This seems like stuff guys would do at a frat hazing. But if its guys who are 20 doing this to guys who are 18 it is one thing. When it is a person in authority doing it it crosses a line. When it is between opposite sexes it crosses the line. When it is btw people of the same family it just gets sick. Etc.
So I think maybe you are talking of the actions which some people "outside the fringe" get as hazing but you are not getting the context. Imagine if your prof did this in class. That's the equivalent of a band director doing it.
It's impolite and lowers the level of discourse.
But you're an idiot.
If your son / daughter comes to you and says that, as an incoming member of the bad, you have been given a nickname which is likely sexually suggestive, perhaps even offensive (REF: the report linked in the article) and that, at the discretion of the upperclassmen, you are asked to perform "tricks" which relate to this nickname (in one case, a girl was asked to act as if she was having an orgasm thanks to a vibrator, per the report), you wouldn't raise an eyebrow and see that something was done about this right then and there?
It doesn't matter if it that parent is the first to formally complain (I somehow doubt it for some reason), I can't fathom just telling one's kid something which amounts to, "Well, you know how it is in Marching Band..." That it happened at all is unacceptable really, but that the culture was encouraged by someone supposedly in charge is appalling to me. Sorry, the argument from tradition is a fallacious argument.
Who knows how many parents complained in the past, or how many kids quit, and nobody ever heard about it. Maybe Waters is a scapegoat with the new president trying to make his mark, but at the end of the day, it was the right thing to do.
Of course, I'm also of a firm belief that the kids involved should also be punished for violating the student code of conduct.
https://studentlife.osu.edu/csc/
Prohibited conduct includes:
- Endangering Health or Safety
- Sexual Misconduct
- Alcohol
- Hazing
and more, probably
Your definition of fringe seems to be "everyone who isn't me," which is not what the dictionary says.
Do you they really need their parents to complain to get the rules against sexual harrassment enforced?
Uhh, I think you might be the lunatic fringe that finds it acceptable to be a complete asshole and sexually harass others under the name of 'tradition'.
-34 points in one week on the site, and you found the lunatic fringe? Me thinks you may have things reversed.
Or there is something seriously wrong with you.
And did you not see the bit about the sister and brother? Think we found the real lunatic here.
As a student my first reaction was just that I don't care about the band, but upon further reflection it's easy to see how this issue could've been swept away and dealt with quietly to protect the name of the university. I have a lot of respect for President Drake in bringing this to light, and terminating those involved, something President Gee wouldn't have done under the same circumstances.
is to penalize the students who perpetrated these activities.
Agreed but with Waters out, it won't be easy to get all the details now. They may have done all they can do with reasonable accuracy.
Drumline lol
Funny how 90 percent of the comments below that Dispatch article ripped on the paper for sensationalizing tame behavior.
There are some real die-hards commenting on the article that this is completely normal and acceptable behavior, and that anyone who does not like it should just say no or quit the band. That many of the commenters supporting this behavior are alums of "TBDBITL" (abbreviation for "the best damn band in the land") is also quite telling.
The fact that the fired band director is also an osu marching band alum is telling. Perhaps he, too, was jaded or accepting of the fact that this sort of behavior goes on. Either way, 2 years should have been PLENTY of time to change the culture, if he really wanted to.
what you are referring to is called a "lack of instituational control".
Sounds like the OSU band has been this way for a long long time, and the behavior was pretty much accepted and/or approved by the staff of the band.
Ohio State doesn't even do acronyms right.
The best damn sexualized culture in the land
It's always been an open secret the OSU band hazes like crazy. Especially towards the women. I wonder what took the administration so long to pull the trigger...
or perhaps that he wears blue jeans occasionally. That would indicate he was really out of control and needed to go.
The comment section on the Columbus Dispatch is hilarious. People actually think this behavior is perfectly fine. Oh OSU, what a great school!!!
Practiced in the spring at safety...wonder if he's really moved.
Mattison likes big CBs at Nickel...which is why Dymonte was there and why Avery moved even though it was his best position.
Peppers is a Mattison dream at Nickel.
Interesting take on the subject matter! (I kid)
OSU has an official office of compliance and integrity? That's the most shocking thing mentioned in that link.
The office is empty.
...and no one foresaw a "sexualized environment?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John_Waters_2014_(cropped).jpg
After looking at Exhibit B, I do have to admit that the OSU band has a real knack for catchy song titles. Who could argue with such classics as:
"The Hitler Song"
"All my semen"
"Balls to your partner"
"Bring back my boner"
"Carwile sucks raw dick"
"He's a sweet gay fag"
or my personal favorite
"Puff the magic tampon"
that there weren't more dirty songs insulting Michigan. What kind of Buckeyes are these people, anyway?
Fake ass buckeye's?
Other schools but we definitely have a few professors that are ... eccentric.
/edit: last time I try posting on this device. I got a double post and my reply, which was supposed be to the guy talking about Michigan profs, is buried way down here.
Also, context clarification I'm not implying I witnessed stuff similar to the article at Michigan.
They win football games, but man what a hellhole...
I think that kind of debauchery is great if it is all consenting adults. It's a lot like some "krewes" in NOLA do at their parties.
However, when people are forced to do this without their consent, it is not only sexual harassment, but a few of these things would be considered sexual assault in many states. It's clear that the students had two choices: participate or don't be in the band. It was Waters' responsibility to protect his students and he failed miserably.
I may never say this again, but congratulations to the OSU administration for doing the right thing.
Those fuckin band nerds are a bunch of horn dogs....they never got any in high school so they take out all their pent up frustration in college. Lol
Maybe band camp really IS all about sex
This whole affair is deplorable. Even the normally somewhat reasonable folks at elevenwarriors are actually condoning the actions of Jon Waters.
Read through these comments and prepare to be disgusted even more
Also in that comments thread: Section 1 doing Section 1 things
Worst state ever.
Vulgarity 10, Cleverness 0. It would be nice if we could get back to being as smug about our school's relative football prowess as we are about basic decency.
Is everyone in Columbus under the age of 14?
It goes back a long time, but when I was in the MMB, we had pretty awful versions of all the Big Ten fight songs. And Notre Dame.
To me the distinction is in choice. When you make this sort of thing obligatory to all members of the band, then you have a problem. Outside of the formal organization, 18-22 year olds are going to do raunchy childish stuff. It is part of being 18-22.
I think what's most unbelievable to me was the fact that Waters claimed he really didn't know drinking was a problem in his band.
During that stretch in the 2000s where it seemed OSU was going to Arizona for one bowl or another for what seemed like an eternity, the OSUMB routinely rented out a specific hotel that members came to give some resort-like name (which escapes me now), which they particularly adored purely for the fact it had a liquor store open directly across the street. Those kids went hard the entire time. Every time they found out they'd be going back to Arizona, even if it was a shitty bowl game, they knew to look forward to it.
Waters claiming ignorance is classic. There's just no way.
EDIT: This is not to say I'm anti-drinking, but when it exists in excess and contributes to an environment where harrassment and hazing occur on a regular basis, you have a problem on your hands.
There's a fine line between assault and harassment and if you ask me, a few of these definitely crossed the line. If I were to pull crap like this in the Air Force I'd be on the way to court and probably jail time for sexual assault. I hope OSU wakes up to the culture they're promoting on a daily basis down there. It truly disgusts me.
That they didn't join the marching band to "play school" anyway.
Or did I get that wrong?
So the band was dotting more than the I in Ohio?????