Where are they going to find the money? A MSU degree is good for what? A job at mcdonalds?
OT: MSU to Implement PSDs, and Mark Hollis Comes off as a Dick
Please don't say this in public and degrade the value of the Michigan fan base.
they're not only qualified to serve french fries; they're also qualified to grow them...and to milk things! woo state!
The comment about "other schools" is pure trolling. Hollis is playing to his base, nothing more, nothing less.
Unfortunately, "playing to the base" in EL always involves the lowest common denominator.
As for selling seat licenses, don't schools usually wait until they can sell out most of their games before asking for more money?
Bando is exactly right. I recommend treating Mark Hollis, and anything he says, like any other troll. A $310,000 troll.
Pure Trolling? Other side of the coin: The Michigan fan base reacting to not being mentioned by MSU's AD says something about us more than Hollis not mentioning us. Are we so entitled we need to be mentioned? I personally don't give two poops about what Hollis says, or doesn't say.
He should sweeten the deal by throwing in some MSU gear autographed by The Situation. That'll excite the base.
a roving band of football players in ski masks on your doorstep looking to beat people up.
i wouldn't say that he's being a dick so much as he seems kind of pathetic. it's one thing to roll out new fees with an explanation of their necessity, but another altogether to roll them out with a ton of hedging in case it turns out nobody is willing to pay them. this just has MSU's inferiority complex all over it.
Not to mention the whole "we should do this because all the other good teams do this" comes off as really week. You just man up and do it. If people think your product is worth it, they will pay. If they don't, you will have a lot of empty seats.
I don't understand the logic behind adding a PSD when you don't even sell out your stadium for most games. It's pretty clear he is striking while the iron is hot. This is his only chance to pitch the football program coming off of back to back 11 win seasons and a bowl win. The level of despiration is palpable.
It's no wonder why they don't sell out games - that stadium is a visual mess of Warsaw Pact-era concrete with superimposed brick lux boxes. Its not an appealing facility - this coming from a guy who thinks Ohio Stadium is actually an attractive crib. /covers head
The Horseshoe is an attractive stadium....
when it's empty.
Amen. With the huge wall that surrounds the field and keeps the restless natives held at bay, I've always thought Spartan Stadium is one of the worst environments, and one of the worst looking on television, in major college football.
I haven't been in Ohio Stadium in a bunch of years, but my general feeling on that is: cement factory covered in pigeon shit. Attractive at a distance maybe.
The inside of of Ohio Stadium has been chopped up and is little too quirky. I'm pretty sure its sightlines are piss-poor in many parts of the stadium (upper decks, underneath the overhangs, etc). But the outside of the stadium is intersting for its arches - it seems to present itself as an historic structure.
MSU looks like a place you'd see the Hungarian national soccer team play home friendlies..
Boise, ND, Nebraska, and OSU at home. Just as DB raised ticket prices this past year with our favorable home schedule instead of waiting for the 2012 season when the home schedule is a joke. If Hollis is going to try to pull this off now is probably the right time.
I prefer DantoBeano because he always walks around like he's surrounded by ppl who have just shat themselves...
Just a thought.
From the official pet peeves list...
Stupid, juvenile nicknames
Most relevant to Michigan fans is the infamous "scUM," but this idiocy affects many fan bases. Any "State" school is liable to find a dollar sign replacing the S in their abbreviation. In a rush to damn the NCAA people will completely disregard the fact that "NCAA" doesn't have any S's in it and go ahead and make the same swap anyway. Penn State gets called "State Penn" whenever a player gets drunk and frisky. Morons spell out "University of Spoiled Children" over and over again to display their disdain for USC.
"scUM and the University of Spoiled Children are playing in the Ro$e Bowl because the NC$$ needs the money."
This person is a moron who is under the erroneous impression that he is being funny, like that one uncle who tells the same joke every Thanksgiving for 30 years. This affliction is always, always a sign that you can safely ignore anything the person says, as they are either twelve or have Down's Syndrome.
Insert bullet travelling at extremely high velocity into skull.
Most common with universities best described as "technically not high school" or fanbases in areas where there is no pro alternative. Obviously, then, this is an absolute plague amongst OSU fans, and is rampant at MSU as well.
"tOSU" is permissible to use in a slightly disdainful fashion since OSU fans tend to use it themselves.
I thought only arrogant Michigan did this kind of stuff to its fans.
I just read that the MSU football team will be holding a car wash from 12-4 pm on this Sunday @ sisters of the poor agnostic church in lansing.
Maybe not "second-rate" in terms of their on-field performance, but certainly in regards to coach salary compensation, facilities, and attendence. When you look at the B1G, they are on the lower-to-middle end in all 3 categories. That is what I consider, second-rate.
I don't think Hollis was talking about on-field performance here. He was speaking about getting MSU up out of that lower tier by emulating the upper tier in terms of ticket sales and donations.
Sure, you can be Boise State and win without the big stadium and facilities, but Hollis knows that it becomes much easier to sustain winning seasons if he can afford the nice things that M/OSU/PSU/UNL have. That's what is being discussed here, not who won the wins/dollars spent ratio the past four years.
What "valuable resources" did Michigan basketball have from 1998-2007? We ran that program on a shoestring budget during that time. One anecdote: Tommy Amaker actually had to buy a VCR out of his own pocket when he came here.
Maybe now Phil Knight can use Dantonio as his new replacement "hero" and funnel in all the Nike money. Hopefully Dantonio knows the words to "wildthing".
Lol. This is the common RCMB logic, that ever since MSU wore pro-combat jerseys for one season, Phil Knight wants to turn them into his own personal project to create the "Oregon of the midwest." Forget the fact that Knight is an Oregon alumnus, and has no personal connection to MSU.
actually it was a rip on knight for his jopa eulogy. kinda off topic but timely.
Mark Hollis does not need any help painting himself dickish. He's mastered the art.
Well, Michigan's athletic department is entirely financially independent of the University, so it lives off of sports revenus, alumni donations, etc. It actually would probably be a poor choice to compare your athletic department to that one, unless you have the same structure, so I don't see him not listing Michigan as an issue.
However, where he screwed up was in comparing MSU to Alabama, Texas, and Ohio State. Those three teams have 3 times as many NATIONAL championships as MSU has CONFERENCE championships (although State does have 3 NCs of their own). Not to mention all of those teams have won national championships in the last decade (Well, OSU's was 2002, so the 2001 season, but you know what I mean). State has not had that success lately...
Not to mention the fact that State recruits nationally now.
They list national championships by regular season year, just like football. I remember not long after tOSU's championship, the Bucs won the Super Bowl.
Gotcha. Thanks. Good looking out.
But to some of the people replying, didn't we go back over the rules the other day and agree the way that Buckeye and Sparty fans refered to Michigan as "scUM" and our coach as "cHoke" and other stupid names that we as fans and supporters on this blog were above that nonsense? If I am wrong, please continue flaming with your little nicknames, but I think(maybe hope?) we are above childish name calling.
and we sometimes feel hit up for cash too
You can throw "sometimes" out of your statement.
By implementing a mandatory $500 year "donation' in order to stay on the season ticket wait list, he's squeezing out lower and middle class Michigan fans from being able to participate.
But at least he offers those who are unable to to buy season tickets the opportunity to purchase single games that high level Victors Club members don't want.... MAC schools, Division 1-II, bottom feeder B1G.... for only $70 per each. :/ In fact, be assured that it was by design that we saw the face value in ticket take a significant hike prior to this past season, in which ND, OSU, and Neb were all at home. It isn't going to feel all the great paying those prices for the upcoming home season.
Brandon's a savy business man. As a business owner myself, I have respect for him, but don't kid yourself. He and Hollis aren't all that different. Brandon is just more articulate and tactful.
I could be wrong, but I believe the $500 was a one time thing, as opposed to $500/yr.
Priority on Season Football Tickets First Team Level - $500 and above
- By donating $500 or more by January 31, 2012 you will be eligible to be offered season tickets.
- Season Football Tickets are based upon availability and are not guaranteed
- Available Season Football Tickets will be allocated based upon your priority point total
- Your donation provides a Michigan Student-Athlete with 37 hours of Academic Services which are committed toward supporting our student-athletes' leadership development and academic success
- By donating to The Victors Club you will earn valuable priority points
- All new season ticket holders will NOT pay a Preferred Seating Donation (PSD) in their first year. When you renew your season tickets in your second year, you will pay the PSD in your respective tiered location. For more information on PSDs click here.
No where does it say that you are guaranteed tickets at any time but I admit that I haven't looked into it in depth as I already have season tickets.
You have to donate at least $500 to be considered for season tickets. The more you donate the more consideration you get, so it is possible that you donate $500 and don't get tickets. If that happens you have to pay whatever the minimum donation is next year in order to he considered for season tickets. I presumes it will be $500 again next year but it was $15 last year so who knows?
as a businessman, I'm surprised you think Brandon knows what he's doing. The absolutely most important thing that a businessman has to do is to know their product. The fact that DB constantly cheapens the Michigan brand (in his everpresent quest to "expand the brand") only shows he doesn't know what he's trying to "sell." Every fingerprint Brandon leaves on the program lowers the value of the product.
I didn't say that I respect his model..... but the Athletic Department stays in the black and he keeps the regents happy.
Please give examples and proof that Brandon "cheapens" the Michigan brand. His department has certainly made decisions that have priced some out of the market (myself included) but I'm not sure how that "cheapens" the brand. It seems it does the opposite.
Rawk music, advertising on Crisler scoreboard (not sure if this was done prior to Brandon), entertaining the idea of a mascot..... and other moves that have infringed on tradition. For the record, the music doesn't bother me, and I'm ok with tasteful advertising if it keep ticket prices down. I'll never buy into a mascot except for unique situations..... Go Blue Kid's Club events, Mott's visitations..... as long as it never makes it through the gates of Michigan Stadium.
Brandon did not introduce most of those things. The piped-in music and PSDs started under Bill Martin. The advertising at Crisler has been there for a long time, going back to at least the 1990s. We've actually scaled back the advertising there in the last couple of years (all the signs above concourse entrances used to have ads as well).
Brandon did float the idea of a mascot, but decided against it after getting feedback from the fanbase. I don't see what the big deal is about that. I'm glad he listened to the fans. I don't think it's reasonable to expect an AD to get every initial decision correct, but if the fans give him negative feedback he should respond accordingly.
You can see First America and Coke signs in the background here, so it's been that way in Crisler for quite a while.
I think people are too hard on Dave Brandon. The Arby's ads got a little too out of hand for my taste, but hey, he's doing alright.
The fact that DB constantly cheapens the Michigan brand (in his everpresent quest to "expand the brand") only shows he doesn't know what he's trying to "sell."
That would be an opinion, not a fact. The thing that many here are reluctant to acknowledge is that Brandon can't just cater to the hardcore freaks like us. He has to reach out to the average fan - the guy who buys tickets but doesn't have a prospective 2014 depth chart drawn up. The average fan has different desires than the hardcore freak. The average fan loves "events." He buys the UTL jerseys, sings along to "Don't Stop Believing" and loves to wave pom-poms. There are a lot more of him than there are hardcore types. He ultimately determines whether or not our athletic department makes money (which in turn affects the level of financial support our athletic programs can get).
Have they been selling out their football games? I still see large swaths of empty seats in the upper levels.
edit: sorry if duplicative - I just read a similar comment above. *Neg* away..
Um...your wrong. Us season ticket holders have to make a "voluntary" tax deductable donation each and every year to the Victors Club based upon the value of our season tickets. I have six tickets (2 in section 2 and 4 in section 3) and I pay $1,400/year for the priviledge of buying those tickets.
MSU is just late to the party, that's all.
Edit - sorry - didn't see the reference was to the waiting list. Yes, you are correct there. My bad.
Oh, just come out and say it, Hollis.
"We wish we were Michigan, so please give us more money."
There's no need to dance around the real issue here: MSU's crippling inferiority complex.
I suspect Hollis is going to find out from the fans rather quickly that Statefans are not
like Alabama, LSU, OSU and Michigan fans. There will be strenuous push back on this, and if he goes forward, fewer fans in the stands, and a lot of bitching at him when the team wins fewer than 10 games.
A lot of you are taking the UM base for granted. You cannot simultaneously call msu second rate, and then lol when they ask alumni for donation. The clearly do not have the history or financial base (state funding or otherwise) that um does. So they need to reach out.
No reason to take shots at that, it is just math and common sense. Just because the um base does things differently doesn't mean it is right or wrong in comparison.
Who gives a shit? Do we have to comment on them every time they do something? "OMG, can you believe they did (something)? God they wish they were Michigan. They are such assholes! Lil bro, lil bro, lil bro, sparty, sparty, Dantonio, jackass"
If Penn State has gone from 107k to 104k to 101k the past three years because of a new seating license program, I can only imagine what will happen at MSU.
I look forward to seeing about 60k at Spartan Stadium in the near future. Thanks, Hollis, more tickets for me.
Triple post. HOKE STARE.
He isn't coming across as a dick. He is swinging for the fence and trying to build an elite program, plain and simple. Usually Spartys arent smart enough for that. You should be worried about Hollis.
But I don't get what Hollis is doing that makes this worthy of ridicule. He's simply confronting the fact that for pretty much all BCS programs the football team is the lifeblood of the athletic department and that after the two best seasons in a long time, he's trying to raise more revenue. I don't see why we as Michigan fans: (a) care or (b) think that it's a good excuse to call Hollis a dick or to make more jokes about Dantonio.
I think that Hollis has done a pretty good job at State. Most of his hires have worked out. He's done some interesting things to raise the profile of their programs (such as the Carrier Classic or whatever they called it) and now he's trying to increase revenue to continue building their program. Good for him.
Something like Dantonio calling out Hecklinski is interesting but only because it involves Michigan. I don't care what State does, but think that the obsession of some fans with the whole "little brother" and "inferiority complex" thing isn't needed. This is Michigan fergoshsakes. We don't need to stoop to that level.
This is no different than what DB did prior to last season. Michigan had ND and OSU at home, as well as the kick off game against Nebraska. Brandon saw it as an opportunity to raise the ticket prices.
MSU has home games against Boise State, ND, OSU, and Nebraska, as well as a homecoming game against Iowa. This is a phenomenal home schedule by any standard. Throw in MSU's recent success and there isn't going to be a better time to raise prices.
FYI, their PSD is slightly higher than Michigan's, but their season ticket price for 7 games, before donation, is only $308 which is still very reasonable.
I don't consider raising ticket prices or implementing PSDs to be "dickish" behavior. I found that more in the way he came across by the quotes in the article. He basically told the fanbase that the only way to support the program was by giving more money. It came off as significantly entitled, especially considering their fanbase doesn't even make it a priority to attend their games in the first place.
While i agree we dont need a post everytime one of our rivals does something, this strikes me as different. Only for the reason that it speaks to a culture change in EL. A couple good seasons, and they wanna play with the big dogs. Thats all well and good but honestly their fan base sucks. Season ticket holders? Why? The fans who go to games here and there will be turned off. You make MORE money from doing well Mark!!!
I dont agree with everthing DB does either. The premuim games this year at 85 a piece to start were salty. I understand the lights, scoreboards, renovation all cost money but dont tell me A2 or EL havent done well from successes in other revenue generating areas. Jerseys, hats, bowl game checks (which doesnt cost you for success it actually pays you Mark). I love walking into the big house, havent missed an opener in 10 years, always go to as many games as possible, but lets not sit here and say.. "how could msu ever think to do this" when we have been put through some big changes lately as well.
Side note: I really get uneasy when I hear DB say he isnt going to use the lights for special games every year, and maybe not even once a year. Not sure if he was just playing them down, but to ME, they are a big deal. Especially if you raise ticket prices to help pay for them I want then USED!
Games don't have to be played at night for the lights to go on. They are used for pretty much all 3:30 games. Before we installed them, we used to have to ask ABC to bring in portable lights for those games.
Also, the thing that has ADs everywhere scrambling to raise revenue is the cost of scholarships. We're one of the most expensive public universities in the country to attend, which means that covering the cost of 300 or so athletic scholarships/room and board runs into the eight-figure range.
Mark Hollis comes off as a dick because he is. He has a bigger ego then Kanye when it comes to anything Michigan related. Almost anytime Michigan does something better then MSU you can find an example of him trying to one up Michigan; The Big Chill comments, his Twitter comments, the new scoreboards and the list goes on.
I am an evil vindictive person, but the financial situation at MSU makes me smile. They had to raise tuition 9% just to keep their doors open. They haven't touched Breslin since they added some court space in 2001. And Magic Johnson isn't getting any younger. Its been a while since Izzo has put a player in the NBA, and this economy isn't getting better any time soon.
The East Lansing Walmart is already stocking up on green and white pom poms, which will be placed on vacant seats in spartan stadium. These pom poms will henceforth be referred to as "Walmart Spartans", and may their numbers soar to the heavens.
I am an evil vindictive person. But damned if it isn't great to be a Michigan Wolverine.
are, when you amortize the cost of the "donations," at least BCS game priced. That said, a lot of the aspects of the program we fans value cost money, and the competition we are up against gets stiffer every year (yes, that IS what she said). Sparty just trying to keep up with Big Brother on this one; the tone of his message is not the upbeat, positive tone I think most would try and take when making this significant an ask of their fans.
Fact that they don't sell out is only marginally relevant; this is directed at alumi sitting between the 20s, and those are always sold, even if not always occupied. We've got some of that going on as well for those MAC-fests where we announce 110K.
Coming at this from a Spartan grad perspective, nearly everything you said is correct with regard to the letter that Hollis sent out. The one thing I will correct you on is that PSL's have existed between the goal lines (approx) since about 2005 or so (IIRC). My big issue with this is the timing of it all. Yes, now is the time due to an uptick in the program, but perhaps the university would be better served if we went to a Rose Bowl more than once in a generation and a half (One RB appearance since the 60's). You then have to consider that nearly all parking on campus requires a donation to purchase a parking pass. This again ups the cost of the tickets. My four MSU tickets will cost me in total (tickets + PSL+parking donation+Parking) over $2300 this year. FTR, my four UM tickets will cost me about $2200. The way I see it, build the program, sustain it, then ask for more money. At that point, you will get it.
Those of you on here poking the bear about not selling out the home games...Look at it this way. How many sellouts did UM have in the late 60's-early 70's? That is where the MSU program is right now. Like it or not, they have turned the corner and will not (hopefully) return to their old ways. You also have to remember that the press largely ignored MSU for about 20 or so years which also resulted an the downturn in interest. If you constantly hear about how great something is (and UM was from about 75-??) people will naturally want to watch those games. When I was growing up in the 80's you couldn't even get an MSU game on the radio unless we were playing UM...and then I was at that game. Remember, its easy to back a winner...Look no further than the Pistons.
The one thing I will correct you on is that PSL's have existed between the goal lines (approx) since about 2005 or so (IIRC).
That's what I thought, too. But I don't see it mentioned.
I can tell you that I would have had a very hard time in resisting the temptation to write something like, "While noticeably absent from Hollis' remarks about other programs, the University of Michigan has had similar preferred seating donation requirements dating back to 2003..."