OT- Notre Dame 2012 = Ohio State 2002
Nothing is worse than seeing one of your rivals win, except when they keep winning and aren't THAT good. Don't get me wrong, OSU 2002 and Notre Dame 2012 are solid teams with great defenses, but both are eerily similar in their ability to win so many close games and never appearing to be dominant.
Just like OSU 2002, Notre Dame is having one of those magical years where every call, turnover, break, big play, and general karma seems to be going in their favor. While their defense is stellar and overall team is solid, nobody would believe that they are the best team in the country....but they keep winning, and that is all that matters.
At this point, who knows what will happen. OSU lucked into the 2002 championship game and beat a much better Miami team. It would suck if Notre Dame did the same and knocked off an Alabama, LSU, or Oregon.
We played both Alabama and Notre Dame, andwith some degree of certainty can acknowledge that Alabama is in a different class. That being said, ND is one big win (USC) away from a date in the national title game, and at that point anything can happen. Really annoying when a rival has a magical year....Even more annoying when you know they arent't that good. Shit, had Denard not turned the ball over 5 times, we would have beat that team.
October 28th, 2012 at 8:48 AM ^
Great topic... I was thinking that Kansas State was the 2012 OSU because OSU didn't have the most athletic QB but was very smart and won games for them. Notre Dame has scratched and clawed its way out of many games with their defense much like the buckeyes but ND just has a much better quarter back compared to Krenzel.
One person commented on the fact that USC will probably have a few loses by the time they play ND. If USC does implode, that win could be over a team not ranked in the top ten for ND but that equally could be bad for Oregon. There could be a good chance Oregon and USC don't play twice in the same year and the Ducks plays maybe UCLA, Arizona in the tite game... While a brand name win over USC is good for any tme, the Ducks not playing them in the Pac 12 title game might sour their hopes at going to the title game. Not many ranked opponents left for Oregon to beat.
Can ND run the tables? Can they get to the title game? Can they beat that team to beat an SEC team in the title game? Lots of football left.
October 28th, 2012 at 9:13 AM ^
I think USC losing hurts ND much more then Oregon. Say USC doesn't get to the Pac 12 title game its like UCLA would be the team replacing them. UCLA plays 3 of their last 4 at home with their only road game against WSU. They would likely be ranked top 20 by then at least. USC loses to other Pac 12 teams will hurt ND in the computers while they shouldn't hurt Oregon much if at all. The Ducks are probably very big Arizona fans at the moment. 49-0 over a possibly ranked team at the end of the year would look pretty good to alot of pollsters.
October 28th, 2012 at 1:52 PM ^
their SOS is # 62, three times as easy as UM.
October 28th, 2012 at 5:12 PM ^
You're insane if you think Gholson is better than Krenzel.
October 28th, 2012 at 9:19 AM ^
I have no love for OSU or ND, but you can't say those teams were/are frauds.
We as fans tend to under value defense. But a disruptive defense is the sign of a quality team. It's also more reliable than a streaky offense after a 30+ day layoff prior to the NC game.
Folks, learn to love 2002 OSU and 2012 ND, because them is us. That is our future. We are going to win on D, Hoke has made that clear in word and deed.
Hopefully we can get the offense up to a level beyond DeBord/Lloyd days, since you can't consistently win scoring 17 points anymore, but we are not going to be Oregon or Texas Tech or Boise.
Our aspirational goal is somewhere toward the Alabama end of the offensive spectrum. We can recruit and coach well enough on D to approximate that. We'll see about the O in the next couple of years.
October 28th, 2012 at 9:33 AM ^
Their defense is elite despite the fact that their secondary isn't great but they found ways to work around it. Their front 7 is just as good as anybody. They don't make mistakes and tackle well.
Normally, ND who started out fast in the past are incredibly lucky, but they aren't. I think forced TO is just slightly above average. They turn the ball over 9 times which is about a little more than once a game.
Last year, they were unlucky with regards to turnover margins. They were a 9-4 team (shoudl be 11-1 if TO margin is even) that basically is plauged by turnovers, but the trend has reversed. The result for this year? A undefeated ND.
October 28th, 2012 at 9:41 AM ^
I know ND gets a lot of brand-points to put them in over either of them, but ND has played almost every game very close and KSU and Oregon have been blowing out pretty much everyone,
It would be a travesty for ND to get in ahead of either of them the way they are playing right now. I'd say Oregon would get the nod by virtue of the extra game they will play against a theortically quality opponent in the PAC-12 title game. If they should fall though, I still have to believe K-State's resume is good enough to overcome the bias if they win out.
October 28th, 2012 at 2:12 PM ^
Does Div1AA teams count? Because KSU and Oregon have played 2 of them each. Frankly in the new world if you schedule a 1AA you should be excluded from the playoff.
October 28th, 2012 at 9:48 AM ^
As long as someone takes down the SEC I'm okay with it. Would be nice to see a northern team win it all. We've already lost to them, so whatever.
October 28th, 2012 at 11:59 AM ^
The SEC being taken down a notch would be fun to watch. I don't care if it is Oregon, KState or ND. Alabama looks like it is playing a cut above the rest of the SEC right now. They haven't given up more than 14 all season and haven't scored fewer than 33.
October 28th, 2012 at 10:43 AM ^
As TBone1966 up there pointed out, ND's SOS to this point is better than Kansas State's and Oregon's. We can all say "Notre Dame's resume isn't as good as..." till we're maize and blue in the face, but that doesn't make it true. In fact, unless I'm missing someone, of the teams who remain undefeated, Sagarin has Notre Dame's strength of schedule as the most difficult. Read that again: Of the undefeated teams that everyone is hyping, Notre Dame has played AND BEATEN collectively better competition than any of the others.
And while Alabama, Oregon, and Kansas State have looked better from start to finish, Notre Dame has improved throughout the season. The Notre Dame team that beat Oklahoma in Norman as double-digit underdogs is not the same team that struggled against Purdue and needed a comedy of errors against us to win at home.
While I still think that Notre Dame loses a season-opening, neutral-site game to Alabama in much the same fashion as we did (and probably worse)...I think ND has closed the gap considerably through their development this season and would fare much better at this point though not necessarily enough to win. Credit where it's due, though, whether we like it or not.
October 28th, 2012 at 2:02 PM ^
ND would not beat Alabama right now, even with the offense they displayed last night.
October 28th, 2012 at 2:14 PM ^
I don't think ND has beaten collectively better competition then Kansas St. Their best win other than OK is Stanford. Kansas St. has beaten Tex Tech, W.Virginia, Iowa St. , 2 of which were on the road. ND has played a stronger schedule then Oregon so far, but three of there weakest opponets are yet to come. BC is going to put a dent in that.
October 28th, 2012 at 10:47 AM ^
October 28th, 2012 at 10:50 AM ^
I disagree with the comparison. You say that the 2002 Buckeyes "lucked" into the MNC game. I would argue that, while you're correct that OSU was never dominant offensively, they didn't need to be. 2002 was the high water mark for Tresselball, where the offensive strategy wasn't based on scoring points, it was based on setting up good field position for the defense and avoiding turnovers. They executed that strategy well.
October 28th, 2012 at 1:14 PM ^
Tell me you weren't pissing your pants on the 4th down at Purdue.
That's a coin-flip situation. You could have just as easily missed it. There was definitely some luck involved, just like us last year.
October 28th, 2012 at 1:40 PM ^
Are you talking about Holy Buckeye, or the last play in OT this year? If you're talking Holy Buckeye, no, I wasn't worried. Worst case scenario, I figured Krenzel could get the first on the ground - dude was surprisingly mobile - and Nuge would send it into OT. There was a moment of terror when he threw it, but that's par for the course with me and OSU quarterbacks. If you're talking about the OT this year, yeah, I was scared.
October 28th, 2012 at 10:54 AM ^
Do we really need someone to bull crap up their own hypothetical scenarios and post them to justify that "ND isn't any good"? They're undefeated. To quote this board's mentality, you sound so "little brotherish" coming out with this.
October 28th, 2012 at 5:13 PM ^
Agreed. I don't really see any reason for people to still doubt ND as a chamionship contender. If they win out, they deserve to be in the national title game over almost anyone (cept bama) because of their schedule.
October 28th, 2012 at 11:06 AM ^
"one of those magical years where every call, turnover, break, big play, and general karma seems to be going in their favor"
Sooo...us last season?
October 28th, 2012 at 1:16 PM ^
Yes. Most of us admitted it then, and we'll admit it now.
How many times have you heard the statement that Michigan could be a better team in 2012 than 2011, but they'll have a worse record in 2012 than 2011?
October 28th, 2012 at 11:34 AM ^
For purely informational purposes, if Notre Dame were in the Big Ten this season, as of today,, they would be:
- 5th in rushing offense, and 2nd in rushing defense
- 7th in passing offense, and 5th in passing defense
- 6th in total offense, 3rd in total defense
- 8th in scoring offense (by average points), but 1st in scoring defense
In 2002, at season's end, Ohio State was:
- 10th in passing offense and defense
- 5th in rushing offense, but 1st in rushing defense
- 4th in scoring offense, but 1st in scoring defense
- 4th in total offense, but 2nd in total defense
From a statistical standpoint, the 2002 Buckeyes might have the edge for being the scarier team on defense, but I guess that if the basis of the comparison is that these teams are having "magical" years, then I don't understand where the OP wants to go with that. For example, 2002 set up the Buckeyes for quite a bit of sustained success last decade, so other than the fact that they did not go undefeated again under Tressel, I believe, I don't think it can be implied that this was a totally isolated incident unless it is just about the record. Further, there isn't enough time under Kelly at ND to make a good comparison, in my opinion, at least not if we're talking about deeper stats than wins and losses.
October 28th, 2012 at 11:26 AM ^
This thread disgusts me. Regardless of the stats, it does FEEL very similar.
October 28th, 2012 at 12:30 PM ^
1. OSU 2002 was much better team than ND 2012.
2. ND will be exposed. Unfortunately, they will be served up to a SEC team, who will feast on their livers, reaffirming to everyone that it's all about the SEC. Everyone else is just cannon fodder.
I will enjoy #2, but not the SEC gloating.
October 28th, 2012 at 5:10 PM ^
I was actually kind of hoping the national title game with be a bama-ND matchup and see Alabama detsroy them. I thought we'd win out and have our only two losses be against teams in the chamionship game and also then ND can experience the same type of game against bama that we did.
October 28th, 2012 at 9:08 PM ^
something that bugs me about all this discussion about SOS as it relates to ND: every game they play is an out of conference game for their opponent. so, aside from hype, the game doesn't mean as much for a team that's not in the bcs top 5 and is trying to win their conference. seems to me that ND not having to win a conference should made to count against them somehow. maybe that's just because i hate ND, or maybe that's why i hate ND.
October 29th, 2012 at 2:27 AM ^
I do agree with the comparison to some extent to the 02 TUOS. It does seem like anytime something could and shoud go wrong for them it doesn't. The old addage is if you have two quarterbacks you have no quarterbacks. Yet somehow they continue to get by with a Freshman most of the time. I dont think Oklahoma was nearly as good as their number 9 ranking was but I honestly did expect Jones to shred ND's secondary.
I do however think that we don't have to worry about them getting to the National Championship game. USC isn't as good as anticipated but when they're on, they can beat most anyone in the Nation. I think Barkley is pissed and he's going to want to take it out on ND especially if they get a beat down from Oregon. I think K-State will run the table for certain, and I can't see anyone beating Alabama. Oregon has the advantage of also playing in a conference title game which will certainly help their sos.
If for some freak reason the Irish did make it there I would want it to be against Alabama so that when they lost by 40 pts I can feel a little bit better about everything in the world. I hate Brian Kelly and I still don't think ND is a top 10 team. Something about them smells funny, but they just keep winning.
Someone please put their fan base back in check. Everyone is salivating over them and it's making me sick.
October 29th, 2012 at 7:55 AM ^
So at 8-0 and with a schedule that everyone said would destroy us at the start of the year, ND is NOT a top10 team.... Outside of Alabama, who should be a top10 team? Oregon and KSU have both played 1AA teams, Oregon 3 and KSU 2. ND has never played a 1AA team. To me both KSU and Oregon smell more than ND. At some point over 8 games when you are the #2 team in scoring defense next to Bama, you have to start giving some props.
October 29th, 2012 at 11:18 AM ^
Looks like they played one this year. If the NCAA doesn't want those to count, they'll make it so those don't count. Till then Notre Dame not playing one and 99 cents won't even get you a cup of coffee.
And seriously, if ND and Oregon were playing, and you had to bet your house on the game, you'd put your money on ND? I think ND and KSU are pretty close, but it's Alabama, then Oregon, then everyone else.
October 29th, 2012 at 1:02 PM ^
Oregon seems to crap the bed when they run into a good defense. Recent BCS history shows this. 26-17 vs OSU in 2010 and 22-19 vs Auburn in 2011.
Would I be delusional fan and say ND would flat out win? No. But don't act like no one has ever shut down that offense.
October 29th, 2012 at 2:49 PM ^
The only similarities I see in these teams are the D-Line and LB. Ohio State had legit game changers at all 4 DL positions, probably 2 of 3 LB positions, CB, and an all-decade player at S. We also had a first rounder at WR, a should-have-been all-time great at RB, and a QB who minimized mistakes and always had a knack for the big play. Our kicker was the best the Big Ten has seen in the last two decades. Also don't forget that we had Dantonio as our DC. Love him or hate him, you have to admit he is one of the best defensive coaches out there. That team didn't win big half of the time, but I'd put that D up against any offense of the past 20 years. The O just had to do enough to win and they certainly were capable of that.