...this mornig and thought it was a great piece.
OT: New Yorker with a detailed story on how they got Bin Laden
Very interesting. I would have started a thread, but can't. I wonder where the reported got all his detail from. He seemed to have a lot of inside info and hard to know what is stories and what is true.
By the time I was done, I thought it would make a great movie. Hopefully some of Seal Team 6 are UM grads and that could be worked in.
Sorry, don't mean to be Dougie Downer or start a 911 debate but it's about time people took their head our of their a$$es and expunge the fairlytale Bin Laden myth. The FBI was asked why 911 wasn't listed as one of Bin Laden's crimes on their 10 most wanted list. Their public relations director said, "because we don't have any evidence of it." Not to mention that the heads of the 911 commission have stated that there was a coverup. So where does that leave us? I'm sick and tired of WAY too many smart people being taken by this monumental lie. STOP, just STOP!! The public will believe anything if they're told enough times, the bigger the lie the better. smh
Thanks for setting us morans straight my man. Keep fighting the good fight.
Not implying anyone is a moran, this is just a sensitive subject for me since I lost a close friend in the towers that day. I haven't stopped researching this subject for the last 10yrs; the same with MOST of the victims direct friends & families. I've written countless letters and spoken directly to dozens of congressmen, military, former intel officials etc. I've been told some shocking things, and discovered a litany facts that destroy the official story. Notice how I haven't spouted off about WHAT I think happened that day, I'm just pointing out the official story is complete BS. There's no justice if we don't have the full truth about what happened that day. My friend, and the rest of the victims deserve to have justice, and so do we! Some idiot just implied that I couldn't be a UM grad because of my opinion. Clearly someone so "educated" couldn't ask the who, what's, when, where, why & how's about 9/11. Since when did being a Michigan Man require the blind acceptance of a consensus view? Class of 01' Econ & History cum laude, bucko! I'm sorry UM could have a student/grad like you that could make such an utterly stupid & arrogant statement. You just trashed the Michigan experience...now go back to watching Jersey Shore. ;)
Sooo you wanna share these shocking things and litany of facts?
This isn't the proper forum. The information is freely available to anyone who has an open mind and not an emotional attachment to the official story. You mentioned Loose Change below, granted it's not the best documentary on the attacks, but there's enough questions in that film to provoke some personal research. It's easy to dismiss alternate ideas into the attacks because admittedly it hurts like hell to believe that our own govt & media could mislead us so greatly.
Definitely right. I was kind of in the mood to have my mind blown.
Particularly the ones in Loose Change.
People don't have a problem accepting that our government and media would mislead us. What they have a problem with is accepting that our government (world famous for its inefficiency and incompetence) pulled off the most brilliantly and flawlessly executed plan in the history of mankind. A plan that when you take into account the level of coordination and the scope of the coverup required, makes D-day and the moon landing look like child's play.
It's not so much that I have unshakeable faith in our government as that I do not have faith that they could pull even 10% of that off,
Your posts always reminded me of someone and now it is clear....You are Michael Moore aren't you? Come on, tell us?
Now you have me and I am sure others, interested on your take of how it all went down. I am buckled up and ready so lay it on me. Sorry to hear about your friend as well.
My feelings exactly.
Why does that banner near the top of mogoblog the one showing Sweet Michigan Gear from Underground Printing have white a camel in it? If you look at the white shirt sideways, and your eyes are little unfocussed, you can see it plan as day. What does it mean?
IDK if you're a Cam'ron fan or not but when you said that (given your tar), "Oh Boy" ft Juelz popped into my dead. Gonna have to listen to it now. Love me some Killa Cam.
Put down the HAM radio, take off the tin foil hat, and join us in the real world. We'd love to have you.
Ummmm....Ok I guess. Took that a little personal I see.
So what? Your debate about Bin Laden and 9/11 (not 911, that's emergency service) are irrelevant to what the Seals did. Unless you believe that Bin Laden wasn't a bad guy and that they shouldn't have done anything to him. It's a heroic tale about the planning and execution by some great military people for our country.
Spot on. Also they discovered that Bin Laden was more involved in planning things for Al Queda than what the intelligence analysts once thought. The article mention him helping plan other attacks on the US.
Now he is going to say that is all a conspiracy too. I bet he and Michael Moore are already collaborating on a film that will show how George W. Bush beat the seals into Pakistan and planted all that evidence.
Please tell me that you didn't attend or graduate from UM. And if you did, please lie and say you didn't. kthx
Gotta love the down voters, I bet they've done a whole ton of research into the events of 911. Thank you for your patriotism, it's wrong to ask tough questions and demand answers. Especially since our system of govt has been fundamentally altered as result of the attacks. I lost one of my best friends on that day, I bet you didn't!! Excuse me for taking the time to do my homework. I'm sure you would've done a bit more research on this if you lost a loved one, and were stonewalled from day one . I'll continue to speak out, don't you think we owe that to the people who died?
So, what exactly is your stance here? That UBL wasn't involved? That 9/11 didn't occur how we thought? What is your view here?
Maybe you should ask him to email an explanation. This really isn't the place.
I really want to read this. I have a feeling it'll just be a recap of Loose Change.
Here is you information on 911 please feal free to study it all you want. Not sure what it has to do with this topic though, other than it was used on Sept 11
And you right I didn't lose one of my best friends on that day, I lost him while he was fighting in Iraq, so please before you assume you have an idea of who may or may not have lost someone close to them on that day or due to that day stop and think it through first.
Sorry for your loss. I didn't assume anyone else hasn't lost someone important , all due to that tragic day. I have another friend who lost a leg in an IED attack in Iraq, so I'm right there with you. We ALL lost something as a result of that day. If we don't know the whole truth how can we gauge the correctness our our govt's response? We can't, therefore it's imperative that we seek the truth. We're all paying for this in some way, we're in this together.
but the idea that you are the one person who has this all figured out and it is the rest of the world that has it wrong is pretty amusing to me. Wait now...you are in agreement with Michael Moore, so you have that going for you. He probably has an extra tin foil hat laying around, you should ask him for it.
Here watch this video
This is not the loose change movie, and the 911 stuff doesn't start till half way through, but the first part of the video is very interesting as well, discussing religious things etc..
The 911 part of the movie really blew my mind and i heard about a lot of stuff i never knew either..
I had family just down the street from WTC when this all happened so that is why i am so interested in it. Some stuff you may not agree with, but there is A LOT of stuff that doesn't add up that it was all an act of Bin Laden and his terrorist crew
Zeitgeist has been proven to use misleading, flat out false, and out of context information to prove its point. Just read the wikipedia page on it. But I guess you can't trust what people say when they disagree with the conspiracy theory right?
I never said i believed everything that was said, just some of it was pretty interesting. Mostly the people being interviewed about the bomb going off in the basmeent a minute before the WTC was hit.
Or the perfect 45 degree cuts on the support beams of the buildings and the interviews with the fire depts that helped clean up the WTC etc.
Although i don't think anyone will ever REALLY know how it all went down. At least we know how corrupt our govt already is. Reading some of the stuff out of the wiki leaks was enough to make me sick to my stomach
I really know how it all went down. You know how? Because I saw it with my fucking eyes. Planes flew into the buildings. Buildings collapsed. Geesh, not rocket science.
/waits for conspiracy theory about how rockey propulsion was used to quicken the fall of towers
I'm sure your termodynamics of materials class could easily explain how Building 7- far away from the towers with two buildings in between them - could magically catch on fire several hours after the collapse of both buildings, and fall perfectly within it's own footprint like we've seen a thousand times for controlled demolitions. Crikey, now that's some wicked jet fuel right there. Oh yeah, it must've been the massive ground shaking that weakened the foundation that resulted in a free fall footprint collapse of the building. That's never happened before in history but you're crazy if you don't believe it happened that day. Coincidentally of course, all 3 buildings were owned by the same person that luckily took out massive insurance policies just before the attacks. It was clearly coinkydink that fema disaster response team setup in nyc the day before the attacks. Good thing they were there to help us, gee. Why don't YOU stick to your "basic laws of physics and chemistry" and common sense before you take shots a people for believing that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a friggin' duck!! The real smoking guns of 9/11 have nothing to do with the collapse/bomb suspicions. THEY want the debate focused there.
There are some inaccuracies in Zeitgeist, especially the religious portion, but that doesn't discount some of the issues raised about 911 and the Federal Reserve. I have some major issues with the technocratic societal solution presented in the film (Venus Project). If only everyone would go to wikipedia for all the answers. Haven't you read about political groups and corporations being caught red handed manipulating wikipedia? It's a guide but by no means a honey hole of truth.
Not gonna get on my soapbox on MGoBlog, this place is about UM sports. Just saying there's a ton MORE to the story, and things aren't as black & white as they've been presented to us. We should all investigate the attacks and develop our OWN view. Isn't that ultimately the patriotic & responsible thing to do?
If people don't have questions regarding ANY event or events after researching the facts and inconsistencies then we truly aren't doing our job as educated Americans. The pavlovian response is to yell "conspiracy theorist" or "tin foil hat". On average, 2/3 of the population, regardless of intelligence, will accept an authority figure(s) response, answer, or commands.
In my mind, there's nothing wrong questioning an event, which has many unanswered questions.
Well said WickedWolv. You're exactly right about 2/3 of the population believing a perceived authority figure regardless of their intelligence. That, combined with the incessant repetition of a story ENSURES the compliance of a population. We can't escape our own human mass psychology. This has been researched HEAVILY by virtually every government throughout history. Power elites know us FAR better than we know ourselves; they've mastered our buttons and aren't hesitant to push them. This isn't backwoods conspiracy stuff, these subjects are thoroughly researched in the behavioral sciences, much of it with govt funding. Anyone can pick up their white papers, they're openly published.
So anyone believes the "official line" is just a mindless drone, huh? What about all the scientific, expert led discussions and explanations about how the planes took them down? Do those not count?
Don't assume that just because someone believes the simple explanation that they are just mindlessly listening to authority.
Sometimes the simple solution is the truth but not always, and almost NEVER for major historical political events. History has proven this over and over. Conversely, to your fair question about the scientific, expert led discussions - what about all the scientists, architects, structural engineers and firefighter expert testimony AGAINST the official line? The oldest firefighting publication in the country wrote a scathing criticism of the govt's conclusions. They said there's absolutely no way the 3 buildings could've collapsed in the manner presented. How about the Assoc of Architects and Engineers for 911 truth? People reference the Popular Science support of the official story as "expert" opinion. Little do most people know that shortly before 911 there was a shakeup of their editorial staff, & none other than the cousin of Michael Chertoff was now the new chief editor. The same Michael Chertoff who blocked FBI agents from taking down some of the actual 19 hijackers when he was a justice department hack. The same Chertoff who then became the head of a new federal agency that's gonna save us from this evil in the future. Twilight Zone, check please! I'm sure none of this matters and it's all coincidence. The "experts" they present are largely connected to the people trying to hide the truth from us. It's how disinfo works, and they've mastered it. Yes sometimes things are simple, just not nearly as much as we'd like to convince ourselves.
You think that just because someone doesn't agree with you that they are obviously wrong and couldn't have researched the subject? Screw you buddy! Maybe....Just maybe we have also researched the subject and come to a different (and highly more likely and plausible) explantaion of the events.
UBL still is on the hook for the Embassy Bombing in '98, the videos alone wishing death upon the US is enough for me to want to put a .308 into him.
...Santa Claus is DEAD?
A fantastic piece...read it yesterday at work, gave me goosebumps. The cojones that the SEALS and any service member for that matter is truly astounding.
Also, props to the author. Incredibly well written, no idea where he got his info from but, as has been said before, reads like a movie.
This topic is no where near OT. Its an awesome story and a great topic in general, just not the right forum.
It definitely seems off-topic to me.
I thought it was clear in sum but, to clarify, I mean to say that the topic is so far off-topic that it is not appropriate for the Board. But I think you already knew that, given the extent of your experience on the Board.
when this first happened that the death of Osama Bin Laden was defintely not too far off topic to post about.
Killing him destroyed my 2011 FBI Most Wanted Bracket, but still a great kill.
Upvote! I can laugh about this too. Hell, if we don't take some time to laugh what the hell is the point of living? We can all agree that we're living in some crazy times :)
He thought he would be bangin' 72 virgins.
Instead, he's being tormented by demons.
And it won't stop.
He's just dead.
Schefter tweeted it yesterday morning with a Must Read thingy...it was a great article detailing what happened leading up to the event.
I read that New Yorker story yesterday and it was very good. The operation was outstanding, with the ultimate result. I am amazed by the deadly efficiency of these soldiers, in the most uncertain and lethal circumstances. I read a story about the sniper teams that isolate on the mountain peaks in Afghanistan for days/weeks, with their families at home proud but tentatively hoping for a safe return. The courage, dedication and sacrifices by these Americans are incredible.
On the other issue, there are significant data, including inarguable facts, and accompanied by human testimony by credible witnesses and hard documentation from a variety of intelligence, credible source, that should make most reasonable people inquisitive about the dark corners of government. The real power brokers that that shun the concepts of transparency and accuracy in its 'disclosures' to the media and citizenry; the military/industry power dynamic. I bet most anyone on this blog that did the research would agree with UMich4Life that the government's official narrative is derelict and refutable in key areas. The manipulative nature of government; countless examples, from the Tuskegee experiments (fairly recent history), to the denial of extraterrestrial interface (Read the Disclosure Project, author S. Greer, M.D.), to the blanketed reneging on forced treaties with the Native Americans, to the government/media connections intended to manipulate the American people by presenting false information. No, the government would never do anything shady that hurt its own people /s. Okay I'm done, sorry if I pissed anyone off. Back to sports...
How do rational people think the government has contact with aliens?
Another dismissive assumption. How about our own astronauts? Surely they're not credible or rational either, I guess.
If you understand just how vast the universe is, and how it is extremely likely that our first radio transmissions have not yet even reached another world that is habitable, much less harbors sentient life, you can pretty much rule out humans having any contact with alien species. It is insane to assume that earth has been visited by alien species unless said alien species can travel faster than the speed of light, which is currently believed to be impossible.
In short, there is no reason to believe any claims by anyone that humans have had any contact whatsoever with alien species.
Wow! That sure shows the true power of a closed mind. Even our own physicists speak of the potential to bend space and possibly travel through stargates (wormholes). Not to mention inter-dimensional, are you so sure the laws of physics are the same there? You have a flat earth mentality on THIS issue. Do you really think we have all the laws of physics figured out? Your no way travel faster than light comment assumes that space travel has to happen in a linear way. In any era in human history most of the common assumptions are later proven incorrect. What, so now that we have "science" the same isn't true? Look what we've done technologically in the last 100 years. From the airplane to the moon in under 50 years. Where will we be in 10,000 years if we don't kill ourselves? You mention the universal infinite possibility, well what about a race that's a million years ahead of us technologically? Open up just a bit, not saying you have to believe everything you hear. You honestly wouldn't even listen to what our astronauts would say about ET? Who says the few can't control the many. It's a piece of cake if a population has such closed mindset as yourself. Jeesh!
There's a difference between close-mindedness and rational thought. Even Stephen Hawking says that it is unlikely that intelligent alien life exists within 100 light years. If our radio waves haven't reached them, why would they come here? The universe is filled with billions of galaxies all containing billions of solar systems, and a very low percentage of that are habitable. It is hard enough to even locate planets, much less tell if they are habitable. If they are habitable, chances are they don't harbor intelligent life anyway. Why would aliens spend the resources to visit earth if they had no evidence life existed here? It doesn't matter if they can travel through wormholes like you mentioned. Sure, it may be possible, but they would have no idea that earth harbored life anyway. The chances of them stumbling upon us are astronomically low (pun intended).
Furthermore, if there has been contact with alien species, why are people in the government the only ones that know about it? Civilians are searching for alien signals all the time, and haven't found any.
You say I'm close-minded, but you offer nothing in the way of proof of your claims that aliens have contacted us and that they are covering it up. I, for one, will base my reasoning on the FACTS that I have, rather than the ignorant and ludicrous notion that aliens are in contact with our government without our knowledge.
My mind is open. Sure, it's POSSIBLE that we've had contact with aliens. I'm fairly certain they aliens exist somewhere in the universe. But until I have seen any convincing argument that we've had contact with them, I will presume that we will not contact any intelligent life forms in our lifetime. Call it a flat-earth mentality, I call it reason. You probably believed all of Fahrenheit 911 too.
Cheap shot on Fahrenheit 911, that documentary was junk! It's fair & smart to have a healthy amount of skepticism but to close off possibility is a huge mistake.
At least you did agree it's POSSIBLE, so credit to you there. There are people outside of government claiming to have had contact with ET. What about the millions of people who have had abduction experiences? I'm not saying they're all true, that would be ridiculous but is everyone full of shit? What about the movie they made (can't remember the name) based on a true story in TX of a man abducted and witnessed by his friends. They went to the police and were called crazy. A week later he shows up naked and shaken beyond belief. They all passed lie detectors. There was the case in the 1880's of a crashed ship and recovered aliens. They gave the alien a Christian burial and placed a headstone there that looked like a saucer shaped UFO. This was reported on the front page of the town's newspaper. The grave still exists but someone has now removed the headstone. NOT saying this is definitive proof of anything, but there are people saying things. We just dismiss them, rightfully or not.
As to evidence (anecdotal) take a look at the legends of every indigenous culture on earth. They all talk about Sky Gods coming to earth in "blazing chariots" and "flying wheels" giving knowledge and civilization to humanity. Maybe they've been here all along, maybe they have something to do with us being here. Are they the missing link that Darwinists can't seem to find? It's a fascinating story when investigated with an open mind. Once again, I'm not saying this is PROOF, but it will make you question things if investigated properly. The Aryan Vedas are another great source of evidence, their texts are literally filled with references to advanced beings and travel to different worlds in spacecraft, and their interaction with ancient humanity.
Look to the world's founding civilization of Sumeria, which shot up out of nowhere at a level far more advanced that one would expect with gradual cultural evolution. It appeared out of nowhere and denigrated thereafter. They spoke of the Annunaki coming from space and setting up civilization and seeding the royal bloodlines. Read of Epic of Gilgamesh. They also knew of all the planets in our solar system and their relative sizes. How could they of known of Pluto before we apparently rediscovered it in the 70's (or so)? They clearly stated they were given the knowledge.
If interested in some evidence read: The 12th Planet by Zacharia Sitchen, & The Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple. Alien Agenda by Jim Marrs is another one. Great reads that at a minimum will make you seriously question things.
Damn, I just wrote a diary. Sorry! I'm checking out of this thread, nice debating these subjects with you folks. Cheers!
What about the millions of people who have had abduction experiences?
LOL. I think you're over on your numbers just a wee bit.
Glad you have a degree is physics, hope that's working out for you. Yeah, I've read Sagan, and? Haven't you at least thought that these high profile establishment scientists might just know something they're not telling us. Maybe they CAN'T tell us everything they know or believe or else their careers will be destroyed by the establishment. For every mainstream genius scientist, there's a genius on the other side of the fence advocating the opposing view. What about Tesla & Reich? The control of information throughout the history of this planet is quite clear. Are we naive enough to think this isn't happening today? Read Carl Sagan's The Dragons of Eden, there's some seriously cryptic info in there for those willing to read between the lines. Sagan knows far more than he openly discusses, that's the cost of being an establishment figurehead. You can't go everywhere the trail of evidence leads to, at least not publicly.
As a business grad, I never had a chance(read: took the time) to study any physics or related sciences while in school, but reading your posts in this thread has been really interesting. I always enjoy learning from people that have an extensive knowledge/background in fields I know very little about.
I know you tend to catch a lot of shit around here sometimes, so I just wanted to give you a pat on the back for this one. Kudos!
Can you list the other conspiracy theories you believe in so we can get a general scope of how far you go into all of this.
Tests on Tuskegee decades ago does not mean the USG is willing to crash planes into buildings for...uh, er, what is the supposed gain? Seriously wrecking our economy? Yeah, that makes sense. The USG is all about doing things to destroy our economy. Sheer brilliance.
.The fact is that those who want to believe in conspiracies are ignorant, paranoid, and maybe a bit mentally ill. The Nazis fed--and many extremist groups still feed--off of the paranoia that creates these "theories".
50 millio died in part because millions believed nonsensical conspiracy theories. The "Stab-in-the-Back" and the infamous anti-Semitic theories that were abundant in Europe was the fuel that propelled the Nazi Party. If you REALLY care about human rights and social justice, you'll stay away from idiotic theories and focus on the verifiable facts.
Yes, our nation's history is filled with government duplicity, malfeasance, and cruelty. But that does mean that what happened in the past is happening today. You have to critically analyze each situation in its own time. To understand why 9-11 happen you have to understand our foreign policy(especially in the Middle East), Islam and Islamic extremism, and the mindset of the USG in terms of "homeland defense" at the time of the attacks.
By all means, question government. Democracy needs that. But do so in a logical, rational manner that is based on a need for knowledge and not a lust for confirmation of your prejudices.
There's a classic case of doublethink. You mention the Nazi's, but how many Germans were sounding the alarms to the citizenry about the Nazi takeover and plans for world domination? These people must've been, "ignorant, paranoid, and maybe a bit mentally ill." The same goes with the Russians during the communist conspiracy too. The masses of the German & Russian people shared your dismissive view. How did that turn out for them and the rest of us?
Found it interesting that the majority of the team were carrying H&K MP7s, while the sole holdout carried an M4-style (Mk18 MOD 0?) and ended up making the kill shot. This, in contrast to most reports saying they all carried HK416s.
There were lots of conflicting reports when it came down to the details like the equipment they used.
It is confirmed that we killed him in case anyone in this thread thinks that was created by our government.
Anyone know where I can find a good Michigan football blog?
not here that's for sure. We reserve our space for a healthy discussion on space aliens and the tin foil hat club's contention that 9/11 was a government plot.
Nutjobs are always welcome here!
@Sal-quattro....I"m not irrational, so please rethink that. I don't prefer the word 'conspiracy' because it is so misused. I have not asserted anything about 911 other than the the government's narrative is corrupt. On extraterrestrials, we have at least two NASA astronauts who have testified as to the existence of intelligent life in craft observed during space missions. I suppose those individuals are irrational as well. Trained ad educated government military specialists and observers after all, trusted to operate with precision some of the most difficult tasks asked of them (similar to the heroes in the New Yorker article). Former Deputy Director of FAA, Former head of the British Defense Ministry, the Vatican's own theologian, US Generals with stars, and countless others who have put their testimony in written and videotaped formats might take exception to 'irrational' accusations. I would not have responded again if not referred to as 'irrational,' which is strikingly similar to the cliched response of the narrow minded narcissist who is confronted with something he doesn't like to hear. For you to refer to my alleged predjudices is so patently absurd that it barely warrants comment.
And I was not talking about aliens. I do believe that there is other life in the universe.
What I do object to is people claiming something is "corrupt" without corroborating evidence to support that assertion. Discrepancies do not equate corruption.
I can just as easily claim that you are corrupt. That you are part of a conspiracy to sow confusion among Americans. History tells us that such tactics have been used in the past. So why not now?
I hate conspiracies because they have caused a great deal of misery. Stalin murdered countless beings because of his obsession with conspiracies. The Nazis were fueled by a belief in certain conspiracies. My antipathy towards conspiracy theories are as a result intense.
There is a real danger in slapping together disparate facts into a narrative without incontrovertible evidence to support the thesis. A key question any person aspiring to issue a "theory" is whether said theory could hold up in a court of law or rigorous scientific experiment.
A conspiracy is merely two or more people plotting to carry out an illegal act/action. The term "conspiracy theory" is a perversion of the true meaning (curious to know when this term was coined and by whom). Nonetheless, governments have versions of conspiracies while individuals have their own versions. It's simply a matter of what verison makes sense. Do I think governments are totally forthcoming with information? Absolutely not! Do I think individuals have all the answers after examining an "event"? Nope.
An illegal action by individuals, groups, etc. is nothing out of the ordinary. Are there conspiracy theories, which are completely out of whack? Absolutely. Are there conspiracy theories, which may have credence? Absolutely.
Examining history it would be foolish to conclude there are no "conspiracies". Powerful people have a tendency to manipulate the masses (unfortunate result of human nature e.g., sacrifice your first born so it will rain). This begs the question: Will there EVER be enough evidence to prove one side or another? Probably not.
You mentioned the Germans and Russians spreading to what accounts as falsehoods. Don't you think your government is spreading falsehoods, which you might interpret as the truth?
Don't be so quick to dismiss rationale conversation you deem a "conspiracy". There's a lot of information I've read the last few years--not read by most of the populace--confirming there's more than meets the eye. Tragedy and Hope by Carroll Quigley and/or The Anglo-American Establishment by Carroll Quigley is a good start (Bill Clinton's mentor). I was quite amused when in the preface he tells you flat out this is what I know and this is how I procured this information. Good stuff.
For example, Watergate. There are many of those type of conspiracies. What I am talking about is the 9-11/Pearl Harbor nonsense. Countries get attacked and it rarely involves treacherous conduct by the leaders of the attacked nation.
I think Americans have taken the Walls of Water defense for granted for so long that they have a hard time grasping the idea that someone from another continent can come over here and attck us. We are European, Asian, African, or Middle Eastern. We--meaning non-Native Americans--have not experienced an invasion in 200 years and that one involved armies of regiment and brigade size.
Agree with most everything you said, but your math was off just a little. The War Of 1812 well it’s title kind of give’s it away, close but not over 200 years ago. I won’t even get into the Native American Wars or our Civil War. In1845 we had that little thing with Mexico. We had that whole Pancho Villa flare up with the battle of Columbus in 1916. Then Pearle Harbor that’s kind of the date that will live in infamy, so we have had a few bad things happen on US soil in the last 200 years. Also I don’t recall most Americans feeling as if the water kept us safe from the Soviet Union's ICBMs.
On extraterrestrials, we have at least two NASA astronauts who have testified as to the existence of intelligent life in craft observed during space missions. I suppose those individuals are irrational as well.
CanI see these statements? What were the conditions of these observations? What was observed? Did little green men give a peace sign or did they see a flash of light? Were the astronauts in position to gain noteriety from false statements (the answer is assuredly "yes"). Do the astronauts have proof? Why is there no independent proof? It's not like there are not thousands of public astronomers with their lenses fixed on the stars and our spacecrafts.
that if those extraterrestrials had come to earth and all they saw were you, Umichfan4life and Chet....they would leave under the assumption that no intellegent life existed on this planet...j/k.
Seriously, I disagree with what you are saying but both you and Umich4life seem like intellegent people (not chet though...he is just creepy). I find it hard to believe that intellegent people could get so caught up in these conspiracy theories...
I knew this thread had the potential to gets nuts, I just didn't think it would get bucknuts.
I do not remember which government official said this but years ago during one of the countless hearings on UFO's an Air Force General said something to the effect of:
"If aliens are indeed a higher life form and more intellegent and advanced than us why do they chose to usually reveal themselves to drunken people on country roads at 3:00am in the morning?"
Tin foil hat brigade....commence firing!
....and this is why we can't have nice things (or threads that touch on politics).
very long clip of real and credible high ranking officials giving real testimony before the National Press Club.
When it comes to Aliens I take a completely neutral approach.
1. Could there be ETs? Well, billions of planets in a galaxy, billions of galaxies? Sure.
2. Government have them locked up in Area 51? Maybe. Some people say yes, some say no (purported government officials). Why would they lie? Do they want attention? Do they want to publish a book to make money? Who the hell knows!?
3. I did find it quite odd a former high ranking member of the Canadian government said there's definitely ETs.
I'm torn. I'd be an idiot to dismiss either claim especially by high ranking officials (what's motivating them to lie or truly disclose the truth?).
As of now, there's no clear evidence to say ETs are real. However, the possibility definitely exists. Again, if you're a math whiz you'd be foolish to completely rule out the possibility.
If you're a math whiz you know that the possibility is so miniscule that it may as well be zero.
Yes there are billions of stars. But we can't travel at the speed of light. It is not possible. There shear amount of time it would take ETs to reach Earth means that it is unlikely there's ever been any ET contact with Earth.
If they were close enough, we'd know. If they're too far away, we cannot reach them and it's unlikely they can reach us (they can't travel at the speed of light either...).
The math says it's almost impossible unless they are close.
This thread makes me hate humanity.
I agree, I tend to read and follow things that don't drive me crazy. People can call me a mindless drone, but I tend not to get too caught up in these conspiracy theories.
Many would say I'm the crazy one because I believe in a God.
I have had family members that have fought in every war since world war 1. I am a big supporter in the servicemen of this country, but that doesn't mean I am supportive of the warmongers in Washington. My grandfather always told me to question what was presented to me, especially when it comes from Washington. He fought in World war 2, and he would tell me stories of the propaganda machines in Nazi Germany and the same propaganda here in the states. Disinformation has been used for many years, on all sides of all arguments, so I always try to discern what is true and what is false.
With that being said, I have a hard time buying the BS rhetoric from our elected "representatives." I don't know what happenned on 9/11, I just find way too many of the so called facts to be completely unbelievable. I find it difficult to buy the official story, the passports of the terrorist that was found in Shanksville, WTC7, the 911 commission report, NIST report, Bush and Cheney having to testify together, and the list goes on. Then you look at our history and you see that the Vietnam war was escalated by the Gulf of Tonkin incident, which has been recently declassified as being a lie. The WMD lie got us into Iraq. Pat Tilman, Jessica Lynch stories were both ficticious accounts of the real story, glorifying what really happenned to them. Even the financial crisis of 2008 was the result of a giant Ponzi scheme created and orchestrated by Wall St. and Washington. There is a great movie on the subject called "Inside Job" that lays the whole story out.
The Bin Laden piece was very well done, but there are questions regarding that whole story that make me think. Why did the White House change their story 16 times in one week of what really happenned. Why did the biggest piece of intelligence on Al-queda get shot in the head and dumped to sea instead of being interrogated for everything he knew. I don't know what happenned, or claim to have any answers. I just know that I have a ton of questions and I will probably never get the answers.
It is easy to label people as conspiracy theorists and nutjobs and dismiss everthing they have say. I think Westsider and umich4life have some very thought provoking points, and the beauty of living in a great country like ours, is that we can have these discussions openly and not get thrown in jail. My relatives who have served and our still serving in Afghanistan and Iraq, all question what is going on, does that make them any less patriotic? If anything I think it makes them more Patriotic.
I don't need that many words, I only need two.
the official story of 9/11, this recount of the "UBL raid" is basically a lie...
I read your link this morning and now Yahoo is on the story as well.
I enjoyed it, thanks for posting.