OT: Netflix "Making a Murderer"
Had a chance to binge "Making a Murderer" this week, and can't stop thinking about the outcome of this incredible true-life documentary. I heard about the Steven Avery case when I was still living in Chicago, but had no idea of the controversy -- and outright corruption in the Wisconsin Department of Justice and the Manitowoc County Sherriff's department. Just an absolutely incredible, gut-wrenching story. If you haven't seen it yet, you're missing a difficult yet thought provoking 10-part series.
I'm wondering if any MGoLawyers who have seen the series are able to comment on the proceedings, and whether this could be a thread for discussion.
December 28th, 2015 at 8:15 PM ^
I think this is unfortunately indicative of our entire legal system. If you don't have money, you are discarded. I truly feel the worst about the poor retarded nephew that got railroaded by corrupt state appointed councel.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:12 PM ^
In my opinion (as a lawyer), it's more indicative of the value that society as a whole places on the concept of justice. It's easy to blame the system, but it takes a more critical (and intellectually honest) evaluation to assess that the system is reflective of the society that gives it sanction. If society truly wanted to protect the rights of the accused (as opposed to just assigning blame to someone), in all instances, they'd demand the budget to support it. Instead, they don't, so the current state of the system is what we get.
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December 28th, 2015 at 10:26 PM ^
So blame the people for cops, lawyers, and politicians being corrupt? Ok.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:41 PM ^
well we're a democracy so yeah it's our responsibility as citizens to stop electing in corrupt people
December 29th, 2015 at 6:33 AM ^
Actually we are a republic, just a democratic one. :P
December 29th, 2015 at 10:17 AM ^
No, we're a Constitutional Republic. Democracy is not mentioned a single time in the Constitution and the Founders mostly feared it. We were modeled more after Rome than Athens, and like Rome, our Republican system has become a corrupt oligarchy.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:49 PM ^
If you do like this show then check out The Jinx on HBO
December 29th, 2015 at 11:32 AM ^
steven had the settlement funds to fight and fought back with two lawyers and experts to counter all the state's experts. poor people can't do that. but yes the nephew is a good example of how bad it is if you ar poor and can't fight back - they had already convicted someone else and he still couldn't win.
December 29th, 2015 at 11:32 AM ^
steven had the settlement funds to fight and fought back with two lawyers and experts to counter all the state's experts. poor people can't do that. but yes the nephew is a good example of how bad it is if you ar poor and can't fight back - they had already convicted someone else and he still couldn't win.
December 28th, 2015 at 8:18 PM ^
Wow...just finished it an hour ago and can't take my mind off of it. Absolutely a must see, albeit very frustrating to watch at the same time.
December 28th, 2015 at 8:18 PM ^
I would like to recommend this book...http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805087265?keywords=hitler's%20beneficiaries&qid=1451351879&ref_=sr_1_1&s=books&sr=1-1
December 28th, 2015 at 8:20 PM ^
Dude. Seriously?
December 28th, 2015 at 8:22 PM ^
It's still the season. Why are you posting about a Netflix documentary of a subject that pertains not at all to sports?
December 28th, 2015 at 8:43 PM ^
Lighten up Francis.
December 28th, 2015 at 8:53 PM ^
Good job, Frankie.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:07 PM ^
How does someone get 70 points within 3 hours of joining and only a dozen posts?
Strange.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:13 PM ^
The people have spoken
December 28th, 2015 at 9:34 PM ^
You don't have the up votes.
Did you change your name?
December 28th, 2015 at 9:45 PM ^
No sir, I didn't. And I don't have enough points to see upvotes so I don't know.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:50 PM ^
where a new member races to 100 points in one day. The next day they start a thread that is just flame bait, pile on with hateful comments, get negged below zero, then rinse and repeat.
I hope that's not you. Cheers.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:53 PM ^
I've posted here for approximately five years.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:57 PM ^
Your info shows that you joined today.
/whatevs
December 28th, 2015 at 10:27 PM ^
I think you have your answer.
December 29th, 2015 at 9:06 AM ^
He's gone, his posts are gone, and now I look silly talking to myself.
December 29th, 2015 at 11:08 AM ^
But by talking to yourself you are guaranteed intellectual responses...at least that's what I tell myself.
December 28th, 2015 at 11:53 PM ^
The people are speaking.
To be more specific, we're letting our downvotes to your posts do the speaking.
December 28th, 2015 at 8:24 PM ^
People in war plunder the people they are warring against.......film along with other blinding obvious factoids about the entirety of human history at 11.
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December 28th, 2015 at 8:26 PM ^
It's about how the Nazis used their plunder to guarantee the compliance of the Germans in World War II. It's a fascinating read that says something about the relationship between the government and the people.
December 28th, 2015 at 8:36 PM ^
to keep the oppressed German people happy. Sounds like a wonderful story; how did it end?
December 28th, 2015 at 8:40 PM ^
Germany blew up and everyone lived happily ever after.
December 28th, 2015 at 8:42 PM ^
Or is it about the liberal monster hiding under your bed trying to give you affordable health care? Because that book has a pretty loaded title.
The main beneficiaries of any wealth redistribution during Hitler's reign had last names like Krup and Daimler.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:01 PM ^
But as the book details the Nazis taxed the wealthy at much higher rates. The German citizen paid much less to support the German war effort than either the British or American. The average German citizen was keeping more of their own money during the war than they were before.
The Nazis were a lower middle class party that only much later received corporate support. Their economy policies were decidely leftist. Planned economy, welfare state, a tax policy that benefitted the lower classes...all of this is fact. Hitler and Goebbels both were stridently anti-capitalist but were pragmatic enough to realize that in the short term at least, it was to their benefit to use corporations to build the army they needed to achieve lebensraum.
The book was written in 2005 by a German. It has nothing to do with affordable health care.
The Nazis are so frightening because they were willing to do whatever they needed to do to achieve their ends. There actually was socialism in National Socialism.
December 28th, 2015 at 9:10 PM ^
Was incidental. The regime was authoritarian first and foremost, and used any and all means at their disposal to stay in power. Huge government contracts for the industrialists, social benefits for the lower classes, and political power for those willing to use violence in support of the regime.
Nevermind that some of the first people sent to concentration camps were German communists.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:22 PM ^
The communists were enemies of Fascism because they were similar in many ways and appealed to the same people, not because they were so different. Taking out their competitors first made sense for the Nazis.
The huge government contracts for industrialists that you mentioned and benefits for the lower classes confirms Salvatore Quattro's point that the Nazis would do almost anything to achieve their ends.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:25 PM ^
As I fully agree with it. But the Nazi regime has little in common with modern social democracies.
Also, socialism isn't evil.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:56 PM ^
but proven to be ineffective
December 29th, 2015 at 8:37 AM ^
Taking a person's property against her will is inherently evil. Why is it ok if a government does it? Just because the other 99,999 people in the city voted for it to be ok?
/closes thread, this shouldn't even be on this blog
December 29th, 2015 at 8:52 AM ^
about paying your union dues? Civilization costs money. Taxes pay for it.
December 29th, 2015 at 11:36 AM ^
ouch.
December 28th, 2015 at 11:02 PM ^
I think it depends on which conception of socialism we're talking about. It's one of those words, like Fascism, which has lost meaning because people throw it around to describe whatever it is they don't like. But I would say, for example, Stalinist authoritarian communism is evil. Now of course some would say that wasn't socialism, but that's a discussion for another time/forum.
December 29th, 2015 at 9:46 AM ^
is hard to recognize the U.S. as anything but socialist in actuality. The federal government and the "top 1%" are so intrinsically related through private ownership by government officials and special interest as to be indistinguishable. However, nobody will say it because the word "socialist" is taboo. This country is essentially socialist with very limited thought going into how the government spends its money. So, effectively it is "bad" socialism. (Exhibit A is hybrid private/socialized medicine that benefits nobody from the poor to the upper middle class). So then the question becomes, do it "right" or essentially eliminate 100 years of economic reform that got us here. In any event, the first step is to realize and recognize where we currently are in order to decide where we want to go.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:32 PM ^
The Nazis had profound philosophical differences with Communists regarding human nature and what an ideal world would look like. The Nazis - or at least Hitler - considered Communism to be the product of a botched (and Jewish) view of humans as essentially equal. He rejected this vehemently, of course, and thought it imposed weakness on a society. Communists theoretically wanted the eventual withering of the state as peace and equality made it unnecessary. Hitler wanted states to disappear so that there was a permanent war among the races.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:57 PM ^
I'd tend to agree with everything you said as well. I should clarify: politically it made sense for the Nazis to take out the Communists early on, as they were potential rivals to power and appealed to similar groups of people. To be sure, there were significant differences in the ideologies.
December 29th, 2015 at 8:35 AM ^
Are you saying that socialism is not authoritarian? Or that the Nazis, aka the National Socialist German Workers Party, were not socialist? I think the only way that you could believe that is if you were almost completely unaware of, or misinformed about, the relevant history.
December 29th, 2015 at 12:53 PM ^
The Nazis were Fascist, not Socialist. They hated Communism just as much as they did Capitalism. Self-declared Socialism is just as suspect as self-declared Democracies (see: Democratic People's Republic of Korea). Judge a regime by its actions, not by its name.
December 28th, 2015 at 8:43 PM ^
The one about the guy who eats babies is better imho.
December 28th, 2015 at 8:55 PM ^
I thought that was some interesting insight.
December 28th, 2015 at 10:28 PM ^
If this was still 2008, I'd second this recommendation.
December 29th, 2015 at 7:07 AM ^
Though your post was negged, it appears that it has spurred on an engaging discussion. I have enjoyed reading the follow ups. I'm willing to bet that this type of discussion doesn't take place on the 11W board...
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