like that (over Hoke), good luck to him.
"They're stuck with that quarterback (sophomore Braxton Miller) for the next two or three years, that's fine with me. He throws worse than (Tim) Tebow. - Steve Everitt
Hoke has the same policy. If
Hoke has the same policy. If true, it seems like a pretty smart move by Meyer. There isn't much sense in holding a spot for someone who isn't really committed to you. The reality is that Dunn wasn't really committed to Ohio prior to last week.
I'm still holding out hope that the NCAA gives Ohio a Bowl ban. I think Dunn will flip if they do.
Hoke does NOT have the same
Hoke does NOT have the same policy. He keeps the offer with the kid, just no longer considers them a commit. A BIG difference.
posted from iPhone
That isn't true. If a kid visits elsewhere, the Michigan staff would pull the offer if they could find a better fit in the meantime. Otherwise, what's the point? It's a semantic difference between Hoke and Meyer's policies, and I don't have a problem with either one.
Now whether Meyer was bluffing is a guess that the Dunn family probably had to make.
I will try this with an
I will try this with an analogy.
Example 1: You go to buy a car at a dealership. You test drive it and you like it. You talk to the salesman and hammer down a price. You tell the salesman you would like to shop around. He says that he is fine with that, but he can't hold the car for you. If someone else comes along and offers him the same money for it, he will sell it.
Example 2: You go to buy a car at a dealership. You test drive it and you like it. You talk to the salesman and hammer down a price. You tell the salesman you would like to shop around. He says that you either buy the car right now or you will never be allowed to buy it. You explain that you need time to think about it but he insists that you make your decision right now without comparing any other dealers.
See the difference now?
posted from iPhone
Well put.
Denard has spent the offseason working really hard and smiling at people.
posted from iPhone
What if you keep coming back and wasting that dealers time by test driving the car? In the end always saying "I still want to shop around".
exactly
The difference is, the dealer has to sell a certain number of cars by the end of the day.
If the same customer keeps coming back for more test drives and questions, it's wasting the dealer's time, causing him to potentially not meet his end of the day sales goal.
Correct. It could have been
Correct. It could have been a one time strategy employed by Meyer, or it could be his blanket policy.
I guess the hole in the analogy would be Dunn's behavior. He has been a commit, then a soft commit, a visitor on U-M sidelines twice (on the opposite side of Ohio at Michigan Stadium), talking about an official U-M visit, etc...
In the end it was Meyer telling him to shit or get off the pot.
I agree that those two
I agree that those two situations are different but I don't think Example 1 describes Hoke's policy. At least I'd be surprised if it did. Do we think Pharaoh Brown was free to come back from his Oregon visit (say, the following Monday or Tuesday) and say, "Coach Hoke, I checked out the other college/dealership and your offer is better, therefore I wish to remain committed/buy the car at the price we discussed."
My understanding is Hoke would not have allowed him to recommit so easily. Otherwise, Hoke's rule would have zero teeth, and commits would visit other places, roll the dice that no other player would commit in that 48 hour span, and re-commit on Monday. I think Sam Webb discussed this last week and said something to the effect of, "If Pharaoh Brown is allowed back in this class (at least, without serious reflection by the Michigan coaches), the other members who wanted to take visits but didn't (e.g., Richardson) are going to be a bit miffed."
I don't think Sam said "miffed" but you get my point.
From what Magnus is
From what Magnus is reporting (from the Rivals mods about Brown) it appears that Example 1 might not be an accurate portrayal of Hoke's policy. It appears that his policy is closer in line with Meyer's. At that point the line is much more fuzzy in the difference between the two, if there is any at all.
i'm bad with analogies
i'm bad with analogies, so help me out. what kind of car are we talking about again?
:)
I am not really Coach Schiano. -Coach Schiano on Mgoblog
One other significant difference...
is that Dunn doesn't need to buy OSU's car.
"The straightest line from A to B is straight: From A to B"
"When you have Denard Robinson, you can have everything"
~George Walden
Different policy. If this is
Different policy. If this is true, Meyer effectively said "If you're still interested in other schools you are not welcome here." Hoke's position is more like "If you're still interested in other schools that's fine, but don't label yourself as committed. We will continue to recruit you but other players of your position, also."
Hoke's policy ensures we don't get screwed by an indecisive kid while allowing that kid to make the best decision for himself. Meyer's policy doesn't allow recruits to compare schools. It's either commit right now and end your recruitment or you're not allowed here, even if you end up deciding this is the place for you.
"I'm the guy who does his job. You must be the other guy."
posted from iPhone
I think you're reading too much from the specifics of each case. This policy basically gives coaches an opportunity to step back and ask, "Okay, do we still want this kid in the class?" without doing anything wrong if they drop him. We probably still want/wanted Brown. If Standifer had done the same thing a month ago, he probably would have been told that his spot wasn't likely to stay available if he went.
I agree that Hoke's policy
I agree that Hoke's policy says that, but Meyer's is a lot more harsh. As in "now or never." I'm sure we're still recruiting Brown, and I bet that if Standifer wanted back in (if he fixed his grades or whatever the rumor was) Hoke would welcome him back, as long as another corner hadn't committed to us at that point.
"I'm the guy who does his job. You must be the other guy."
posted from iPhone
I agree. If you read between the lines this means Meyer is ok with losing Dunn and gives an easy way out.
On the other hand I could see OSU being way over it with all the Dunn drama. So in this case I think the tactic can be justified.
Just to add I would have visited Michigan on principle alone if someone said that to me.
It just shows
he truly wanted to be at OSU.
Yea there is a difference
Yea there is a difference between not considering a player committed and pulling his offer outright. One is a bullying tactic and the other is simply a safeguard.
I've decided to lay off the food for a while, and go on the booze.
If true, I don't have a
If true, I don't have a problem with this tact. Weren't we lauding Hoke for alegedly doing the same with Pharoah Brown?
No. It's not the same thing.
Hoke (I believe) said that if Brown takes an official visit to another school, he will consider Brown to "un-verbal" to Michigan, meaning that Michigan would also look elsewhere and it would not be a free pass for Brown to look at others, while Michigan would stopp recruiting his position. He may end up at Michigan still, if was not a pulling of an offer, though.
The difference is that Dunn is an elite prospect and one of those guys, who coaches let do what they want (e.g. Pryor, Seantrel Henderson...) and it's unusual to pull an offer from that highly rated prospect.
"They're stuck with that quarterback (sophomore Braxton Miller) for the next two or three years, that's fine with me. He throws worse than (Tim) Tebow. - Steve Everitt
BOOM!!!
In Hoke We Trust!