Please keep all meltdowns within this topic. All theories, complaints, congratulations, etc go here.
OT - Official Post-Game Red Wings Discussion
Kickoff in 118 days...
My official statement on this FUBAR situation is: poop.
There are CHILDREN reading this site.
Jimmy Howard. I hope this man starts for the US in the World Championship this summer in Germany. I didn't like the result but hey it just wasn't our year. Here's to 2011 for another playoff appearance we have a streak to keep alive! Go Wings for life!
Are you not a Ryan Miller fan? I know he was a sparty but he is absolutely the best American goal tender.
I am not a wings fan, a buffalo fan, a Miller fan or a Howard fan so I have no vested interest in this debate. I agree with you 100 percent that Miller is the best American goalie, and it isn't even close.
I got a bottle of mission street blonde ale from trader joes. really good beer actually, and only 6 bucks for a sixer.
what are the rest of yall drinking to deal with the pain?
That penalty shot was bullshit. Plain and simple.
Did it really matter? The score didn't change.
I don't see why you get negged like this for having a different opinion but I do disagree with you. The fact that he didn't score on the shot doesn't change the fact that it was a bad call, which was the posters complaint.
Full disclosure, I didn't watch the game so I have no idea if the call was bad or not but if the complaint was "it was a bad call" the fact that the guy didn't score on the penalty shot doesn't change that....at least not IMHE.
MSU Class of 43
was the basis for my MSU remark
wouldn't be the best hockey franchise in history if they never faced adversity. Its nice to see that in an off year we still advance past the first round of the playoffs.
Unhappy, Yes. Crushed, No.
I was just thinking that just about the most prolific playoff scorer ever (maybe a slight exaggeration) missed 60 games with an ACL reconstruction. To put that into perspective, 5-10 years ago an ACL recon took a professional athlete out for 12-14 months. Mule came back in 5. He wasn't 100%. Most of the team wasn't. They missed over 4 seasons worth of man-games due to injury this year and were led into the playoffs by a rookie goalie. Their youngsters got some experience and they will have a little more summer to heal up from the continuous grind of the last 2+ years.
In the future....
Howard will get better. He let in some soft goals this year.
Lidstrom will take a pay cut, enough of one to bring back Hudler to replace Williams.
They will bring up a 6'3" D who supposedly is a little rougher than anyone else on the team .They could bring up a forward whose speed will be second only to Helm's on the team (Mursak) and/or another skill/energy player in Ritola.
The only question in my mind is that if they need more cap space, where do they go? Anyone have any thoughts on a moderately tenured veteran who may have underperformed this year in the face of overwhelming need? Other than Bert? (I don't think he did that poorly for $1.5M, personally)
Williams is obviously gone. Hudler is in. Lidstrom takes a pay cut. I think Ritola comes up or gets let go. He's out of protected years in the AHL, I believe. Maltby goes to the AHL on a 2-way contract. Does anyone see any other roster change? I just can't see it d/t salary cap limitations. Would like to see someone a little rougher come in again.
I don't mean to be a jerk but that statement is a bit delusional don't you think? To even suggest that they are the best francise in the history of the sport when the Montreal Canadiens have more than double the number of Stanley Cups to their credit is ludicrous.
I understand they are your favorite team, and when they lose it hurts but people's credibility goes straight out of the window when they make absurd homerish remarks like that. They are a great team and will absolutely be back in the mix next year, hang your hat on that. Don't make things up to make yourself feel better, there is enough good things about the Red Wings to get excited about without doing that.
I can't complain in a year I knew would be an off year going to the 2nd round with a rookie goalie. Tough series to lose, losing 4 games by 1 goal, but they were a better team. We will retool, cut some lard and come back next year ready to dominate. Our guys need somewhat of a break too. Hopefully this early exit accomplishes that.
Most cities would be ecstatic to have their teams lose to the #1 seeds in the conference semis. Ah the problems with being a Red Wings fan...
If I had one complaint, it would be that Bertuzzi needs to take a hike. I would rather have a 6-3 240 lb enforcer than a shitty winger (who can't even handle the puck or shoot well) taking up a scorer's spot. If you think I'm taking it really hard, it's because I live in SJ and I have to hear about the Sharks for the next year.
Hey on the bright side, we outscored the Sharks 17-15 this series!
"Most cities would be ecstatic to have their teams lose to the #1 seeds in the conference semis. Ah the problems with being a Red Wings fan..."
Most fans are not happy when they lose.
Slight correction the wings only got screwed by the zebras in 4 of the 5 games but still I agree with your thoughts.
with a frustrating but not unexpected ending. Howard was, surprisingly to me, a revelation. The team was very good when healthy as well. I do think they need a bit more youth though, particularly in the D.
Say what you want about making game-losing mistakes or plays in general, but yet again, it happens on the resulting play of dispicible officiaiting. No dfferent than the 2006 football season really. Just because Ohio State and us got got beat bad in our bowl games doesn't excuse the fact that immensly unjust subjectivity on the part of human polling is what caused those match-ups in the first place.
Not that I'm surprised by things like this anymore. I'm a Michigan fan and a Red Wings fan, after all. That still doesn't make it suck any less. But at least I have shaved my hideous beard now, and I can take comfort that we didn't get screwed, nor are we likely ever to be, as hard as Michigan was in the tournament this year. If I ever meet that referee, he's going to need hearing aids when I'm done with him.
Maybe one of these days I will be given the off-season closure of a series in which I can honestly say we were beat fair and square. No uncalled blatant and intentional cheap shots, no bogus penalty shots, etc. You can never expect the officiating to be perfect, but maybe one day we'll lose a series where it didn't potentially cost us the cup.
Trade Bertuzzi to Tampa Bay for a cheerleader and a hot dog.
Trade Bertuzzi to Tampa Bay for a hot cheerleader and a dog.
Like a kick ass dock jumping dog.
I think we need a new McCarty-type guy to keep cheap-shot artists in check. Long live Darren Mac!
Mustaches for Michigan! You had an excuse!
Maybe it is a bit early, but that's because I don't look good with one. If you liked yours, you totally had an excuse.
I think the Red Wings should sign Mathew Lombardi which would add some more speed to that lineup. And as mentioned above, they need a big guy who can scrap it up since both Bertuzzi and Holmstrom are unrestricted free agents.
Any other thoughts?
I'm a big fan of Lombardi, he's got competent offensive skill, he's blazing fast, kills penalties, is young (under 30). Not sure how it could happen though. With Helm, Abdelkader, Miller and Eaves due up for re-signing, Hudler coming back, and Ritola being out of options and having to be resigned as well, there's logjam when it comes to forwards. And Phoenix might resign Lombardi anyway.
Looking at the lines for next year...something is gonna have to give.
Holmstrom (if he doesn't retire) - Datsyuk - Franzen
Filppula - Zetterberg - Bertuzzi (like I said, I believe he'll be back)
Hudler - Miller - Cleary
Eaves - Helm - Abdelkader
Have to assume they'll resign Ritola; what about Draper? Do they nudge him toward retirement? Or do they decide to let some combination of Miller/Eaves/Bertuzzi go and use that money to go after somebody like a Matthew Lombardi?
As for the defense...assuming Lidstrom comes back, the top four remain the same, it's the bottom pair that gets murky. Lilja, Lebda and Meech are all FAs. Meech seems like a lock to be gone. Lebda, who knows. I don't think anybody would miss him, but who knows what Holland's thinking. Lilja, I still say he needs to be back for his value on the PK. And then you've got Kindl, one of the prize prospects in the organization, he's out of options too and has to be up with the NHL club next year.
Lidstrom - Rafalski
Kronwall - Stuart
Lilja - Ericsson/Lebda/Kindl?
Of course, all bets are off if Lidstrom retires, that's over 7 million dollars for the Wings to spend however they please. It won't be QUITE that much, since some of it would be used to bring Hudler back in and maybe a bump in pay to some of our FAs...but the entire thing gets tossed on its side if #5 retires.
Verrrrrrrrrry interesting offseason coming up.
Let's go Penguins!
I would sit here clicking for an hour or so.
You guys who think Bert needs to go needs to think again. He had a pretty good darn year, and when all the injuries happend he stepped up during the season. And he didn't have a horrible playoff either. The penalties he was called for were marginal at best. Look at the one tonight. That was a horrible call. I believe he wants to be here next year as does Holland, and he'll come back at a cap friendly number. Williams is gone for sure. It'll be interesting to see what they do with Maltby. I think he'll have to have a 2 way contract or something to be with the team. I'd have to believe they'll re-sign Eaves and Miller. A lot will have to do on what Lidstrom does. I think he'll give it 2 more tries to see if he can go out on top. If he takes an Yzerman like contract, 1 mil a season, or something close to that, it will give Holland a bunch of room to work his magic. And if Lids wants to win 1 more cup I think he may take a million dollar contract.
What do they do in goal? Obviously Howard is their starter. He had an up and down playoff, but he sure did have a good night tonight. Osgood is signed until 2011, but do they bring in someone else. Are they still confident in Osgood. I see him playing 30 games next year, but is he up to the task? It'll be an interesting off season for sure, and to be honest, one that the Wings truely deserve. 4 seasons in 3 years is a lot of hockey.
I concur about Bert. And the fact WIllimas hasn't played in 10? games while Ritola saw the ice is proof of that.
The only person in goal they'll bring up would be Larsson. And they aren't going to bring him up to ride the bench. He and McCollum need to play more, not sit without playing.
Edit: capgeek.com and redwingscentral.com prospects list are a couple good places to get ideas about what the wings would need/be able to do. I like redwingscentral better than hockeysfuture
I don't think you're going to see Bertuzzi go anywhere. He wanted to stay after 2007, but the Ducks offered him enough to get him to go. He's three years older now, and nobody's going to offer him a ton of cash on the open market. He really likes it in Detroit, and Holland is fond of him. That and, as ominous as it is to say, he's the nuclear deterrant.
I don't think the Wings will be active on the market, personally. Mostly because they won't be able to. All bets are off if Lidstrom retires, obviously, but my guess is Lidstrom comes back for one more year and takes a paycut so the Wings can fit Hudler's salary in and re-sign the guys they want. Abdelkader and Helm are locks to be re-signed, Homer is too if he wants to come back. Ritola and Kindl have to be up with the NHL club next year, and I really hope Miller and Eaves are back, they were awesome for us this year.
Like I said though, that all gets thrown into flux if Lidstrom decides to hang em up. Big void at the top of the defense that would have to be addressed.
Losing all 4 games by one goal. A few bounces the other way and the Wings sweep or at the very least are much more competitive in the series. Luck is a cruel mistress I guess. Ah well, looking forward to football.......
I agree with the youth movement on D. I don't know what the Draft looks like, but I feel like we need to add some scoring punch to complement Z, Pavs, and Mule.
It was a tough way to go out, we could've packed it in mid-season. That resilience tells you a lot about this great franchise.
My hat is off the the Sharks; they played a great series and perhaps their guys and goalie have learned from the past couple years of defeat and are ready to win it all. I do think they were the hungrier team. The Red Wings have nothing to be ashamed about, a couple breaks here and there -or perhaps no break, as in Lidstrom's stick which led to the odd man rush and goal in game two- and we could well be the team moving on. Do changes need to be made? Nick isn't getting any younger, and perhaps some of the guys could be upgraded, but I'm willing to bet the Wings will be ready to be back in the playoffs when the puck drops next year.
It was a tough series, but this team probably needed the rest and will benefit from being out-worked by a team that probably wanted it a bit more. The Wings have played 303 regular+post season games the last three years, plus 10 or so Olympic games. This team needs to have any extra month to recover and refocus, and I fully expect them to come back next year on a tear.
not lost in Hockeytown. We have the best front office in the NHL and they will be able to navigate the offseason just fine.
I believe the Red Wings will be back next year better than they were this year due to the time off to heal and rest and with what Holland, Nill and Yzerman can do to tweak the roster in the offseason.
Let's Go Red Wings!!
Anyone watching them this year realizes San Jose was by far the better team. Red Wings looked slow and didn't play well together.
I would say that was actually probably the closest 4 games to 1 loss I've ever seen us play. We outscored the Sharks by 2 goals actually. Four 1 goal losses? Yeah, they really got SMOKED....
On to my thoughts...It's going to be hard for me to let go of this year's team. I got more attached to this team than even the better, previous versions. I think it had a lot to do with getting so much more into the regular season this year based on the fact we were fighting just to MAKE the playoffs at one time. I had a blast with this team. We got 12 playoff games of exp. for JIMMAH Howard. That will be very valuable in the future. Things still look bright! Come back next year well rested (An extra month of this year as opposed to the last two), and let's win our Stanley Cup back in 2011!
When you are playing 5 on 4 for most of the game, and have a 5-3 in 4 out of 5 games.
This was a bit of a bizarre series. How many times does a team score more goals total and lose in five?
Ultimately, the Wings needing a late push to make the playoffs, combined with a rough first round series and a number of long playoff runs, just didn't seem to have a lot of gas left in the tank. San Jose took full advantage of the opportunities they had (numerous 5on3's, Lidstrom's broken stick, etc.) and Detroit just didn't seem to have the energy to counterpunch.
I'm still bummed about this (and I still don't like Nichol, Murray, Heatley, Setoguchi and friends) but seeing the Wings congratulate Todd McLellan after the game made it hurt a little less. It's unfortunate that his success had to come at the expense of the Red Wings, but if you put a gun to my head and asked which Western Conference team I would be most ok with the Wings losing to, it would have been San Jose. I don't know why that's true, but it is.
We've just concluded the worst year for hockey (Michigan and Red Wings) in the last 15. Considering what the two teams accomplished this year, that's a pretty remarkable statement and I wish all my rooting interests were similarly blessed.
"This was a bit of a bizarre series. How many times does a team score more goals total and lose in five?'
<<Check out my avatar, that series the wings scored more goals yet still lost.
And to that, I say, "Ha!"
... now I'm going to rip the Pens.
Penguins best players: Crosby, Malkin, Fleury... all top 3 picks overall.
Red Wings best players: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Kronwall, Howard... all drafted late first round or 5th, 6th, or 7th rounds.
Difference between the organizations: Anyone WOULD have drafted Pittsburgh's best players, but they couldn't. Meanwhile, anyone COULD have drafted Detroit's best players, but they didn't.
Red Wings best organization in hockey, hands down.
The wings have $13 million in cap room to resign Lidstrom and 5 forwards (Holmstrom, Helm, Abdelkader, Ritola, Eaves, Bertuzzi...?). If Lidstrom resigns for $5 million or less that will gives us some flexibility (however small) to maybe go after a skilled forward to pair on the third line with Clearly and Hudler (or however Babcock wants to distribute them). I am pretty optimistic considering Chicago has a goalie, 2 defenseman, and 3 forwards to sign for next year and they are already $800,000 over the cap. The Sharks also have to resign Marleau and are feeling a little bit of cap heat, so here is to hoping those two clubs take a step back and the Wings retool and get rested after 3 long playoff runs.
I believe that Lidstrom will take less then 5 mil. He's already said if he comes back, he will not be part of a rebuilding process. So with that in mind, and i've said this before, I think he will take that Yzerman like contract. Holland will get that point across too, although he probably already knows it. It may not be 1 mil like Yzerman, but I can easily see a 2-3 million dollar contract. I also think it'll be his last season too. That alone should give this team motivation to win 1 more.
I'm a 'Nucks fan now. Or if they lose Bruins.
is now irrelevant to me, lets go Tigers!!!!
just don't want those penguin boys to win
I thought the Wings would dominate the poop-flavored San Jose Sharts. I was wrong. However, the Wings and their fans can take some solace knowing they got further than the goddamn poop butt Caps with their butts full of poop and shit.
I seriously thought this series would be over in five the other way. The Sharks did nothing to impress me through the regular season or their first round to give me any confidence in them. Turns out the minor miracle it took to get into the playoffs was the last hurrah this team would have. I like a lot of the players and I'd love to have them back...It may be an unpopular sentiment but I think its time to hang 'em up for Malts, Draper, maybe even homer (as much as I love him.) You've seen the reduced value in draper and malts as helm has emerged, zetterberg and dats have emerged on the PK, and getting good fill-ins like Miller and Abbi. I know that drapes and malts don't make a ton together (a little over two mil says nhlpa.com) but that extra room would help. I think Nick would come back for a much more friendly number (3 mil?).
Hudler's contract is taken care of by the dismissal of brad may, jason williams, (2 mil total) and some other minor changes. So he's not affecting your cap number that much. They won't be in the market for a huge name but nice mid level scorer or a 3rd/4th defensemen (in anticipation of Nick's retirement) would be a nice addition.
I'd like to see Lebda not come back and as much as I like Derek Meech he just doesn't seem to fit. Its going to be another Kyle Quincey situation. Great kid, just doesn't fit here and will go on elsewhere to be successful.
i dunno about saying bye to malts and drapes quite yet. drapes was one of our best skaters through the playoffs. his line with gator was always high energy and just flying around the ice. hes a experienced vet who doesnt take very much against the cap, and can tutor our young stars (gator, ritola, and co). malts is still an absolute pest, and should roaring to go after finally getting surgery on his shoulder.
and you want homer to go? hes still one of the best PP assets in the league. naw, bring those guys back, move off williams, toss in happy, give the kids some more time to develop in the minors.
one thing that wouldnt surprise me were if rafalksi were traded in the next year or two to give our younger D men (kindl, smith, ericcson) a chance for more PT. rafi looked old and overmatched at times this postseason.
San Jose is a great team but also benefited from some lopsided officiating in this series. My prediction for the next round: the officiating will be lopsided again... but the Sharks will be in for a huge surprise because this time it'll be in favor of the Blackhawks.
That's right - San Jose will look like a completely different team in the conference finals because they'll be on the PK in that series for almost as long as they were on the man advantage in this series.
The Sharks are about to get a taste of what the Wings just went through. Bettman wants Chicago in the Cup Finals.
Can we stop with conspiracy theories? Yeah, there were quite a few questionable calls in the Wings/Sharks series, and most of them went against the Wings. It sucks, we lost, but it wasn't because Bettman had the refs on speed dial.
... used hear that for about 15 years regarding the NBA and their biased officiating.
Then the FBI caught Tim Donaghy selling inside information to the mafia at a better than 60% rate of return.
Not hearing anyone defend the NBA anymore.
The Red Wings actually outscored the Sharks, but Detroit was 0-5 in one goal games this playoff year. The Wings also outscored PIttsburgh last year, Anaheim in '07, and Calgary in '04. As a franchise, the Wings have sucked badly in one goal games this decade and that is what has cost them in years where they haven't won the Stanley Cup.
I think Bert stays. It's not just about production anymore. It's about production vs. cap hit. With Bertuzzi, it's a good trade-off. I think that the Wings have to let Draper and Maltby go. Hopefully Lidstrom will re-sign with a much lower cap hit. I think that Holmstrom also re-signs with a lower cap hit. Detroit has some space due to get freed up, and nobody due for a significant raise, except maybe Helm.