If you ask me, his stock will never be higher than this. Dantonio has likely peaked at MSU, and if he's got a shot, he should probably take it now.
OT-Narduzzi HC Potential
with 6 seniors leaving this year and MSU avoiding both Wiscy and OSU this year, he is either going to go take a shot as a HC at a school of Cincy's level (where Brian Kelly and Dantonio were before) or..... is content to, in his late 40s, wait 7-10 years for Dantonio to retire. His stock will never be higher. As if he is overrated or underrated no one knows - lots of great assistants are just that, and are not head coach material. Others excel. You have to go and do it to see. Worst case I would think he would get offered a DC at much higher pay at a Texas or USC if other coaches view him as "guru" material.
The age issue is a huge thing. He is at that age where if he wants an HC position he probably needs to grab it now. Otherwise he'll be too old to want to do anything more.
Why is a Michigan State assistant coach a thread topic? I'm not trolling or trying to be a jerk, I just don't know why we have to give this one particular asst. coach his own thread on possibly becoming a head coach. To me it makes us look afraid of him and can't wait for the day when he leaves. Who cares.
I dont get this mentality. If someone is not insecure, he or she has no problem admitting there are good coaches at other schools that we should be concerned about. Narduzzi has done a lot with a little. He is a threat to UM. That's just being a smart, secure fan.
Though this probably could be a subtopic in the Pasqualoni thread. Have it be a Pasqualoni fired and how HC searches may relate to Michigan.
I'm not saying he's not a good coach, he is, his defenses have proven it on the field. But Michigan has faced other great coordinators over the years too. I'm just saying if he was the DC at Iowa as opposed to MSU, he wouldn't get a thread topic. And I'm pretty sure this isn't the first one either. It just makes us look scared and obsessed....like we're frightened children under our blankets waiting for the boogeyman to leave.
Ok, I get the cumulative effect thing - agree on that perspective.
I only see one person in this thread who appears insecure, and it's not Ziff.
At least regarding MSU and their coaches. I am however interested in USC's current situation as a college football fan and have wondered who they'll go after. Narduzzi is an interesting choice and worth talking about. I also wondered about Fitzgerald and if he would be someone they would go after. Regardless, it sounds like you're insecure because you refuse to talk about something our fanbase has a closer relationship with than most. Don't sweat it. Narduzzi is nationally recognized as being a great defensive coach and his name has been thrown around quite a bit the last few years regarding a HC job. I think this is a perfect place to discuss this.
Also, the earth is not flat.
It's one of the top coaches of our biggest instate competition for recruiting and one of our biggest rivals (yes, MSU is a rival, not OSU or ND but they are). It'd be interesting to see what ramfications this has for Michigan and for the college football landscape at large. If you don't like it, don't read it. Stop living up to your signature line.
Did you read where I said I wasn't trolling or trying to come off as a jerk (because that's what most internet posters think when there is an opposing view or two). I was asking a question. So stop trying to act like the thread tough guy and telling people with an opposing view on validity of the thread topic what to do or not.
When you have to preface what you're saying with "Not trying to be a jerk...", "not trying to be a racist/sexist/whatever..." it's probably a good idea not to say what you're going to say because you're going to come off as that.
I'm just sick and tired of whenever I go to read a thread, having to wade through comments discussing the title, whether or not it's OT, or if it should exist. If you don't like it or don't think it's valid don't read it. Simple as that.
to characterize people with an opposing point of view. That's a formula for drawing hostile reactions, the definition of trolling.
I think I prefer the MGoGrammerNazis to the MGoThreadNazis.
As a member of the MGoGrammarNazis, I take great offense at your misspelling of grammar. You're just lucky I'm not one of the MGoSpellingNazis.
I dunno, it might have to do with the fact that MSU is our second-biggest rival in the conference and longtime instate rival, and Iowa isn't.
Plus, when Iowa fans spray-paint graffiti on cars in Ann Arbor, they don't spell it "Ioaa"
You're right: in-state rival, conference rival...got it. But MSU counts one game in the standings, same as Iowa. I just don't get the obsession with another conference teams DC. Pat Narduzzi isn't beating or losing to UM on the field in Oct/Nov
what other coordinator in the conference is getting HC looks? Mattison could have one if he wanted, Narduzzi, and then...who? There wasn't as much talk about Paul Chryst because Wisconsin isn't the rivalry that MSU is, but even that situation wasn't something that Michigan fans just didn't talk about.
Since it's just one game, there's no essential difference between Iowa and MSU?
By that logic, Auburn doesn't mean anything more to an Alabama fan than Ole Miss does, since it's just one game.
All that aside, a single bye-week thread about a coaching vacancy that may or may not be filled by an opponent's DC hardly constitutes "obsession." Some people find it an interesting topic to contemplate during the off-week; you don't. Is this topic any less worthwhile than what people are drinking on Friday night, or Breaking Bad, or Slippery Rock?
Since Iowa and MSU are inter-divisional rivals, games against them really count as two in the standings. Narduzzi gets a lot of attention because he sticks out as the only elite coaching talent on the MSU staff. Were he to leave, the MSU game becomes much easier to pencil in as a victory season-to-season.
If he were the DC at Iowa and Iowa had defenses like MSU does then I am sure this would get a thread. On top of that, MSU is an instate rival who we battle for recruits and play annually. Scared? no. Is MSU's defense nearly as good without him? Nah.
You're right, only the most ardent of fans would care about something like this. Not any of us casual fans who freely spend hours of our short lives on a forum dedicated to college football.
I agree. I saw this thread and shook my head. Stop. Anyways thats all I have and will say.
I'm with winterblue75. MSU is irrelevant and making threads about them make us look like we care about them.
when your little brother gets xBox privileges taken away. Is there something wrong with relishing the thought of your little brother's demise.
While we're at it, I am wondering if Fickel was so shell shocked by his 2011 eperience that he is happy at DC, or if he is ready to head out on his own for a while.
An in-state/divisional rival from 60 miles away which boasts one of the top defenses in the country and has effectively stopped our offense on their way to a 4-1 record over the last 5 years is anything but irrelevant.
I think he'd be in favor of a thread discussing whether and to what extent Wolverines dominate.
And even more fun when you consider the DC of MSU has a pretty direct correlation as to how much the "Wolverines Dominate" for at least one Saturday every fall!
In two weeks MSU is far from irrelevant. The possibility of them losing there DC when we are playing them soon is news most Michigan fans would like to know. Wasn't one of RR's short-comings how he fared against rivals like Ohio State and Michigan State? They are not irrelevant.
Why is Narduzzi a thread topic? He coaches for a rival and the coaching dominoes are starting to fall early. He has a realistic chance of being offered a DC job at a school that pays more or a HC job at a school that wants to play tough defense.
I detest the way they do things at MSU, but the current regime has given them the best results they have had since Nick Saban was there. I am still waiting for regression to the mean to occur now that Michigan doesn't have anyone sabotaging recruiting and Sparty isn't getting the players they were a few years ago, but in the meantime the results speak for themselves; Narduzzi has a record that should result in a better job by the end of the year.
He looks like a career assistant for whom a promotion to HC would be the Peter Principle in action, but he deserves a chance and will get it in today's market.
he owned Borges two years ago and we didn't manage to score a TD last year. Narduzzi leaving would be in our best interest. He's taken guys that weren't our top choice as recruits and turned them into a pretty good D specifically Drummond and Rush off the top of my head.
that the OP decided he wanted to discuss. Narduzzi has succeeded ably at MSU, including against us. And he is openly spoken of for HC positions. He has also antagonized a lot of M fans with this team's sometimes-dirty playing. Why the h shouldn't we talk about him? Go start your own thread--you're welcome to any subject relating to UM football that you like!
What ails this place?
I too am not trying to be "a jerk", but I doubt Narduzzi really thinks "his own thread" on a blog is a real achievement.
Because this is a fucking football blog and you're being simple-minded.
He's the best MSU has, and the Lions would have nabbed a DC while at the same time gimping MSU. As others have said, this year would definitely be an opportune time for him to leave if he does have any head coaching ambitions.
I do not believe he is an NFL DC. Great college football DC and potential good college HC, but his system doesn't translate well to the NFL. Relies to much on a single coverage that dares QBs to hit receivers deep against single coverage. NFL QBs and WRs can do that. Also uses extremely physical CBs, which isn't allowed after 5 yards in the NFL.
While I'm sure he could adapt somewhat, there are better people that fit the NFL schemes than Narduzzi. Those people might not be as good of CFB DCs, but make for better NFL DCs.
The seahawks run primarily the same defense and their pretty good by NFL standards. Whats considered a good defense from college to the NFL tho is completely different.. There are no shut down defenses in the NFL because it's a pass happy league. I'm waiting for the term prostyle offense to refer to offenses like Oklahoma state rather than Alabama.
But MSU definitely takes advantage of the 5-yard rule in college, and the talent level as SpaceCoyote says. Taking it even further, they probably take advantage of poor QBs and WRs in the B1G over the last several years.
Sparty coaches their DBs to be rough and have contact on press coverage. And they extend it beyond that with tugging/pulling/bumping to keep close to receivers, knowing some of that is allowed. They're playing the gray line with officials and have won so far.
I'm not so sure the ND game didn't change that. Kelly want all-in with deep balls (that's what she said) over and over, challenging this. He knew he was going to get some PI's, and some catches. It will be interesting to see if other coaches follow this model, or at least work the officials accordingly when they do take a shot.
I think he has a very good understanding of defense himself and is a good coach in his own right. I also think MSU, while they will probably take a marginal step back on defense next year regardless of what happens with Narduzzi, will still be a solid defensive team as long as Dantonio is there. One thing that has looked good for them is the position coaching, as each position group on defense has continued to look strong.
Now, I think Narduzzi is at his peak right now. But I also think too many people jump at early offers and marginalize their careers because of it. As much as most peope don't like Ron English, his career trajectory could have lead to a better HC gig than Eastern Michigan, which is an auto dead end.
But you get this a lot with HC that were great coordinators before, and how much will teams really trust the coordinators under them to be the brains behind the curtain? I don't think UConn is either a great or terrible place for a guy in Narduzzi's spot. But I think he'd be wise to explore his options a little more after the season than just immediately jumping at that level of position.
I seem to recall several interviews in the past where Mark Dantonio has essentially said that he fully expects Pat Narduzzi to leave one day for a head coaching position, but that he appreciates the loyalty to the Spartans program that Narduzzi has shown by turning down the offers he has already received in the past few years. That being said, I believe Dantonio also made Narduzzi the assistant head coach this spring and that the school gave him a raise last year, so MSU is definitely not looking forward to the prospect of filling the DC position should they have to do it in the next few years.
Plus, in all honesty, I think taking DC jobs at other schools for a moderate pay raise compared to even the pay raise he got at MSU would be a mistake on his part. He would potentially have to rebuild a defense with other personnel (remember, his defenses at MSU weren't great the first few years either, and many MSU fans were calling for his head like they did Roushar). It would just be much more of a risk than staying put for a little longer and getting a mid-level HC gig that way.
Sure, leaving and being successful may help him get a little better first HC job, but it may also delay that opportunity further and it could backfire entirely if those fans aren't immediately happy with what he's done, even if it's not his fault.
I think it depends on what the other school is. If he's offered the DC job at a perennial Top 10-15 program (FSU, Oklahoma, Georgia, Bama, etc), I don't think that woudl be a mistake. You go to a program like that and have success and it opens up a lot of doors.
I generally agree, but English had more questions about his coaching ability when he took the EMU job than Narduzzi does. He had overseen the defense in the Horror as well as coordinated the defense at Louisville under Kragthorpe when they took their major step backwards.
The risk of Narduzzi jumping too early for a job like UConn is that there's going to be a lot of secondary jobs opening up this off-season after USC, Texas (presumably), and other places fill their jobs. If someone like Charlie Strong goes to USC, Narduzzi might be better off throwing his hat in the ring for the Louisville job.
That fact actually makes this a pretty saavy firing by UConn, as they can try to make a hire before the cascading effects of the several big time hires change who's available.
There's a world of difference between Eastern Michigan and UConn, though. I said this in the other thread, but UConn should be an attractive job for a guy like Narduzzi. They're essentially dropping down to a lesser conference which will allow UConn to be on the higher end of school resources for the conference. He wins there for two or three years and he can make the jump to a top-20 program. To me that's a better position to be in than taking a job like Purdue.
Needs, above, mentioned Louisville, which would also be a great job, but I don't see Strong leaving. He waited too long to be given a HC shot. I think he'll show great loyalty, and with them in the ACC next year, he may see it as an opportunity to become Frank Beamer of Louisville.
Good point about the differences between UConn and EMU. Edsall showed that you can win at UConn. Pasquiloni was a terrible hire, but I don't think it's a dead end job (though the new conference makes it more of a MAC level job than it was previously).
I mentioned Louisville because I don't know if Narduzzi would be competitive for jobs outside the East Coast/Midwest (say Washington if Sarkisian left for USC), just given the regional difference in recruiting. Louisville's the only one job in the Midwest or East I could imagine opening up via a coaching change. I do think you're right that he's likely reluctant to leave, given his long wait and Louisville's promotion to the ACC, but if USC or Texas came calling, he'd have to seriously consider those jobs.
It'll be better than MAC level. Pretty equal to MWC and possibly better. A bunch of teams with some recent serious success (Cincy, UConn, Houston, UCF, USF...). Not a great conference, but not the MAC where each schools vacillate between good and awful every couple years. You do well at UConn, and people will know. You won't have to jump from UConn to power conference bottom dweller, you should be able to jump straight to either a traditional power a bit down on its luck, or replace a successful coach in a power conference.
I see your point about Louisville. It would provide the Butch Jones track. Yeah, I don't really see any other potential openings like that this year. Except, perhaps, at MSU itself. If they somehow miraculously develop an offense and win the Legends, Dantonio could be looking at a better job.
As much as most peope don't like Ron English, his career trajectory could have lead to a better HC gig than Eastern Michigan, which is an auto dead end.
I don't know if it's an auto dead end. I'd argue that the standard for success at a program like Eastern is lower than other places. If you can take over at EMU and get them bowl eligible and even have them in competition for the MAC title, biggers programs are going to take notice. The Ron English tenure at Eastern only confirms what most of us probably suspected when he was a marginal part of the coaching succession conversation in 2008; that he wasn't big time college HC material.
English is a terrible head coach and a mediocre DC. That is his problem. You can win at EMU if you understand what wins in the MAC. Hint: It isn't Lloydball.
He runs a very different defense than Tressel ever ran at OSU, so I think Narduzzi is relatively independent.
Some coordinators don't do well as head coaches, but all the evidence to date says Narduzzi should get a shot. This year is shaping up to be an epic coaching transition year, so he may be able to get an okay program in a major conference once USC and Texas are sorted out.
I think it's still Dantonio's brain-child to the extent that he knew he was going to get a different level of player at MSU than he did at OSU, so he's going to maximize them by using a smaller playbook but make them very good at that thing. Dantonio was also a DBs guy, which is a big reason MSU is so successful at those positions.
Now, in game play calls, adjustments, and gameplans, I think it's Narduzzi with strong input from Dantonio. But I do think it's ultimately Narduzzi calling the shots.
From our experience, and we have now seen what seems to be two different examples, it seems a good head coach lets his DC do his thing.
But I dont agree with your assumption that physical prowess indicates cognitive prowess. As we have seen in Kovacs, less-physically gifted, lower-starred players come with the football smarts it takes to learn complicated playbooks (not that Kovacs did this, but we can assume smarts elevated him, and use this as a proxy), just as higher-starred players do.
I'm still surprised no one has lured him away with millions of dollars yet. The guy is as sure of a bet at DC as anyone in the profession.
I don't care if Narduzzi has head coaching potential. I just want him gone. Even though Dantonio is a defensive guy, Narduzzi has to have some value. I can't imagine MSU's defense being coached any better than it already is. If he leaves, it either would be neutral or bad for Sparty.
I think Narduzzi could probably be a successful coach at the right program, but the man doesn't scream "head coach material" to me. He seems very knowledgable about defense but doesn't seem very well-suited to the figurehead responsibilities a HC has to deal with. I wouldn't be surprised to see Narduzzi take a HC spot someplace, fail, and then return to a high-profile coordinator career path.
I'm either going lower ( MAC type school) to get some head coaching experience or I am staying in place. I doubt he's in a position to go USC, and I think that mid-tier jobs are vaccums. I suppose he could end up somewhere like Texas and it could work out for him, but I'd rather go lower to go higher than move laterally. One exception: Lets say Kirby Smart was to move on, and he was able to become Saban's new protege... not likely, but that's what I'd be looking for.
I agree here. He's not at the level USC is looking to maintain/get back to with whomever they hire. All other coaching jobs right now are uncertain. He could take something on the table right now, or wait for....nothing. UConn seems like a good fit and a smart move if he were offered the job.
Did we need a thread on this when the subject was first broached and being discussed in the UConn HC Pasqualoni fired thread right below?
I think he's a good DC, but I'm not totally sure I'd want that guy as my school's head coach. Him bragging about "60 minutes of unnecessary roughness" after Gholston's multiple incidents didn't speak that well of him. Also, I'm not sure what he brings to the table as far as recruiting goes.
Duzzi's best bet is to wait for Charlie Strong to bolt and take over at Louisville; that should happen this year. Program has a solid footing so then you just have to prove your chops for an offer from big time program in 2-4 years.
UConn is trash.
"UConn is trash." Wow, we go from underlying insecurity to overarching, blind arrogance in this thread. Perhaps you missed our most recent football game? UConn might be 'trash,' but no UM fan has earned the right to say so.
Our struggles in that game say nothing about their quality as a program. Allowing a team to crawl back from 4 turnovers says plenty, brother.
What exactly do fans do to "earn" the right to comment on other programs anyway? I'd like to know....
Nothing I said has anything to do with whether UConn almost beat us on their merits, or we almost lost to UConn due to our mistakes. The point was that performance on the field should have an influence on whether we trash another program. Our performance was abyssmal facing the same program you call 'trash.' Period. In the last few years, UM has performed better than UConn, but not enough for UM fans to, with any maturity, call UConn 'trash.' Statements such as that make us look bad as a fanbase much more than threads such as this do (a worry another post had above).
As to your last question, I dont know, um, perhaps start with beating a team handily before calling the team and larger program 'trash'?
You're cracking me up. You talk about viewing things "with maturity" while at the same time acting as if you're part of the team. I'll remind you that fans dont beat football teams, football teams do. Fans dont 'earn the right' to formulate opinions, we just do.
Yep, there is conflicting information when you look at UConn's track record not just this year but in previous years as well. If you have trouble resolving those conflicts, then deal with it however you see fit. I look at that record and conclude that the program is not one an A-list candidate should be lunging for. Or more succinctly: it's trash.
Feel free to disagree and I'd like to discuss it with you, but if all you've got is "we need to win pretty against a team before we assess the relative merits of that opportunity for an aspiring head coach" then I don't know what to tell you except for "no we don't." That's not actually what you said but I'm trying here...really really hard.
You act as if I made my comment in a vacuum.
We'll just agree to disagree. I admit I shouldn't tell a UM fan how to act, what to say, and so on.
We have a family friend who is close with MSU's AD and I asked him last year about Narduzzi and why he hasn't moved on to a head coaching job. Caveat: this guy never says a negative thing about MSU, ever, so this isn't a full picture of Narduzzi.
He said Pat is a very good defensive coach who is very bad around people he is not coaching. He will do coaching clinics (I've gotten to see one) and does fine addressing other coaches, but as for being the face of the program he's got the same problem as Rodriguez except more pronounced. He's just not the kind of guy who likes the spotlight.
He does like working with Dantonio, whom my dad's friend credits as the real brains behind that defense--it's not like without Narduzzi MSU's D wouldn't be good anymore--just like Saban's D hasn't struggled to deal with turnover in his staff. They've worked together a long time and probably will continue to do so until the money gets stupid--if Narduzzi goes to a smaller school that doesn't expect so much he'll do fine but the Pittsburgh job (which is what was on the table when we talked about it) was given as an example of the wrong kind of fit for him.
Interesting, although I'm not sure I see the RR comparison. Some guys, like Mattison, just prefer to be cordinators and controll one side of the ball instead of overseeing the whole program. If Dantonio is the brains behind the defense, that doesn't necessarily mean Narduzzi can't be successful running the same style somewhere else. I think that's how coaching trees get started.
Charisma. That's the RR comparison. RR had very little charisma and that damaged him at Michigan when things didn't go well. Think complete opposite of Jim Harbaugh or Lane Kiffen, or Bo or Brady for that matter. Social graces don't matter until you're the head coach, and then they matter a great deal.
I'm skeptical about the MSU D continuing on without Narduzzi. Dantonio didn't have defenses like this at Cincinnati. I think the vast majority of the credit has to go to Narduzzi
Well, Dantonio and Narduzzi were only at Cincy for 3 seasons before MSU came calling. They didn't have time to build a defensive unit the way they did in East Lansing. As some of the posters noted earlier, Dantonio's initial defensive units at MSU weren't all that good either, it took time for them to get to where they are now.
Even if you believe MD is the brains of the operation (which....good Lord), Narduzzi has been with him for a long time. He probably absorbed everything he needs to be a good defensive mind for the rest of his coaching career. I don't know if he's HC material, but he's as good a bet as any other Coordinator being considered as a head coach.
I would think the UConn job would be a perfect opportunity to cut his teeth as an HC. SC supporters probably wouldn't allow Pat Haden to take a flyer on a virtual no-name to people on the west coast. Although, I think whoever they hire would do themselves right by offering Narduzzi the DC job.
Narduzzi should get a shot somewhere given the success that he's had at MSU. My guess is his ceiling for a HC position is a mid-level job at a AQ conference. He's done well enough for an Illinois/ NC State/ Texas Tech sort of a job. He definitely shouldn't leave State for a dead end job like EMU.
I don't think that he has the national recognition to get a USC-type job right off the bat. I don't think that's a slam against Narduzzi, I just don't think those jobs go to coordinators very often. Not counting where a coordinator was internally promoted, the only recent example I can think of is Muschamp going from UT to Florida.
I post a question about the relative upsides of UM and MSU on the same day the Bob Wojohowski posits the same question in his column and the sycophantic mods can't take it down quick enough. Yet this stays up. NIce work mods. Whatevs. Free chitownblu!
I like the guy about as much as I liked my appendix after it burst, but dude can coach a defense.
That said, I'm not sure UCONN is the best spot for him. I'd think that, after his success with MSU, he'd be better off at a midwestern school--where he can recruit the same high schools he's currently recruiting for Dantonio.
and in the form of a face-to-face interview. Motivation will make up for lack of many of the Xs and Os associated with those that really don't understand how to win football games. If you can inspire an AD to hire you, you probably have the basics for nutruring that often overlooked quality. Something about Sparty's defense allows them to play far better than the collection of their personell. Whoever is responsible for this is definitely HC material. I'm guessing it's narduccis because the truly great ones motivate both sides of the los, not merely one.
I'd get out while I can, if I'm Narduzzi. This defense is solid but also looks to take a step down given the drop in recruiting, and if that offense continues to stumble people will start to forget about what he's done there while the team is going 7-6 or 8-5. He probably won't get a high-profile gig, but I could definitely see him winding up at a UConn and turning that program into a defensive juggernaut.
Not sure I follow - there has been a drop in recruiting at MSU? I thought they always got a few decent recruits, and many lower-teir recruits. Also, if the level of recruiting would impact his success, how would he be able to turn UConn into a defensive juggernaut? I agree with the underlying logic in the last prediction (in terms of UConn), in that he can do a lot with a little. But I'm not sure why this logic doesnt also apply to the ensuing future at MSU.