Also, the Lidstrom remark was completely uncalled for and exposes your blatant biases in this argument.
OT - In memory of the Phoenix Coyotes.
I guess I could have just thrown myopia into the discussion; that would be my take on those who would see Lidstrom in that role (versus historically the greatest player of all time i.e., Orr). I'll dial back the sarcasm in future.
I don't remember what attendance was in Winnipeg because I was like 10 when they moved, but Coyotes attendance this year was ~12000. With the exception of the Kings who succeed simply because the city is so massive and the Islanders who are a disaster, there is an almost perfect correlation between average attendance and average temperature.
I know some of this is in jest, but it pains me to see stuff like this about the Coyotes. I work fairly high up at a major media organization in Arizona, and I have been involved with covering the Coyotes off and on.
I have a couple friends whose work depends directly on the Coyotes being here, and I know half a dozen people who work for the Coyotes and could suddenly find themselves out of a job.
On top of that, there is a decent fan base here (not a great one, but one that would pay the bills) -- the problem is that the franchise has been so terribly run for the last decade that it doesn't even matter. The big mistakes were the lease with the city of Glendale and the location -- way too far from the East Valley, which probably costs them 3,000 season-ticket holders annually -- but anyway, it's a tragedy that in a huge city with a decent hockey community, the horrific management could cost everyone here from ever seeing NHL hockey again.
That said, I do know a couple people who are close with Hulsizer and have been in touch with Glendale regularly about the Goldwater situation, and if I had to put money on it, I'd still bet the Coyotes are here next season. There's a lot still up in the air.
if they played in central Phx/Scottsdale. I live near Desert Ridge and work in the Biltmore, and trudging 45 min-1 hr each direction on a work night just isn't happening.
I'm guessing you probably know, since you're pretty connected, how did they end up in Glendale in the first place? I've heard it had something to do with Ellman/Moyes owning the land and getting Glendale to provide a pretty sweet deal/incentives. Where else were they considering? Seems like they could have built the exact same "Westgate" type of setup where Tempe Marketplace is right now. That thing would be a goldmine. Hell, put it on the res where they just put the new D-backs spring training facility.
I was at the game last night (disclosure I'm a Wings fan), and it was pretty damn depressing. Sat with a bunch of season ticket holders, and they were taking it pretty rough. Moms explaining to kids that this might be the last game they ever see, etc...
I think I was actually still in high school in Michigan when they moved out to Glendale, so I don't know all the details.
But I'm pretty sure that after the would-have-been-awesome Los Arcos project fell apart (for reasons I can't really remember even though it's still talked about), Glendale offered up the land to get the arena as part of the Westgate development.
I was at Game 3 in the press box, and I too am a lifelong, diehard Wings fan ... but it was sad to see how on edge the Coyotes PR guys were and how anxious some of my coworkers were, just knowing that their jobs might be yanked out from under them any day if this sale doesn't get completed.
I have a 4-year-old son who just started playing hockey, and he loves the Coyotes. I'd like to make him a Wings fan, but he loves what he loves -- it's not something I can control.
And I can't imagine trying to explain to him that the Coyotes aren't here anymore and he can't go to their games. He'll look like that little kid in the YouTube video when his mom explains that Michael Young won't play for the Rangers anymore.
He can always become a Winnipeg Jets fan.
The distance issue is way bigger than most give it credit for.
The majority of hockey fans are in the east valley, and Its a hassle to have to loop around the entire 101 to get to a game. From my house, its like an hour long drive.
I really hope they stay. I don't want to lose another team. And with solid management the fans will show.
Go Yotes and save the Yotes.
Agreed. I live out in Chandler and would probably go to 10-15 games a year if the Coyotes were in Scottsdale (at, say, the Los Arcos site or the spot on the reservation where the new DBacks facility sits) or even downtown. As it is, I go when the Wings play - it's a 1.5 hour slog through rush hour traffic on a weeknight to get out there.
Westgate is nice, Jobing.com is a great arena, and the Coyotes (at least now) put on a good show on the ice. But putting the arena in Glendale, when the East Valley is like 50% white-collar Midwesterners (i.e. potential hockey fans), was moronic.
but I didn't think attendance or support was the issue in Phoenix. The issue is who controls the arena, its concessions, parking etc. In other words wanting more money from the local government including a brand new arena which is opposed heavily.
As for the series, the Wings just played great minus a few dumb penalties. They were faster some of the time, hit harder and were very solid in 5-5 defense.
I think the bombshell announcement of Phoenix possibly moving really hurt thier focus, and in the Stanley Cup you are dead if you aren't 100% focussed and committed.
Either way it was a great series for the wings with a much needed rest to get ready for the Sharks(sharks) or Nashville/Anaheim.
You're partially correct, although the attendance isn't great. It's good enough to keep the team afloat, though, and it's not like the Coyotes have ever been a powerhouse.
A lot of it is the finances of the owners and the terrible lease with Glendale. For example, rather than getting money from parking, the team actually PAYS the city a surcharge for every vehicle that parks there (I have no idea why, but I assume it was part of the deal to get the land when they were so desperate for a hockey-only arena). There are some other problems, but basically, Hulsizer is trying to negotiate a deal that will allow him to work his way out of those constraints and make sure the team is financially viable.
What bizarre takes on the situation. So a Canadian team with a billionaire owner, with guaranteed 5-year sellouts in a league driven by gate attendance and their tv deal with the CBC, would be worse off and worse for the league than a team which has scarcely sold out their building in 16 years, where someone is always in the way of a sale, where the league has to pony up a crazy amount of cash just to unload the team, and to top it all off where they have to put on 'entertainments' for some sort of attendance to materialise? The situation is vastly different now for Winnipeg, incomparable with the circumstances under which they left.
Ever seen a game from Atlanta? Think that is viable by any stretch of the imagination? Your team (Wings) and mine (Habs) have to keep those losers and their brethren on life-support.
Not against southern teams at all - Tampa, Carolina, Dallas, Nashville (and of course LA) have done very well. Nashville's ownership was arguably much worse than Phoenix, and their corporate sponsorship was zero. They have a pathetic playoff record. But they are doing alright. I'd think Wnnipeg, Oklahoma City and (if they had a building) Seattle would do very well for the NHL - much better than Phoenix, Atlanta and Florida.
It is a shame real fans have to suffer...but they have before and will again.
And no, I never want to see the Nordiques surface again.
From the U-M page:
After Burton Tower lost the 1964 Pritzker Prize for Most Accurate Phallus, the university purchased a tract of land about one mile northeast of Central Campus in order to make a new attempt at winning that prestigious prize. Leaving no detail to chance, Lurie Tower was constructed with a visible urethra and two small towers at its base to simulate testicles . Lurie Tower was more successful than Burton Tower and was awarded the 1987 Most Accurate Phallus Prize.
I just read the SOM blurb, and these guys know what they're talking about:
ersity of Michigan School Of Music - The protruding bulwhark that is the music library is the most evident part of the School of Music to innocent passerby traveling on inter-campus buses. The building features padded torture cells, echo chambers, stairs, the world's most comfortable couch, and midget-sized doors placed above the toilets. In addition, the School of Music is home to the University's secret experiments in weather control. Room and corridor climates vary abruptly between tundra and rain forest, causing the official uniform to be shorts, t-shirt, and heavy winter coat. The building has received a number of citations from the EPA for its characteristic bursts of eccentric rainbows and steady emission of marijuana smoke.
I miss sneaking into the SOM at 10 at night and jamming with random people in random classrooms until 3 in the morning. Campus safety would never bother us.
i felt legitimately bad for the players and fans. i'm sure some of those guys have family and roots set up in phoenix. that being said i still found the video funny enough that i laughed out loud at "that's it! back to winnipeg!"
Moving sucks, but these guys could all get traded tomorrow. Except for the really old vets, it's tough to set up roots. I wonder whether they would rather live in a small, cold town where they are heroes, or be anonymous in Phoenix. Since most of them are from small town Canada, I'd assume the former, but obviously that's not true for Bryzgalov.
Rather the Bloc then Michel Goulet I guess...much unloved, either option! Impressed you knew.
The stress felt during the 'civil war' between us and the Nordiques was insane. Wouldn't survive it a second time around - though the 'performance' tonight might do me in.
On the franchise note, Ken Thompson, billionaire, heads the drive for a new team in Winnipeg; and the new tv deal crafted by Bettman does not allow NBC / VS to seek compensation if teams should move from troubled markets. Also, rumour is more prfitable NHL teams are pissed at having to foot the chumps' bills. Don't think Winnipeg is much of a concern for Bettman biz-wise this time around.
His ego will never survive it, methinks.
I thought you were saying that they were folding up they Coyotes and moving them somewhere else. I do remember reading they had money issues.
As a coincedence I saw a woman wearing a Hartford Whalers sweatshirt yesterday.