OT: The Money Pit that is Rutgers Football

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May 3rd, 2012 at 10:07 PM
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Dreisbach Turne...
Dreisbach Turner Overdrive's picture
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OT: The Money Pit that is Rutgers Football

Bloomberg Article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-03/rutgers-football-fails-profit-t...

"Rutgers gave $28.5 million from the university budget and student fees to sports during the fiscal year ended June 30, 2011. That worked out to almost $1,000 a student. It was the largest amount among 54 public institutions in the six main organizations that compete in college football’s Bowl Championship Series: the Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big 12, Big 10, Pac-12 and Southeastern conferences. The findings are based on annual reports by the universities to the National Collegiate Athletic Association that were obtained by Bloomberg through open-records requests."

Syracuse '03, Michigan G'05

Space bitches, space.

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May 3rd, 2012 at 10:15 PM | Wow.  I would be PISSED if I (Score:3 Normal)
PatrickBateman
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Joined: 02/16/2012
MGoPoints: 199

Wow.  I would be PISSED if I was a student at Rutgers paying my own way, working jobs after classes, skimping on everyday needs, just to pay $1,000 to provide full scholarships to field hockey players and wrestlers.

Craig James was my wingman in '82.

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:54 PM | If you go to Rutgers this (Score:5 Normal)
sargasm
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Joined: 05/19/2009
MGoPoints: 8

If you go to Rutgers this would be the least of your worries. 

Upon seeing Indiana Univ rap video 7 year-old said:  "I would rather go to Michigan for 35 years than go to that school for 1 minute!"

May 4th, 2012 at 10:23 AM | Rutgers is ranked the 68th (Score:3 Normal)
Fuzzy Dunlop
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Joined: 09/22/2009
MGoPoints: 4175

Rutgers is ranked the 68th best university in the US by US News and World Report.  Not amazing by any means, but better then a number of Big 10 schools.

 

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+7

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:21 PM | Misleading (Score:5 Normal)
Space Coyote
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MGoPoints: 4381

This is money going to all athletics, not just football.  The author is clearly trying to hammer the institution of college football, and maybe Rutgers football is far from making a debt, but the way he titles his article and then looking at the numbers, it is clear what he is trying to do, which is part of the reason for media backlash.

Stupid headline.  I also see he doesn't count how much some athletic departments are giving back to the universities.  I guess I'm not surprised by that, though it happens at numerous universities (not saying they always give back more than they take, but this is clearly only counting what is taken).

Also, while $1000 is way higher than it should be, even for all athletics, I don't think people realize the full impact athletics has on schools.  It is money going to recruiting, pride, and entertainment for the students and alumni.  So, again, while $1000 is way too high, the smaller sums that most students are giving at other universities isn't just going to "silly sports".

4/23/13 - Denard Robinson's NFL Future, Part II

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:32 PM | Did you go to Rutgers?The (Score:4 Normal)
Dreisbach Turne...
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Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 6788

Did you go to Rutgers?

The whole reason the athletic department is a disaster is because of the dumbass investments that they've made into the stadium and the rest of the football program.

This isn't because of field hockey or the basketball program that plays in a glorified Soviet-era high school gym.

edit: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/despite_success_on_the_field_b....

Syracuse '03, Michigan G'05

Space bitches, space.

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:32 PM | I'm from Jersey, (Score:1 Normal)
jblaze
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MGoPoints: 3177

and I approve this message!

"They're stuck with that quarterback (sophomore Braxton Miller) for the next two or three years, that's fine with me. He throws worse than (Tim) Tebow. - Steve Everitt

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:36 PM | That may be the case (Score:5 Normal)
Space Coyote
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But the theme of the article is trying to bash all of college football.  Also, I promise that the other athletic teams are losing money as well, and probably just as much as football when you combine them.

I didn't go to Rutgers and obviously they are doing something very wrong when you look at the amount of money they lost (almost double the next university).  I'm just saying that the author is purposefully attempting to mislead people into thinking this is a majority football problem for many schools, when in reality football keeps most ADs afloat.

The first thing readers will do is read the headline and then look at the plot and note the it is money lost per university.  Based on that they will lead to believe it's a football problem for universities.  The title and plot are misleading (doesn't label his plot well).  Even if what you are saying is true, and I have no doubt that it is, it doesn't mean that the author isn't attempting to generate views by misleading people.

4/23/13 - Denard Robinson's NFL Future, Part II

May 4th, 2012 at 10:36 AM | The problem is that the economics really just work out (Score:1)
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 5155

for a handful of schools. We're lucky that UM is one of them, but that doesn't help Rutgers. As a New Jersey kid whose mom taught at Rutgers, I can tell you that there is plenty of bitterness at the way football has been handled there. Someone mentioned that fball brings entertainment--no doubt. But those kids BUY tickets on top of that huge piece of their fees.

I love football, and no one here is calling for its execution, but it's also highly problematic. I appreciate that people here are willing to assess it candidly, instead of with rahrah knee jerk reactions. 

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:19 PM | This is the same school that (Score:5 Normal)
redwhiteandmaize
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 1042

This is the same school that paid Snooki from Jersey Shore to speak at graduation.This is how they roll.

"Are you an official here?Because you've officially given me a boner."

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:25 PM | Srsly?! (Score:2 Normal)
B-Nut-GoBlue
Joined: 09/30/2011
MGoPoints: 1683

I hadn't heard that.  That is a crime against humanity (at least that particular graduating class).  I would truthfully be pissed if that's what the Class Reps. chose as a speaker for graduation.

May 4th, 2012 at 9:05 AM | From my friends at Rutgers (Score:2 Normal)
cheesheadwolverine
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Toni Morrison was invited the same year to speak on campus and paid less.

"I just hope Tressel doesn't fire me"

-Gordon Gee

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:33 PM | Could be true, but MSU paid (Score:5 Normal)
jblaze
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the Situation AKA sitch to be at a game (which is worse).

"They're stuck with that quarterback (sophomore Braxton Miller) for the next two or three years, that's fine with me. He throws worse than (Tim) Tebow. - Steve Everitt

May 3rd, 2012 at 11:33 PM | nevermind (Score:2)
Picktown GoBlue
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point made sufficiently elsewhere.  Boy, do i hate twisted statistics and misleading ledes.

 

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:27 PM | I thought our AD was (Score:5 Normal)
Lutha
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I thought our AD was completely self-funded.  So what's the deal with the graphic showing a wee tiny amount of university support?

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:34 PM | I could be wrong (I don't (Score:4 Normal)
GoBlueInNYC
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I could be wrong (I don't have any source or link or anything), but I think there's some legal something or other that requires the university to fund the AD a certain small amount. The AD, in turn, kicks back that amount and more back to the university later, but something about in order for the AD to be a subdivision of the university, it has to receive some financial support.

Or I totally full of it, and have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about.

I am this close to going all Dark Blue in here.

May 4th, 2012 at 9:20 AM | Maybe I'm confused, but I'm (Score:1)
Bluesnu
Joined: 01/06/2011
MGoPoints: 122

Maybe I'm confused, but I'm not sure what you're referring to with the AD "kicking back" money to the University.  The University of Michigan and the AD are wholely separate entities--a relationship equivalent to the Government and the Post Office.  The AD keeps the money it makes in its own budget, and the University the same.  The two don't blend funds whatsoever. I think the below poster is correct about the 300k being DB's

May 4th, 2012 at 9:29 AM | The AD keeps its net profits, (Score:3 Normal)
snarling wolverine
Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 4702

The AD keeps its net profits, but it has an unusual deal with the university where it pays out-of-state tuition for everyone, regardless of where they're from - which amounts to a de facto kickback to the school.

May 4th, 2012 at 11:48 PM | Yes, it's just a (Score:2)
M-Dog
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Yes, it's just a technicality.  I don't remember the link to the details..

M'Dog

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:48 PM | I believe that 300K we see (Score:5 Normal)
Mattisons Moxy
Joined: 07/21/2011
MGoPoints: 5

I believe that 300K we see for Michigan is Dave Brandon's salary. In order for it to be considered a part of the University, the AD must be employed by the University - aka the University contributes to the Athletic Department. It looks like this graph does not take into account any contributions the Athletic Department makes back to the University.

May 3rd, 2012 at 11:03 PM | The guys above could also be (Score:2 Normal)
justingoblue
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The guys above could also be correct, but I'm pretty sure the University has to pay the bills for any academic expenses, like tutoring, using AD facilities for classes, and things of that nature.

As far as DB's salary, the University might pay some of it, but I do know the AD is an endowed position, so not all $300,000 is payed out by the administration.

Go Blue!

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:31 PM | I don't disagree with you that they are misguided... (Score:2)
mgogiants
Joined: 10/16/2011
MGoPoints: 32

You're completely right that they're misguided, and they did pay her to speak, but not at commencement. Granted they did pay her more for her event than they paid the actual commencement speaker.

 

http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/tv/rutgers_university_to_pay_snook...

And I meant to reply this to a post above. Sorry!

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:41 PM | I hope Zack Parise joins the (Score:2 Normal)
redwhiteandmaize
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 1042

I hope Zack Parise joins the wings this off season.

"Are you an official here?Because you've officially given me a boner."

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:41 PM | Is the small line that (Score:5 Normal)
jeffro0542
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Is the small line that appears next to Michigan the result of us taking the band to Jerry World?

"He has an uncanny ability to get kids to believe in him and believe in themselves. He doesn't do it with smooth words. He's not smooth. He does it by being the same genuine person day after day." ~Jason Whitlock on Brady Hoke

May 4th, 2012 at 8:17 AM | This is data from the 2010-11 (Score:3 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28972

This is data from the 2010-11 fiscal year.

May 3rd, 2012 at 10:49 PM | It's kind of surprising to (Score:2)
UMgradMSUdad
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MGoPoints: 1960

It's kind of surprising to see some schools running such large deficits.  For example, I have 2 daughers at Oklahoma State U.  With T Boone Pickens showering the athletic department with over $100 million in recent years (and a similar chunk to the academic side as well), it makes one wonder how they could be running a deficit.  Well a lot of it went into the newly renovated (and named) football stadium, which is not a bad investment, especially with someone giving you the money.  But then there are the really stupid fiscal moves like a high dollar long-term contract to the basketball coach and a gamble on expensive life insurance policies on high income elderly boosters.  Except none of the boosters died, leaving a huge outflow of cash ($33 million!) with no inflow on that "investment."

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/03/21/death-bets-oklahoma-state-university-insurance-pickens/

 

Pickens is reported to be the brain child of the insurance scheme, so maybe he'll cover the loss.  If not, I suspect next year's short fall will be a lot more than $5-6 million.

May 3rd, 2012 at 11:09 PM | You migth notice though (Score:2)
Blazefire
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MGoPoints: 15742

Michigan is listed as paying out to the athletic department. We all know that M actually kicks quite a bit back to the university, way more than is paid to the AD. It may be at other schools there's a similar arrangement, but with much more money being paid out. For instance, at some schoos, all of the coaching staff may also be professors, in which case their entire pay may be paid by the univeristy. If so, that would may the payout number look a lot bigger, even though that money is certianly repayed by the athletic department.

"This is the EMU game, not the emo game."
May 3rd, 2012 at 11:39 PM | Another factor might be the (Score:2)
Mattisons Moxy
Joined: 07/21/2011
MGoPoints: 5

Another factor might be the details of Freedom of Information Laws in each state. A state like Michigan might release itemized details of all monetary exchanges in and out of the Athletic Department and the University. A state like Texas may only release a net transfer of funds - which I'd assume would be a positive contribution from the Athletic Dpt. to the University. In an effort to make the author's point, that contribution may be set to 0.

May 3rd, 2012 at 11:39 PM | Why not Ohio or Purdue (Score:1)
Roachgoblue
Joined: 08/29/2011
MGoPoints: 1477

?

[Caved troll is caved. Sorry, Mobile app users.]

May 3rd, 2012 at 11:49 PM | On my phone, so no cool block (Score:3 Normal)
Zone Left
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On my phone, so no cool block quotes...



http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/04/27/athletic-giving-crowds-out...



This is new research suggesting athletic success does increase alumni donations, but only to athletics. As winning percentages increase, giving to athletics increases, but disproportionately decreases giving to other portions of the school.

It's all John Navarre's fault.

 

May 4th, 2012 at 8:22 AM | I'm surprised Wisconsin needs (Score:2)
snarling wolverine
Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 4702

I'm surprised Wisconsin needs university support, given that Camp Randall is packed every year, as is (I believe) the Kohl Center.  Maybe some of this just comes down to how they do the bookkeeping.

May 4th, 2012 at 8:28 AM | Only going to get worse now (Score:1 Normal)
phork
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Only going to get worse now that Schiano is gone.

May 4th, 2012 at 9:05 AM | isnt this chart a little (Score:1)
Mr. Rager
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MGoPoints: 756

isnt this chart a little misleading in some ways? mich one of 7 self funded programs, but our students pay approx $20/game. i know most schools the tickets are free. i wonder if that is included in this analysis (does not seem to be).

"to make a complete evaluation off video w/o seeing guys in-person - I don't believe that at all." - Josh Helmholdt

May 4th, 2012 at 9:19 AM | The key distinction is that (Score:2)
snarling wolverine
Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 4702

The key distinction is that students who pay to watch football at Michigan are choosing to do so.  At Rutgers and elsewhere, there are mandatory fees supporting athletics.  

May 4th, 2012 at 10:13 AM | yeah but apples-to-apples we (Score:1)
Mr. Rager
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yeah but apples-to-apples we are funded by a vast majority of students who get that money from their parents... so - really.. same shit.  I am just looking to figure out how much better we are on an apples-to-apples basis, is all.

"to make a complete evaluation off video w/o seeing guys in-person - I don't believe that at all." - Josh Helmholdt

May 4th, 2012 at 10:44 AM | I don't understand what (Score:2)
snarling wolverine
Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 4702

I don't understand what you're saying.  Do Rutgers students not get money from their parents?  

May 4th, 2012 at 10:34 AM | Student Fees (Score:2)
akearney50
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Joined: 09/26/2008
MGoPoints: 147

I work at a small, public D1 school and we just recently passed a student fee referendum.  We researched this A LOT.  Our fee covers more than just athletics.  It encompasses about six other on campus organizations as well.  Anyway, in our research we found that student fees at some institutions are pretty crazy.  I can't find an article I read a little over a month ago, but it compared all the Virginia state schools.  Longwood's student fee for athletics is over $2,000 a year.  There were either 5 or 6 other Virginia public schools that were over $1,000.
 

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