The Ump has to understand that people come to see Cabrera, not him. Tolerance is needed in that situation.
OT: Miguel Cabrera tossed out of game with bases loaded one out.
Ump is well within the boundaries of accepted behavior to toss someone for arguing balls and strikes, whether star player or legendary manager.
People pay money to see baseball, not umpires with the self-esteem of adolescent girls kick someone out because of "accepted behavior". What once was accepted should not always remain accepted.
If you start allowing players and managers to argue balls and strikes you'll see a lot less baseball. Games would take twice as long to play if managers, hitters and pitchers all got to say their piece after every throw to the plate. It's a "rule" intended to ensure a bit of decorum and to keep the game moving.
Imagine if head football coaches were allowed to challenge every play on whether or not any penalty was committed and got to have a discussion with the ref about it. Would that be fun to watch?
It isn't like he stopped to debate the call. He was preparing for the next pitch as he was making a statement.
He did step out of the box, look back and say something derogative...
manner, most of the time it does not result in an ejection. That is literally the most mild mannered argument I have ever seen that has resulted in an ejection.
And BlueIndy your argument makes no sense. By ejecting him Fairchild actually held up the game. Letting him say his couple fo words takes a couple seconds, ejecting him turns it into a full blown argument with the player and manager that takes 5 minutes instead. Like I said your argument makes no sense, ejections hold up the game more than anything else in baseball.
...whoops this isn't twitter my bad
What made it even worse was the called third strike on Tuiasosocpppo (no way I can spell that without looking it up, copying and pasting). The pitch was at his ankles.
I'm mildly amazed that Fairchild didn't call the infield fly rule there. After all, the ball didn't make it to the warning track. :rollseyes:
Am I crazy here?
Arguing balls and strikes with the home plate ump puts you at risk of getting tossed. Ump is well within his right to do so.
In sports people argue calls all the time. Only in MLB and the NBA do you see ejections. That's 100% pure American bullshit. Ejections should only be for extreme circumstances.
Setting aside the way other sports are officiated, the perceived American bullshittedness of this occurrence and what you think "should" be acceptable, any pro player or manager will tell you that when you argue balls and strikes you're at risk of being thrown out of the game.
some archaic ways that need to be altered. One could also argue that saying "fucking ridiculous" is not an argument but rather a statement. It's not like he got into Fairchild's face.
Chad Fairchild comes off as Cartman in an Umpire's uniform.
So, to recap: You can:
- Argue with the umpire and say most anything provided you don't get in his face.
- Issue insults of any kind provided that you're arguably making statements ("hey, you're a dumb### mother----!") and not technically "arguing" the call.
- Violate (1) and/or (2) above, but only if you're a star player and only under vague circumstances depending on game situation
If you argue, you can be ejected. Period. You are whining because you didn't like the call. And maybe it was a bad call. But it's ultimately the player's fault for allowing it to happen. Arguing calls mid at-bat is never wise.
Bottom line: There will always be a gray area for interpretation. Players have to deal with it and fans do, too.
watch? Players argueing in the manner Cabrera did happens all the time, and most of the time the ump is wise enough to not eject the player in those situations. Also the other problem with the situation is why couldn't have Fairchild given him a warning before pulling the trigger? If he would have continued to argue after he said enough I think than it would be justified. It is a matter of excercising discretion on the umpire's part in that situation. If you want to be a official in sports players argueing is part of the package, and sometimes that requires having thicker skin than Fairchild showed in that situation.
It needs to be two way street, if players are held accountable for overeacting in certain situations by being ejected, fined or suspended, umpires should also be held accountable for overreacting. Some of the umpires are becoming increasely confrontational with the players, and they are not being held accountable.
Note, this post is in response to BlueIndy.
I'm not defending the tossing that much (he could have ignored it), but generally the "f-bomb" is an auto-ejection. That doesn't mean every f-bomb results in an ejection, but it means that an umpire is justified (in his boss's view) if an f-bomb was hurled at him. As someone mentioned, it looked pretty clear from the replay that Cabrera said "fucking horrible/terrible."
That said, Fairchild could have just as easily made a point by taking his mask off and telling Cabrera "no mas." Instead, it looks like he has some vendetta because of the previous ejections.
Side note: How shitty are the Phillies? Throwing the ball everywhere, not catching the ball, not making plays in the field that are slightly more difficult than routine. Pretty pathetic.
The Phillies have given the Tigers 5 outs so far this inning. Only one of them made it to the scoreboard so far.
Worst team I've seen since the Astros.
That might have been the single worst inning I've ever seen, they looked like an Arizona summer league team, where was the Yakity Sax music.
Fairchild for multiple seasons was part of what was the worst umpiring crew in the majors. It contained both Joe West and Angel Fernandez. He learned the art of self-promotion and having ZERO tolerance with players from those two fools.
Since MLB lets guys like Joe West, Angel Fernandez, and others to insert themselves into the game and become the storyline this type of situation will continue.
Peralta hits a grand slam.
Eject THAT, asshole.
Further proof that the pitching doesn't have to be lights-out, just good enough. 11 runs of support? I could work with that.
of those runs.
The problem with the way earned runs are defined is that, in general, one unearned run or error will poison the well, as it were, for the rest of the inning. A better (not perfect) fix might be to clean the slate when there's a pitching change so that any runs the new pitcher allows are earned. That one Phillies reliever came in, walked two guys and served up a salami - pitched like shit, in other words, which had nothing to do with the previous errors - and got no earned runs. Seems wrong.
The Phillies in our 8-run inning:
How awkward is this interview with the music blasting over Miggy?
about it, probally because if he spoke his mind it would result in a fine. As far Miggy's interview he did at least confirm what he said, which is what people in the thread thought he said. Despite swearing I don't think it was something henios enough, that a grown man shouldn't be able to brush it off in that situation.
...this thin-skinned ump was picked as an umpire for the all-star game. How does that work?
In all fairness, you're judging him on one decision today, maybe a couple decisions if you know that he was involved in the ejections earlier in the year.
For all anyone knows maybe this guy is the best ball/strikes caller in the game or he's got the best % of correct calls at first base. The league office tracks all of that, we just aren't privy to it.
He argued balls and strikes, twice. You can't argue balls and strikes, it's the rule.
I know this thread is pretty well settled, but as an aside regarding balls and strikes...
I know a former minor league hitting coach, and he and his manager had a creative way to argue balls and strikes with the umpire. Instead of arguing after the ump made his call (directly arguing balls and strikes), they would ask where the ump saw the ball:
MGR: Where'd you have that, Ump?
UMP: A little inside.
MGR: Aw, that's horseshit. Even I could see that from here.
UMP: Don't argue balls and strikes with me.
MGR: I'm not. I'm just telling you that wasn't inside.
By doing this he wasn't arguing whether it was a ball or strike, just where the ump said he saw the ball cross over the plate. Just a semantic difference, I know, but it worked pretty well for them.
Also, when the hitting coach was a player, he drew a line on an Ump in the dirt a full six inches off the plate for what he thought was a bad call. He encountered that ump several times afterwards, and each time he'd head up for his at bat, the ump would say: "You better start swinging, because these are all going to be strikes." Ump never called another ball for him.
Lesson: Umps are dicks. Don't argue balls and strikes.