Does he just want the country to hate him?
OT: Manziel reportedly asked to leave Manning Camp
His draft stock is plummeting.
Not sure how high it was to begin with. He's on the small side for an NFL QB. And either way, its a long way until the 2014 draft. If he plays well this season, no one will care about what happened in the offseason. Cam Newton certainly had his off the field problems and things seemed to work out well for him.
Brett Favre - 6'2" 222 lbs
Drew Brees - 6'0" 205 lbs
Russell Wilson - 5'11" 205 lbs
Joe Montana - 6'2" 205 lbs
Johnny Manziel - 6'1" 200 lbs
While his size is at the small end for NFL QB's, size is not the end for an NFL QB.
This is the classic "Pat White was a two-star" argument, and it has exactly the opposite effect of what's intended. Instead of saying "you can make it if you're that short," it's saying "you have to be a Hall-of-Famer to make it if you're that short."
it would if it were a sample of all of the undersized quarterbacks who succeeded in the NFL. As it is it says little more than that a small handful of comparatively undersized HOF QBs were of more or less Manziel's stature--no?
Except for the presence of Russell Wilson on the list, I might agree with you.
Also, his height was in question, and his height isn't the end of his career as those quarterbacks prove. I'm not sure how pointing out a few exceptional quarterbacks with a similar build fails to make the point I intended -
He can make it and his height doesn't have to be a limiting factor.
One thing every QB you listed has in common, they went later than they should have in the draft. A conclusion one might draw is that shorter QBs don't get the benefit of the doubt on draft day. I think the poster you were responding to was making the point that Manziel better perform well or his stock could drop a long way. .
That point is very well made. Thank you for sharing.
A kid who won the Heisman Trophy as a freshman and put up video game-like numbers against SEC defenses would certainly seem to have hall of fame potential.
I don't think he was saying that the above list of very good players is every QB with less-than-ideal size who has made it in the NFL, just the very best ones. It's easy to pull out a list of above-average QBs who are between 5'11" and 6'2", if that's what you're looking for.
For instance, here is a list of over 100 QBs 6'2" or shorter who have played since 1990, in roughly descending order of their value: http://pfref.com/tiny/nQPR3
is not exactly short. NFL evaluators prefers a QB to be at least 6'1" or taller. 6' is cutting it short. There aren't many successful 6' or shorter QB in the NFL. Drew Brees and Russell Wilson are the exception to the rule. Doug Flutie is another but it took him years for him to make a significant impact in the NFL.
Johnny Football is rumored to be 5'10"-5'11" which doesn't surprise me. Johnny Football has amazing legs, but his passing needs work which is more important than size.
The Rumors & Rants story contains a few updates - (LINK).
"Since our original report we have talked to several other sources who were in attendance at the camp and they have confirmed that Manziel definitely was not sick despite what was reported to local media. They have also confirmed that he missed several meetings Saturday morning without informing anyone that he would not be able to attend. Most people at the camp assume he simply slept through them. When he did show up around noon, Archie Manning pulled him aside and a short time later he was asked to leave."
There is also a Deadspin article floating around that shows links to tweets which would reportedly place Manziel at a hookah bar last night in College Station, so apparently he is none the worse for his tribulations.
...they have a hookah bar in College Station.
Don't be, it sucks. In the vein of "pick a trendy name to draw in the desired crowd: pretentious douches that will overspend."
Doesn't seem like he's cut-out or possibly mature enough for this much fame right now. He doesn't seem to handle it well
Hasn't been a lot of positive news about Manziel since his Heisman. I know it's hard being being 18 or 19 and having your every move scrutinized. Hopefully he'll make better decisions the older he gets.
Not good. Right now he needs Sumlin or someone in his circle to show him some tough love and try to reel him in.
Feel bad for Kevin Sumlin... Has to put up with the hype surrounding him and his antics day in and day out. Sumlin really is a class act and has obviously already done a great job at A&M.
Also, I've heard that Gardner is really impressing at the camp as well.
From what I've seen also, it sounds like everyone at the camp has loved Gardner for both his ability and character.
I don't feel too sorry for him. He coached a Heisman-winning quarterback en route to an 11-2 season in his first year as a head coach. Any issues Manziel has presented with his fame are probably well worth the results thus far.
Here are two things I know about Sumlin, he made sure the University-imposed suspension from football for Manziel's bar fight was converted into "handled internally" with no time missed. He also suspended some player for their first game last year against Louisiana Tech, then when that game got rescheduled to later in the season and their first game became Florida, Sumlin said "no, he's suspended for the La Tech game, not the first game."
From what I know of him he's kind of the opposite of a class act.
This is the dark side of the entire Johnny Hypeball circus. He got too much publicity and adoration, too fast, and was expected to handle it like a junior or senior. This could ruin the rest of his career if he isn't careful.
After a player wins a Heisman, he can only go down or sideways on the "food chain." In today's atmosphere of disposable heroes, the Heisman committee should seriously think about making the award available to upperclassmen only, for the good of the recipient.
Let's not cut him too much slack here... Not all underclassmen would handle the hype this poorly, Tim Tebow and our own Denard Robinson to name a couple.
He may be immature, but he's not all that young. I know he's just a sophmore now, but he's a readshirt sophmore. Would we feel the same way if we was a junior versus a RS sophmore becuase the age is the same? Tebow handled it just fine at the same age. Granted Tebow is a special/unusual guy but by the end of your second year in college you should have figured this stuff out. He has to understand that he is going to be held to a high standard and he can't get away with anything. I don't think he's doing anything outragous he's just showing signs of immaturity. In a way I feel a little bad for the guy because I don't think he ever expected this fame and although he probably hasn't handled it well he also never asked for it. I just hope he has a good role model or someone that can give him the guidance he needs to deal with it otherwise it's going to be a long few years until he graduates.
Because without him, we would have had to endure a year (minimum) of hearing about Manti Te'o winning the Heisman. Silver lining...
Johnny Football's behavior is a bit reminiscent of Tate Forcier after his freshman year.
Some kids can handle the spotlight, some can't. Unfortunately, the rest of your life can be adversely impacted by youthful indiscretions. Hope for his sake he gets some maturity quickly. I hate to see talent go to waste.
I thought the same thing when I heard this. I hope either some of this info is false or that he can get his act together. He has a target on his back and all he seems he wants to do is make it larger. The media will eat this kid alive if he does not get his act together. Lets hope for the best for his sake.
Try walking a day in his shoes. You can't even understand how hard it is to take online classes, go to practice to play a game for a few hours a day, before heading back to your all-expenses paid life with a supermodel girlfriend.
I've been arguing with another guy for 6 months on a different message board. He's been trying to tell me Manziel is a first round draft pick when he comes out
Matt Barkley in one year went from potential #1 overall pick to #98 in the 4th round. These things cannot be reliably predicted.
This is not a criticism of your post, but isn't there a joke that if you listen to comentators and pundits that there are over two rounds worth of surefire first round picks? Calling Manziel a potential #1 overall (not that you are, and the poster above you also disagrees) is very easy, especially in the afterglow of beating 'Bama and later winning their bowl game.
I'm sure Manziel will be gone after his redshirt sophomore year, because it seems like he has a bad case of Cardale Jones disease and isn't there to "play school" (although at least Cardale has not been reported to be taking online classes). I would further guess that his potential draft position will have very little influence on his decision, but that there will be plenty of people saying he will be drafted high that he can choose to listen to.
None of this, however, explains being hung over (allegedly) during a skills camp. Protip from somebody who has never played football: sip water during the NFL Combine...
I know a couple of evaluators who said that Barkley was never a 1st rounder to begin with which is why he came back to USC last year. He recieved a 3rd round grade from the NFL advisory board so talks of him being possibly a #1 overall pick is all hype from Kiper/McShay whose evaluation skills are terrible.
He is a mobile QB which so far hasn't proven effective in the NFL. But, he's also accurate. He had a good passer rating, had a good TD/INT ratio, he had a good completion percentage. Those are the traits of a good NFL QB. The question is are his numbers a result of the offense he runs and/or his ability to escape the pocket or are they a result of his ability to read defenses and throw the football? He obviously isn't that tall which doesn't bode well for the next level, but there are examples of shorter QBs who can succeed like Russell Wilson and Drew Brees. You don't have to be 6'3" to be an NFL QB. Then again it would help if he's acutally 6'1" as listed versus if he's 2 inches shorter. But, he's gotta be taller than Wilson. So, I think the jury is still out. But, if he continues to have years like he did last year he will get a shot.
He was just more talented than all of the other camp participants and instructors. Archie Manning just needed an excuse.
"Not everybody's the perfect person in the world. I mean everyone kills people, murders people, steals from you, steals from me, whatever."
So when is the 30 for 30 coming out - should I set my DVR for sometime in 2020?
Well when you get personally booted from the Manning Camp by Archie Manning himself, you've got some issues that need sorting out. That whole family is the gold standard of modern-era NFL quarterbacks, and what do you think they'll be telling NFL scouts when one of them brings up Johnny Manziel? Character issues, too much partying, shows up to meetings late or not at all.
As far as his NFL future goes, Manziel did himself zero favors this week.
But on the flip side, Gardner sounds like he's killing it down there, so that's really all I care about.
I worked with a OSU fan downrange that happened to be at the camp watching.. this is what he said about DG.
"Yeah he was there. He throws the ball very well. Big strong kid...has me a little worried. Hope he gets bad grades and can't play...just kidding."
just because of bad grades.
"Hey, I worked hard for that 0.0. Do you have any idea how hard you have to try to literally score 0 in all of your classes?"
(grammar and spelling corrected for readers)
Hey we didn't come here to play school!
Sorry for spelling, don't care enough to google his name.
Did you tell him DG graduated in 3.5 years and is currently enrolled in graduate school?
Out at a bar at 2am, huh? I'm sure he wasn't drinking in public. Nobody bought 20 year old Johnny Football any booze that night, no sir.
Johnny needs an image consultant. Or at the very least just tell the media that you missed the meetings because you found out that your online girlfriend died. No one ever fact checks that sort of thing
And it would be the greatest save ever.
ESPiN for the SEC. Shocking.
"UPDATE: ESPN has just received a confirmed doctor's note from Manziel's family physician, Dr. Oingegedaydegegdeaybaba, that clearly states that Manziel was suffering from a mild case of food poisoning and was NOT hungover.
Enjoy SEC Media Day on Wednesday, bud.
We did too many shots last night I got a serious Manziel "new word I'm using for hangover"
if you hadn't used quotation marks as parentheses.
Bieber and Manziel - Born to be somebody. LMAO
I can't imagine what its like to be 20 years old and treated like a freaking rock star everywhere you go.
because the rare exception of 19-20 year old males on college campuses who go to keggers and party it up are "wierdos"?
Very good point. Lots of clucking and chirping from the peanut gallery but many of us were acting the fool at age 19 or 20 on a Friday or Saturday night on a campus somewhere. And we were not rock stars, where every girl on campus wanted to be with us, and every guy wanted to be us. Not to mention these star QBs are adored from Jr High to HS and told how great we are every moment of our lives.
It is very easy to judge as (mostly) middle aged men or young bucks who live in a quiet parallel universe but none of us have any idea how we'd handle this if put in his shoes. I am sure with the Heisman his local adoration is off the charts versus even the normal star QB in the south.
Not saying he is acting well or not hurting his draft stock or whatever but at age 19-20 most of us view age 25 as "long term".
...reminds me so much of Tate Forcier. Remember after 3 games he was a Heisman front runner.
Little difference in that Manziel won the Heisman.
I was thinking the same thing. Obviously Tate was not as successful, but he seems to have the same problems handling the instant fame at that age similar to Tate.
He beat Bama. No one else could. That makes him ok.
I watched that game - he shredded Bama. He has his loose-cannon moments, but I don't think he's a self-destructor. He's a competitive, clutch player. As mentioned above, he's accurate and efficient. Instictive (and very effective) scrambler. In the wake of Russell Wilson, I don't think his size will be a factor in the draft. As long as his antics don't get any more frequent, or stupid than what he's shown, I'd be very surprised if he falls out of the 1st round.