Gotta give it to Spoelstra too
this week in unintentionally grim-sounding recruiting headlines
Gotta give it to Spoelstra too
121-106 Miami final. Heat win series 4-1.
Juwan Howard wins a title, nice.
It's great to see Juwan (probably?) end a long, long playing career with a ring.
Awesome player but no way I call him a king. Never ever! :)
man, lotta butthurt cleveland fans on here, huh?
The only reason I like seeing this is for Juwan.
I cringe at the thought of the fresh wave of ringwhores that will find their way to Miami in free agency.
A ringwhore is a frontrunner, specifically one that desperately prioritizes being on a championship roster when they could start/make more money/have a more defined role elsewhere.
Karl Malone on the Lakers in 2004 is a prime example.
Lebron played for the worst team in the NBA in cleveland (seriously, look what happened when he left). He knew he wasn't winning a ring with that supporting cast. Jordan couldn't have won with that team.
In regards to having a more defined role elsewhere, I think it's clear that lebron preferred his role in Miami of being an all around player who could distribute to superstars over being the only option in cleveland.
I wasn't talking about LeBron, but the vets that will inevitably be eager to ride his coattails now that the Heat have won.
That's asinine. You can't criticize a player for wanting to be part of a high-quality team.
Would you call a recruit who joined Team 134 a 'ringwhore' because he though we were building a national championship caliber team? No, you wouldn't. You'd say he's making a great deciison and he wants to be a part of a great team. Yes, he could have 'started' at Indiana, had a 'more defined role' on Michigan State, or 'make more money' at Ohio State. But people want to be a part of a team, becuase in the end it's teams that win championships.
And it's exponentially greater in professional sports, where whether or not you win a championship completely defines your career. Out of curiousity, is KG a ringwhore too? What about some of the guys who have taken lower salaries to play for the Red Wings?
cheliose and borque are nothing but ring whores
of the most insightful comments on this thread. I am so sick of people getting mad at someone for leaving their "home team," to go play for a better team.
I mean he did leave one of the "worst states ever!" I would have left also.
I am on my iPhone and don't know how my post did not reply to a2_electricboogaloo even though I clicked reply on his post
I can roll my eyes at players who settle and opt to be carried rather than compete and contribute to their fullest. It happens every time a new champion is named and is hardly a new phenomenon.
Apples and oranges.
Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen were both traded to Boston and thus the ring chaser label wasnot applicable. They are free agents now but as they've already won their rings with Boston and have ridden it out until that window has almost completely closed, they are almost immune to scrutiny.
I dont follow hockey but I am aware that the Wings are not just the new hotness flavor of the week but are one of the best franchises historically.
Say what you want about it, but I maintain, if I was in that situation, I would do that exact thing. Pro careers are defined by whether or not they won a championship. Players like Charles Barkley and Dan Marino will always have the little asterisk on their career saying that they never won it all. So if your a guy, heading towards the end of your career what do you do? Waste away on a dead end team that has little-to-no shot of winning anything and have your career forever marred by the lack of jewelery? Or do you sign for less on a championship caliber team, and end your career fighting for it all and a chance at late redemption of your long career?
It's an absolute no brainer for me. You can say you wouldn't do it, and you can roll your eyes at them, but my money says that if you had one year left in your career and you are choosing between a mediocre team like the current iteration of the Pistons and a champion team with a chance to redeem your career, you'd sign with Miami as well.
Your monopoly money is no good here. That's not what I'd do. I'd likely sign with my hometown team and/or take the opportunity to play for a legendary coach and/or see what it's like to be part of a historically great franchise. I'd look at the Pistons, Spurs, Lakers, and Celtics (and even retirement) before I considered the Heat.
I've never been a fan of the "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" mentality, of the rich getting richer, or anything that would not promote parity.
I don't hold Barkley or Malone's lack of a title against them any more than I revere Robert Horry for having 7 rings.
Taking less money to sign with a good team isn't all about rings and posterity. Anyone who has any competitive drive prefers winning to losing, and you're likely to do a lot more of the former if you surround yourself with a good team.
When I used to play at the CCRB, I'd go out of my way to not run with teams composed of middle aged guys with ankle weights and 130-lb kids who had never touched a basketball before. The game is a lot more fun when you're on the right side of ass beatings.
I don't remember everyone being up in arms about the 2002 Red Wings. The roster was stocked with end-of-career legends who were looking for a Stanley Cup to add to their resumes. Professional athletes want to win championships. Yes, they like the $$ and the fame, but, ultimately, they want a ring.
Would get his ring. The kid was just way too talented and plays the game the right way. Well deserved LeBron, well deserved...
The only guy to hand it to Ohio harder than coach hoke in the last five years. The man is a constant team player and hard worker. I don't hang out with him but I enjoy watching him play. Well done Lebron.
It took 19 years for a Fab Five player to win an NBA Ring and Juwan did it in his last year (probably) in the NBA
This Finals match up was much needed for the NBA. They would benefit from eliminating teams in order to condense the talent so that fans could enjoy more match ups such as this year's NBA Finals.
Cleveland had their chance to build a team around him in which the next best player was Mo Williams. You would do the same damn thing and James and Co. did everything in a respectable and business manner. You can't not have respect for the way the handled themselves throughout this year
I live in the Oklahoma City metro area, so obviously I'm a tad bitter about the outcome, but I feel like this was the Heat's year. Honestly, I expected this outcome. The Thunder are so young, and this was most of their lineup's first Finals (minus Fisher and Perkins). You could tell it affected them in the first two games especially when they started off so cold.
Honestly, I could very easily see these two teams back in the Finals next year. The top teams in the West besides the Thunder are basically just another year older, so I have a hard time seeing any of them improving much without a little player shuffling. In the East, I think the only team that will challenge the Heat are the Bulls, and that is IF Rose is healthy. The Thunder and the Heat have a potential rivalry building here. It's possible it ends up as the next Lakers/Celtics rivalry.
Either way, I'm happy with the continue progress the Thunder have shown over the last four years. The potential is endless with this team.
OKC really needs Harden and Ibaka both back. One of them is gonna have to cope with being underpaid
I'd sure love to see Ibaka next to Greg Monroe, yes this is a Piston thread hijack!
Same here. I was horribly disappointed when he was picked up 5 spots before we selected...DJ White...
I thought we were getting a mulligan when another uber athletic shot blocker from the Congo was up for selection last year, but alas Bismack Biyombo wasn't meant to be, either.
Yeah, I agree. As you point towards, Harden and Ibaka's contracts are both up at the end of next season.
I haven't looked at the numbers as to what the Thunder will be able to offer them, but I believe Russell left the possibility of getting them both locked up by not getting the full max deal everyone expected he would get. Harden will be the tough pull I think. I know there will be teams willing to shell out some major cash to get him, so the Thunder will have to compete with that. I think it's possible though.
As someone in living in Seattle...lol
I'm not a basketball fan, but I usually keep tabs on the sport during the playoffs so that I can sound semi-intelligent during work conversations. I can't pick apart what is good and bad about specific plays or players most of the time, but I have seen Lebron play this game for nearly a decade now in the playoffs and he has been flat out awesome this year. There is no way around it. Miami was his team. Not Wade's. Not a Big 3. Battier, Chalmers, and Miller stepped up at big times. Bosh was good when he came back. Wade was up and down, but had some great second halves. But Lebron carried the Heat through the playoffs and it was really damn impressive.
I watched basketball more this year because he is so amazing to watch. He is a team player with absolutely incredible court vision. And he plays good to great defense against anyone on the court. He isn't a ball hog. He makes his teammates better. He puts up with more pressure than any other athlete (in America at least). I understand people have a problem with the Decision, but how can you not enjoy watching him play? Or doubt how great he is? I hope Lebron and Durant go head to head for a long time. Say what you want, but Lebron dealt with two years of crap and stepped up his game when it mattered. He earned this.
And congratulations Juwan!
The refs were awful during the series. They had a huge effect on the series espically Game 2 and 4. The calls definately favored the Heat.
Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.
This is a completely ridiculous lie propagated by LeBron haters.
The Thunder shot more free throws in 2 of the 5 games, and in game 5 they were ahead in free throws shot until the midway through the fourth quarter, when the game was already out of hand.
For the series the Thunder shot 93 free throws to the Heat's 136.
So the Heat basically shot 8 more free throws per game, which makes total sense seeing as the Thunder are a jump shooting team while the Heat rely heavily on taking the ball to the hoop and drawing contact.
It's not all about just the free throws. It's about fouls called against OKC in general. Durant was in foul trouble for a couple games and had to sit at key times. If OKCs best players are on the bench, how do they stand a chance? And as your stat pointed out Miami still shot more free throws. Now I'm not saying that was deciding factor in the series because Miami played well. But to say the refs didnt factor into a couple of those games wouldn't be right either.
Durant was in foul trouble because LeBron put him in foul trouble, not because the refs were playing out some super duper secret agenda and/or wink and a nod agreement between the NBA and the Heat. The Heat shot more free throws because they drove to the hoop and played for contact, while the Thunder settled for jump shots.
The refs always "factor into a game," but to say that they were biased, or even one sided, against the Thunder is completely ridiculous.
If anything, it would've been far better for the NBA if the Heat lost.
I generally agree, with the two exceptions being Westbrook in Game 4, when he must have driven to the hoop 20 times and got hit numerous times, and only shot 3 free throws, and Durant at the end of Game 2. The latter I could write off as a ref not wanting to decide the game, but Westbrook did seem to get refereed differently than, say, Wade (who's much better at accentuating the contact). It might be that because Westbrook is so athletically explosive, that it's harder for the refs to see the contact, but on slow motion, they definitely missed 4 or 5 clear fouls to his upper body and head that should have been called.
I agree that Westbrook should have gotten a few more calls in that game, but I would counter with 2 or three 3 where bosh was smashed to the ground with no call on a lay up inside.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I find these arguments that somehow the refs swayed or had a meaningful impact on the series, totally ridiculous, especially when the facts don't support that argument.
In Game 2, that "goaltending" call was huge on top of some wierd foul calls against OKC. Game 4 was really bad with the James Harden foul on Lebron on top of the foul that called on Durant....I mean Westbrook.....I mean...Casper the Ghost on D. Wade dunk attempt. Not even a minute later, Westbrook came down the lane and got hammered, no call. Game 5, the Flagrant foul on D. Fisher was not a a flagrant...and that right there changed the game.
Opinions are awesome, but facts are better, and the facts disagree with your assessment of series.
The Heat won because they were a better team. They outplayed the Thunder.
They got more calls because they didn't settle for jumpshots, or jack up terrible shots (Westbrook). They took the ball to the rim and initiated contact.
Quit crying, and blaming the refs.
Is it possible to believe that the Heat were the better team and still believe that a few calls had a dramatic impact on the series without believing in a conspiracy? Whether Game 2 went to overtime was basically decided on a call/no call decision and Game 4 had a number of close calls that, had they gone the other way, would likely have allowed OKC to even the series.
That's the nature of the NBA. It's an incredibly difficult game to referee because the action is so fast and refs have to see so many things simultaneously (feet, hands, bodies, ball, trajectory, etc) from a very close vantage point. And these games were mostly went down to the wire so that a few calls did have a big impact. Can't that all be admitted without alleging some kind of pro-Heat conspiracy on the part of the league (and I'm as impatient with all the NBA conspiracy mongering as you seem to be)?
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas. You don't know how the series would have played out had those calls been made. We might have ended up with the exact same result, or maybe the Thunder would've won every game by 15. It's all bullshit speculation that serves no purpose, and most of it sounds like butthurt LeBron haters feebly trying to clutch at anything to diminish his championship.
Also, if that's just the nature of the NBA, why the need to bitch about calls, and argue over them? Just take your own advice, accept it and move on.
I don't think I'm bitching about calls so much as pointing out how a few calls in a series with close games can have a meaningful impact on how it plays out.
But full credit to LeBron. He significantly changed his game by developing a post game and totally taking over when his team needed it most (game 6 in Boston). He's long been the most talented player in the NBA. Now he's figured out how to most effectively use that talent. It'll be interesting to see if Durant evolves his game after this series revealed some of the same issues he had against Dallas last year (ie getting open to receive the ball when facing heavy, off the ball, denial defense.
We could see these teams a couple more times in the finals, if Wade's legs hold up.
Yeah, I'm not even a LeBron guy, or a Heat fan (Stones all day), but it gets tiresome hearing people consistently bash on LeBron to the point where you can't discern the people with something good to say from the blind haters.
I'm also a little prickly from the onset because the NBA is my thing. It's my favorite sport, and the one I follow the most.
I'm going to sound like a complete and total hipster douche bag, but I was livestreaming Sonics/Thunder games from Durant's first few seasons because I'm a big fan off him (and an even bigger fan of Russ), and their games were never on TV.
If given a choice between the NCAA Tournament and the NBA Playoffs, sign me up for the NBA. No hesitation, it's not even close.
The Thunder are going to have some serious questions to answer going into the offseasonn. Namely, who to keep, Ibaka, or Harden. The probability of signing both is extremely low, and even if they do, good luck managing the salary cap, let alone bringing in/keeping solid role players.
I haven't followed the Thunder closely; What would be the reason for keeping Harden over Ibaka? For me, from afar, it's an easy decision. You keep Ibaka if you can only keep one.
I would agree. You have to keep one of the best interior defenders and shot blockers in the game over someone who, while a really good player, basically does the same things your other two stars do.