OT - New NCAA basketball proposal for early draft entrees
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12459854/proposal-nba-ncaa-nabc-move-draft-withdrawal-date
Some of the key parts:
• Would move the date college players can withdraw from the NBA draft back about five weeks -- from late April to late May.
• Underclassmen would participate in an invitation-only combine in mid-May that would allow NBA teams to evaluate them and offer feedback on their draft prospects. Combine would include seniors, underclassmen and international players (currently, if an underclassman submits official paperwork to declare for draft, he forfeits his eligibility and cannot return to school).
• Invitation-only combine would replace the traditional Chicago draft camp.
• If a player submits draft paperwork and is not invited to the NBA combine, the recommendation is to withdraw from the draft and return to school.
• Could be voted on by the NCAA in January and take effect in time for the 2016 draft.
• It's the work of the NBA, the NCAA and the National Association of Basketball Coaches.
It's not a change to the one and done rule like many have called for but I think it's definitely a step in the right direction.
If a player can really determine if the are going in the 1st Round or they should come back to school.
At the rate that Michigan sends players to the NBA now, I wouldn't classify this as OT.
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I know what you are saying and agree with it, but the baseball rule also includes the 21st birthday as a time you can leave for the pros.
would have hurt a player like burke or stauskas a lot...not super high recruits, not superstar first years, but break out second years. no reason to make them stay another year in college when their draft prospects couldn't possibly get higher.
. . . is that the NBA would have to make the rule and they have absolutely no reason to do so.
To me this is also an interesting idea, for all of college sports.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/12449572/crowdfunding-site…
I think one of the main reasons athletes leave early is the potential of a career ending injury (and having to find a real job). This could eliminte that fear, and cause them to hang around longer in college sports.
I think players should be allowed to take any money they can get. I also think they should not be ineligible until they actually make an NBA team or sign a guaranteed contract. The NCAA wouldn't have to negotiate with the NBA to make that happen. But they would have to set aside their greed, arrogance and some long-held beliefs about the economics of college sports.
To me that's a slippery slope. Stephen Ross would single handedly get us every 5* recruit, as he has already proven he will give the athletic department hundreds of millions of dollars. (Wait... Maybe that's not such a bad idea) They are still STUDENT-athletes, and shouldn't be making decsions on which college to go to based on how much they are getting paid.
YES x1000.
There are almost no downsides. The NBA gets more seasoned players (as opposed to the lottery tickets that a 2nd round talent currently represents), the NCAA gets their stars for another year or so, and the player can make a more informed decision. Even the NBAPA has no reason to oppose this, since it only adds to player freedom.
I seriously don't see how anybody could be against this idea.
Fewer bad decisions that benefit no one (except for the shady agents that see borderline players as no-downside options on a 10% contract commission).
Underclassmen would participate in an invitation-only combine in mid-May that would allow NBA teams to evaluate them and offer feedback on their draft prospects.
I've always wondered how that works. If I'm a scout at a combine, and see a kid as a diamond-in-the-rough, am I really going to tell the player (and hence the other teams) that he's a potental lottery pick? It seems there's a possibility of sandbagging that would result in the player getting bad information.
Also, the invitation only element seems like it could be tricky. A good tweak might be to let players apply anonymously, and let a panel determine if the player is worthy of an invitation.
I see where you are going with that, but if you well regarded enough to get one of ~80 or so spots at this combine, would you really consider jumping in the draft?
It sounds like a workable solution. There is no reason for the current withdrawal date and this give kids a much better way of getting feedback so they can make a smart, rational decision and hopefully avoid players declaring early and not getting drafted
I'm not against the proposal, since it seems an improvement over what the players have today. And I agree that more time to decide is better for the student athletes.
I'm just more interested in whether scouts would truly be candid in their assessments, when their job is to identify talent for the use of their respective franchises. Seems to me that scouts may be reluctant to tip their hand.
missing your point. If the scouts don't give positive feedback, then the player might decide not to stay in the draft. So if you like a guy and think he is good enough, then you would want to let him know so that he stays in the draft. Besides, wouldn't other scouts be telling him the same thing anyway.
Look at it this way. NFL and NBA scouts are in the "have the best information possible, and keep it safe for your franchise" business. That information is the scout's lifeblood, and the franchise employing them pays a good bit of coin for that info.
So why do we think NBA scouts would be fully forthright with college prospects when that information is sure to get out prior to the draft?
In the NBA, after a combine, I don't think you're going to see many examples of teams having a guy as a potentially lottery pick that nobody else views as higher than 2nd round. There is lots of scouting on each and every player the NBA could consider, at least U.S. based players, and basketball skill is less dependent on system than football. Your NBA draft boards are going to look fairly similar across the leage.
I do understand what you're saying, but I think it's a minor concern. And it isn't exactly clear who will be informing the underclassmen of their prospects. It could very well be that the league asks for evaluations on all underclassmen prospects from every team and puts together a package for the underclassmen to consider. The individual team's private thoughts would then be protected.
I can think of several reasons not to be worried about this.
1) NBA teams don't really have room to find diamonds in the rough, because they only get two draft picks.
2) The more good prospects that enter the draft, the more choices a team will have. A team outside the lottery will be OK with telling a prospect he's a lottery pick, because it just helps increase the talent to choose from.
3) Teams aren't going to zero in on a particular player that early.
4) If they sandbag too hard, the guy will stay out of the draft entirely.
problem solved.
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I think you missed the joke.
I like this and this is sort of the NCAA implementing a version of things the NBA has seemed to hint at wanting since Silver took over. There was some discussion last summer about changing the CBA to allow for early entry, but the first year out would have to be in the D-league or Europe or elsewhere, as well as changing the withdrawal timeline and so forth. Of course, from the NBA end, it requires a lot more than it would for the NCAA to make similar changes, but I am glad to see that both organizations are in this one.
Anyone else worried about the fact that NBA personnel will be the ones giving players advice on staying or leaving?
Maybe I have too little faith in human decency, but it seems like there could be a conflict of interest here. Meaning, NBA execs want OPTIONS, and would be more inclined to, say, give someone a a late first round grade so that they have that avenue open to them should things fall apart, when in actuality the chances are that said player will be a second round pick.
I would like to see independent basketball people give these kids advice. Not agents, not NBA execs/representatives. People truly not invested in the process, other than helping these kids make the right decisions.
I see your point.
Surely, the opinion of scouts etc. matters, but requiring an independent opinion in addition would be a great idea too.
I am certain there are people out there who can do a pretty darn good job of predicting draft stock... I am no expert here and do not follow it closely but it seems like there are a number of media types who do a good job in their predictions.
it's all tricky here because part of the ranking has to consider who else would be in the draft, right? so, advice would be "if the best 60 players stay eligible for the draft, you're an early second rounder at best, but if some of those late first rounders go back to school, you're a late first rounder" etc.
from schools' perspective, how does this timing work? Last year for example, I don't remember what the timing was for bringing in MAAR and Dawkins - if holding a possible place open for GRIII, do we miss out on one of those guys?
I still like the hockey model even better. Every 18 year old is eligible for the draft, and can go to college anyway and come out when they're ready.
I love to see the changes but its going way to slow. i'd like to see them adopt something like football. Where you have to be out of high school for three years before you can declare.
Used to be a player could declare for the draft but could withdraw right up to the point of the draft and retain eligibility as long as they hadn't hired an agent. I believe John Wallace did this.
I still prefer the baseball model but they don't use the NCAA as their minor league.
Hey, how about economic reality as an alternative?
Here's how it would go. NBA pays for its own minor league / farm system. Kids who really wanna prepare to be pros can go there and not have to go to class (like now, when they don't go to class but pretend they do). Kids who actually wanna go to college can, you know, go to college. And some college kids who end up being NBA-types can still go pro, just maybe after 3 mandatory years of college.
You say that's totally ridiculous? Well, baseball just called and they are all like, "woo hoo, over here." I think hockey and soccer might be calling you, too.
NBA is getting a totally free ride, using NCAA as their unpaid and free farm system. NCAA doesn't mind, they are making billions. THe kids aren't getting jack -- the NBA-level ones who go early don't even get an actual degree, unless they pay to go back years later -- and of course have to risk injury to do it.
And the NCAA tournament actually might have lots of teams w/ juniors and seniors, and pro teams like this year's Kentucky, or the UNC team that beat Illinois a few years ago, won't ever happen.
Referencing the UNC team that beat Illinois "a few years ago" was actually a decade ago. Pretty crazy to think about. It doesn't seem that long ago to me at all.
The D-League exists already. You can go straight from high school to it if you want. Players generally choose to go to college instead.
Right. I bet you can totally convince the NBA owners to spend billions on a minor league system that doesn't earn anywhere near what it costs to build, because reasons.
Besides, have you heard of the D-League? Which accepts players right out of high school?
For the vast majority, though, it unfortunately wouldn't work out. So for all these kids that ultimately aren't able to make a career out of basketball, they're much, much better coming to grips with that reality playing college ball instead. At least getting an education and diploma will give them other options.
...Not so much the case for the ones that earned $30k salaries until getting cut after a few years in the minors.
In a sense, this is how it was in the 1990s and early 2000s - players then had until just before the draft to withdraw. Good move.
Makes a good bit of sense. Will provide a bit more transparency to kids while also shielding the NBA a bit from having to take bigger risks on underclassmen.
Surprised that the same organization that incompetently handled decades of basketball rules would have come up with a coherent plan to improve the collegiate experience, but hell, blind squirrels and nuts all around for the NCAA.
ugh
Just make it a requirement that players have to graduate. That goes for football, too.
This is one of the weirdest comments I have ever seen on mgoblog. +1
But again, keep it simple.
A player should always be allowed to return to school unless he A. hires an agent B. accepts gifts or C. gets drafted.
I see nothing wrong with a player entering the draft and going to (out of high school) or returning to college if he hasn't had contact with an agent, accepted anything that breaks NCAA rules or most importantly...gotten drafted.