Notre Dame has another player transfer. Mike Ragone is leaving for Kansas to be with former coach Weis. Former players Dayne Crist and linebacker Anthony McDonald are both former Notre Dame football players to join Chalie Weis at Kansas. Although Ragone was awarded a 6th year of eligibility, just shows these guys are just not buying into Kelly's system and would rather leave. I know there are other players who chose to stay for their teammates and not for Kelly like Manti Te'o. I think if Kelly has another bad year you can chalk him up as another bad hire for the Irish.
OT: Notre Dame tight end Ragone transfers to Kansas
Maybe he just doesn't want a third year of hearing "What the Fuck were you thinking..." screamed in his face while getting spit on.
Kids these days... such thin skin.
I think he may have anger problems. Unfortunate.
It is so difficult to see this GIF. You could not blame anyone but Kelly if gets punched in the face. He might scream at the wrong guy and get beat into a bloody pulp.
Cue the "Exploding Kelly-Head" GIF...
at ND, but if he is given time, i think he will win. You can't deny the guy has won every where he has been.
He is approaching RRod levels of attrition, top recruits decommiting around signing day, and an increased level of fan anger directed at him. I don't see how he wins, especially after this season, which most think will be a tuff year at ND. The fury will increase from the fans, probably causing him to be fired, especially when he does or says something stupid which he is prone to do .
Pointed noted, but i think RR would have won at Michigan if given time. Obviously there are other factors in play in both situations.
I can't see him being there much longer. He's won at many places but also worn out his welcome in a few spots. I know some former CMU players who don't have anything good to say about the guy. Let's just say there are some Petrino-like issues in his past.
Hes not doing himself any favors at ND. Don't forget about the issues from last year. Camera kid and St Marys coed
I've also heard that he doesn't leave a lot of friends behind in the athletic departments.
The "RRod levels of attrition" thing is cute, but inaccurate. Also, the only ex-coach encouraging transfers at ND appears to be on the outside of the program instead of the inside.
RR had won everywhere he had been as well..but Hoke didn't have nearly the career record or accomplishments.
Winning in the Mac and Big East...compared to winning on the big stage, with that pressure, the limits on players that can be brought in academically, and competing against UM, Central Columbus Tech, and Wisconsin for kids isn't helping his cause, or anyone elses. ND hasn't been nationally relevant since the early 90's (?) I think that's the last time they were ranked number 1. I don't know if it's the coaches anymore, it might just be the school, the culture, and the competition.
So if Kelly doesn't perform this year, is it safe to think he has a legitimate shot at being fired? Or would they give him a year 4
The odds of him being let go after this year are, as Dean Wormer would say, Zero. Point. Zero. He has a lot of supporters, they aren't expecting a NC with that schedule.
I believe ND is still paying off Charlie Weis, and possibly even Tyrone Willingham, so they probably won't fire another coach just yet. But Kelly could well be on the hot seat if he has another shaky season.
Remember correctly. This is more of a transfer to get playing time than a transfer because I hate Brian Kelly situation.
CAREER: One of six fifth-year seniors on scholarship on 2011 Irish roster (Harrison Smith,David Ruffer,Andrew Nuss,Gary Gray and Taylor Deverare the others) ... has played in 35 career games, including nine starts ... has recorded 10 career receptions for 99 yards, including a career-long reception of 30 yards against Navy in 2009 ... talented tight end helps to form one of best tight end combinations in college football when combined with Tyler Eifert ... good hands and good speed have helped him at tight end as well as make him valuable contributor on special teams ... missed sophomore season while recovering from knee injury suffered during training camp ... enters fall practice ready to compete with Eifert for starting tight end spot
I wouldn't stick a fork in him over this, but it does add to the pile.
Both Ragone and Crist were recruited by Weis, and have graduated from Notre Dame (McDonald was recruited by Weis, I'm not sure if he has graduated?).
All three of these players have battled injuries, have players in front of them as a result of it, and have a chance to play for the coach they originally signed for.
I think it's a reach to say that Kelly has lost the program by losing players that he didn't recruit. By that logic, you could say that Khoury, Cox, and Stokes show that Hoke has a problem, and we lost Caleb Stacey close to signing day
I do think if he has another bad year and doesnt win the 'BIG' games they will consider letting him go, but they will opt for a 4th year. Everyone said that Rich Rod would win here too, but loosing too many 'BIG' games just wasn't doing it. We beat everyone outside the Big Ten but always got smacked down when we started conference play.
Notre dame doesnt know what that is.
I don't think that Kelly's seat is boiling hot yet, but if he has a losing record this year (unlikely, I think), I would expect him to be gone. If ND has another 4-loss season, I think that 2013 will be a big "Put up or shutup" year for ND.
Their schedule is crazy this year though. Here are some of their major games:
Miami(YTM) at Soldier Field
They also have teams like BYU and Boston College who could give them a game
Edit: Schedule link http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/nd-m-footbl-sched.html
This is the first Notre Dame schedule I've looked at in a while that actually seems like a challenge. They play all of the same teams they usually do, but it seems those teams have finally gotten good at the same time.
They definitely aren't playing all the same teams they usually do - they haven't played Oklahoma or Miami in decades, they rarely if ever play BYU / Wake
Sept. 1 Navy - Dublin, Ireland
Sept. 8 Purdue
Sept. 15 @Michigan State
Sept. 22 Michigan
Sept. 29 Open Date
Oct. 6 Miami - Soldier Field
Oct. 13 - Stanford
Oct. 20 BYU
Oct. 27 @Oklahoma
Nov. 3 Pitt
Nov. 10 @Boston College
Nov. 17 Wake Forest
Nov. 24 @USC
Bold = could lose
Italics = must win (or face rabid fans)
12 games, 6 of them must wins. I think you are right that a losing record would be the beginning of the end.
Wow, that is a damn hard schedule. Now that I look at that, 7 losses seems possible (still less than a 50% chance to me, but it could happen). Dollars to doughnuts ND loses at least one of the "must win" games. Pitt, BC, BYU, Purdue, and maybe Navy are all teams that can beat ND when they have a good day and ND doesn't. I'm not sure about Wake. No gimmies for the Irish, and they lost a lot of guys from last year's team.
Purdue seems like a good possible loss. They will have to deal with jet lag in the week leading up to the game. I cannot imagine that will make practices easy.
He's not blocking these transfers to Kansas. I know they don't play them, but many coaches would be upset at the idea that a former coach may be poaching his players.
I agree but his motive may be just to stay out the the press. Every blocked transfer these days has been getting a lot of bad press.
Obviously, he loves the big guy xoxo
One thing to remember about Brian Kelly, his last two stops (CMU and Cincy) were both in conferences that were terrible at the time (MAC still is). When he won in the MAC, he never beat a decent OOC team. There's still something to be said for dominating a conference regardless of the level of competition, but we have seen at Michgan how domination in theater A doesn't translate into domination in theater B. When Kelly took that job, I noticed some of the uncanny similarities between his career trajectory and RichRod's. With that said, I think that RichRod's resume at WVU was more impressive than Kelly's at CMU and Cincy. I think that both of them, to some extent, failed to accurately assess their new level of competition. I think that both of them also failed to realize the level of ego that they were suddenly dealing with. One thing that I appreciate about Hoke that I hadn't thought of until he started recruiting was his level of expectations for the quality of competition and the quality of team that he would need to win. I feel like Hoke knows how to win in the Big Time and the he's going to have at least one 1-loss or better season at Michigan. I don't get that feeling with Brian Kelly (and I never got it with RichRod either).
Assessing the competition has nothing to do with the record Brian Kelly has had at ND or the record Rich Rodriguez had at Michigan. Kelly's first full recruiting class were true freshmen this past season. Rodriguez's were only a year older when he got fired. Neither guy's record is at all reflective of the program they were/are in the process of building, but rather what was left behind after they took the job.
For all the uninformed bitching people did about Rodriguez's recruiting, he left behind a fantastic team (11-2 last year, preseason top-10 this year as that first full class reach their senior season). For all the hype about Kelly's early recruiting efforts, we don't really know how good those guys actually are (and he's lost his most productive true freshman already). His track record also isn't as glowing as people want to make it out. Brian Kelly never built a program at Cincinnati in the way that Rodriguez did at WVU. He walked in the door and had immediate success and bailed before the guys he brought in became upperclassmen. Mark Dantonio spent three years recruiting at UC and Brian Kelly reaped the rewards. After three years at MSU, Dantonio has gone 22-5. To the extent there are discernible patterns in coaching success, they benefit guys like Dantonio and Rodriguez way more than they do Kelly.
We won't know what kind of job Kelly is doing unless he gets years 4 and 5 in South Bend. At the same time, I don't see a lot of reasons for Irish fans to be particularly optimistic about how those seasons will turn out.
decided schematic advantage.... hehehehe
I thought another poster had a good point when he said Kelly is not connecting with the type of kids that go to ND and he works much better with the kids that don't normally get recruited by a school like ND.
I enjoy how Michigan fans on this site are frequently mocking ND fans for being myopic, then cite evidence proving they are completely misinformed about what's going on in South Bend.
The reality of the situation is that after Tyler Eifert, who was a Mackey Finalist last year, ND has three young TEs, Ben Koyack, Alex Welch, and Troy Niklas, who were all highly recruited with multiple years of eligibility, competing to be the second TE in the offense.
Seems like a no-brainer for Kelly and his staff to develop one of them, especially with Eifert almost certainly leaving for the NFL next year, rather than bring back Ragone for a 6th year, someone who has suffered multiple severe knee injuries during his career. Seems like a no-brainer to him to play one last year at Kansas with a couple of his friends and the coach who originally recruited him, with a much better shot at PT.
If Kelly was losing the program, would Michael Floyd, Manti Te'o, and Eifert forgo millions in the NFL to return for their senior seasons? Would ND have 6 5th-year seniors returning? This just in...not every player with an extra year of eligibility returns, at programs across the country.
Not saying everything is perfect with ND football, far from it, but to quote Mike Gundy: "Get your facts straight!"
Lots of tight ends in South Bend.
Manti did not return for anyone else but his teammates. This was obvious from the fall out Te'o and Kelly had last season. FACT. Kelly is a dick and people are just putting up with him. The players made it obvious that the team is more important than a nationaly televised red-faced screaming prick.
Not every successful HC is a player's coach. I would say if Manti Te'o is returning because of his devotion to the team (which I agree with) rather than a personal allegiance to Kelly, that's still mission accomplished on Kelly's part.
This is a Michigan blog right? Isn't it "the team, the team, the team" not "the coach, the coach, the coach?"
YES, not be a player's coach is one thing, but to treat his players during games like he does is another. That's right Michigan is all about The Team, The Team, The Team not 'You FUCKED UP, You FUCKED UP, You FUCKED UP!' and do this on national television? There is an obvious difference between our squad and Kelly's. Not to mention ND put the smack down on Kelly after his theatrics.
He certainly lost his composure during the South Florida game, which was a mistake on his part and shouldn't happen. He's not the first coach to do that though (see Pelini, Bo) and won't be the last.
He is tough on his players, especially on game day. It works for other coaches like Izzo and Saban and it's worked for Kelly at his previous three stops. Maybe it won't work at ND, time will tell.
Back to your original premise though, the attrition we've seen, in particular Ragone, isn't due to to Kelly losing control of the program. That premise is false and misinformed.
OK fair enough...
If you can find me one example of Bo screaming at one of his own players the way Kelly did in the South Florida game, just one example, I will go out and buy a Notre Dame t-shirt. (And I despise Notre Dame more than you could ever imagine.)
He went off on officials quite often. No doubt about that. But berating and humiliating a player when they made a huge mistake in a game? Never.
I'm in full agreement Kelly had a meltdown during the USF game, not looking for another coach doing the same to somehow justify it. That's not something I would waste my time doing.
He lost it, I can understand why and point to other coaches who have done the same, but that doesn't justify it.
If Te'o, Floyd, & Eifert left and a bunch of others were transferring because they hate him and what he's doing to the program, then I would be in full agreement with many on this thread. The attrition that has happened is either natural (i.e. playing time or guys just decommitting in the recruiting process) or outside of Kelly's control as far as we know Lynch/Shepard.
Kelly still has a ways to go to equal this guy.
Keep in mind also...that's his backup QB (at the time) and his team is up 20 on Mississippi State.
And probably BK. I think Hoke and RR also have the same philosophy... We want Michigan Men, and ND wants whatever they call their version of that (Irishmen?)... If you don't want to be here, dont be here... Really not that complicated.
This kid was going to be at the bottom of the depth chart, so he left. Makes sense to me.
Leaving one jackass coach to play for another jackass coach. More power to him.
Ragone didn't get invited for a 5th year of eligibility. He didn't technically transfer as he graduated and will now be getting his Masters degree at Kansas.