OT: Miguel man, Miguel
August 18th, 2013 at 10:34 AM ^
on hitting but Miggy defense is way below average and is not a good base runner which really hurt his WAR value. One of the reason why Mike Trout is so good is he saves run and steals a ton of bases plus get more extra bases because of his speed.
With that being said, Miggy still leads over Trout in WAR which speak of his hitting ability this season.
August 18th, 2013 at 11:08 AM ^
That being said, I don't know that WAR even itself attempts to be the single stat to determine who is the best/better(in head-to-head comparison) player. I just think, in my humbly biased opinion, that if you are trying to come up with a single stat to determine best player, you better calibrate it so that the best player is Miggy, cuz he da best.
August 18th, 2013 at 11:31 AM ^
Trout's WAR for defense this year is actually -0.8, while his offensive WAR is 8.2 with an overall of 7.3. Miggy's WAR for defense is -1.0, while his offensive WAR is 8.0 with an overall of 6.7. Surprisingly, Trout's defense this year has little or nothing to do with his WAR advantage over Cabrera. If you look closely at the stats for both players, Trout has the advantage in doubles (33 to 24), triples (8 to 1), stolen bases (28 to 3) and walks (77 to 71). Cabrera has the lead in homeruns (39 to 21), RBI (117 to 77), batting average (.358 to .330), on base (.450 to .429), slugging (.683 to .571), and on base + slugging (1.133 to 1.000). A closer look shows what an amazing offensive season Trout is having. Cabrera clearly has the better power statistics and Trout clearly has the better speed statistics. What WAR doesn't take in to consideration is the "timeliness" of Cabrera's performance. How many times has a Cabrera hit or homerun tied or won a game for the Tigers in the 7th inning or later? I am not sure how many times but it seems like at least 5 or 6 in the last 2 to 3 weeks. I am not sure how many times Trout has come through in the clutch since I don't watch the Angels play every day but you would think probably not nearly as often as Miggy, hence the 13 games below .500 record the Angels carry. Miggy is the MVP this year, followed by Chris Davis and Mike Trout.
August 18th, 2013 at 11:47 AM ^
This is my issue with WAR:
What weight are these categories given? To me, triples aren't that valuable, especially in relation to doubles. What does a triple get you? A chance to score on a flyball if there are less than two outs and if the flyball is deep enough. Sacrifice flys are not really that common of an occurance.
And where was runs in your breakdown? Doesn't Miguel have more runs than Trout?
Regardless, I don't care for the Trout/Cabrera debate. Both are having great years. But WAR is a stupid, fake statistic that I can't believe has become such an accepted metric.
August 18th, 2013 at 5:35 PM ^
August 18th, 2013 at 9:08 PM ^
Is WAR calibrated so the total for that team actually equals their win total? Could Trout et al stats somehow produce more (or less) WAR than the Angel's actual record? That would make it useless as well.
August 18th, 2013 at 9:42 PM ^
because they're two different things. Win-Loss record isn't a stats because it's a team performance, not individual performance. They take account into quality of competition, ballpark factor, etc. and just compare it to the average MLB player. That's what WAR essentially is how much win a player is worth compared to the average player.
August 22nd, 2013 at 9:58 PM ^
their players, totaled up, likely have negative WAR, right?
as in, their team would be better if they were all replaced with hypothetically average players.
But could WAR be used to predict how that team, the all-average team, would do in 162 games? Should they not be 81-81?
August 18th, 2013 at 5:32 PM ^
August 18th, 2013 at 6:20 PM ^
which is why it's weighted less in WAR calculations. Trout is a leadoff hitter and has worse hitters in front of him which means fewer opportunities for him to drive in runs as opposed to Miggy as a #3 hitter where he has AJax and Torii are on base a lot which gives him more opportunities to drive in runs. If Miggy had two below average leadoff hitter and 2 hole hitter, his RBI total would be down simply because he has worse hitters hitting in front of him which means he has fewer opportunities to drive in runs.
It's apples to oranges because RBI is a team stats, not individual stats.
August 18th, 2013 at 1:12 AM ^
August 18th, 2013 at 2:25 AM ^
But remember kids: Trout is still the better player and MVP according to ESPN WAR. (By a whole game, no less!)
Nevermind the fact that Trout has somehow gained nearly 2 whole wins in the last month or so to overtake Cabrera (Apparently Miggy's hitting streak isn't as impressive as we all thought..)
August 18th, 2013 at 1:32 AM ^
August 18th, 2013 at 1:37 AM ^
Miggy is the man. What a rush
August 18th, 2013 at 2:01 AM ^
August 18th, 2013 at 8:24 AM ^
regardless, the guy's a once-in-a-lifetime phenom for Tigers fans.
August 18th, 2013 at 8:04 AM ^
August 18th, 2013 at 1:18 PM ^
August 18th, 2013 at 11:59 AM ^
Got up this morning and saw this (was at a concert last night, no not Kenny Chesny). I'm not even surprised anymore. The fact he's hobbling around on one leg just makes it more amazing.
August 18th, 2013 at 1:21 PM ^
August 18th, 2013 at 1:22 PM ^
Aaaaand he just did it again. Wow.
August 18th, 2013 at 1:22 PM ^
apart from any other hitter I've seen is the number and location of pitches off the plate that he hits for home runs.
He has 3 different strides at the plate and can hit the long ball with all 3, I can't think of anyone like that.
August 18th, 2013 at 2:03 PM ^
WHY ARE YOU PITCHING TO THIS GUY?!?! With an open base no less.
Oh well, we'll take it.
August 18th, 2013 at 2:42 PM ^
Watching Cabrera is so fun because he almost redefines expectation vs. reality in baseball. You watch this game enough and you get used to someone getting a hit 28% of the time and accept that as being average to slightly above average. Then a guy comes along and gets a hit 36% of the time, which is significantly different than what's been engrained in us as being "right." It seems like that can't possibly be right, it just doesn't fit. Then you watch him hit a walk-off HR last night to right and then take the first pitch he sees today deep to left and realize that this guy is just special. His ability to pull the ball to either field is amazing, as is his ability to hit inside and outside the plate.
August 18th, 2013 at 6:41 PM ^
since many have mentioned Baroid lets stack his career next to Miggys to this point
Baroid Miggy
86-223 03-268 Miggy by 45
87-261 04-294 Miggy by 33
88-283 05-323 Miggy by 40
89-248 06-339 Miggy by 91
90-301 07-320 Miggy by 19
91-292 08-292 push
92-311 09-324 Miggy by 13
93--336 10-328 Bonds by 8
94-312 11-344 Miggy by 32
95-294 12-330 Miggy by 36
96-308 13-360 Miggy by 52
It's not as close as people would lead you to believe. Add that Barry pre steroids was worse than ARod in the playoffs and it only separates further. Since Miggy was hitting bombs in the World Series his rookie year.