things go poorly
OT - Okie State's Marcus Smart shoves fan
I'm assuming something egregious was said and he was justified. If someone knows specifics, I reserve the right to change my opinion.
Unless the N bomb came out, I just can't see any justification for going after a fan. But who knows. I was watching live and nearly spit my drink out.
I'm seeing that Smart told Ok State officials that the n-word was used. If that's the case, i would have a hard time keeping my cool too. This guy is one of Tech's super fans and looks to have a history of heckling oppenents.
End of this video
If only fans could carry at games, this would have turned out so much better. /s
So if someone says nigger you have a free pass to do whatever you want ? You have got to be kidding me.
Talk shit, get hit.
Don't wanna get hit? Don't talk any shit.
I'd agree with you in general. But not when a fan is talking shit to a player. If a player hit afan everytime they heckeled a player, wow that would be a disaster.
People said they could understand him shoving a fan if the fan used the n-word. Nobody said he or anybody else has a free pass to do anything they want.
I don't know why people think being a fan gives them a free pass to heckle without consequence.
Unless the fan actually physically assaulted the player, there is never an excuse for a player to go after a fan. Even the N-word. Smart should learn that before going to the league.
Is this what it's come to now? Black players have a built in excuse any time they lose their cool? Just like Tom Gholson.
And basically is just you condoning racism. if we want things like racism to go away as much as possible, it should _never_ be ok to call someone a racial slur like that. Especially not to a college kid who's not paid to be out there. There is a massive difference between, "you suck!" and "you suck, n_____!" The first is common fan fare, the second should not be accepted by anyone, not Smart, you, me, or any one else there that heard it. But that you think it's okay shows enough about your thought process.
If that happened in walking down a random street, that dude would be lucky he only got shoved, and in plenty of streets would get far worse.
Smart didn't attack, he gave him a shove and walked away. If anything giving how frustrated, insulted, and completely exhausted both mentally and physically he probably was I actually consider that level headed. If he "snapped" like people on the internets keep saying, that fan would have been in the hospital.
You're doing a great job of attacking that strawman from your high horse there. I haven't seen anyone saying they condone the use of racial slurs at games or anywhere else. Being against using racial slurs and against the actions of Marcus Smart in this instance are not mutually exclusive or contradictory positions.
I never(!), ever condoned racism in my response. Where did I say the fan was in the right? Or show me where I said it is OK for fans to call players racial slurs. Also, show me the proof where we know the fan did call Smart a racial slur.
My point (which you completely missed and probably don't even care about on your crusade to paint everyone who thinks Smart crossed a line as a racist) was that it is never OK for a player to cross the line into the stands and physically assault a fan. Never.
That doen't mean I'm OK with a fan dropping N-word all over the place (and for the record, no one actually knows if that happened, you are just assuming/hoping it did as some sort of excuse for Smart). Frankly, judging by the responses on this thread it would be a great move by Smart to just make up that the fan said something racist b/c for most people here that gives Smart a free pass to do whatever he wants.
Also, its absurd to say that "Smart didn't attack". There was nothing physical until Smart did attack. Smart is pretty lucky that this didn't get completely out of hand.
Here's what I want to know, and no one has been able to answer so far: why do we have this "pact" where its OK for fans to verbally assault players, and they can NEVER cross into the stands and defend themselves do to some imaginary taboo boundary?
You say its "never OK for a player to cross the line into the stands." Why? Smart was already in the stands because that's where the play took him. And if a fan is shouting racist things at him two feet from his face (hell, it doens't even have to be racist it could be any unacceptable insult), he can't do anything about it....why? Why? Why is it forbidden?
And personally, that fan -- not Smart -- is lucky things didn't get out of hand.
Again it is NOT OK for fans to verbally assault players. The reason you can't have players attacking fans is for everyone's safety. You've got a few thousand people who are all charged up, alcohol involved in some, who are all rooting for the same cause (home team). And visiting player shoves a fan on your side and things can get out of control. The last thing you want is a couple hundred idiots that think they're justified in going after an opposing player b/c he came into the stands.
Both Smart and the fan are lucky things didn't get out of hand. That being said, Smart has a lot more to lose.
... fans do not have the right to verbally and racially abuse players. Buying a ticket to an event does not give you the right to racially intimidate individuals. Would it be wrong if 10 people started a racially intimidating chant? Where do you draw the line? And for fucks sake, we are talking about college athletes here. What's next, lining up the klan at the doors of the classrooms when black students want to enter?
I say this with the caveat that I am speaking in abstract here. I do not know what happened in this instance.
Not that we know what was said. But the behavior of the fans is a matter for the school and their security to handle. Certainly, no one would like to see the players take care of a group of chanting fans.
Read my post again. In no way am I saying the fan was in the right. In fact, I think a lot of fans (even ones that aren't using racist slurs) are idiots and shouldn't be allowed through the door.
All I'm saying is that it is never OK for a player to cross the line into the stands and assault a fan. There is no excuse, even retaliation for a racist taunt. That was my point.
You're one of those guys who will argue until you're blue in the face and never walk away.
Honestly, I think sports would be much better if fans had the same common sense and respect for people in the arena that they do on the streets or in the office. In the real world if you talk shit to someone there's a very real chance that there's going to be repercussions. Somehow we've gotten to the point as a society where just because you paid $75 for a ticket that gives you the right to say the most vile stuff about someone you don't even know without any sort of consequence.
So, it's my opinion that if more fans got knocked the fuck out for being extremely disrespectful, the world would be a better place.
Problem solved and end of discussion.
The fact that Smart is going to be suspended (like he should) and nothing is going to happen to this old crazy guy is insane.
Especially when the solution is simple. Ban that person from your campus. That will stop people from saying shit like this just as much as a "free license to beat (the person) up."
It may not be as entertining, but it would work...and it's not like someone isn't going to ever buy those seats again. Hell, if it's a season ticket holder, put a disclaimer on the season tickets that say NO REFUND if you're banned for behavior like this. Now you can sell the seats twice!
It's almost like when some idiot throws something on to the playing surface, people point him/her out because THEY don't want to be the person kicked out of the game when they didn't do anything.
If someone does this, point them out, kick them no only out of the stadium or arena, but ban him/her from campus (our PD actually sends a letter to the person once they've been banned and then they letter goes to the athletics department so they're aware).
If Texas Tech does nothing, it condones what was done or said AND it is not doing it's job in protecting student-athletes and providing a safe environment for all players AND fans. Don't forget about the other fans. I don't want my kid hearing that crap the TT fan was yelling, I also don't want my kid getting hurt when Smart comes into the stands and pushes that fan for what he said.
Exactly. Everyone will be wringing their hands over how deplorable Smart's actions were, but probably nothing will happen to the fan. And he'll go to another game and continue to yell things at the athletes/teenage kids. And considering that he's down on the baseline, you know there's security down there, and they probably have a very good idea of what this guy says.
So I'm with you. Ban this guy from campus. There has to be a limit to what fans can say and do, and when they cross that limit, there needs to be consequences.
I do think some fans take the trash talking too far, but if schools are going to start banning people for yelling stupid things at players on the court, then they either need to start banning students or move the student sections. Fans yelling offensive crap at players has been going on for a long time without players reacting like this. It doesn't make it right, but, Marcus Smart is the one with the problem, and it's not like the fans in the NBA are going to treat Mr. Smart with kid gloves.
and directly confronting opposing players with racial slurs (as is reported here) are completely different.
Smart was paying no attention to the guy before whatever was said, so clearly he said something a little more than typical fan shouting.
I don't like how playing a game somehow distorts what should be all accepted social convention. ANYWHERE ELSE in the country, call someone that word and you're due just about any reaction; but that is a kid less than half your age playing a game on a court, and nope it's totally OK for you to call him whatever racial slur you like.
He pushed the guy...he didn't take out a gun and shoot him. We're not talking about murder.
If the guy used the N-word and got shoved for it. So be it. Move his tickets off the floor, suspend Smart for a couple games and let's move on.
People are responding like someone died.
Meanwhite, I'm waiting for the LSUFreek fark of this.
OMG Smart shoved him this is so morally deplorable!!!!
No, this is only a debate if someone got gravely injured.
I think that would be a fair punishment for both parties involved.
Anyone saying the n word with the 'er' ending or 'a' ending deserves to get punched in the face.
I think it's clear from the video that the superfan says
ゴジラ (I attack Tokyo!)
In any event, while Smart could have handled himself better, the push did no harm to the guy. It's not like he punched him.
If the superfan did use the N-word, then he's not exactly a help to the Texas Tech program/recruiting.
Maybe someone can read lips in Japenese?
I just watched a Tomb Raider review in your comment box !
Watch the video at :26. Smart gets up to go back on the floor when he clearly hears something from two rows behind him that makes him go off. My guess is that it wasn't "Guns Up!".
Something happened that set Smart off, a word or action. He then goes after the dorky old guy who thought he was at a Raiders-Cowboys game instead of a Red Raiders-Cowboys game. Dorky hausfrau then gives the WInona Ryder shoplifting trial shocked face plus a fingerpoint.
The problem for Smart is that he swung at a pitch in the dirt. Bad move no matter what was said. Took away whatever chance his team had at winning the game. Is he so bad at trash talking that he can't rip a balding fattie to shreds without touching him? Weak.
What's with the older gramma clapping her hands in Smart's face (0:29)? I bet she won't do that again.
I used to think he was a real talent but now it seems like he's mainly focused on trying to draw fouls by flopping (badly)
I just saw a piece on ESPN a few days ago about how he may be hurting his stock with emotional outbursts this year.
Good for him I applaud him
After watching the video I do not think the guy said anything. Marcus was not even looking at him and I do not think he would have heard him say anything. That said I think the guy may have stepped on his hand/ kick at him. I am making assumptions here, but Marcus seems to put his hand down to help himself up in the general area of the guys feet. And I think the guy also says sorry man
Edit: Not making excuses for Smart I think he is in the wrong here.
restraint by not breaking that woman's finger.
What video did you watch? He was about a foot from the old white guy's face and looking directly at him.
Not sure how to embed links, but Desmond Howard posted this...same fan...
Here's something else about the same fan. He seems to be a fixture at both home and away games with the team:
Love the comments all praising this dude; one saying that this guy is "the blueprint" of what Red Raiders should be.
You seem to have a lot of emotional investment in this. Coming from a conference where a coach espoused "60 minutes of unnecessary roughness", you are going to call out their fans?
Just bored on a Saturday night and following a story that has become bigger than the Olympics. Thanks though.
This coupled with the chair kicking will be a red flag to a lot of GM's looking at him for the draft. Goodbye, millions. Probably not all the millions, but some.
If he drops to the late lottery it may be better for his career. I doubt this affects his stock much. His struggles lately on the court are a different matter.
Charles Barkley threw a fan through a plate glass window, and according to the basketball hall of fame, his career went pretty damn good.
I am not saying that Smart won't have a good or great career. I am just saying this will affect where he goes in the draft and that will affect his contract and income. Abra kadabra.
Yeah maybe he goes mid-to-late first round. Gets on a good team as opposed to a dud and plays in the playoffs every year. Oh yeah, he'll still probably make millions.
Smart commits a hate crime on the fan. SMH
The FBI defines a hate crime as:
A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.
I don't think this really fits this criteria. I know you were making a joke, but hate crime is a strong thing to throw around. On a separate side note, I know it's only semantics, but it bothers me that ever time a black player is involved in a physical altercation it is deemed "disgusting," which is exactly what the commentator on ESPN said.