OT - MGOBoating Thread
So I'm thinking of buying a boat, maybe this year or next. I've been looking at boats in the 27-33 ft range, mostly with dual engines and an aft cabin. Something used, but in good shape.
Are there any MGoBoaters here? What kind of boat do you own? Where do you use it? Do you trailer it or keep it in the water?
I know you didn't ask for any....
1. Don't sell it to the Admiral as a boat. Any pleasure vessel over 25' is, by definition, a yacht. Might be more prestige in a yacht. Kinda like difference between calling a pontoon boat a 'redneck party barge' or an 'evening chardenay cruiser.'
2. Instead of #1 above, sell it as a cottage, just one that moves. Don't like the neighbors or the view? Move!
3. Assuming you want to spend time on the hook. Do so! But every 3-5 days take the Admiral into a marina for a real shower and retail therapy. If there is a spa nearby: Bonus!
Good luck!
It sounds like you haven't chosen a marina yet, which can be a significant deal--how long it takes just to get out on the water can be a big obstacle. Drive time, prep time on the boat, it all adds up to hours not spent enjoying yourself.
Are you at a point where you can commit to making boating activities a primary recreation outlet in the summer? It's a pretty expensive investment just to have for the occasional Saturday when you feel like getting out on the water, but if you are going to spend portions of at least a day or two every week enjoying it, it can make more sense. But you have to factor in things like travel time and fuel expense there.
There's a couple in our church that has a very modest Bayliner in a Marina that accesses the Apostle Islands, 1.5 hours away. It makes sense for them because they take every Friday off and head out there, coming back Saturday evening, all summer. They bring friends out regularly. It pays off. Most of the boats that dock near them don't get used nearly that much.
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Buying a boat is almost always a bad investment moneywise. If you like boating and you have disposable income it can be fun and relaxing. I have a 32' SeaRay Sundancer and it sleeps 5 - 6 people. Twin engines is better than one because you can steer with the engines and it allows you better control, since boats don't have brakes and you can hit things. I did not have a boat when I lived in Michigan because the season was so short, but I live in Tennessee now and we use it from March to November and can keep it n the water all year long. Hope this helps.
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Bought her in 2009 and have very much enjoyed owning it. I keep her in the water at the Middle Bass State Park marina (right next to Put-In-Bay) on Lake Erie. It's a 33 foot Rinker and has twin fuel injected 350s. If your planning on boating on one of the Great Lakes I would advise you not go any smaller than 27ft and I think you'll like 30 or more better. One cool thing about my boat is the cabin has high ceiling and when you're tall like me it's nice not bumping your head on things. AND it has a built in blender, fridge and ice maker for drinks right behind the helm.
My advice would to shop slowly and carefully. I got mine at a great price cause it was winter, the owner was going through an ugly divorce and gas prices were high. Heading into summer with low (relatively speaking) price of fuel you'll prolly pay quite a bit more. And I would also suggest you over-maintain the shit out of it in the off-season. I'm sure I pay quite a bit more seasonaly in mainenance than I need to but every summer the boat starts, runs and performs as it should. Nobody wants to spend a nice weekend wrenching a motor!
Hope that helps. And remember Everybody Murders....I didnt bring up this topic - I'm just trying to help a brother out.
I'm definitely taking my time and doing a lot of research before I pull the trigger. I appreciate the advice.
Also, nice boat. Pretty much exactly what I want.
Take a look at the used Sea Rays. Also agree about maintaining the shit out of it. I maintain my boat religously - I like keeping it nice. My last boat sold for 75% of its purchase price almost 8 years later. If you maintain them they will sell well. Likewise, it's worth it to pay for a well maintained boat.
Donny Baker has been trying to sell a boat for years!
They have these hybrid boats now with an engine to maneuver in tight spaces and then these big canvases that use an alternative energy source called "wind". It's invisible AND free. Highly recommend.
but my wife doesn't like the leany part of the eco drive experience.
You can avoid that as long as you only sail downwind. Just need to find a lake where the wind comes out of the west only for as long as you want to sail east and then shifts 180 degrees for you when you're ready to come back to the dock.
I have owned 2 in my years. they are virtually indestructible as they are hand-laid fiberglass, a foot thick at the keel. bertram invented the Deep-V hull design and they are heavier boats - nothing will go through the chop on lake erie like a bertram. you can buy faster boats, you can buy boats with more dingleberries, but when all the other boats can't go out b/c its too rough, you can take your bertram.
when properly outfitted they are fish-murdering machines (thats hyperbole for anyone wanting to get upset at that description). as a point of reference, I have owned/ran them in the pacific and lake michigan. lastly, you can get a used one in the 28-33 foot range for relative peanuts.
seen a couple of these for sale locally. And you're right, they cost next to nothing. I'm just a little gun shy about buying something as old as I am.
and be comfortable with the engines. the bottom line is that assuming the engines and fiberglass are in good shape, you cannot buy a better boat than a bertram. the only other boat i'd put in this class is hatteras, but they don't make those in the size you are indictaing you'd like.
Great advice but stop with all this "you cant buy a better boat" talk. Does a Betram come with a BUILT IN BLENDER AND ICEMAKER WITHIN REACH OF THE HELM?
No it does not. To make a Margerita on a Bertram the captain has to get up and go below deck. Not so with the party-friendly Rinker. All your drinking needs are within reach. By simply pressing down on the area above the little fridge a blender will instantly appear - ready for action!
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The cockpit wet bar includes an icemaker, two cubic foot refrigerator, and a built in blender.
laughing at that one. admittedly i was only concerned with taking it out in 20' rollers (have done this a number of times) and huge chop (this too) where I/my boat and military boats were the only things floating on those days. i totally forgot the whole frozen margie things. what the hell was i thinking....
bertrams aren't slick like your express cruiser, but they'll bring you back to port in one piece, and hopefully with fish.
I want that Rinker, but I'll probably end up with something closer to the Bertram. I think this is one of those cases where it's going to be easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. And that forgiveness will be much more forthcoming if the boat I buy doesn't come with a $600+ per month payment.
and the boat will be ship-shape. my family loved ours, but we just ran out of time to use it. will hopefully buy #3 when some of them have flown from the nest.
Don't worry about the age of the boat. Someone else beat me to saying it above, but if the engine and hull are both in good shape, which can be determined with a survey which should be done regardless of whether you're buying a year-old boat or 60-year-old boat, age is nothing. Boats don't take the beating cars do, and freshwater boats can last a ridiculously long time. No salt, no potholes, and diesel engines are notorious for their ability to take a beating.
If you like a boat and the price, have the survey done and if it checks out, the phrase "age is just a number" was never more apt.
You know the old saying; if it flies, floats or f***s, rent it...
Deep V. 25 horse Merc on the back. 60 lb thrust trolling motor on the front. Trailer it. No it's not for sale.
Which trolling motor you like? I'm planning to put a 55# MinnKota w/ iPilot on 14' tin can, but I don't have any experience with them, just going by yeah that looks like exactly what I'm thinking...
Best electric kicker on the water.
In Michigan, I know Sail Time (www.sailtime.com) has a few locations. They have both power and sailboat options. We used it in the Chicago area and it was great to drive up to the boat and go sailing without worrying about paperwork, insurance, dockage, maintenance, etc. . .
. When you compare the cost and hassle factor against ownership, it may be a good option for you. There are a number of other outfits that offer fractional ownership programs. I think it is a very good alternative for someone who is planning to be on the water 15 - 30 times during the season.
for powerboats is rare in Michigan. I was only able to find one company that provides it nearby (Metro Detroit), and their prices were completely outrageous. Seriously, I could buy the boat myself for marginally more than they were asking for in rent.
Sailboats, which I'm not interested in, are another matter. Several places are offering fractional ownership, at pretty reasonable prices.
Honestly, I don't know why this isn't more popular. Most people only use their boats a few times per season.
I'm having this built out right now:
I used to live in Boston, and I had a friend who went to MIT. If you're an MIT student, you can (or at least could) use your student ID to borrower a sailboat and take it out on the Charles. It's the best student perk I've ever seen by a mile. I should have been a brilliant engineering student, in retrospect.
Plus you can stop shaving. If you get a powerboat, you not only have to shave, but you also have to start wearing cologne.
A boat is all about maintenance and repair work season after season.
You can do it yourself with some good advice and skills.
Or you can pay to have it done at the marina.
Quite a large margin there.
Also don't forget about marina gas, around $1 more than you pay at the pump...non-ethanol, plus a bunch of regs to keep from polluting the lakes.
Towing a boat that size is 3/4 to 1 ton truck range, make sure you are equipped.
Also, they last much longer if kept inside over the winter...another cost.
My 3 rules of boating: 1) no 4 cylinders (you will see the market flooded with these regrettable low torque devices). 2) no Ford V8s (Ford abandoned the marine engine market some years back and parts are getting scarce 3) no hull rot or damage (everything else can be fixed)
Some of these don't apply to your class of boat but they apply nonetheless.
The big conundrum within boating is whether you want to troll leisurely about just enjoying the day or run on plane doing watersports like skiing/boarding/tubing.
Youtube search "Ohio Vice 2" for one of my favorite videos. Those twin 565s make sweet music...
3 sailboats for primarily racing but I am now also thinking of buying a powerboat but looking into something in the 24-28 foot range a cuddycabin type boat that I can trailer. Would like to do some trips into northern Ontario. Like you I am not as knowledgeable about powerboats.
In that size range I'd put a Tiara up with the Bertram & Hatt's of the class. Excellent boats that should be judged on condition & hours vs. year of build. Good in great lakes conditions(built in Holland MI.) and nicely adorned without being "cheesy".
and I still have the same boat. It's a Sea Ray 170 LTD which was the first year for that fancy curved glass they now use on boats. It's actually 18' long. For some reason, they carried over the previous year model 180 without the curved galss to test the market, I guess.
I keep the boat up at my summer home on the Canadian side of Lake Huron. Please, no one turn me in for illegal importation of a boat. I keep the registration and license tags completely up to date to prove it's a real Illinois boat. The boat is launched from the beach with my old Cockshutt farm tractor on nice summer days to do swimming, tubing, water skiing, and general cruising up and down the coast for about 15 miles. Playing around with the old tractor is actually part of the fun. If the weather is rough, she stays on the trailer in my nice dry garage. Summer on Lake Huron means that hot days come with light south winds, so we usually get to put the boat in the water 3-4 days out of a week. When the wind turns to the west or north, there's an onshore breeze and being on land is very manageable. Hot day, get out on the water to stay cool. Yes, we've had a few exciting times with thunderstorms that have swept in, but that's what keeps life interesting. Everyone in the family has a favorite story about us frantically driving back to shore to get the boat out of the water.
So, how does one keep a 24 year old boat in running condition? Like MGrowOld advised, lots of maintenance. I prep it for storage every winter. With smaller boats, you can do more DIY maintenance. It's got a 4 cyclinder Mercruiser I/O that's easy to work on. I usually do 3 years on my own and the 4th year I take it to the local marina for a more extensive TLC session. I've had the stern drive unit serviced a few times, because you sure don't want that to fail when you need it most.
Winter storage was my biggest problem and expense until 2010 when I built a nice new garage that the boat perfectly fits in.
But lots of people like the smaller Carvers.
Personally I have a Malibu Wakesetter LSV 23.
The boat that blew up in On Golden Pond, I think. I keep it in a marina because it weighs tons. Also a 9' kayak in which I capsized on Mullett Creek last week, only to discover that my iphone does not float.
I live in San Francisco in one of the best boating areas in the US . We have 5 enviornments here: Sacramento and San Joaquim rivers, resevoirs ( lakes ), San Francisco Bay, Pacific coast ( say up to 5 miles out ) and off shore . I have seen storms on Lake Erie that are pretty rough so I would put the lakes ( except Superior ) similar to the Pacific coast .
That said I would say the difference between a boat you trailer and one you have in a marina is mobility. Out here I have a trailerable 21 foot Arima ( a west coast boat similar to a Grady White or other ocean fishing boats ) and I can go to any launch or if the weather on the Ocean or Bay is bad I can go to the river or delta on a whim. I can also go to any gas station to fill up ( we are in the usual full out gas panic and average price now approaching $4 a gallon and over $5 at the marina) With a large cabin cruiser in a marina you will be limited to that immediate area. The speed on these 25+ foot boats is usually about 12-15 mph ( anything higher and fuel costs soar ) so unless you are spending a whole weekend a time onboard your marina needs to be where you want to go and where you are going to gas up.
My buddy just bought a 1970 31foot woodie docked on the Sacramento River Delta. That boat would be GREAT out on the bay but it would take all day and a ton of gas to get it there. Marinas on the bay are a 2 year wait and about $500 a month ( he pays $275 there ) with EXPENSIVE gas. We take my boat all over the place because we can go anywhere on the trailer.
And no off season here. Always can go boating SOMEWHERE any time of year, maybe just not your first choice . If the ocean weather sucks likely can go to the river or the Bay. Halibut or Stripers vs Salmon.
I've had a 20' Four Winns bow rider since 2004. I've used her on Lake St. Clair. Take her up to the channels near Algonac... if the wind isn't out of the south it's just like lake water in the channels in terms of chop. She's a great inland lake boat, does OK on St. Clair, can trailer it where ever, whenever. Easy to store, easy to work on. If I could only have one boat, I'd pick this one because it fits more situations, isn't stuck in a boat well, can pull tubers/skiiers. I wouldn't want to go any smaller on Lake St. Clair though.
So... all that being said... the family outgrew the bow rider, and I did get a little sick of pounding the waves on St. Clair. Bought a 30' Sea Ray Sundancer in March. Can't speak to it directly because I haven't had her out yet, but it's certain she's more suited to the big lakes. And plus now my wife can stop carping about there being no bathroom. I bought used, older model... no need to spend big money. Good boats can be found in the off season.
Co-sign on the "get a survey". It will cost you $400, but it is well spent money. Also co-sign on the two engines....see sawing the wheel in the Four Winns out on a bigger lake gets old. Co-sign yet again on "maintenance the hell out of it in the off season". YouTube, Google, etc. is a major help here. If you are handy at all you can reduce the cost of ownership, learn a lot, and it is satisfying to maintain her yourself.
Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship has tons of information.... I think it is in it's 67th edition. Good resource for any boater, noob or not.
Never once have I ever regretted a single dime spent boating. That old saw about the two best days, buying then selling....whatever. Dude should have bought a camper I guess.
since it was easy to trailer and store. Also didn't have time to list and sell so first good offer took it.17 foot was a bit small as i was finding myself out on the ocean and bay more than the river or lakes. No regrets with the present one even though It was not cheap nor a great deal. Bought it from somebody I trusted which made it worth every penny. it's definately worth the money to let somebody else outfit the electronics engines etc and take the hit. If you know and trust the seller give him what he wants. Don't get a "great deal" only to find the previous owner didn't take care of it