OT: Most snakebit B1G football program
Which Big Ten football program do you think is the most snakebit and why?
Criteria for being snakebit is some general combination of:
-Just can't do anything right
-Unlucky in general
-Chokes in crucial moments
-Sucks overall
Who ya got? Minnesota, Northwestern, Purdue, Indiana, Iowa, MSU?
(Maryland and Rutgers discussion also welcomed.)
Well over the past two years, we've had a season-ending injury to our best defensive player, another near season-ending injury to our best defensive player, and an injury to our record-setting QB in the midst of the most critical conference stretch. But I'd still have to go with Iowa.
I'm guessing this is Ghost of Yost's new account?
Was old Yost around here again? I keep tellin him to leave everyone alone. He gets a little worked up when I mention my superior winning percentage.
Among the choices given, I would have to say Indiana from a historic standpoint anyway, with perhaps Northwestern as a close second if history is the measure. They definitely fit the last criteria, and if we use the general definition of "inability to succeed", that is basically their running theme. Their in-state neighbors - Purdue and Notre Dame - have experienced more historic success by a considerable margin (especially ND, of course).
First and foremost, you would be talking then about a program whose last coach to post an above .500 record who also stayed for multiple seasons was Bo McMillin (1934-1947). Further, the last time Indiana won any portion of a Big Ten championship was in 1967 in what would now seem like a strange three-way tie with Purdue and Minnesota. That might be the longest drought of any program presently in the Big Ten.
In all of their history, they have been to 9 bowl games, as I recall, and posted a 3-6 record. While that isn't the worst winning percentage among Big Ten teams for their cumulative bowl history (this belongs to Northwestern), it is the fewest bowl appearances for a Big Ten team (second worst is also Northwestern). From an overall performance standpoint, the Hoosier also sport the worst cumulative record in the Big Ten - 453-636, or a 0.419 win percentage. Oddly enough, the second worst historic record belongs to Northwestern.
Indiana is historically awful, but I wouldn't call them snakebit. There isn't any bad luck there. They just suck.
My personal vote is for the Minnesota Goofers. Although honestly it's a tie between them and Purdue.
Purdue just gets killed by injuries every year, and they can't ever get all the way to the mountain top. Even that year that they played in the Rose Bowl with Drew Brees, they fell short. Furthermore, does Purdue have any other claim to fame besides Drew Brees? Any at all? Nah.
Of course, at least Purdue made it to the Rose Bowl sometime in the last 50 years. Minnesota hasn't sniffed a conference title in half a century, largely because their program became apathetic and sucky which led to an eternal cycle of apathy and suckage.
So I'm going to go with Minnesota. Mostly because of this:
Academic reputation? what academic reputation? Also, tremendous tradition and history in football?
Yeah, a tremendous tradition and history of losing. That's a lovely fake national championship trophy behind you, Tim.
Eh you could throw in Mike Alstott and Rod Woodson, but yeah that's about it.
Might want to do your homework on Minnesota.
First of all, they actually do have a very solid academic reputation.
Second of all, that isn't a fake NC trophy. Teams have the option of getting new trophies to match the new Coaches' Poll trophies if they won championships in the past, and it looks like Minnesota has done so. Looks like that's for their '60 NC. So, not fake.
It's essentially fake. Even if they did what you said, it's still giving the perception that they have won a national championship in the BCS era--hell, even in the Coaches' Poll era. And that's just complete and utter bullshit that Brewster is trying to sell. "Play 4 Minnesota! We HAZ just as much tradition as Mich, Texas, or OSU!!!!!!!!"
As for the academic reputation, what, are you a Minneapolis resident or something?
No one cares about Minnesota outside of Minnesota. I'm in Cali, and here Michigan, Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, etc. are all hugely respected as the top schools in the nation. Minnesota... is not.
Not a word.
Case in point:
"Tremendous academic reputation." False: Minnesota is not highly regarded outside the state of Minnesota. They're no Harvard and certainly no Michigan. Not even close.
"One of the Top 3 Leading Public Institutions in the world today." False: In the world, Minnesota doesn't even crack the Top 100.
"Outstanding group of professors on this campus." False: Well, true if you mean outstanding warrants. (jk)
"Tremendous tradition and history in football." Massively False: Minnesota's winning percentage is .571. Their bowl record is 5-10, because in their entire history they've only played in 15 bowl games.
"6 national championships; 18 Big Ten championships." False: Minnesota has something like 14 Big Ten championships total, all of which came before 1962. Also four of their 'claimed' national titles came with as many as three losses those seasons. 8-3? NATIONAL CHAMPS!
"We have as fine a tradition as anyone in America today." Massively False: Minnesota has a total of 661 wins. Michigan has 903. Texas has 867. As fine as anyone in America? Give me a fucking break.
"TCF Bank Stadium, the finest brand new on-campus facility in America." Debatable, but ultimatley False: TCF Bank Stadium is a toilet. It might be a shiny toilet, but it's still a toilet.
"Our fans will enjoy something on a Saturday afternoon." False: Not a win.
"I want little kids to dream about being a Minnesota Golden Gopher. To come to TCF Bank Stadium, have a great day, watch a great Gopher victory, and then that night, go home, lay down, and dream about being a Minnesota Golden Gopher." False: Not happening.
"There's a tremedous commitment at the University of Minnesota to win." False: Someone didn't tell their players.
Insanely bitter. WHY DIDN'T YOU ACCEPT ME, O MINNESOTA? WHY WAS I FORCED TO ATTEND LOWLY MICHIGAN WHEN I COULD HAVE ATTENDED MINNESOTA, THE OTHER HARVARD OF THE WEST?
does Purdue have any other claim to fame besides Drew Brees?
Well, there was this gentleman named "Bob Griese" back in the day.
And they have the Purdue Golden girls ... and that big-ass drum.
Oh ... and way back in the day my grandfather was dean of microbiology there*. :-)
* * *
The OP criteria was a bit mixed. In terms of recent bad-luck, then Purdue wins the prize.
In terms of historic cellar-dwelling, then probably Indiana. I'd say Northwestern, but their recent half-decentness erases a lot of my memory of the past.
But in terms of unmet potential, then it's Iowa.
* True story ... he was a professor of microbiology and for a period was dean. His research focused on bacteria capable of surving high temperatures, such as are found in ocean vents. My mother and her sister (my aunt) attended Purdue; my other aunt attended IU.
Not really sure where you are going here. You could say RR was "snakebitten," in that off-field issues clouded a couple seasons, and his teams went into late season DEATHSPIRAL, but that is like a small downpayment on what it takes to be a contender for this crown.
Sparty. Indiana, Purdue, Minneha-ha all do not have the talent, or the pretensions, to be a football challenger. But Sparty does. Of all the teams considered a "contender" for the B1G football title coming into next year, only Sparty has never been to a BCS bowl. Of all teams that have been better than .500 in conference of late, Sparty has the longest Rose Bowl drought, longer even than Northwestern, Illinois, or Purdue (only Indiana and Minnesota have longer droughts).
The mediocrity on the field is just part of an overall theme. They are just as classless as Ohio, but with far less to show for it. Sparty also has a persecution complex that puts Ohio's to shame--every time SpartyFAIL, it's always because of a blown call, etc.
Losering is an art. It takes more than just getting beat a lot, or perenially falling short of expectations. There is an accursed element to Sparty, that is in other words they are "snakebitten."
They come off of two of the best years in their history and still don't get a BCS game. Starting next year they will be in the same division with us, osu and PSU. Not to mention NU and Iowa. The window is closing rapidly.
NU and Iowa are cross divisional games. I didnt make that clear
The two times the Gophers have come close in the previous 30 years (after tying Indiana for the title in the late 60s, which is evidence itself of being snake bitten) were in 1999 and 2003. In 1999, the Gophers finished 5-3 in the Big Ten, losing to Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Purdue. However, Wisconsin won the Big Ten that year at 7-1 and Michigan finished 6-2 (losing to Staee and Illinois - I'm still pissed about those games). The Gophers played Wisconsin in the Metrodome that year and had a 3 point fourth quarter lead when Wisky hit a tying field goal. In OT, the Gophers got picked off and the Badgers won on a field goal 20-17. Had the Gophers who that game, they would have finished in a three-way tie at 6-2, and they would have gone to the Rose Bowl due to the tiebreaker which went to the team with the longest Rose Bowl drought. They ended up falling all the way to the Sun Bowl, where they lost on a Joey Harrington fourth and 16 completion (which set up the winning score - again, this could also qualify as its own evidence).
In 2003, it was very simple. They blew the 21 point lead to us in the Metrodome. Win that game, they finish in a four-way tie for the Big Ten at 6-2 and go to the Rose Bowl based on the longest drought tiebreaker.
The Gophers also have a long history of blowing large leads - 20+ point second half leads in bowl games to Texas Tech and NC State, the Wisconsin game where they got a punt blocked in the final 20 second returned for a TD, the Purdue game where Purdue went 70 yards in 8 seconds for a FG, the Ohio State game where the Gophers blew a 31-3 halftime lead, the Northwestern Hail Mary, the Northwestern pick 6 a few years ago...and on, and on, and on.
Again, it's Minnesota, and it's not close. I am a Michigan graduate, but my dad is a Minnesota alum. I honestly feel we cannot begin to complain about our lot in football because it could be A LOT worse.
Used to be a great football program, but it's been decades since they've done anything worth mentioning on the football field.
What about Zazzles?
Chicago is 43-50 with two conference championships.
Indiana is 38-74 with zero conference championships.
I think it comes down to Purdue or Minnesota, and while both are the definition of mediocrity, I'm going to have to give the nod to Minnesota. Purdue can at least play the Drew Brees card and had success, relatively speaking, under Tiller. Minnesota has nothing to cling on to. It hasn't won a conference title, much less a national title, in decades, has an apathetic fan base, gets decimated by its rivals every year, and over the years, has become synonymous with shooting itself in the foot and blowing big leads in crucial games. Top it all off with a former jackass of a coach in Brewster that starts predicting Rose Bowls before he actually accomplishes anything. Minnesota, on the whole, is the definition of a program that can't do anything right and just flat out sucks in every way possible. Maybe Kill will bring them to respectability, but I'm not holding my breath on it.
Indiana is a huge choice here.
Seriously unlucky as they've had more than their fair share of better players flirt with going there only to not make it there. Gunner Keil, while not lighting anything up anywhere at this point, had a flirtation with IU where I believe his older brother was playing.
They also seem to choke away games they could win, such as last year against MSU when they were up big only to give up 2 4Q TDs. They also could have beaten Ball St and Navy to end up with 7 wins and a bowl game instead of 4.
They've been hurt by devastating injuries as well.
And yes, a whole lot of suck to go with all of that. Every other B1G program has done at least something of note that I can think of, but IU has just been scary bad and I've never felt like they had any chance to get up off the mat. Ever.
I think the fact that I forgot to mention Illinois in the OP kind of proves how forgettable they are.
considering the instate talent, resources at their disposal, and quality academics, how can they be so bad to mediocre so often?
They seem to show glimpses of potential. Zooker recruited Illinois ok didn't he? And I think they recruit Illinois pretty well for basketball. I have no explanation for why every high schooler to ever come from Chicago has apparently decided to flee Illinois
Big overachievers obviously is Nebraska with a small recruiting base but they always get talent in and win.
but they can't even do that well.
While the most snakebitten school in the B1G is certainly debatable, I think we can all agree on which school has had a less-than-favorable relationship with a different type of reptile.
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/urban-meyer-describes-woody-hayes-doing-weird-things-turtle
I would definitely go with MSU over Indiana or Minnesota because it never really feels like those teams can be better than average at any given time. MSU on the other hand will make you stop and look for a second and wonder if they've turned the corner before plummeting back into the deep dark abyss known as mediocrity. Lol Sparty
Indiana. Their football team is so irrelevent that the admissions department actually offers free tickets to thousands of potential students for B1G conference games. I went to a game for free last year, the Iowa game (I could've gone to the Wisconsin game or the MSU game, but I figured Iowa would be a better game since both teams are bad). IU won and it was a good game, but the stadium was half empty and the apathy was palpable. It is going to be extroardinarily difficult for IU to ever be relevent in football with the program receiving no support at all.