...Ovechkin's line in the Caps-Habs series was absolutely awful:
|
Ovechkin |
7 |
5 |
5 |
10 |
5 |
0 |
34 |
14.7 |
Clearly his 10 points in 7 games was the reason the Caps lost in seven games. Obviously he didn't show up for the series. He should have led his team in goals, assists and points by much more than he did.
Did I ever say that Ovechkin didn't show up in that series or that Ovechkin was the reason they lost? Hint: the answer is no. If you think otherwise, feel free to quote it.
their way through the finals last year? Malkin's non-instigator? The 6 men on the ice in game 6? All the missed high sticks and hooks the ref didn't call? Fuck Pittsburgh I have no sympathy for them what so ever. Habs deserved this win more than them. Fleruy played like shit and Crosby got denied the enitre series except for a goal. Penguins had it coming!
Where in anything that I've written here have I remotely said that Montreal didn't deserve to win or that Fleury (or anyone else on the Penguins played well? You need to learn how to lose with class. The fact that you are have this much bitterness almost a year later is really, really sad.
...I referenced reached fever pitch after the Caps series loss and the Penguins first round win. My comment wasn't a comment about Crosby, it was a comment about the sports media's inability to think objectively (i.e., by prematurely anointing Crosby following the conclusion of two first round series).
You rushed to Crosby's defense (even though I didn't attack him) then said the following:
"...any logical person who has really watched many games (both NHL, international, and junior) knows that this is the first time in his career that Crosby has had a no show when it matters. Ovechkin, despite his numbers, cannot say the same thing."
It sure seemed to me that in the context of the thread, you were referring to Ovechkin not showing up in his last series (i.e., when it mattered). No, you didn't explicitly state that, but I submit it was logical for me to infer that's what you meant.
But, since apparently you acknowledge that Ovechkin did show up in the Caps-Habs series, I really don't understand your assertion that "despite his numbers, [he] cannot say the same thing."
Well, I guess we were both wrong then. I wasn't talking about Ovechkin against Montreal, and you weren't attacking Crosby. I apologize. It's something I've come to expect from virtually every poster here who comments on hockey. I shouldn't have made the assumption, and seeing what you wrote initially I can see how and why I read it wrong. Sorry about that (honestly).
As for Ovechkin's play, I was specifically talking about his play prior to this year's playoffs. He definitely showed up in that series. No doubt about that.
You must be referring to Ovechkin's 21 points in 14 playoff games last year. Or the 9 points in 7 games the year before that. Oh my, he scored at only at basically a point and a half per game in the playoffs before this year! What a choke artist!
Oh sorry, you meant the point per game he had in the Olympics. Man, that Ovechkin character just cannot show up in big games. His team does so well around him, but he just chokes the damn games away.
Looking at basic overall total stats for an entire playoffs or entire series definitely doesn't address the point that I was making nor does it tell the whole story. It's about when those points are scored, not necessarily how many in total are scored in a given tournament. However, if you want to play the numbers game, a few examples:
2010 - Game seven versus Montreal- 1 assist (Loss)
2010 - Olympic quarterfianls versus Canada - 0 points (Loss)
2009 - Game seven versus Pittsburgh - 1 goal (Loss)
2008 - WC gold medal game versus Canada - 1 assist (Win)
2008 - WC semifinal game versus Finland - 1 assist (Win)
2008 - WC quarterfinal game versus Switzerland - 1 goal (Win)
2008 - Game seven versus Philadelphia - 1 goal, 1 assist (Loss)
2007 - WC bronze medal game versus Sweden - 0 points (Win)
2007 - WC semifinals versus Finland - 0 points (Loss)
2006 - WC quarterfinals versus Czech Republic - 1 goal, 1 assist (Loss)
2006 - Olympic semifinal versus Finland - 0 points (Loss)
2006 - Olympic bronze medal game versus Czech Republic - 0 points (Loss)
2005 - WJC gold medal game versus Canada - 0 points (Loss)
In each of those examples, except for the 2008 NHL playoffs (where he had 3 goals and 4 assists in the other six games) and the 2006 World Championships, his performance in an elimination game was below his average output for the particular playoffs period. There is no doubt that he averages about 1.4 points per game over the course of a playoff series (at the NHL-level, anyway), but that average falls to 0.54 points per game (7 points in 13 games) in elimination games (i.e. the games that matter).
In terms of the NHL:
Crosby's career playoff points per game: 1.32
Ovechkin's career playoff points per game: 1.43
Crosby's career points per game when facing elimination: 0.86
Ovechkin's career points per game when facing elimination: 1.22
Yes, Ovechkin's play in international competition isn't so great (but then again, look at Russia's results in Olympics, WC, and WJC tournaments over the past 15-20 years - he's not alone on that squad), but he certainly has a knack for putting points up when his team needs him in the NHL playoffs (where he's paid to do his job). He rightly deserves the knocks he may get for his lackadasical defense sometimes, but you can't say he doesn't show up in the playoffs. Note that I'm not saying Crosby disappears when it counts (0.86 ppg in the playoffs period would be a very good average, let alone in situations where his team is facing elimination), just showing that any knocks on Ovechkin disappearing in the NHL playoffs is unfounded.
"He rightly deserves the knocks he may get for his lackadasical defense sometimes, but you can't say he doesn't show up in the playoffs."
I never said that he doesn't show up in the playoffs. I've actually said something else entirely different. But other than that, your point is valid. I wasn't using the numbers that I posted to make my point, but rather I was using them become you responded to me using stats. that's why I said "Looking at basic overall total stats for an entire playoffs or entire series definitely doesn't address the point that I was making nor does it tell the whole story." My original comment was more observational about overall play, rather than point production, which is obviously hard (if not impossible) to quantify here.
I'm sure you know this as well as I do; it was more that the Habs' defense just shut Crosby down, than it was that Crosby was a no-show. That, of course, won't stop the Crosby-haters.
Disclaimer: I like Crosby about as much as I like Tebow actually (ie not at all) but I gotta call it like I see it.
Nah, I disagree. There was definitely something off about his game. Not sure what it was, but it just wasn't there. He's played against better defensive pairs than that and worked through (e.g. Volcheknov and Philips in the first round). Montreal's defense surely had a lot to do with it, but something was definitely off with Crosby. Note: this is not meant to take anything away from the series that Montral played defensively. They played it perfectly. With what Gill has been able to do to Ovechkin two years in a row and Crosby this year, he's definitely earned his reputation of one of the top (if not the top) shut down defensemen in the game. He'll be able to write his own paycheck again after next season when he's a UFA again.
I'll have to concede that one to you then; you've seen more of Crosby's games than I have! Entertaining series regardless, and better luck next year of course. Hopefully our respective teams won't have second round exits again.
I was with you until your last sentence. If Hal Gill wants max money, Hal Gill's going to be unemployed.
Yeah, I didn't mean to say that he could get max money, but rather that he's going to maximize the amount of money that a player with his skill set could ever dream of making. I definitely could have (and should have) written that better.
It's more that he's an immature git that puts that into question. They're both kind of fundamentally unlikable.
Justice. Is. Served.
Damn. this guy came out of nowhere. it wasn't even his job to start the year, now he's got an 8 seed in the conference finals.
Actually he really didn't come out of nowhere. He carried Slovakia to the bronze medal game at the Olympics. The only reason that it seems like he came out of nowhere is because Montreal had to realize that their Carey Price experiment was a failure, which took some time given what Montreal had invested in Carey Price. He was really the better goaltender of the two of them all season long.
Montreal, Quebec is going to be party hearty tonight baby! Congratulations to the Habs!
This man has really been the most impressive stand out next to Cam man in these playoffs. He took away almost every amount of space against the Pens and the only time they got close to getting one past hime were the shots that rang off the pipes. He has been a man possessed and I expect him to keep shutting down chances in the ECF. How about Subban too? This kid just flat out works his butt off out there. I have really been impressed with him as well.