OT: Most snakebit B1G football program
As Dusty Rhodes would say..."That's hard times, Daddy!"
Thanks to Jim Crockett Promotions, looking forward to Starcade '85.
Starrcade '85 was good. But i'll take Starrcade '86 Night of the Skywalkers
"I've wined and dined with kings and queens. I've slept in alleyways and dined on pork and beans."
THATHS HAAAAD TEIMES DADDEH!
Well, that's only true if by "snakebitten" you mean "frustrated by bad luck and random misfortune despite hard work and sound decision-making." But so far as I know, Michigan hasn't had a single player or coach literally bitten by a snake.
The finished quilt has about twice as many faces on it!
Does putting up with Tim Brewster for 4 years constitute a snakebite for Minnesota?
Also - Maryland's QB situation last year certainly sounds like a snakebite.
The correct answer is Minnesota. Firing Glen Mason. Hiring career TE coach Tim Brewster. Firing Tim Brewster and putting Jerry Kill on the sidelines, even though his unfortunate health situation takes him from the sidelines on a consistent basis.
Putting up with the Metrodome for about two decades too long.
Recruiting players to Siberia, selling them on the interconnecting tunnels and heated walkways that will take them from class to class.
Having two good seasons since the New Deal. A winning streak against exactly three Big 10 opponents, with two of those being at one game. Exactly one coach in the last forty years who left the school with a winning record.
They can't do anything right.
I'd also add that you can't be truly snake-bitten unless you've had some prior success to measure against how far you've fallen.
Minnesota had 3 straight national championships in the 30's, 1 in 1960.
They are the other half of one of the oldest, most well known college football rivalries.
look at them now.
Every year they loose the little brown jug just reminds them of the history they'll likely never revisit.
I'd also say they have the capability to be so much better than they are: they have Minneapolis to draw from, a large endowment, campus, & enrollment.
They should be head to head with Iowa & Wisconsin every year . . . but they're not.
They are truly East Dakota.
If anyone dare say any team other than Iowa on this thread, it will cause the Hawkeyes to be further smited by the AIRBHG...
I think you could make an argument for Perry the ACL-ephant and his decimation of any and all ligaments of Purdue players. Those two programs (Iowa and Purdue) seem to have had REALLY bad luck re: injuries over the last few years.
But Iowa's RB woes do not stop at injuries, so I think they win.
AIRBHG may turn his vengeful eye upon us and smite our beloved running corps. Spare us your wrath might AIRBHG!!!
First off, they share a below average talent football state with another big ten school and notre dame. Corso was doing a decent job in the late 70s and was probably about to make it big before he got Anthony cartered. After that, bill Mallory had them in a few bowls, moderate success, a season where they finish 2nd in ten conference after beating both uM and OsU in the same year. They had one of the better rbs in the country for three years in anthony thompson. After that, they finally get their guy in local hero terry heoppner who gets them to a bowl in three years and them succumbs to cancer. It is unlikely they can be a top notch football school but getting to middle of the pack respectability has pretty much eluded them.
Indiana is not snakebitten. Rather, by some karmic glitch, their football program is made to suffer for the injustices perpetrated in IU's favor by basketball officials at Assembly Hall.
You can't blame Indiana's woes on the football field on being snakebitten when they have an athletic department that is clearly not interested in having a football program that is good at playing football.
They seem to always CHOKE after starting out 4-0 or 5-0
I don't think that's choking. They usually have an easy OOC schedule and then start losing in conference play since the teams are much better.
1. Iowa with AIRBHG
2. Marylands QB fiasco where their 2nd string MLB ended up under center for a few games.
3. IU in general.
Don't forget about the Rhabdomyolysis incident.
Maryland, imagine if Bolden was our starting QB at one point last season.
That 3OT choke against Auburn a few years back maybe?
Google "Randy Walker."
Purdue- Purdue has had some tough luck with injuries, it's hard to win football games when your players all have blown out knees.
They've also been really lucky by their WR's being granted like 6,7 and even 8 years of eligibility without ever being injured. I.E. Stubblefield, Standeford, Daniels and Dorien Bryant to name names.
I second Purdue. The closest Purdue has been to having a great year was 2004 when Kyle Orton led them to a #3 ranking only to see them blow it against Wisconsin and crap the bed the rest of the season. Since then Purdue has had one issue after another with their QB's (arrests/Blown ACL's/Academic DQ's).
You make a fair point. But when you hire Danny Hope, you deserve what you get--and that includes flukey bad things from before he was the coach.
Purdue isn't snakebitten, just snake oiled. /wizard hat
Indiana fits the OP's #4 because, well, they are historically the doormat of the BIG. Sparty fits the criteria of #'s 1,2 and 3. Zero Rose Bowls since I believe the '87-88 season and zero BCS appearances since it's inception in '98 just makes you wonder if those little green guys will ever get over the hump. Somehow, a few years back when MSU played Wisconsin in the BIG championship game I got stuck at a house party with all Spartys. That last play where that idiot ran into the punter to give the Badgers the Rose Bowl birth brought a giant smile to my face and the priceless look of agony throughout a room of 8-10 gloomy Spartys. My (bullshit) line of reasoning to one of my buddy's still recovering from the curse? "A badger is a Wolverine's cousin."
Tough to say. Every team goes through stages where they just can't seem to get it right, Michigan among them. If you go back far enough, you could probably make a case for any B1G team.
2008 - 2010?
When pretty much all other programs would be willing to switch with you, it's hard to argue you've been snake bitten. I'd Choo-Choo-choose the boiler makers. After a small amount of success under tiller they fell for the old "all guys in Indiana with mustaches are the same" trick and had to deal with Perry and a decade of being a preseason dark horse who always ends fighting for bowl eligibility. I am glad I am not one of their fans.
I should have been a little more specific. You could make a case for any team in the B1G, but the quality of the case is up for debate.
If I had to pick, I'd say MSU. I know they've had some success, but they always seem to sink back to obscurity. To come close to making it to the next level but never do so must be tough.
Iowa, definitely Iowa. Although every game against us seems to get interesting.
Except last year's game.
I still have to go with MSU. They regularly come to the brink of relevance before completely crapping it away. Even just recently they negated their awesome punt return to the 1 yd line in the Big Ten Championship Game by roughing the punter; Wisconsin was able to run the clock out from there.
I'm not sure 'snakebit' is the right term for them, they just cannot get it completely together
I think it's perfectly reasonable to call them 'snakebit'
I mean, if you're going to lay in the weeds, it's only a matter of time before a snake comes along.
Come on, MSU has it more together than a team like Illinois that somehow falls into a major bowl every 7 years and then gets destroyed. In terms of not getting it completely together, MSU's recent success is better than Illinois or Minnesota's last 30 years.
I'm guessing this is Ghost of Yost's new account?
Among the choices given, I would have to say Indiana from a historic standpoint anyway, with perhaps Northwestern as a close second if history is the measure. They definitely fit the last criteria, and if we use the general definition of "inability to succeed", that is basically their running theme. Their in-state neighbors - Purdue and Notre Dame - have experienced more historic success by a considerable margin (especially ND, of course).
First and foremost, you would be talking then about a program whose last coach to post an above .500 record who also stayed for multiple seasons was Bo McMillin (1934-1947). Further, the last time Indiana won any portion of a Big Ten championship was in 1967 in what would now seem like a strange three-way tie with Purdue and Minnesota. That might be the longest drought of any program presently in the Big Ten.
In all of their history, they have been to 9 bowl games, as I recall, and posted a 3-6 record. While that isn't the worst winning percentage among Big Ten teams for their cumulative bowl history (this belongs to Northwestern), it is the fewest bowl appearances for a Big Ten team (second worst is also Northwestern). From an overall performance standpoint, the Hoosier also sport the worst cumulative record in the Big Ten - 453-636, or a 0.419 win percentage. Oddly enough, the second worst historic record belongs to Northwestern.
My personal vote is for the Minnesota Goofers. Although honestly it's a tie between them and Purdue.
Purdue just gets killed by injuries every year, and they can't ever get all the way to the mountain top. Even that year that they played in the Rose Bowl with Drew Brees, they fell short. Furthermore, does Purdue have any other claim to fame besides Drew Brees? Any at all? Nah.
Of course, at least Purdue made it to the Rose Bowl sometime in the last 50 years. Minnesota hasn't sniffed a conference title in half a century, largely because their program became apathetic and sucky which led to an eternal cycle of apathy and suckage.
So I'm going to go with Minnesota. Mostly because of this:
Academic reputation? what academic reputation? Also, tremendous tradition and history in football?
Yeah, a tremendous tradition and history of losing. That's a lovely fake national championship trophy behind you, Tim.
Might want to do your homework on Minnesota.
First of all, they actually do have a very solid academic reputation.
Second of all, that isn't a fake NC trophy. Teams have the option of getting new trophies to match the new Coaches' Poll trophies if they won championships in the past, and it looks like Minnesota has done so. Looks like that's for their '60 NC. So, not fake.
It's essentially fake. Even if they did what you said, it's still giving the perception that they have won a national championship in the BCS era--hell, even in the Coaches' Poll era. And that's just complete and utter bullshit that Brewster is trying to sell. "Play 4 Minnesota! We HAZ just as much tradition as Mich, Texas, or OSU!!!!!!!!"
As for the academic reputation, what, are you a Minneapolis resident or something?
No one cares about Minnesota outside of Minnesota. I'm in Cali, and here Michigan, Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, etc. are all hugely respected as the top schools in the nation. Minnesota... is not.
Not a word.
Case in point:
"Tremendous academic reputation." False: Minnesota is not highly regarded outside the state of Minnesota. They're no Harvard and certainly no Michigan. Not even close.
"One of the Top 3 Leading Public Institutions in the world today." False: In the world, Minnesota doesn't even crack the Top 100.
"Outstanding group of professors on this campus." False: Well, true if you mean outstanding warrants. (jk)
"Tremendous tradition and history in football." Massively False: Minnesota's winning percentage is .571. Their bowl record is 5-10, because in their entire history they've only played in 15 bowl games.
"6 national championships; 18 Big Ten championships." False: Minnesota has something like 14 Big Ten championships total, all of which came before 1962. Also four of their 'claimed' national titles came with as many as three losses those seasons. 8-3? NATIONAL CHAMPS!
"We have as fine a tradition as anyone in America today." Massively False: Minnesota has a total of 661 wins. Michigan has 903. Texas has 867. As fine as anyone in America? Give me a fucking break.
"TCF Bank Stadium, the finest brand new on-campus facility in America." Debatable, but ultimatley False: TCF Bank Stadium is a toilet. It might be a shiny toilet, but it's still a toilet.
"Our fans will enjoy something on a Saturday afternoon." False: Not a win.
"I want little kids to dream about being a Minnesota Golden Gopher. To come to TCF Bank Stadium, have a great day, watch a great Gopher victory, and then that night, go home, lay down, and dream about being a Minnesota Golden Gopher." False: Not happening.
"There's a tremedous commitment at the University of Minnesota to win." False: Someone didn't tell their players.
I take it you're still bitter about that rejection letter from the University of Minnesota?
Insanely bitter. WHY DIDN'T YOU ACCEPT ME, O MINNESOTA? WHY WAS I FORCED TO ATTEND LOWLY MICHIGAN WHEN I COULD HAVE ATTENDED MINNESOTA, THE OTHER HARVARD OF THE WEST?
does Purdue have any other claim to fame besides Drew Brees?
Well, there was this gentleman named "Bob Griese" back in the day.
And they have the Purdue Golden girls ... and that big-ass drum.
Oh ... and way back in the day my grandfather was dean of microbiology there*. :-)
* * *
The OP criteria was a bit mixed. In terms of recent bad-luck, then Purdue wins the prize.
In terms of historic cellar-dwelling, then probably Indiana. I'd say Northwestern, but their recent half-decentness erases a lot of my memory of the past.
But in terms of unmet potential, then it's Iowa.
* True story ... he was a professor of microbiology and for a period was dean. His research focused on bacteria capable of surving high temperatures, such as are found in ocean vents. My mother and her sister (my aunt) attended Purdue; my other aunt attended IU.
Not really sure where you are going here. You could say RR was "snakebitten," in that off-field issues clouded a couple seasons, and his teams went into late season DEATHSPIRAL, but that is like a small downpayment on what it takes to be a contender for this crown.
Sparty. Indiana, Purdue, Minneha-ha all do not have the talent, or the pretensions, to be a football challenger. But Sparty does. Of all the teams considered a "contender" for the B1G football title coming into next year, only Sparty has never been to a BCS bowl. Of all teams that have been better than .500 in conference of late, Sparty has the longest Rose Bowl drought, longer even than Northwestern, Illinois, or Purdue (only Indiana and Minnesota have longer droughts).
The mediocrity on the field is just part of an overall theme. They are just as classless as Ohio, but with far less to show for it. Sparty also has a persecution complex that puts Ohio's to shame--every time SpartyFAIL, it's always because of a blown call, etc.
Losering is an art. It takes more than just getting beat a lot, or perenially falling short of expectations. There is an accursed element to Sparty, that is in other words they are "snakebitten."
They come off of two of the best years in their history and still don't get a BCS game. Starting next year they will be in the same division with us, osu and PSU. Not to mention NU and Iowa. The window is closing rapidly.
NU and Iowa are cross divisional games. I didnt make that clear
Minnesota has not been to the Rose Bowl since 1961 - the longest streak in the Big Ten.
The two times the Gophers have come close in the previous 30 years (after tying Indiana for the title in the late 60s, which is evidence itself of being snake bitten) were in 1999 and 2003. In 1999, the Gophers finished 5-3 in the Big Ten, losing to Wisconsin, Ohio State, and Purdue. However, Wisconsin won the Big Ten that year at 7-1 and Michigan finished 6-2 (losing to Staee and Illinois - I'm still pissed about those games). The Gophers played Wisconsin in the Metrodome that year and had a 3 point fourth quarter lead when Wisky hit a tying field goal. In OT, the Gophers got picked off and the Badgers won on a field goal 20-17. Had the Gophers who that game, they would have finished in a three-way tie at 6-2, and they would have gone to the Rose Bowl due to the tiebreaker which went to the team with the longest Rose Bowl drought. They ended up falling all the way to the Sun Bowl, where they lost on a Joey Harrington fourth and 16 completion (which set up the winning score - again, this could also qualify as its own evidence).
In 2003, it was very simple. They blew the 21 point lead to us in the Metrodome. Win that game, they finish in a four-way tie for the Big Ten at 6-2 and go to the Rose Bowl based on the longest drought tiebreaker.
The Gophers also have a long history of blowing large leads - 20+ point second half leads in bowl games to Texas Tech and NC State, the Wisconsin game where they got a punt blocked in the final 20 second returned for a TD, the Purdue game where Purdue went 70 yards in 8 seconds for a FG, the Ohio State game where the Gophers blew a 31-3 halftime lead, the Northwestern Hail Mary, the Northwestern pick 6 a few years ago...and on, and on, and on.
Again, it's Minnesota, and it's not close. I am a Michigan graduate, but my dad is a Minnesota alum. I honestly feel we cannot begin to complain about our lot in football because it could be A LOT worse.
Minnesota. With Indiana second. Illinois third <---they can't do anything right.
Penn State and/or Illinois
Lets beat MSU in EL first before we say goodbye to them.
Used to be a great football program, but it's been decades since they've done anything worth mentioning on the football field.
Do they get credit for the manhattan project work that allegedly took place below the football field? No?
Great point. Enrico Fermi would be proud. I think that old manhattan project is worth something.
Chicago is 43-50 with two conference championships.
Indiana is 38-74 with zero conference championships.
I'm inclined to pick Indiana because they haven't sniffed relevancy for as long as their program has existed. They've gone to one Rose Bowl, lost, and I'm not even sure they've won a bowl game. But at the same time, no one cares about the team and whether they win or lose. Its hard to pick them when no one on that campus has any investment in the team, or cares about its success at all.
I think it comes down to Purdue or Minnesota, and while both are the definition of mediocrity, I'm going to have to give the nod to Minnesota. Purdue can at least play the Drew Brees card and had success, relatively speaking, under Tiller. Minnesota has nothing to cling on to. It hasn't won a conference title, much less a national title, in decades, has an apathetic fan base, gets decimated by its rivals every year, and over the years, has become synonymous with shooting itself in the foot and blowing big leads in crucial games. Top it all off with a former jackass of a coach in Brewster that starts predicting Rose Bowls before he actually accomplishes anything. Minnesota, on the whole, is the definition of a program that can't do anything right and just flat out sucks in every way possible. Maybe Kill will bring them to respectability, but I'm not holding my breath on it.
Indiana is a huge choice here.
Seriously unlucky as they've had more than their fair share of better players flirt with going there only to not make it there. Gunner Keil, while not lighting anything up anywhere at this point, had a flirtation with IU where I believe his older brother was playing.
They also seem to choke away games they could win, such as last year against MSU when they were up big only to give up 2 4Q TDs. They also could have beaten Ball St and Navy to end up with 7 wins and a bowl game instead of 4.
They've been hurt by devastating injuries as well.
And yes, a whole lot of suck to go with all of that. Every other B1G program has done at least something of note that I can think of, but IU has just been scary bad and I've never felt like they had any chance to get up off the mat. Ever.
I think the fact that I forgot to mention Illinois in the OP kind of proves how forgettable they are.
considering the instate talent, resources at their disposal, and quality academics, how can they be so bad to mediocre so often?
They seem to show glimpses of potential. Zooker recruited Illinois ok didn't he? And I think they recruit Illinois pretty well for basketball. I have no explanation for why every high schooler to ever come from Chicago has apparently decided to flee Illinois
Zook was a great recruiter. He pulled in some outstanding talent when he was at Florida and Illinois. He recruited a national championship team at Florida. The problem with Zook is he could never coach those players up and get their full potential.
Agreed, Illinois. As a university of a large population state, they shouldn't be this bad. A lot of hemorrhaging of in state recruits. Zook was relatively successful in recruiting and took them to the Rose Bowl. But they wanted more, and now are back to square one with Beckman.
Big overachievers obviously is Nebraska with a small recruiting base but they always get talent in and win.
but they can't even do that well.
While the most snakebitten school in the B1G is certainly debatable, I think we can all agree on which school has had a less-than-favorable relationship with a different type of reptile.
I would definitely go with MSU over Indiana or Minnesota because it never really feels like those teams can be better than average at any given time. MSU on the other hand will make you stop and look for a second and wonder if they've turned the corner before plummeting back into the deep dark abyss known as mediocrity. Lol Sparty
Indiana. Their football team is so irrelevent that the admissions department actually offers free tickets to thousands of potential students for B1G conference games. I went to a game for free last year, the Iowa game (I could've gone to the Wisconsin game or the MSU game, but I figured Iowa would be a better game since both teams are bad). IU won and it was a good game, but the stadium was half empty and the apathy was palpable. It is going to be extroardinarily difficult for IU to ever be relevent in football with the program receiving no support at all.