i find this extremely interesting
OT: Need help from people with medical or athletic training background
January 24th, 2011 at 5:44 PM
#1
OT: Need help from people with medical or athletic training background
I've been playing pick up basketball games for a couple of weeks. While playing, my lower shins and bottom arch of my feet are really sore whenever I tried to push myself running at the court. With a short rest, the pain subside, but whenever I play, it comes back quickly and it is painful for me to run hard. I tried resting and icing but it does me no good since it keeps coming up when I come back to the gym and play basketball.
Any advice or help?
January 24th, 2011 at 5:48 PM | 
I have no medical knowledge
I have no medical knowledge
January 24th, 2011 at 5:51 PM |
Agreed
Agreed
The right shoes or insole/inserts can make a HUGE difference.
Even socks. My basketball shoes kind of suck but once I started wearing different, better athletic socks i wouldn't get sore.
I'd say make sure your shoes fit your feet correctly
"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"
January 24th, 2011 at 5:55 PM |
Well.
Well.
Shoes are important, so is stretching and warm up.
Do foot inversions and eversions to help limber up the muscles on the outside of your calf. These muscles extend from your knee, run basically behind your heel to the bottom of your foot, and help give you that push off the floor.
Id recommend rest, heat and maybe some aspirin, along with changing your shoes. It could be that your basketball shoes are just too high on the achilles tendon producing inflammation and local tenderness.
On the fifth night—possibly the sixth—a breeze arose.
It was cool and dewy.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:14 PM |
I definitely wouldn't take
I definitely wouldn't take
I definitely wouldn't take any of your advice. Heat is the absolute last thing you should be doing with an injury. Rest, Ice, compression and elevation are the 4 things that need to be done to an injured area.
January 24th, 2011 at 7:09 PM |
This is actually right. I
This is actually right. I
This is actually right. I had calf problems (severe tightening where I couldn't move them) and I was told by doctors to never put heat on them. Course I never did anything about it so I can't really tell you the result (I will never give up snowboarding, period).
January 24th, 2011 at 7:22 PM |
Correct. Icing isn't just
Correct. Icing isn't just
Correct. Icing isn't just about numbing pain. It slows down the metabolism of the injured and surrounding tissues which helps to prevent the spread of the injury. It is also a stimulus for more blood when the ice is removed. In summation, heating pads are the devil.
I know from experience dude. If you know what I mean.
January 24th, 2011 at 7:39 PM |
during injury..
during injury..
ice for the first 24-48 hrs, anything past that actually inhibits tissue repair.
Heat stimulates the metabolic rate of cells to respond to tissue damage. Point of ice is to decrease inflammation, the heat is to increase healing.
On the fifth night—possibly the sixth—a breeze arose.
It was cool and dewy.
January 24th, 2011 at 7:21 PM |
Heat before
Heat before
Heat before running/exercising to loosen up tight muscles; RICE after. That's what our trainer always had us do for cross country back in the day.
January 24th, 2011 at 5:53 PM |
I've had the
I've had the
same shoes for a couple of years and never had this problem.
January 24th, 2011 at 5:55 PM |
That might be the problem.
That might be the problem.
That might be the problem. Support breaks down in your shoes after using them for a certain amount of time/miles. They're like tires - you can't use them forever.
Getting a new pair (even if it's the same style shoe) might help.
January 24th, 2011 at 5:59 PM |
I guess
I guess
I took good care of the shoes and there is no sign of wear and tear anywhere.
Should I buy the insole gel type or something like that to help absorb the shock?
January 24th, 2011 at 6:05 PM |
The sole and the insole of
The sole and the insole of
The sole and the insole of the shoes are what wear down/get compacted. There's not as much cushion as there once was. Buying a new insole might lessen the problem slightly, but that won't get rid of the problem altogether.
FWIW, I think running shoes are typically supposed to be replaced every 500 miles. If you're exercising or playing basketball frequently, you might have reached that plateau a while ago - and all the jumping/cutting you're doing on the basketball floor probably doesn't help. And I'm not even sure that basketball shoes are as durable as running shoes.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:09 PM |
Ok
Ok
thanks.
I would love to buy new basketball shoes but I'm pretty broke since I have to pay for grad schools and rents/books. I can't really do it until I have a real job which sucks because I love playing basketball. I've been frustrated by the constant pain and was really limited on what I can do on the court.
January 24th, 2011 at 9:10 PM |
Advice
Advice
I know that you are getting a lot of advice, but much of it seems to be inaccurate. I am a Physical Therapist and Athletic Trainer, (I know that makes it sound like I am bragging, but I assure you I am not, I just want to qualify my comments). It his highly unlikely that this is plantar fascitis as you would have significant pain when first standing up, not worsening pain with exercise. IMO the folks who are talking about your shoes and arches are the most likely correct. However, it is virtually impossible to tell without looking at your feet especially during gait. You could try 'gellin', but I really doubt that would be effective. An excellent first step would be to try a different pair of shoes. It blows because they are expensive, but it may cure your pain right away. If that does not work, you may need to look at custom orthotics but this would need to be evaluated by a certified orthotist and again expensive. If you are going to continue to attempt to play, a gradual warm up is essential. Stretching can help also, but recent studies have shown the warm up to be more important. Take this advice for what it's worth
January 24th, 2011 at 9:30 PM |
custom orthotics...
custom orthotics...
I do not know why I waited 34 yrs to get these..makes 100% difference in standing, walking, everything...it is worth the $, and you can reimburse it via health insurance FSA HSA etc.., if that is a program you have...ran me about 200$ but no more arch issues in my feet
" Fly. Just fly. We got... something. I ain't saying what it is. Just... trust me."
January 24th, 2011 at 6:33 PM |
You're on the money for
You're on the money for
You're on the money for running. 500 miles is tops for a support shoe, and it drops drastically if you don't need as much support.
Basically you go through two pairs of running shoes for a high competition level season (i.e. HS varsity or college), and two or three in the offseason when you tone down the miles. No clue how this relates to basketball shoes, but you can take that FWIW.
"We bring you to Michigan to take care of Michigan; your job is to protect that block M."
-Carol Hutchins
January 24th, 2011 at 8:34 PM |
this really depends. People
this really depends. People
this really depends. People have different foot types. My reccomendation is to ask for a PT who is well respected for feet. They can tell you much better than even the workers at a running store. Adding cushion to a pronated foot (one that collapses) is detrimental, so figuring out than type of foot you have is key. A supinated foot (stay on the outsides of the foot generally) is a rigid foot, which provides spring but fails to cushion and can lead to numerous foot, knee, and hip problems.
January 24th, 2011 at 5:49 PM |
sounds like shin splints to
sounds like shin splints to
sounds like shin splints to me but I'm not a doctor. but I'm drinking a dr. pepper as we speak
Touchdown Manningham! MICHIGAN WINS!
January 24th, 2011 at 6:46 PM |
Yep shin splints
Yep shin splints
I had these in high school. Put your legs in an ice bath. In HS, we had the big tub with freezing water. That did the trick. Also google shin splints stretching. The arch pain has already been addressed--get some Dr. Scholls or something.
...confidence is the stain they can't wipe off...
January 24th, 2011 at 5:51 PM |
It's most likely fasciitis.
It's most likely fasciitis.
Plantar fasciitis (aka Rasheed Wallace/Eli Manning Disorder) is when connective tissue on the soles of your feet are inflamed. There is a similar layer of connective tissue separating muscle compartments in your lower leg, that's what normally gets described as "shin splints". In both cases, you need to stop working the muscles for a while so the swelling can go down. You can expedite the process with icing, but your muscles will chill a lot faster than the fascia will- so don't ice for a prolonged period of time.
January 24th, 2011 at 5:55 PM |
Worst case scenario
Worst case scenario
In an absolute worst case scenario, you could get a fasciotomy, where they go in and cut away some of the fascia so the pressure is relieved. That's what Hakeem Nicks had done this year. Somehow I doubt you want surgery, though, so just try and rest for a few weeks.
EDIT: I understand you said you tried rest and icing, but you really need to stop doing strenuous work (planting and pushing off) for multiple weeks before it goes down. The constant work of walking around makes it tough to get good, prolonged rest.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:07 PM |
crazy talk
crazy talk
Fasciotomies are for acute compartment syndrome, which he most certainly does not have, and chronic exertional compartment syndrome, which again is a rare entity. Where is your pain in your shins? And in your feet? You likely have two problems: plantar fasciitis and shin splints. Look up some stretching exercises to do for these problems. Anti-inflammatories like Motrin can help as well. It is hard to diagnose you over the interwebs but common things being common, this is probably what is ailing you. I agree with other posters that you need new shoes as well. You can't wear the same ones for 2 years and expect them to offer you any support. I am an orthopaedic surgeon for what it's worth, and as a disclaimer if you don't get better with conservative measures like the stretching exercises and rest you should get checked out.
January 24th, 2011 at 8:29 PM |
This
This
Jeffy Fresh lays down some truthness here. Another thing to consider is just some tendonitis or fasciitis if you just recently started exercising/360-tomahawkin-fools. In summary: Motrin, stretching(if it is too sore to stretch, try stretching in the shower), and rest. FWIW I'm a 3rd year med student, and if your in the bizz, you know that means jack S***, but if your not you might take my advice.
P.S. MaizedandBlue is right in that RICE (Rest Ice Compression Elevation) is for decreasing inflammation acutely, emphasis on acutely. Heat packs are not the devil, they really do help if a muscle is irritated/spasming. Who here hasn't had a sore muscle and taken a hot shower to loosen it up?
January 24th, 2011 at 5:58 PM |
Probably
Probably
so you can give people like me advice when we give patients the wrong advice.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:14 PM |
Doctor > Lawyer regardless of
Doctor > Lawyer regardless of
Doctor > Lawyer regardless of circumstances.
January 24th, 2011 at 8:36 PM |
Hey. Doctors read tons of
Hey. Doctors read tons of
Hey. Doctors read tons of boring sh*t, too. Oh well, at least we get to play god.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:44 PM |
really leaning towards its
really leaning towards its
really leaning towards its not plantar fascitis. i had it my Jr year of HS. I went from swimming where I went to state back to my bread and butter baseball all in the same week. All pounding my feet took after being in the water for the past 4 month made the pain so bad that I couldnt even get out of bed with out walking on my tip toes. If hes even able to put a little pressure on his feet with out feeling like he wants to cut his feet off then my best guess is hes probably got shin splints exspecially when he hasnt been doing that hard of work with his legs in a while. Just my guess from past sport injuries.
Touchdown Manningham! MICHIGAN WINS!
January 24th, 2011 at 7:34 PM |
How did you traumatize your feet so much?
How did you traumatize your feet so much?
The flexors in the sole of your foot don't really get used when you're swimming... I swam all four years in high school, then did track right after, never had foot problems. I did get shin splints one year, but that was more a function of taking up long jump than anything else. Swimming is much more punishment on your leg and shoulder muscles than anything else.
January 24th, 2011 at 5:54 PM |
Overpronation
Overpronation
is a bitch.
January 24th, 2011 at 5:55 PM |
What type of shoes are you wearing?
What type of shoes are you wearing?
What kind of shoes are you wearing? There is a difference in the support characteristics.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:00 PM |
I have a
I have a
basketball shoes just to play basketball. I don't wear it all the time and I only bring it to the gym just for basketball.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:08 PM |
Athletic Training student here
Athletic Training student here
Impossible to tell you exactly without seeing it, listening to you describe more in person but like others said could be shin splints. New shoes, streching and noticeing and making adjustments to your gait if needed. Try some stuff and if the problem stays see your doctor or a sports medicine specialist.
Oh you know, just a typical Michigan fan that goes to Central
January 24th, 2011 at 6:17 PM |
good point
good point
If you visit a physical therapist and/or go to a well equipped running store, they might be able to address any weaknesses you have in your walking/running form. You may be overpronating. You may also be landing on your heel when you run, which increases the pressure on your joints and shins. They might be able to suggest a change to your running stride and/or give you some ideas for proper shoes/inserts.
FWIW, I used to have a lot of pain in one knee and suffer from shin splints. I adjusted my running stride last year, which eradicated the shin splints and I haven't had much pain in my knee at all.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:10 PM |
this used to happen to me a
this used to happen to me a
this used to happen to me a lot.
things that helped...
- stretching well beforehand and warming up on a bike
- breaking in the shoes
- tying the shoes tight, but not too tight
- staying hydrated
- massaging the calves once pain had set in
- keeping the muscles warm (by either wearing long pants or longer socks)
its all pretty common stuff.
This is home...
January 24th, 2011 at 6:20 PM |
Yes, plus
Yes, plus
buying rigid shoes. You (or anyone) should really go to a specialty store to get the correct fitting shoes.
"They're stuck with that quarterback (sophomore Braxton Miller) for the next two or three years, that's fine with me. He throws worse than (Tim) Tebow. - Steve Everitt
January 24th, 2011 at 6:29 PM |
Yesssirrr.
Yesssirrr.
A specialty store will check your stride to determine if you're a pronator or a supinator and fit you with a pair of shoes for your foot / stride type. Also, try out some compression socks. If you go for a good pair of compression socks or sleeves, they will help with shin splints.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:10 PM |
If only...
If only...
This thread had been started in time for Jay Cutler to read before yesterday's game...
5 4 3 2 1 Touchdown!
Touchdown Billy Taylor!
Touchdown Billy Taylor!
January 24th, 2011 at 6:13 PM |
Thanks for the advice
Thanks for the advice
everybody who contributed to this thread! It is really helpful. I wish that I can buy new shoes but I'm pretty much broke. lol
January 24th, 2011 at 6:17 PM |
UHS
UHS
Why not make an appointment at UHS for free? I had my knee checked out there. It was pretty convenient.
Their website: http://uhs.umich.edu/
And number: 734-764-8325
January 24th, 2011 at 6:33 PM |
I would have gone there
I would have gone there
but I graduated unfortunately.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:18 PM |
Be careful with that kind of injury
Be careful with that kind of injury
If you aren't careful, that's the level of injury that can knock you out of, for example, an NFC Championship game.
But seriously folks, I used to experience similar pain when I played baseball. It might feel structural, but stretching and warming up might help more than you would think.
January 24th, 2011 at 6:44 PM |
Shin splints
Shin splints
shin splints
If someone ever invented a low fat vitamin - filled vegetable that tasted like fudge covered Rice Krispies treats - I'd probably eat better
January 24th, 2011 at 6:44 PM |
I dont know if anyone else
I dont know if anyone else
I dont know if anyone else said this but buddy you have what is called shin splints you need high ankle tape and ankle braces also great soles can help
January 24th, 2011 at 6:53 PM |
Arch pain
Arch pain
What you have is called posterior tibial tendonitis. It is the muscle that runs behind the medial malleolus at your ankle and makes the arch in your foot.
At times, especially with jumping and other excerises that tighten your Achilles tendon, your foot will pronate more to compensate with the ground reactuve forces.
Best treatment is to buy a shoe called a motion control shoe with an inflexible "shank (the middle of the bottom of the shoe)" and to strech your Achilles tendon. If you rid of the tightness in your Achilles and with proper shoe gear, you should be able to control excessive stress on the muscle. (I work in the podiatry field, btw)
Feetandfootball ...
January 24th, 2011 at 6:54 PM |
If you cant afford shoes, buy
If you cant afford shoes, buy
If you cant afford shoes, buy anti-pronation insoles (they sell them at sports authority/dicks/etc) and lace your shoes in runner's knots.
Feetandfootball ...
January 24th, 2011 at 7:12 PM |
web md
web md
is mgoblog is this the new web md ?
what the mind can conceive the mind can achieve and those who stay will be champions
January 24th, 2011 at 7:17 PM |
Lot of factors
Lot of factors
There are a lot of possible diagnoses.
1. As the other posters have noted - plantar fasciitis, simple over exertion, improper or ill fitting shoes, need for orthotic inserts, and maybe your age is checking up to you.
2. But if these simple basic approaches of anti-inflammatories (ibuprofen aka Motrin), rest, and icing (at the time) and gentle heat afterwords don't help, suggest getting it looked at.
Good luck and I hope you are feeling better soon
January 24th, 2011 at 7:24 PM |
First question would be what
First question would be what
First question would be what your definition of shin is. Are we talking anterior/posterior or medial/lateral aspects of the shank. That'll confirm/eliminate some thoughts. Secondly, if I had to make a stab it you're getting some acute tendonitis/muscle strain from playing basketball. You say you have only been playing for a few weeks, what was your activity level before starting? If you were at a low level, it's probably being caused by the stress of the new activity and will subside as you continue doing it. Rest and ice it when it hurts, play when it doesn't and seem the structures will strength. In addition, as you responded to Magnus, your shoes sound old as hell and need to go. Even a guy who works at a shoe store* can watch you walk and recommend the right type of shoe. You can probably get them for less than $100.
*- I'm talking about a dedicated running shop, not DIcks.
For full disclosure I'm a senior majoring "movement science" (part exercise physiology/biomechanics/motor control) as a pre-med path.
I know from experience dude. If you know what I mean.
January 24th, 2011 at 8:14 PM |
Anatomy
Anatomy
Do tell me which muscles you are refering to that come from the lateral aspect of the tibia that can affect foot arch? Anterior tibialis muscle pain is different bc TA is a weak inverter/dorsiflexor not a plantarflexor and FHL is not likely the cause of his arch pain. Are you thinking about the peroneals? I'm curious what you're thinking ...
Also, you can purchase shoes, often timescheaper, at Dick or a big box store than a running store because the shoe companies (Brooks/Mizuno/Asics) have contracts with them as well. I'm all for supporting the little guy, but this person said he/she had no money, so that's important here.
Where you plan on going to med school?
Feetandfootball ...
January 24th, 2011 at 8:41 PM |
Boom MGoRoasted.
On one
Boom MGoRoasted.
On one
Boom MGoRoasted.
On one hand, it's sad that we have to puff our chest on a message board. On the other hand, that is why I love mgoblog.
I have no medical knowledge nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but perhaps you should try a different pair of shoes. I had the same issue last summer and switched shoes and my shins/feet stopped hurting.