to play football, not to play trumpet
OT - Okie State's Marcus Smart shoves fan
I'm assuming something egregious was said and he was justified. If someone knows specifics, I reserve the right to change my opinion.
Unless the N bomb came out, I just can't see any justification for going after a fan. But who knows. I was watching live and nearly spit my drink out.
I'm seeing that Smart told Ok State officials that the n-word was used. If that's the case, i would have a hard time keeping my cool too. This guy is one of Tech's super fans and looks to have a history of heckling oppenents.
End of this video
If only fans could carry at games, this would have turned out so much better. /s
So if someone says nigger you have a free pass to do whatever you want ? You have got to be kidding me.
Talk shit, get hit.
Don't wanna get hit? Don't talk any shit.
I'd agree with you in general. But not when a fan is talking shit to a player. If a player hit afan everytime they heckeled a player, wow that would be a disaster.
People said they could understand him shoving a fan if the fan used the n-word. Nobody said he or anybody else has a free pass to do anything they want.
I don't know why people think being a fan gives them a free pass to heckle without consequence.
Unless the fan actually physically assaulted the player, there is never an excuse for a player to go after a fan. Even the N-word. Smart should learn that before going to the league.
Is this what it's come to now? Black players have a built in excuse any time they lose their cool? Just like Tom Gholson.
And basically is just you condoning racism. if we want things like racism to go away as much as possible, it should _never_ be ok to call someone a racial slur like that. Especially not to a college kid who's not paid to be out there. There is a massive difference between, "you suck!" and "you suck, n_____!" The first is common fan fare, the second should not be accepted by anyone, not Smart, you, me, or any one else there that heard it. But that you think it's okay shows enough about your thought process.
If that happened in walking down a random street, that dude would be lucky he only got shoved, and in plenty of streets would get far worse.
Smart didn't attack, he gave him a shove and walked away. If anything giving how frustrated, insulted, and completely exhausted both mentally and physically he probably was I actually consider that level headed. If he "snapped" like people on the internets keep saying, that fan would have been in the hospital.
You're doing a great job of attacking that strawman from your high horse there. I haven't seen anyone saying they condone the use of racial slurs at games or anywhere else. Being against using racial slurs and against the actions of Marcus Smart in this instance are not mutually exclusive or contradictory positions.
I never(!), ever condoned racism in my response. Where did I say the fan was in the right? Or show me where I said it is OK for fans to call players racial slurs. Also, show me the proof where we know the fan did call Smart a racial slur.
My point (which you completely missed and probably don't even care about on your crusade to paint everyone who thinks Smart crossed a line as a racist) was that it is never OK for a player to cross the line into the stands and physically assault a fan. Never.
That doen't mean I'm OK with a fan dropping N-word all over the place (and for the record, no one actually knows if that happened, you are just assuming/hoping it did as some sort of excuse for Smart). Frankly, judging by the responses on this thread it would be a great move by Smart to just make up that the fan said something racist b/c for most people here that gives Smart a free pass to do whatever he wants.
Also, its absurd to say that "Smart didn't attack". There was nothing physical until Smart did attack. Smart is pretty lucky that this didn't get completely out of hand.
Here's what I want to know, and no one has been able to answer so far: why do we have this "pact" where its OK for fans to verbally assault players, and they can NEVER cross into the stands and defend themselves do to some imaginary taboo boundary?
You say its "never OK for a player to cross the line into the stands." Why? Smart was already in the stands because that's where the play took him. And if a fan is shouting racist things at him two feet from his face (hell, it doens't even have to be racist it could be any unacceptable insult), he can't do anything about it....why? Why? Why is it forbidden?
And personally, that fan -- not Smart -- is lucky things didn't get out of hand.
Again it is NOT OK for fans to verbally assault players. The reason you can't have players attacking fans is for everyone's safety. You've got a few thousand people who are all charged up, alcohol involved in some, who are all rooting for the same cause (home team). And visiting player shoves a fan on your side and things can get out of control. The last thing you want is a couple hundred idiots that think they're justified in going after an opposing player b/c he came into the stands.
Both Smart and the fan are lucky things didn't get out of hand. That being said, Smart has a lot more to lose.
... fans do not have the right to verbally and racially abuse players. Buying a ticket to an event does not give you the right to racially intimidate individuals. Would it be wrong if 10 people started a racially intimidating chant? Where do you draw the line? And for fucks sake, we are talking about college athletes here. What's next, lining up the klan at the doors of the classrooms when black students want to enter?
I say this with the caveat that I am speaking in abstract here. I do not know what happened in this instance.
Not that we know what was said. But the behavior of the fans is a matter for the school and their security to handle. Certainly, no one would like to see the players take care of a group of chanting fans.
Read my post again. In no way am I saying the fan was in the right. In fact, I think a lot of fans (even ones that aren't using racist slurs) are idiots and shouldn't be allowed through the door.
All I'm saying is that it is never OK for a player to cross the line into the stands and assault a fan. There is no excuse, even retaliation for a racist taunt. That was my point.
You're one of those guys who will argue until you're blue in the face and never walk away.
Honestly, I think sports would be much better if fans had the same common sense and respect for people in the arena that they do on the streets or in the office. In the real world if you talk shit to someone there's a very real chance that there's going to be repercussions. Somehow we've gotten to the point as a society where just because you paid $75 for a ticket that gives you the right to say the most vile stuff about someone you don't even know without any sort of consequence.
So, it's my opinion that if more fans got knocked the fuck out for being extremely disrespectful, the world would be a better place.
Problem solved and end of discussion.
The fact that Smart is going to be suspended (like he should) and nothing is going to happen to this old crazy guy is insane.
Especially when the solution is simple. Ban that person from your campus. That will stop people from saying shit like this just as much as a "free license to beat (the person) up."
It may not be as entertining, but it would work...and it's not like someone isn't going to ever buy those seats again. Hell, if it's a season ticket holder, put a disclaimer on the season tickets that say NO REFUND if you're banned for behavior like this. Now you can sell the seats twice!
It's almost like when some idiot throws something on to the playing surface, people point him/her out because THEY don't want to be the person kicked out of the game when they didn't do anything.
If someone does this, point them out, kick them no only out of the stadium or arena, but ban him/her from campus (our PD actually sends a letter to the person once they've been banned and then they letter goes to the athletics department so they're aware).
If Texas Tech does nothing, it condones what was done or said AND it is not doing it's job in protecting student-athletes and providing a safe environment for all players AND fans. Don't forget about the other fans. I don't want my kid hearing that crap the TT fan was yelling, I also don't want my kid getting hurt when Smart comes into the stands and pushes that fan for what he said.
Exactly. Everyone will be wringing their hands over how deplorable Smart's actions were, but probably nothing will happen to the fan. And he'll go to another game and continue to yell things at the athletes/teenage kids. And considering that he's down on the baseline, you know there's security down there, and they probably have a very good idea of what this guy says.
So I'm with you. Ban this guy from campus. There has to be a limit to what fans can say and do, and when they cross that limit, there needs to be consequences.
I do think some fans take the trash talking too far, but if schools are going to start banning people for yelling stupid things at players on the court, then they either need to start banning students or move the student sections. Fans yelling offensive crap at players has been going on for a long time without players reacting like this. It doesn't make it right, but, Marcus Smart is the one with the problem, and it's not like the fans in the NBA are going to treat Mr. Smart with kid gloves.
and directly confronting opposing players with racial slurs (as is reported here) are completely different.
Smart was paying no attention to the guy before whatever was said, so clearly he said something a little more than typical fan shouting.
I don't like how playing a game somehow distorts what should be all accepted social convention. ANYWHERE ELSE in the country, call someone that word and you're due just about any reaction; but that is a kid less than half your age playing a game on a court, and nope it's totally OK for you to call him whatever racial slur you like.
He pushed the guy...he didn't take out a gun and shoot him. We're not talking about murder.
If the guy used the N-word and got shoved for it. So be it. Move his tickets off the floor, suspend Smart for a couple games and let's move on.
People are responding like someone died.
Meanwhite, I'm waiting for the LSUFreek fark of this.
OMG Smart shoved him this is so morally deplorable!!!!
No, this is only a debate if someone got gravely injured.
I think that would be a fair punishment for both parties involved.
Anyone saying the n word with the 'er' ending or 'a' ending deserves to get punched in the face.
I think it's clear from the video that the superfan says
ゴジラ (I attack Tokyo!)
In any event, while Smart could have handled himself better, the push did no harm to the guy. It's not like he punched him.
If the superfan did use the N-word, then he's not exactly a help to the Texas Tech program/recruiting.
Maybe someone can read lips in Japenese?
I just watched a Tomb Raider review in your comment box !
Watch the video at :26. Smart gets up to go back on the floor when he clearly hears something from two rows behind him that makes him go off. My guess is that it wasn't "Guns Up!".
Something happened that set Smart off, a word or action. He then goes after the dorky old guy who thought he was at a Raiders-Cowboys game instead of a Red Raiders-Cowboys game. Dorky hausfrau then gives the WInona Ryder shoplifting trial shocked face plus a fingerpoint.
The problem for Smart is that he swung at a pitch in the dirt. Bad move no matter what was said. Took away whatever chance his team had at winning the game. Is he so bad at trash talking that he can't rip a balding fattie to shreds without touching him? Weak.
What's with the older gramma clapping her hands in Smart's face (0:29)? I bet she won't do that again.
I used to think he was a real talent but now it seems like he's mainly focused on trying to draw fouls by flopping (badly)
I just saw a piece on ESPN a few days ago about how he may be hurting his stock with emotional outbursts this year.
Good for him I applaud him
After watching the video I do not think the guy said anything. Marcus was not even looking at him and I do not think he would have heard him say anything. That said I think the guy may have stepped on his hand/ kick at him. I am making assumptions here, but Marcus seems to put his hand down to help himself up in the general area of the guys feet. And I think the guy also says sorry man
Edit: Not making excuses for Smart I think he is in the wrong here.
restraint by not breaking that woman's finger.
What video did you watch? He was about a foot from the old white guy's face and looking directly at him.
Not sure how to embed links, but Desmond Howard posted this...same fan...
Here's something else about the same fan. He seems to be a fixture at both home and away games with the team:
Love the comments all praising this dude; one saying that this guy is "the blueprint" of what Red Raiders should be.
You seem to have a lot of emotional investment in this. Coming from a conference where a coach espoused "60 minutes of unnecessary roughness", you are going to call out their fans?
Just bored on a Saturday night and following a story that has become bigger than the Olympics. Thanks though.
This coupled with the chair kicking will be a red flag to a lot of GM's looking at him for the draft. Goodbye, millions. Probably not all the millions, but some.
If he drops to the late lottery it may be better for his career. I doubt this affects his stock much. His struggles lately on the court are a different matter.
Charles Barkley threw a fan through a plate glass window, and according to the basketball hall of fame, his career went pretty damn good.
I am not saying that Smart won't have a good or great career. I am just saying this will affect where he goes in the draft and that will affect his contract and income. Abra kadabra.
Yeah maybe he goes mid-to-late first round. Gets on a good team as opposed to a dud and plays in the playoffs every year. Oh yeah, he'll still probably make millions.
Smart commits a hate crime on the fan. SMH
The FBI defines a hate crime as:
A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Hate itself is not a crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil liberties.
I don't think this really fits this criteria. I know you were making a joke, but hate crime is a strong thing to throw around. On a separate side note, I know it's only semantics, but it bothers me that ever time a black player is involved in a physical altercation it is deemed "disgusting," which is exactly what the commentator on ESPN said.
and possibly a racist.
It doesn't matter what the fan did. As a player, you can not put your hands on him. It's no a no-win situation for that player, there's no way you don't look bad.
people should stand up to ignorance and shitheads. And the NCAA should back Smart and start doing something about the fan. The idea that a black player should ignore being called a nigger is ridiculous.
I find it amazing how indignant and agitated people get, calling for punishment and so on over conflicting second and third hand accounts of what was or was not said.
doesn't call anyone else that slur because he knows even a player may get up in his face for it, Smart won.
here. Maybe Smart called him old and he snapped.
The fan probably did say something, but that doesn't matter at all. The guy was not close to smart at all. I thought this guy was going to be getting up in smarts face and then smart pushed him away, which did not happen at all. Smart made the first move towards him. He should have been ejected.
Doesn't matter what the fan said, even if the guy has a history of shit-stirring. He could have called him anything, M-er F-er, gay, N-word, anything...But you CANNOT push a fan and an old woman. Absolutely unacceptable. We'll see what happens but I wouldn't be surprised if Smart's year is over. What an idiot.
He's gonna get closer to 0 than the rest of the season. 2-3 games is my guess
You're probably right. Ron Artest only got a slap on the wrist too...
Artest got suspended for the season without pay.
I realize that may not have been a stern penalty, but I wouldnt call it a slap to the wrist
Thank you for making my point
I thought I qualified my comment enough. Getting suspended for the rest of the season without pay was a decent penalty. I realize he should've gone to jail, but the NBA basically gave him their maximum penalty
You are literally too stupid to insult. Maybe one day if we meet in person I can pull out a dry-erase board and explain this all to you
Why are you being such a jerk? All I said was that I felt like Artest was suspended sufficiently. I'm not sure if maybe I missed something here. I realized that I disagreed with you, but I thought that happens when engaging in healthy conversations. You seemed to get upset quite quickly. I'm sorry if my lack of understanding of your post upset you. I will try not to let it happen again..
at your bar in Alpharetta, Mike...
The irony in this post is just to much to ignore. You call a person stupid and your the one throwing insults at a person on the internet? You call him stupid because you don't agree with him or don't have the same opinion. Everybody stop now! Someone on the internet is wrong and has a different opinion.
Come to think about it, I'm pretty stupid for even pointing this out to you.
furman needs to clean his glasses and go back to bed and get up on the right side! Why the heck are you giving someone such a hard time for stating their opinion? Artest got the nba biggest suspension ever and was not paid for more than half a season. I would say that is more than a slap on the wrist... stop being an a-hole!
sarcasm, folks. all sarcasm...
He was being sarcastic.
Artest climbed up into the stands (what, 20 rows deep?) and was throwing punches, not to mention the crazed look in his eye that was just bad news. This was one little shove, after the play brought him naturally into the stands, and then he immediately walked away. Really not a valid comparison (independent of the pro v college angle).
I get what you're saying here, but what artest did was def worse. the action is similar, the severity is not
It would be really dumb to suspend him for the rest of the year for a measly shove.
Why is it unacceptable to retaliate? Why do we have this mindset where athletes are somehow not allowed to stand up for themselves in the face of some loud mouthed asshole in the stands? Just because you bought a ticket, that doesn't mean you have rights to act like a fool with out consequence.
In general, I think the escalation from verbal to physical is typically unacceptable. This is independent of player vs fan, or whatever the situation is. I think you're ignoring that fact. Smart wasn't "retaliating" some physical assault.
Again, not saying it's OK for fans to act like complete assholes. I know that is the straw-man that is being set up to respond to anything remotely negative toward Smart.
In the words of john Wayne "life is hard-it's harder when your stupid."
In this case it's harder still when your stupid and angry.
No doubt a player can never retaliate but that fan needs to be punished as well. if a student made a racial slur they would b penalized for it. It's clear who the fan is and he should not b allowed to go to anymore games this season
Agree 100% if that fan made a racial slur. Which, by the way, would be monumenally ignorant on all fronts given the relative racial make-up of the team he supports. And if he did I retrack my post on Smart not being.....smart.
By the way - here's a picture of the "fan" in question from a previous game. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't make that gesture to Davis off the court.
His face would just be covered with a white sheet so Davis couldn't see who he was.
Dumb decision by the young man. I unfortunately would have probably done the same thing in a similar situation when I was 19.
Former Okie State player Doug Gottlieb has a few tweets from someone who knows the fan. The fan says he feels bad for saying something he shouldn't have said but " it wasn't vulgar or the N word."
Wonder if Gottlieb is using his own credit cards these days?
He certainly understands being the center of attention for the wrong reasons.
Both parties look bad after an incident like this one. Smart should have kept his cool. He should be suspended. The superfan looks bad and should be barred from attending games. This isn't his first incident and he isn't attending pro games. He shouldn't be getting involved with amateur athletes.
The fan should be punished too.
I don't have much doubt that Oklahoma State will do something regarding Smart in the coming days because it isn't the best course to react like he did regardless of what the fan said. On the flip side, this guy - based on the information I have seen on this - seems like the sort of fan that probably ruins it for everyone. Gary Parrish had an interesting article early this morning in which he talked about how strange it is that professional sports seems to be the only walk of life where it is socially acceptable to yell random - even inappropriate things - at strangers, and that it is just as strange - perhaps moreso - at the college level. If Texas Tech knows this guy is a problem oe has now become one through words and actions, I think they would be wise to do something as well.
The whole situation is stupid. Everyone is wrong.
The stupid fans should be ejected for getting in the face of a 19 year old kid and clapping and pointing while trash-talking him. I seriously hate when fans think they are invincible. Little old ladies shouldn't point and yell 5 inches from a guy that could break them in half. I realize fans pay admission and should be entitled to enjoy themselves, but I hate fans who seem to only go to sporting events to threaten players and call them names. It just seems lame to me. Cheering on your team is fun, making it a personal battle against individuals from the opposing team (regardless of whether or not they react) is not fun.
On the other hand, Smart didnt live up to his name (horrible pun). Being mad is no excuse for shoving little old ladies, even if they are in the wrong for yelling/pointing at you. I have to agree that it is a shame people immeadiatley let him off the hook because there is speculation that the man said the N-word. Smart needs to have some self control. It is not as if black people dont call each other the N-word all day anyway. I realize that is the culture these days, but it just seems a bit strange to me.
IMO if a fan sitting that close has the balls to shit talk enormous athletes he should get whatever comes to him. I really wish he would have gotten smashed like that one dude at the end of the malice in the palace.
My favorite part of the brawl was seeing all of those cocky fans run on to the court looking for a fight, and then seeing the look of terror when they realized just now big an NBA player is. On the court, a 6-5, 260 lb guy can look small by comparison. But next to your average 5' 9" loud mouth? Huge. And not the kind of person you want to be getting into a fight with.
I am going to make this real simple. I won't bother explaining slavery, Jim Crow laws, discrimination, the KKK, etc.
If you are not black, you don't use use the N word. If you think that is unfair, add it to your list of unfair things in life. Just don't use the N word.
I don't disagree with you, I just think it's pathetic that without any evidence there are people just assuming 'white fan and black player, must have said n-word. Let's give player a pass'.
That's what I thought too but according to ESPN this morning that's exactly what Smart told an assistant coach did happen and why he reacted as he did.
After Amadou Ba, do we as a fanbase really have anything to say about this?
more like marcus dumb hurr hurr
but seriously, the kid should've kept his cool. The redneck will continue to be a useless redneck. Smart has a high draft pick and milions of dollars to aspire to.
it is all the more admirable that Smart took a stand against this racist idiot. With all nof that on the line he did what was right.
Disappointed to see so much racist rhetoric in regards to Marcus Smart's emotional outbursts! I'm not judging, I'm just not accustomed to reading so much in one Mgoblog post! Smart's team is on a four game losing streak, was losing a tight one on the road and some eccentric fan who has publicly displayed a lack of class during a game once before, apparently uses a racial epithet... I can understand the reaction under the circumstances! Respect is greater than a game of basketball and though it is not wise to to say the least, to address bigotry in the way Smart did, I still feel the downward social comparisons are unwarranted under the apparent circumstances as I am sure you cannot guarantee a different reaction if it were you in the same situation! Go Blue!
Maybe he called him out for being such a flopper.
This was a situation that could have easily escalated. What if he had gotten tangled up with the fans after the push? I don't know what effect this might have on his draft prospects, but I can't imagine any NBA team accepting the excuses thrown around here. There are certain lines you just can't cross.
It does look like the guy said "Sorry about that" but you can't see what he was apologizing for.
Sometimes when I read through an MGoBoard College Sports open thread I imagine doing the Hulk smash on some of you. People get pissed sometimes. Shit happens. I shouldn't picture ripping your arms off but I do. I'm sorry.
Judging by twitter, this is turning into another Richard Sherman type deal where contrarians get on their high horse and over complicate a pretty simple issue. With Sherman, I don't care if he's a Stanford grad with a history with Crabtree or if he's classy or not. He was being a dick and that was pretty obvious. Leave it at that. He acted like a selfish dick.
Smart can't shove fans. What was said is irrelevant. I teach my 6 year old to worry about herself. Unless someone is physically threatening you, you aren't justified laying a hand on someone else.
The fan appears to be an entitled dick who has lost all sense of perspective and should be banned from the arena or at the very least moved to seats where he can't interact with the players.
To me the whole thing is pretty simple. Two people have shown they can't handle their current situations and should be punished.
Two things: What Sherman did was not un-classy or selfish. He called out someone who had been calling him out. The difference was he had just made a play to win the game, against said person, and had a live national TV audience. Just because someone is louder than you're comfortable with doesn't make them a selfish dick.
In this case, I just don't understand what the difference between fan and player is. If another player released a stream of racist profanities at Smart, no one would mind if there was a shove or two. That dick in the stands is representing his university just as much as Smart is, and there's no excuse for treating a 20 year old kid that way. He got off light with just a shove.
I certainly don't praise violence for the sake of violence (not that I'd call what Smart did even remotely close to violence) but there are occasions where you make a choice between ignoring someone and standing up for yourself.
Racist language is used frequently between athletes during competition
Of course. And you see them shove and yell and get back to the game and the media doesn't go nuts on them afterwards. That's exactly my point.
You make a few assumptions about why I said he's a selfish dick. It has nothing to do with him being louder than I'm comfortable with. He was selfish for bringing a personal fued to the head of the coverage of a great team win in a team sport.
I didn't excuse the fan (though I think you're making an unconfirmed jump by implying that he "released a stream of racist profanities"). He should be held accountable for whatever involvement he had, but that doesn't excuse Smart's actions.
We also fundamentally disagree on what violence is. Putting your hands on someone and shoving them in anger is violence. I can't really understand how anyone would think otherwise.
is NEVER irrelevant
No matter what was said, he has to be suspended. Full stop.
If the fan dropped the n-bomb, bar him from games. But that or anything a fan says can't be used as justification for a player to go after them. If the fan or the ones around him had decided to shove Smart in retaliation, you could have the Palace brawl all over again.
Why are we assuming the fan dropped an n bomb? Because he's white and it's a black player? Always has to be about race nowadays too doesn't it?
Have you spent much time getting to know baby boomers in Lubbock Texas? Nobody can say for sure but if the sample of guys I know from Lubbock is at all representative I would put it at very good odds that the N word was used. Doesn't excuse anything that happened either way.
Have black players, right? Which would include the team this guy is associated with. Zero chance this guy said anything racist. As everyone knows, that word would include EVERY person of that race, and saying that word would be in essence, offending every person. Smart, like someone said, had anger issues and he'll likely (or should be) suspended for a minimum of 10 games. Making excuses for poor behavior is the norm these days. Either that or look to Jesus for assistance. Because believing in a higher power, who is conveniently unresponsive, sounds good on paper.
I know a Texas Tech fan who is the son and one who is the grandson of a KKK member and they love TT football. So yes, I have heard someone both root for TT and use the N word. Yes they have black players.
I didn't. That's why the first word of the second paragraph in my post is *IF*.
Smart can't shove fans. What was said is irrelevant. I teach my 6 year old to worry about herself. Unless someone is physically threatening you, you aren't justified laying a hand on someone else.
How do you know he wasn't being physically threatened?
Being physically threatened doesn't mean verbally threatened. All Smart has to do is turn around and walk to the court and he is nice and safe.
By all means though, let's continue making excuses and justifying the emotional actions of a player that clearly crossed the line.
Yeah because when you were a 19 year old kid you never did anything stupid.
People like you should make like a tree and get the fuck outta here.
When I was 19 I wasn't a social figurehead of a major university, nor was I looking forward to being a lottery pick in the upcoming NBA draft and making millions of $$$.
This is fantastic. Every current and future 19 year old should be elated. Because someone else had done something stupid when they were 19, all current and future 19 year olds are now justified in also doing something stupid! This is a breakthrough of epic proportions!
It's make like a tree and leave. You moran
Typical of today's society. Always looking for excuses as to why someone may have done something out of character. What he did was extremely wrong and uncalled for. He now needs to pay the price for his actions. The guy kicked a chair onto the court last week. He clearly has anger management issues.
Bob Knight kicked chairs onto the court for 30 + years.
The world today is soft and that's why some fucking blowhard asshole sitting in the stands thinks he can talk shit to a college kid. I can't believe you guys are attacking that kid. 50 + year old men should know to keep their fucking mouths closed.
It is soft today. Soft, as in let's make excuses for everyone and give them second, third and fourth chances.
So middle aged white guys get all the passes and young black men get none?
Although I think you make a great point, I see this less about black and white and more about fan and player. I think there's a code of conduct that fans should adhere to and regularly don't. From the least egregious ("Player X is the worst fu**ing POS in the world! Get rid of the bum!") to the most (saying something derogatory directly to the player when you know he can hear you, especially personal things like race or religion), it's all wrong. Sorry, I don't care how into the game you are, how passionate you are. If you can't act mature as a fan, you shouldn't expect the player to either.
Last I checked, middle aged white guys didn't shove anyone last night.
Last I checked, 20 year old black guys didn't spew racial epithets at a kid last night.
Understood, but that doesn't qualify as grounds for Smart to start a physical altercation. There really are no grounds under which it is permissible for an athlete to strike a fan. Smart should be dealt with severely by LSU and the NCAA.
The "racist" fan (tho I suppose we don't have confirmation on what words were exchanged so even this criticism is premature) was a jerk and should probably lose his tickets. Doubt it will happen as he sounds like he is a significant booster at TTU. That said, I don't think his actions (assuming he used a racial slur) are far different from what individuals from every fanbase, college and pro, in the country, ours included. People assume they have a free pass to use any derogatory term they wish at opposing athletes all in the name of "heckling" or "jeering".
If I walk by you in the streets and call you a " fucking pathetic crater of suck " you wouldn't get pissed and want to shove me.
Either you have way more self control than me ( which isn't hard to do, I'm a hot head ), or you're a huge pussy.
Either way negged because you made me type more than I wanted to this morning.
Or mature enough to walk away.
So by walking away he would have more self control?? That is what you're saying right?
On the street maybe but not if we were playing basketball in a rec league. Context is everything.
If I recall, Bob Knight was a chair thrower not a chair kicker. He was however, a player choker and as a result ended up at Texas Tech.
Apparently, TT approves of such behavior.
We don't know. But I can say without a shadow of doubt if the old white dude on the left in the black shirt was physically threatening the young black dude on the right wearing a basketball jersey he might be the dumbest person alive.
Maybe he propositioned him for sex?
Maybe he did.....
He won't be attending any more TT games.
Old dudes reaction when Smart turned at him was of someone who said something stupid not expecting them to realize he said it. It's an OH SHIT look, it also looked as if he was apologizing quickly in fear of getting his ass whooped. Old age doesn't necessarily make someone wiser.
The apologists in this post is kind of disgusting. Do I think what Smart did was right or the smart thing to do? No. But do I totally blame a 19 year old kid for having this reaction also? Not at all.
yeah that's def what it looked like. prob worried Smart would knock that horrible toupee off his head
It appears Marcus ain't so Smart.
We can hash this out all day long, but there is little doubt in my mind that something inappropriate WASN'T said. Normal fan banter. Smart is angry, was frustrated (at the game) and lost his cool. Fan looks annoying at best, but saying anything racist in public....no way. And that, makes Smart even more ridiculous for suggesting it.
Somehow, the least likable person in the Marcus Smart shove is the pointing lady.
— Royce Young (@royceyoung) February 9, 2014
lol she's pretty annoying. women sports fans like her just make me cringe
they had an article calling them super fans years ago. ESPN fan comments had a nice video of the guy doing the F U signal to another team after a dunk, couple of nice racists that the world is waiting to die so we can move on from those types.
When Marcus Hall got ejected at UM, the booing was pretty loud. That's ok to do.
But if someone started dropping n-words at the kid as he was leaving the field, there is a responsibility from fellow fans to tell him/her to knock that *stuff* off.
There is a line, and regardless of price paid for a ticket, decorum states that a human being should not say overly offensive things, behave overly aggressively towards, etc. another human being simply because they go to a different school or cheer for a different team.
That said, if TTU has a policy, precedent, or past practice that if a fan is caught yelling vulgarities and racial slurs at opposing players, he/she gets whatever, then obviously this guy gets that. But if it doesn't have that, this guy really shouldn't lose his tickets, be moved, banned, etc. And the fun of this now is that ESPN knows him and where he sits, and he gets to sit at a game for 2 hours scared to pick at his teeth or ears knowing every word/action is going to be caught on camera.
Now some reports saying that Orr said "Go back to Africa"
ESPN comments exposed him, his name and everything. He supposedly travels to games on the road.
From a friend of his from last night. And the fact that his "friend" made these public further reinforces in my mind what he said was real bad. My guess is this "friend" has heard him say this stuff before.....
Anyone could have created this conversation...
Doug Gottleib (CBS analyst, former Okie St bball player) posted it to his twitter. He said it was from a friend who is a close friend of Orr.
Judging by how this fan has acted in other circumstances, he probably got less than what he deserved. I don't care what anyone says, just because you buy a ticket to an athletic even doesn't mean you get to yell things at other people like you're less than human. Smart should have stood up, insulted him and walked back to the floor or better yet, done nothing at all and gone about his business. But this guy looks to be in his what, 40s or 50s? Act like an adult, not some trashy dipshit.
He should not be allowed back into a NCAA game if he is dropping n bombs on kids. Not sure if that is shat he did but if that's the case they better protect the players too here.
(Note. I still think smart should be suspended for awhile)
fan is a obsessive fan, racist, disgusting guy. Surprised smart didn't hit him.
Smart could do a lot of good by explaining exactly what the guy said to him in a press conference. If nothing else, make everyone else see what a dick he is.
maybe its policy not to interview after losses or coach didn't want the media jump on him, he didn't help with the chair kick incident weeks ago.
There's no doubt something quite innapropriate was said to him. But to excuse your actions by further calling out the guy is beyond immature. He needs to apologize for allowing himself to be provoked, regardless of what provoked him. Of course, this isn't to say he shouldn't fully inform officials as to what happened so that guy is never allowed at a TTU event ever again.
I honestly would not have been able to show restraint myself, nor would I easily be able to apologize. Then again, I'm not used to being in the public eye like Smart, nor am I a few months away from a multi-million dollar payday based upon a combination of my skills and behavior.
ended on that play and he wasn't happy as it was, the guy is notorious for being an ass to the other team. Add in to it that Smarts a hothead I'm surprised that's all that happened. If it was mid game I doubt he does it, he was pissed at the play and that jack ass opened his mouth. Game was over either way.
over after looking again but still he was pissed at the play and they were down 2 with 6.2 on the clock.
while one of two were also made on the technical foul, it was the technical foul that put the game out of reach.
If the guy said what was apparently said, brace yourselves for the 1st Amendment memes...
if one of our guys just lost the game ended up in the crowd on the layup and had a racist buckeye fan yelling in there face all game say something there face and only push the guy?
I think he did the best he could not to lay the guy out.
it will be all right.
I think it is more constructive to think of it the other way though. If a buckeye ended up in the crowd at Michigan and there was taunting and insults and maybe even a racial slur thrown, how would we characterize the buckeye after he shoved an M fan?
I cant speak for everyone but here's how I would feel if a buckeye shoved a Michigan fan hurling racial slurs at him.
Supportive and apologetic.
And i would hope the Michigan "fan" would get a perma-ban from all athletic events.
I would hope they ban the UM fan, he is a disgrace. This guy is probably known by the players who visit that place, he even goes to road games. I don't want to associated with those kind of fans.
I would want the fan ejected. If this was not the first time for such behavior I would likely yank their tickets.
I would also want the player assessed a technical, and probably eject them for everyone's safety. I might also impose a suspension because players should be held to a higher standard. (Not holding them to that standard invites more difficult to adjudicate and unfortunate behavior, and the players simply have to have a thicker skin if they want to succeed.)
As it happens, I was at a baseball game where a fan assaulted a player - some idiot threw his cell phone from the stands and hit Carl Everett in the head. Everett stopped play to get the cell phone and explain to the umpire what happened. Everett was a known hothead at the time and the fans figured they'd gotten his goat ... Until he came up next inning and absolutely crushed a ball into the stands. Got quite a few cheers from the crowd, which were very audible as the rest of the stadium was quiet.
If I recall, afterwards Everett was offered the option to press assault charges against said idiot.
I would be upset that the athlete didn't represent our University or himself in a positive manor. Just as I was disappointed by Taylor Lewan's behavior when he often lost his cool playing football. I much prefer Nik stauskas winning the game and blowing kisses to the fans as he runs off the floor.
typing on a phone juggling a 3 y old, he's heavy to juggle.
my favorite type of "news" story: where everyone involved looks like a dickhead.
IF....IF the fan called smart a N***** then I don't have a problem with what Smart did. It's not like Smart punched the guy. I side with Smart
I totally understand it but I have a problem with physically attacking some one vs dealing with it in a verbal way. Can you imagine if Smart had the wherewithal to grab an attendant and had the guy thrown out aka post pistons palace?
People would've been talking about that dude, not about thuggism.
Physically attacking? He shoved him, nothing more.
Why is that ok? No excuse to act that way. If the fan did he should have his season tickets revoked.
I can't imagine how dim you'd have to be, to be a racist basketball fan. Assuming that most racists would disapprove of all foreigners as well, it doesn't really leave much for them to cheer for. Every NBA team has black and/or foreign players, so how do they cheer for any team? And who exactly are they pulling for? Steve Blake? Kevin Love? Gordon Hayward? It blows my mind that people can be racist and sports fans. That's like being a devil-worshiping Christian.
Don't torch me for this but your post seems to insinuate that only whites can be racist. You said "If your racist who are you supposed to root for? Love, Blake, Heyward?" Plenty of "minorities" are racist as well.
Fair enough. I was kind of pointing to white males, because the fan involved was a white male. Also, I think it's fair to say that the majority of racism in America stems from white males. Or at least they are the most active.
it's funny how we think of racism as opposed to bigotry. anybody can be a bigot, but not anybody can be a racist. bigots don't like people because of certain non-reasons. racists are the same, except the majority to which they belong can also stop you from getting a loan, moving into a certain neighborhood, or getting a job... in America and Europe, the racists are white. in China and Japan, they're Asian. on mars, they're marsians. bigots, though, can be anybody, anywhere.
I work with a guy down in good-ol'-boy south Carolina. he's a 48-year-old white guy who roots for Clemson. he's a die-hard fan, trust me, in football and basketball. he loves the redskins and the Celtics. all he talks about are his favorite black athletes. however, he has a daughter who dates black guys, and he has a very serious problem with it. so there's a possibility of being hypocritical in your racial views and social tolerances, as humans are complicated beings. sometimes, we're pretty fucked up in our minds, 'specially when we're not intermingling with one another on a normal basis. he's from 2-red-light woodruff. it's not a melting pot. it's more Mayberry than Detroit. consider this: south Carolina is one of those states where you'll see bumper stickers of Calvin (from Calvin and Hobbes) kissing on a little black kid's head right next to a nobama sticker...right next to a gamecocks football sticker. so there you go...
So I go to the live feed. It is clear that Smart only turned because a grown fucking man (not a student in the Tech "whatever zone') said something to him. And you can tell it must have been bad--real bad. So Smart gives him a half-hearted shove. Now I agree that he should get T'd up. But outraged at his behavior? Smart is considered one of the better kids playing college basketball. The Tech guy apparently has a reputation as a first-class ass. Saying something awful to Smart as he tries to get up after a hustle play---real class. I'm sorry, the Izzone would have helped him up and managed to do it without a racist epitaph.
I still think he should have handled it differently but that would change my outlook on it a bit.
You mean the same Izzone that chanted "Who's your daddy?" To DeShawn Sims because his father was in prison and out of his life? Please.
Maybe it was just me but the guy he shoved looked an awful lot like Houston Nutt.
This situation is pretty black and white to be honest, no pun intended. This thread has devolved into an argument about who was right and who was wrong in this situation (Smart or the fan). Both were wrong.
If Smart felt he was in danger of being harmed physically by the fan, his push to separate himself from the fan would be justified. It's pretty clear that Smart was not in any physical danger or threat whatsoever. The fan made no attempt toward Smart that I've seen. There are also no reports that he threatened physical harm verbally.
That being said, the fan clearly provoked Smart to anger. The fan is also wrong. The culture of sports in America is that fans cheer for their teams and often taunt the opposing players. Personal insults directed at players are common place. Is it right? No. But there is an accepted norm that players should ignore any and all taunts regardless of their content.
Any American of any race in any walk of life is not permitted to assault someone because of the content of their words if those words are not threatening imminent harm on the person they are directed at. Smart is black. The fan was white. It's reported that the fan may have used the N-word. Unless we believe that every black person should be allowed to assault every white or non-black person simply because that person directed a racial slur at them, then Smart shouldn't have done it. I understand the history behind the N-word, but the usage of the word does not permit it's recipient to assault it's user.
Summary: Both were wrong. Suspend Smart to set a precedent that players are not permitted to assault fans, idiots or otherwise. Ban hammer the fan from TTU if it's proven his insult was racial in nature or so egregious in another way that he would be an unacceptable presence going forth.
intensity, they just gave up a 2+1(I believe) and he wasn't happy, momentum put him in the face of arrogance. He's hot headed, he showed it once, the guy said something that obviously set him off. If he heard it all game and he was already not happy about the play I get it, we all have our limits with people and I'm sure 90% of our team under the same circumstances would push the guy. If it was racist, I'm white, I would decked the guy if I sat next to him for his arrogance. Suspend him yes but he needs to come out and that university should apologize for there fan.
I can't stand fans who do this stuff. I don't think players should ever put their hands on fans, but it makes me sick to hear fans say nasty stuff to players. That doesn't make you a great fan, that makes you an asshole. You are who you are, whether you are at work, church, a movie, or a ballgame. Asshole.
I loved what the Michigan state fans and the Iowa fans did against stauskas with the u.s.a. chants and the simple boos. this is normal behavior that lends itself to the experience of attending the game. saying something directly to a player, racist or not, isn't good for a sporting event. it ain't clever, and it ain't fun. I don't know what the guy said. I don't like smart's "reply." but when tensions are high on the court, you never can say what'll go down. if somebody would've said anything to derrick rose when he missed the free throw to lose the national championship game, you never know what might've happened. he was an emotional wreck. and what about Webber after the timeout? if somebody would've said something stupid to him, I don't think he would've been the number one pick. he would've been on his way to jail, I'd say. so...the fan is lucky, and he'll be better off not ever telling anybody what he said. he should swallow it forever and move on. smart should be suspended for a few games, if only to show him that levelheadedness is a virtue and a necessity. In the past, black players were met with racism way more frequently than they are now, and they couldn't attack people without consequences. it's not the norm anymore, so when it comes today, it's more of a shock. I suppose black parents and guardians need to raise their children to expect racism at all times. that way, they'll be less shocked and less driven to "snap and pop somebody" when it comes out. I suppose...
Best part of this link is that some of the tweets edited out Africa in the phrase "Go back to Africa" so it looked like "Go back to A-----." Africa is a slur worthy of censoring now?
Okay, so pretty much:
1) Marcus Smart made a mistake in the heat of a frustrated moment and did something he shouldn't have done. Whatever.
2) Jeff Orr is an awful, racist fat slob of a human being. His hideous, idiot fat slob wife also seems at least as awful. His future will consist of waking up to her every morning and some strokes.
Not sure what their weight has to do with anything, but other than that you're spot on.
I realize the weight comment does carry some intolerance and how it's at least a bit hypocritical for me to say that while simultaneously calling someone else a bigot, but my personal belief is that, unless someone has a metabolic condition or is otherwise impoverished into a cheap processed and fast food diet, anything more than a little overweight is a reflection of a lack of personal discipline and responsibility. In other words, it's choosing gluttony.
Now I'm actually glad you made this point. "Fat" is a generally offensive term and also probably too blunt since a myriad of other issues like depression and alcoholism can be at play. I should have said gluttonous and will use that instead going forward when I want to use someone's flabby appearance to emphasize their obnoxiousness.
How has it been determined he is a racist?
The real issue is that the arena has a responsibility to remove fans that go too far. Texas Tech basically admitted that this "super fan" has caused trouble in the past - why is he still there? If something is not acceptable to say in the workplace then it probably doesnt belong court-side. Security shouldn't be allowing that garbage.
Orr's turn. If it is determined Orr's comments were racist, Tech needs to show class and not let that douche go to another home game.
Travis Ford sounds like he's about to cry.
TTU should ban this fuckhead and his family from all future events and every Big 12 University should also.
So there's that
They're the loudmouths who abusively berate the officials at high school hockey games, scream obscenities at the umps and opposing players at T-ball games, and drunkenly taunt opposing fans after MLB games. They brag to their families and friends about their exploits, and consider themselves Alpha-males because they act like raging dickheads.
In other words, they're Randy Marsh, only it's not funny in reality.
Smart will get punished for his actions, and I have no problem with that; you can't allow large, powerful men to attack gutless sacks of shit-filled suet sitting in the stands, however justified it might seem at the time.
Just to reiterate, Jeff Orr is a gutless sack of shit-filled suet.
Smart lied. The guy called him a ''piece of crap''. Both guys are wrong. You're a jackass if you verbally taunt college kids from the stands, and you're a jackass for letting it get to you so much AND falsely accusing someone of saying a racial slur.
Ya because Orr is definitely going to come out and issue a statement that he did use a racial slur. Given his past actions at games, I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt and call Smart a liar. At the very least, given the emotional situation, it's possible he thought he heard something that wasn't there but I don't believe he out right made it up.
It appears Smart lied. If that person in the video calling him "a piece of crap" is Orr as it presumably is, then Smart is an even worse person for falsely claiming he threw a racial slur.
Lying about being called a racial slur in order to avoid taking full responsibility for your actions is pretty bad. If true.
Kind of like falsely accusing someone of rape, it does a disservice to actual victims.
Orr has every incentive to lie to save what little skin he has left. Why is everyone assuming he's telling the truth and Smart made it up? You're going to take the word of a repeated jackass like Orr for what reason again?
Read my post again. Also why assume Smart wouldn't lie? I wouldn't assume either way, but as it stands it's a bad look for Smart.
he was going to get suspended regardless so it's not like it helped him. He told the coach's and refs almost immediately that Orr used a racial slur and a broadcaster heard this also. I highly doubt he decided to make that up within the what 15 seconds?
It's possible that Smart misheard given the situation but it seems unlikely that he outright fabricated it.
At that point he may have thought claiming a racial slur would result in a penalty that's less harsh. And 15 seconds is more than enough time to think of that.
Well the only piece of audio evidence we have been shown substantiate Mr. Orr's claim in the sense that some individual shouts "you piece of crap". There is no evidence available aside from Smart's own word that a racial slur was uttered. Nearby fans and media were interviewed following the game as a part of TTU's investigation, and no one stated they heard a racial slur uttered either.
I don't think anyone is being that unfair to Marcus Smart given that the preponderance of evidence, with the exception of Smart's sole account of the event, bears no evidence of Mr. Orr using a racial slur.
I'm not saying it's not possible that Orr didn't use a racial slur. My contention was that I don't think Smart outright made up a lie to cover his ass. Maybe it's possible he THOUGHT he heard a racial slur only to be mistaken. I just don't think that in the heat of that moment (fouling a guy, loss sealed, altercation was a fan, he was heated up) that the first thought on his mind was "Shit, let me make up a lie so I look good". He alleged that the slur was uttered almost immediately. Again, I think it's definitely possible Smart misheard it if Orr is actually telling the truth but given how quickly Smart made the allegation and the rest of the circumstances, I don't think he outright made it up.
Bears a lot of similarities to the Jonathan Martin vs Richie Incognito saga. Martin had some issues (depression? anxiety?) and walked out on his team, only to save face my claiming harassment and racism, making Richie Incognito a scapegoat and perceived as the scum of society when a lot of that was probably unfounded.
Smart lost his cool and shoved a fan who (as the evidence currently suggests) called him a "piece of crap". He then used racism to deflect attention away from his personal failures, but made Mr. Orr to be perceived as a racist in the process.
Both of these young athletes need to man up and take responsibility for their actions. By not admiring failure, but instead cowering behind the front of racism, they are not only ruining the lives of others, but are causing significant strain among race relations and are minimizing the significant problem that real racism still has in our culture.
I am trying to imagine someone getting in my face and taunting me at work. Would I shove them away? As non-violent as I am, I can't promise that I wouldn't. It's one (terrible) thing to taunt/insult someone from the sidelines. It's another to do it someone's face.
Sure Smart is wrong, but not that wrong. A shove and a walk away isn't that bad. It wouldn't even get a flag in a many football games.
To a fan
I don' t think that video helped resolve anything. Thanks for posting it, though.
Tech, and others, are saying this video supports Orr's claim that he said "piece of crap". I'm not sure, it's hard to discern what he is saying, at least to my not so young ears.
I could clearly here somebody yell "piece of crap". Whether it was Orr or not remains to be seen.
honestly? you dont?
Does it make me a racist to think he lied about being called the n-word when there is overwhelming evidence that supports this stance?
Has anyone besides Smart claimed they heard the n-bomb?