OT: Need help from people with medical or athletic training background
I have no medical knowledge nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but perhaps you should try a different pair of shoes. I had the same issue last summer and switched shoes and my shins/feet stopped hurting.
The right shoes or insole/inserts can make a HUGE difference.
Even socks. My basketball shoes kind of suck but once I started wearing different, better athletic socks i wouldn't get sore.
I'd say make sure your shoes fit your feet correctly
Shoes are important, so is stretching and warm up.
Do foot inversions and eversions to help limber up the muscles on the outside of your calf. These muscles extend from your knee, run basically behind your heel to the bottom of your foot, and help give you that push off the floor.
Id recommend rest, heat and maybe some aspirin, along with changing your shoes. It could be that your basketball shoes are just too high on the achilles tendon producing inflammation and local tenderness.
I definitely wouldn't take any of your advice. Heat is the absolute last thing you should be doing with an injury. Rest, Ice, compression and elevation are the 4 things that need to be done to an injured area.
This is actually right. I had calf problems (severe tightening where I couldn't move them) and I was told by doctors to never put heat on them. Course I never did anything about it so I can't really tell you the result (I will never give up snowboarding, period).
Correct. Icing isn't just about numbing pain. It slows down the metabolism of the injured and surrounding tissues which helps to prevent the spread of the injury. It is also a stimulus for more blood when the ice is removed. In summation, heating pads are the devil.
ice for the first 24-48 hrs, anything past that actually inhibits tissue repair.
Heat stimulates the metabolic rate of cells to respond to tissue damage. Point of ice is to decrease inflammation, the heat is to increase healing.
Heat before running/exercising to loosen up tight muscles; RICE after. That's what our trainer always had us do for cross country back in the day.
same shoes for a couple of years and never had this problem.
That might be the problem. Support breaks down in your shoes after using them for a certain amount of time/miles. They're like tires - you can't use them forever.
Getting a new pair (even if it's the same style shoe) might help.
I took good care of the shoes and there is no sign of wear and tear anywhere.
Should I buy the insole gel type or something like that to help absorb the shock?
The sole and the insole of the shoes are what wear down/get compacted. There's not as much cushion as there once was. Buying a new insole might lessen the problem slightly, but that won't get rid of the problem altogether.
FWIW, I think running shoes are typically supposed to be replaced every 500 miles. If you're exercising or playing basketball frequently, you might have reached that plateau a while ago - and all the jumping/cutting you're doing on the basketball floor probably doesn't help. And I'm not even sure that basketball shoes are as durable as running shoes.
I would love to buy new basketball shoes but I'm pretty broke since I have to pay for grad schools and rents/books. I can't really do it until I have a real job which sucks because I love playing basketball. I've been frustrated by the constant pain and was really limited on what I can do on the court.
I know that you are getting a lot of advice, but much of it seems to be inaccurate. I am a Physical Therapist and Athletic Trainer, (I know that makes it sound like I am bragging, but I assure you I am not, I just want to qualify my comments). It his highly unlikely that this is plantar fascitis as you would have significant pain when first standing up, not worsening pain with exercise. IMO the folks who are talking about your shoes and arches are the most likely correct. However, it is virtually impossible to tell without looking at your feet especially during gait. You could try 'gellin', but I really doubt that would be effective. An excellent first step would be to try a different pair of shoes. It blows because they are expensive, but it may cure your pain right away. If that does not work, you may need to look at custom orthotics but this would need to be evaluated by a certified orthotist and again expensive. If you are going to continue to attempt to play, a gradual warm up is essential. Stretching can help also, but recent studies have shown the warm up to be more important. Take this advice for what it's worth
I do not know why I waited 34 yrs to get these..makes 100% difference in standing, walking, everything...it is worth the $, and you can reimburse it via health insurance FSA HSA etc.., if that is a program you have...ran me about 200$ but no more arch issues in my feet
You're on the money for running. 500 miles is tops for a support shoe, and it drops drastically if you don't need as much support.
Basically you go through two pairs of running shoes for a high competition level season (i.e. HS varsity or college), and two or three in the offseason when you tone down the miles. No clue how this relates to basketball shoes, but you can take that FWIW.
this really depends. People have different foot types. My reccomendation is to ask for a PT who is well respected for feet. They can tell you much better than even the workers at a running store. Adding cushion to a pronated foot (one that collapses) is detrimental, so figuring out than type of foot you have is key. A supinated foot (stay on the outsides of the foot generally) is a rigid foot, which provides spring but fails to cushion and can lead to numerous foot, knee, and hip problems.
sounds like shin splints to me but I'm not a doctor. but I'm drinking a dr. pepper as we speak
I had these in high school. Put your legs in an ice bath. In HS, we had the big tub with freezing water. That did the trick. Also google shin splints stretching. The arch pain has already been addressed--get some Dr. Scholls or something.
Plantar fasciitis (aka Rasheed Wallace/Eli Manning Disorder) is when connective tissue on the soles of your feet are inflamed. There is a similar layer of connective tissue separating muscle compartments in your lower leg, that's what normally gets described as "shin splints". In both cases, you need to stop working the muscles for a while so the swelling can go down. You can expedite the process with icing, but your muscles will chill a lot faster than the fascia will- so don't ice for a prolonged period of time.
In an absolute worst case scenario, you could get a fasciotomy, where they go in and cut away some of the fascia so the pressure is relieved. That's what Hakeem Nicks had done this year. Somehow I doubt you want surgery, though, so just try and rest for a few weeks.
EDIT: I understand you said you tried rest and icing, but you really need to stop doing strenuous work (planting and pushing off) for multiple weeks before it goes down. The constant work of walking around makes it tough to get good, prolonged rest.
Fasciotomies are for acute compartment syndrome, which he most certainly does not have, and chronic exertional compartment syndrome, which again is a rare entity. Where is your pain in your shins? And in your feet? You likely have two problems: plantar fasciitis and shin splints. Look up some stretching exercises to do for these problems. Anti-inflammatories like Motrin can help as well. It is hard to diagnose you over the interwebs but common things being common, this is probably what is ailing you. I agree with other posters that you need new shoes as well. You can't wear the same ones for 2 years and expect them to offer you any support. I am an orthopaedic surgeon for what it's worth, and as a disclaimer if you don't get better with conservative measures like the stretching exercises and rest you should get checked out.
Jeffy Fresh lays down some truthness here. Another thing to consider is just some tendonitis or fasciitis if you just recently started exercising/360-tomahawkin-fools. In summary: Motrin, stretching(if it is too sore to stretch, try stretching in the shower), and rest. FWIW I'm a 3rd year med student, and if your in the bizz, you know that means jack S***, but if your not you might take my advice.
P.S. MaizedandBlue is right in that RICE (Rest Ice Compression Elevation) is for decreasing inflammation acutely, emphasis on acutely. Heat packs are not the devil, they really do help if a muscle is irritated/spasming. Who here hasn't had a sore muscle and taken a hot shower to loosen it up?
so you can give people like me advice when we give patients the wrong advice.
really leaning towards its not plantar fascitis. i had it my Jr year of HS. I went from swimming where I went to state back to my bread and butter baseball all in the same week. All pounding my feet took after being in the water for the past 4 month made the pain so bad that I couldnt even get out of bed with out walking on my tip toes. If hes even able to put a little pressure on his feet with out feeling like he wants to cut his feet off then my best guess is hes probably got shin splints exspecially when he hasnt been doing that hard of work with his legs in a while. Just my guess from past sport injuries.
The flexors in the sole of your foot don't really get used when you're swimming... I swam all four years in high school, then did track right after, never had foot problems. I did get shin splints one year, but that was more a function of taking up long jump than anything else. Swimming is much more punishment on your leg and shoulder muscles than anything else.
is a bitch.
What kind of shoes are you wearing? There is a difference in the support characteristics.
basketball shoes just to play basketball. I don't wear it all the time and I only bring it to the gym just for basketball.
Impossible to tell you exactly without seeing it, listening to you describe more in person but like others said could be shin splints. New shoes, streching and noticeing and making adjustments to your gait if needed. Try some stuff and if the problem stays see your doctor or a sports medicine specialist.
If you visit a physical therapist and/or go to a well equipped running store, they might be able to address any weaknesses you have in your walking/running form. You may be overpronating. You may also be landing on your heel when you run, which increases the pressure on your joints and shins. They might be able to suggest a change to your running stride and/or give you some ideas for proper shoes/inserts.
FWIW, I used to have a lot of pain in one knee and suffer from shin splints. I adjusted my running stride last year, which eradicated the shin splints and I haven't had much pain in my knee at all.
this used to happen to me a lot.
things that helped...
- stretching well beforehand and warming up on a bike
- breaking in the shoes
- tying the shoes tight, but not too tight
- staying hydrated
- massaging the calves once pain had set in
- keeping the muscles warm (by either wearing long pants or longer socks)
its all pretty common stuff.
buying rigid shoes. You (or anyone) should really go to a specialty store to get the correct fitting shoes.
A specialty store will check your stride to determine if you're a pronator or a supinator and fit you with a pair of shoes for your foot / stride type. Also, try out some compression socks. If you go for a good pair of compression socks or sleeves, they will help with shin splints.
This thread had been started in time for Jay Cutler to read before yesterday's game...
everybody who contributed to this thread! It is really helpful. I wish that I can buy new shoes but I'm pretty much broke. lol
Why not make an appointment at UHS for free? I had my knee checked out there. It was pretty convenient.
Their website: http://uhs.umich.edu/
And number: 734-764-8325
but I graduated unfortunately.
If you aren't careful, that's the level of injury that can knock you out of, for example, an NFC Championship game.
But seriously folks, I used to experience similar pain when I played baseball. It might feel structural, but stretching and warming up might help more than you would think.
I dont know if anyone else said this but buddy you have what is called shin splints you need high ankle tape and ankle braces also great soles can help
What you have is called posterior tibial tendonitis. It is the muscle that runs behind the medial malleolus at your ankle and makes the arch in your foot.
At times, especially with jumping and other excerises that tighten your Achilles tendon, your foot will pronate more to compensate with the ground reactuve forces.
Best treatment is to buy a shoe called a motion control shoe with an inflexible "shank (the middle of the bottom of the shoe)" and to strech your Achilles tendon. If you rid of the tightness in your Achilles and with proper shoe gear, you should be able to control excessive stress on the muscle. (I work in the podiatry field, btw)
If you cant afford shoes, buy anti-pronation insoles (they sell them at sports authority/dicks/etc) and lace your shoes in runner's knots.
is mgoblog is this the new web md ?
There are a lot of possible diagnoses.
1. As the other posters have noted - plantar fasciitis, simple over exertion, improper or ill fitting shoes, need for orthotic inserts, and maybe your age is checking up to you.
2. But if these simple basic approaches of anti-inflammatories (ibuprofen aka Motrin), rest, and icing (at the time) and gentle heat afterwords don't help, suggest getting it looked at.
Good luck and I hope you are feeling better soon
First question would be what your definition of shin is. Are we talking anterior/posterior or medial/lateral aspects of the shank. That'll confirm/eliminate some thoughts. Secondly, if I had to make a stab it you're getting some acute tendonitis/muscle strain from playing basketball. You say you have only been playing for a few weeks, what was your activity level before starting? If you were at a low level, it's probably being caused by the stress of the new activity and will subside as you continue doing it. Rest and ice it when it hurts, play when it doesn't and seem the structures will strength. In addition, as you responded to Magnus, your shoes sound old as hell and need to go. Even a guy who works at a shoe store* can watch you walk and recommend the right type of shoe. You can probably get them for less than $100.
*- I'm talking about a dedicated running shop, not DIcks.
For full disclosure I'm a senior majoring "movement science" (part exercise physiology/biomechanics/motor control) as a pre-med path.
Do tell me which muscles you are refering to that come from the lateral aspect of the tibia that can affect foot arch? Anterior tibialis muscle pain is different bc TA is a weak inverter/dorsiflexor not a plantarflexor and FHL is not likely the cause of his arch pain. Are you thinking about the peroneals? I'm curious what you're thinking ...
Also, you can purchase shoes, often timescheaper, at Dick or a big box store than a running store because the shoe companies (Brooks/Mizuno/Asics) have contracts with them as well. I'm all for supporting the little guy, but this person said he/she had no money, so that's important here.
Where you plan on going to med school?
On one hand, it's sad that we have to puff our chest on a message board. On the other hand, that is why I love mgoblog.
Do tell me you read his post.....
"While playing, my lower shins"
(emphasis my own- I was talking about his shins not feet) Last I checked, there's a lot of stuff on the lateral/medial aspects of the lower leg that can cause "shin pain". Yeah the classic example of shin splits is injury to the tib. anterior, but it pretty commonly occurs elsewhere. EDL, Peroneus all run close to there and can eccentric loading injury. Not to mention that injury to just about structure in the lower leg can surface as referred pain in the area. Loading injuries to the tibia can refer there as well.
Also, Joe Schmo working at Dicks sporting goods isn't going to know overpronation from drop foot gait. If the OP doesn't know what exactly he needs, he can do a lot more damage by getting the wrong shoe because some 16 year old thought it looked bitching. How do I know? I ran the bike counter at the local Dicks for a few years, and save a couple people, everyone there had no idea what they were talking about.
Not trying to attack you, but way to tokenize yourself about work and Dick's. I agree with your point that someone there may not know what's best for the person, but any Joe Schmo can also read about stability shoes and make an informed decision on their own. How many times do you go into a store and have the representative make the decision for you? I hope not too often.
Also, most muscle action in the leg does cause changes in the foot through its eccentric (or isometric, as in walking) muscle activity as the majority of leg muscles are extrinsic to the foot. Peroneal pain does not cause shin pain. Most people refer to it as ankle pain, at least from my years of clinical medicine and sugery in correction of peroneal spasms and lateral ankle instability. It is also much more common for posterior tibialis muscle to be called shin splits, because the foot functions much longer in plantarflexion from heel touch to midstance and through propulsion than does the dorsiflexors of the leg and foot. A great article was written on this and it is listed here:
Zajac, F. E., R. R. Neptune, et al. (2003). "Biomechanics and muscle coordination of human walking: part II: lessons from dynamical simulations and clinical implications." Gait Posture17(1): 1-17.
syndrome. The posterior tibialis muscle originates from the inner border of your tibia at the lower portion. Often people with flat feet or tendency towards pronation will get shin splints or posterior tibial stress syndrome. It sounds like you may have some posterior tibial tendonitis as well as the tendon runs all the way down just behing and below your medial malleolus (inner knob of your ankle). Less likely plantar fasciitis as that is typically the bottom of your heal out into the arch.
Stretching, anti inflammatories, activity modification and a medial wedge or arch support should help.
A little help from a PT here. Not sure if any of this is mentioned, I didnt want to read through all of the post.
The shins are probably just micro fractures in the tibia from repeated pounding on the court. This type of thing happens with prolonged time of play. The arches hurting sounds like it could be plantar fasciitis. This is a tightness of the fascia that extends from your heel to the balls of your feet and when it becomes tight it can be painful and rather debilitating; see Tim Duncan. What I think causes this is your style of running actually. Now it could be tough to change that depending on your age I suppose but inserts in your shoes could help this. I suggest seeing a PT on a "consult" basis or visit a local running store and they would be able to size you up and let you know where you need support and set you up with some inserts as well. I hope I was helpful and I hope you can get that fixed.
BTW, never use heat for an injury, always ice.
I hope I am not too late in responding but I have to agree with MGoGarbs. The rest, ice and ibuprofen (if you are not allergic to it) is the best advice I can give. The pain is killer so I know how you feel. Had it a few times.
Best thing I ever learned for shin splints...prevention is key. Sit down on a bench, stool, couch, whatever so that your butt is higher than your feet. Put your feet flat on the ground, raise your toes up as high as they can go and hold tight leaving the heel of your foot on the ground...hold...hold. You'll feel the muscles in your shin tightening, release letting your toes go back down to the floor...repeat this exercise for 3 sets of 12 reps every day forever...You won't get shin splints as long as you regularly do this simple little exercise.
Hope that helps, sorry if repeated, read through and hadn't seen it
As for your arch, your stride is probably messed up...when you run, your feet should be straight...not toe pointed out...common problem...also, shorten your stride...don't reach your feet too far out in front of you, use shorter stride and step more rather than a long stride